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post #1 of 49 Old 04-21-2010, 03:40 PM - Thread Starter
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We are considering a High End 8 by 8 HDMI matrix switcher for a distribution system.Since most products require HDCP handshakes, it would seem to be a potential problem. AMX, Extron and others are going to offer HDCP compliant HDMI switching products later this summer. I see Gefen has one as well.
The only time I tried a 4 by 4 matrix switcher it proved "difficult" at best to keep a picture on the designated screen.I recall the a problem with a Sony DVD player through a matrix to a Sony projector. No picture!
Anyone having any success with these type of switches. I know component works,but would prefer HDMI if it reasonably reliable
Thanks for any insight.
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post #2 of 49 Old 04-21-2010, 04:50 PM
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ONe other alternative that might work if the TVs can accept RGB is get a series of HDFurys to convert the HDMI to RGBHV, then use an RGBHV switcher.

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post #3 of 49 Old 04-21-2010, 04:53 PM
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Crestron has one as part of their digital media series. Not cheap.

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post #4 of 49 Old 04-21-2010, 11:28 PM
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http://www.wyrestorm.com/8x8_HDMI_Matrix_p/mat8t820.htm

The guy I am working for right now claims this one works well. We are installing one right now so I can give you firsthand info in a week or so.
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post #5 of 49 Old 04-22-2010, 09:06 AM
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If you can wait a few months Zektor will be releasing an HDMI switch soon. If it's as good as their other products it will be worth the wait.
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post #6 of 49 Old 04-22-2010, 09:14 AM
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I have tested/ used the RT Com switches: they are bulletproof and fast...and not cheap. You can control them by IR, RS232, and the ehternet GUI

no HDCP issues

http://www.digitalextender.com/HDMImatrix.html

I think the Gefen is based on this design: these are crosspoint switchers

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post #7 of 49 Old 04-22-2010, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

I have tested/ used the RT Com switches: they are bulletproof and fast...and not cheap. You can control them by IR, RS232, and the ehternet GUI

no HDCP issues.

+1

As you are aware, I have been using RTcom for some time, and they are flawless. I never found a consumer solution that was anywhere near as stable as these pro units.

I have never had a single instance of a missed, or incorrectly activated, command.

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post #8 of 49 Old 04-22-2010, 11:40 AM
 
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Another company that sells HDMI switches:

http://www.octavainc.com/
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post #9 of 49 Old 04-22-2010, 11:44 AM
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at the other end of the price spectrum is the Monoprice 4x4 HDMI matrix switcher (the new one that is 1.3 compliant) for $200.00

Interesting this is a good switcher and no HDCP issues: only thing is you need to power it through a UPS: otherwise it keeps defaulting to memorized settings at the least little AC power glitch. I replaced a $2500.00 Gefen 4x4 with the Monoprice and got better results

my opinion only: not affiliated with any of these companies

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post #10 of 49 Old 04-22-2010, 11:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

I have tested/ used the RT Com switches: they are bulletproof and fast...and not cheap. You can control them by IR, RS232, and the ehternet GUI

no HDCP issues

http://www.digitalextender.com/HDMImatrix.html

I think the Gefen is based on this design: these are crosspoint switchers

I've broken these, and the Gefens are junk.
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post #11 of 49 Old 04-22-2010, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles View Post

I've broken these, and the Gefens are junk.

what do you recommend?

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post #12 of 49 Old 04-22-2010, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Another company that sells HDMI switches:

http://www.octavainc.com/

Just to be clear, the OP is after a matrix rather than an HDMI switch.

Octava do also happen to make small matrix units.

I tried one and found it to be reliable but too slow. In complex systems this can cause mayhem. Gefen was a no show POS

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post #13 of 49 Old 04-22-2010, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

+1

As you are aware, I have been using RTcom for some time, and they are flawless. I never found a consumer solution that was anywhere near as stable as these pro units.

I have never had a single instance of a missed, or incorrectly activated, command.

I am sorry I forgot to mention we are planning on using 2 Cat6s for the outputs. Does the RTcom have any options for HDMI over Cat6?
Thanks
PS: I have a call into RTcom for further info
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post #14 of 49 Old 04-22-2010, 12:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

what do you recommend?

I don't have a recommendation, sadly. I've not seen a bulletproof HDMI solution yet. The Crestrons look interesting though, but no experience with those. HDMI is still a clusterf**k unfortunately, so you still end up basically needing to test the particular combination of components yourself, and switching around switchers/sources/displays until you find a combo that works.

If it were me personally, and I had the budget and the true need for HDMI matrix switching on anything beyond a very small scale, I'd just do greymarket HDMI->HD-SDI boxes and then use commercial SDI matrix switches/routers.
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post #15 of 49 Old 04-22-2010, 12:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddingle View Post

I am sorry I forgot to mention we are planning on using 2 Cat6s for the outputs. Does the RTcom have any options for HDMI over Cat6?
Thanks
PS: I have a call into RTcom for further info

You'll have more flexibility using outboard HDMI-over cat media adapters because that way you can switch those around as necessary.

There is even a Gefen that is literally a bunch of HDMI baluns put into the same case as the matrix switch. Then you simply jumper the switch outputs HDMI into the balun portion and then out cat6 from there. Hilarious.
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post #16 of 49 Old 04-22-2010, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
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I was just talking over the project with our lead tech. The AMX product we specified is not available until July. As usual that is probably optomistic!
Here is a link to a description. Timing is the key here as our client has been waiting way too long already.
Thanks for the input!
http://www.amx.com/newsletter/200909/hdmi.htm
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post #17 of 49 Old 04-22-2010, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddingle View Post

I am sorry I forgot to mention we are planning on using 2 Cat6s for the outputs. Does the RTcom have any options for HDMI over Cat6?
Thanks
PS: I have a call into RTcom for further info

NeoPro is coming out with an HDMI matrix switch for CAT6: they make good stuff too

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post #18 of 49 Old 04-23-2010, 05:42 AM
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Try this http://www.octavainc.com/.
I have one of their matrix switches and had no problems.
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post #19 of 49 Old 04-23-2010, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddingle View Post

Timing is the key here as our client has been waiting way too long already.

The Crestron digital media solution is shipping now and works flawlessly. Distribution options include Cat 6 and fiber. It also supports a slew of features and options not available with any other solution.
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post #20 of 49 Old 05-05-2010, 02:39 AM
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we are working on a 16 x 16 with modular i/o cards, it will have additional local output at each input and output cards will have HDMI and CAT outputs available at the same time (so more like a 16 x 16 x 2) Ir return and remote control through IR to control the matrix.
will not been available before end of year.

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post #21 of 49 Old 05-06-2010, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Haddad View Post

The Crestron digital media solution is shipping now and works flawlessly. Distribution options include Cat 6 and fiber. It also supports a slew of features and options not available with any other solution.

The Crestron Digital Media system is the one system that we have used that has had no HDMI issues. This system addresses each individual HDMI device and locks onto the HDCP key. The locked handshake will allow for all sorts of HDMI sources to work with multiple type of HDMI displays without having to do the handshake over and over again. Benefits are reliability and very fast source switching.

The system is a card cage system with a lot of optional input and output boards so you can add more sources that you may have originally intentioned. Say you have a security camera (composite), a Nintendo Wii (component), and a computer (VGA)... all of these sources can be routed through the Digital Media and output through the single HDMI cable.
Depending upon the source distance and the resolutions that you want, you can run an HDMI cable, a proprietary Crestron cable, or a fiber optic cable with breakout boxes.

Pretty cool stuff.
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post #22 of 49 Old 05-21-2010, 03:03 AM
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I have been doing a lot of research on this and I think the key is finding a matrix that actually completes the hand-shake. Key-digital makes a modular 4x4 which locally stores the edid codes and completes the hand shake its self rather than just passing it through. Check out this youtube video.... I am not affiliated just have had good luck with their baluns and other hdmi products and I cannot fault the logic used in the design......

http://www.youtube.com/user/keydigit.../2/W-eIhg44liI

Check out my whole house build HERE
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post #23 of 49 Old 05-21-2010, 03:21 AM
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^^^

looks like a nice switcher: MSRP $4500.00

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post #24 of 49 Old 06-09-2010, 11:35 PM
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I posted details, along with some pics, of my Crestron Fiber based DM system install HERE.

Take a look and if you have any questions I will be more than happy to answer.
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post #25 of 49 Old 06-10-2010, 09:17 AM
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Wow, I used to know a stripper called GoGo Delicious.

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post #26 of 49 Old 06-10-2010, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
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Take a look and if you have any questions I will be more than happy to answer.

CM: I think he meant he/she would be happy to answer technical questions

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post #27 of 49 Old 06-11-2010, 04:53 PM
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Crestron matrixes are now rated at 8 gigabytes troughput speed.
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post #28 of 49 Old 06-15-2010, 05:09 AM
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Gefen has preannounced a new, less expensive line of FST [Fast Switching Technology] switchers and Matrixes designed to better handle HDCP handshaking: that they claim have fast switching:they describe it as 'nearly no delay' in switching sources: they are 1.3 compliant

They say FST is being implemented on all current and new products using HDMI

http://www.gefen.com/gefentoolbox/

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post #29 of 49 Old 06-15-2010, 05:30 AM
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...one drawback to that, Mark. Burned by Gefen twice ... that's enough.

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post #30 of 49 Old 06-15-2010, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

...one drawback to that, Mark. Burned by Gefen twice ... that's enough.

agreed: I have had better luck with a $200.00 Monoprice 4x4 matrix switch than my $2500.00 Gefen 4x4

still it looks like they are making progress: Gefen was among the first to jump into HDMI switching and I think many companies got burned in the early HDMI days: it was a real mess

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