Theta Upgrade IS HDMI 1.4!!!! - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 576 Old 07-01-2010, 06:13 PM
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HDMI is DEAD for good.

Long live to HDBaseT !

http://www.audioholics.com/news/indu...i-dead-hdbaset

http://hdbaset.org/files/HDBaseT%20A...reus_FINAL.PDF

http://hdbaset.org/files/HDBaseT_Com...ble_Nereus.pdf

http://www.valens-semi.com/media/1526/msnbc.pdf

[]s,
Fernando
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post #182 of 576 Old 07-01-2010, 06:34 PM
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Yea - by the end of 4th Qtr 2010, with still no HDMI 1.3 or 1.4 CB3,
the announcement will be made at AVS first and probably last that
Theta is using HDBaseT

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:

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post #183 of 576 Old 07-01-2010, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

Yea - by the end of 4th Qtr 2010, with still no HDMI 1.3 or 1.4 CB3,
the announcement will be made at AVS first and probably last that
Theta is using HDBaseT

They'll probably wait for the bugs to be ironed out and use HDBaseT version 'b'. Why rush into it?

TURN IT UP!
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post #184 of 576 Old 07-01-2010, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by bigbrother52 View Post

They'll probably wait for the bugs to be ironed out and use HDBaseT version 'b'. Why rush into it?

We will have an infinitely upgradeable SSP as Theta will always be waiting to do the latest and best technology!

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post #185 of 576 Old 07-02-2010, 06:22 AM
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Well, regardless of whether this becomes a new standard or not ('I read it on the internet so it must be true'), I know I'll be living with HDMI for a long while still. Not sure I will, for example, feel the need for a better scaler than the Radiance XE for quite some years.

It is also interesting that Meridian have been using RJ45/Cat6 cables for hirez audio transmission for some time now. I'm certainly happy to have invested long term with (although I did grumble a bit initially about the cost of the 861 upgrade) a company that really does seem to know what they are doing. Unfortunately I have also sunk significant cash into products/companies that did not!

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post #186 of 576 Old 07-02-2010, 07:00 AM
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Actually, Theta has become more ambitious in terms of its planned upgrade. Realizing that HDMI 1.3 will soon give way to 1.4, and on, and on, Theta has sent a memo to its dealers:

Quote:


The Ultimate Upgrade

As proof once and for all of the genius of the card-cage construction of the Casablanca, and to prove that we are more forward looking than any of our merely mortal competition, Theta announces its ongoing project, known as The Ultimate Upgrade.

The Ultimate Upgrade is based on spiritual soundwaves developed by noted Gypsy Seance Masters. Dispensing with mere D to A conversions, we at Theta are pondering M to I conversions, i.e., Mortal to Immortal.

What this means is that you'll be able to be buried with your CBIII, and continue to groove on the wonderful tunes being converted from the Mortal domain, to the Great Beyond.

The software is 95% ready. We're now waiting for all you Theta Luvers to die so that we can begin beta testing.

Thanks,

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post #187 of 576 Old 07-02-2010, 09:49 AM
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My wife says when I watch in my HT, I lie back on my chair like I am already dead. Should I offer my self as a beta tester? This would improve feed back because out of my theater I am still alive.

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post #188 of 576 Old 07-02-2010, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by audiman View Post

Anthem D2 is a fine product but it doesnt belong in this forum.

That should answer your question.

Is that because of sound quality or price (less than 20k)? The Anthem products get good reviews so I'm just curious if their sound quality does not stand up to the Lexicon, Classe, Theta, Cary, Meridian products that get the bulk of the attention around here.

MY CBIII is dying and I'm not sure what I can afford so if I could find something decent used, that would make me happy. Audiogon as some Anthem products and some Classe SSP-600s (which is not HDMI) right now.

Sorry in advance for being dense about your comment. The Anthem board eleswhere at AVS is mostly fanboys talking about picyune details for owners, and so I didn't find it helpful.
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post #189 of 576 Old 07-02-2010, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lex22 View Post

Is that because of sound quality or price (less than 20k)? The Anthem products get good reviews so I'm just curious if their sound quality does not stand up to the Lexicon, Classe, Theta, Cary, Meridian products that get the bulk of the attention around here.

MY CBIII is dying and I'm not sure what I can afford so if I could find something decent used, that would make me happy. Audiogon as some Anthem products and some Classe SSP-600s (which is not HDMI) right now.

Sorry in advance for being dense about your comment. The Anthem board eleswhere at AVS is mostly fanboys talking about picyune details for owners, and so I didn't find it helpful.

I demo'd one at my local dealer. Not a good experience. A bit harsh and lifeless... and if the Anthem thread doesn't scare you away, then nothing well. Too many issues, too many buttons, too many (needless) features and, for me, a video processor of such sophistication should not be integrated into an SSP. 10 lbs of sh** in a 5 lb bag IMO.


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post #190 of 576 Old 07-02-2010, 11:55 AM
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Jeff. Why are you holding back? Tell us how you really feel about the Anthem.

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post #191 of 576 Old 07-02-2010, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Jeff. Why are you holding back? Tell us how you really feel about the Anthem.

That was the sugar-coated version of my feelings towards the Anthem.


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There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #192 of 576 Old 07-02-2010, 04:27 PM
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I am a long term Type I diabetic. I just would like you to omit the sugar for the sake of my health. Thanks.

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post #193 of 576 Old 07-02-2010, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

That was the sugar-coated version of my feelings towards the Anthem.

Your feelings about Anthem make you charitable to Theta. WOW!

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:

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post #194 of 576 Old 07-02-2010, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I demo'd one at my local dealer. Not a good experience. A bit harsh and lifeless... and if the Anthem thread doesn't scare you away, then nothing well. Too many issues, too many buttons, too many (needless) features and, for me, a video processor of such sophistication should not be integrated into an SSP. 10 lbs of sh** in a 5 lb bag IMO.

Not many YES Men on the 20K Forum.
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post #195 of 576 Old 07-03-2010, 01:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan View Post

Back when I bought it, I chose it over all other existing solutions for HDMI back then (Halcro, Lexicon, Primare, Classé and the usual Denon, Onkyo, whatever stuff). I'm not sure why people always mention the Denon A1. In my opinion (I'm not alone on this) the A1 is one of the worst sounding pieces of crap I've ever heard. But to each their own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan View Post

The problem with the A1 is, the old 861v4 with lossy audio still sounds better than the A1 with lossless. So it would have been a major downgrade for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Satullo View Post

Of course, the people who think the Denon A1-HDCI is a superb processor are also not alone. To wit:
And, of course, there is word of the AVS brethren at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1006957.
So, while you're certainly entitled to your observations, I'd dare say you're quite a bit more alone than those who render a completely opposite conclusion than yours.

People rarely blow $5k on a piece of audio kit and rubbish it afterwards. In my experience, it makes it difficult to sell afterwards.

However its reassuring to know that some people can still make buying decisions based on listening, rather than on specs, measurements and reviews.

Unfortunately most reviewers seem to live in fear of talking about the emporer's clothes. They just assume that because its expensive and measures well, it must sound good too. If we have to pay for these reviews, then we deserve better.

Nick
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post #196 of 576 Old 07-03-2010, 07:12 AM
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Unfortunately, you don`t deserve anything. The market sets the quality parameters. You can vote by not buying the review but if enough others buy it, it doesn`t have to be any better. But like you I wish they were better.

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post #197 of 576 Old 07-06-2010, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Germany or Spain/ Netherlands vs Germany or Spain? watching the whole tourney these teams look they are at a whole different level. Precision and steady suoeriority. Like a clinic by pros vs ams.


This is an exquisitely fitting post for a thread that begins "Theta Upgrade IS . . ."

Well, it's time to talk about a thousand different things like other brand's equipment, manufacturer/dealer protocol, world cup soccer . . .

Anything except the crucial issues: When? How much?

Thanks,

Nick
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post #198 of 576 Old 07-08-2010, 08:51 AM
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It's funny - I think of these Theta HDMI upgrade threads as a good chance to discuss other subjects. We can only talk and speculate so much about the upgrade, so it keeps things entertaining to discuss other things. In fact, I think these threads are the only threads where it is perfectly acceptable to derail the thread. The only exception, of course, is we do not allow these threads to be derailed by "he who shall not be named" (check Steve's signature)

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post #199 of 576 Old 07-08-2010, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by thezaks View Post

It's funny - I think of these Theta HDMI upgrade threads as a good chance to discuss other subjects. We can only talk and speculate so much about the upgrade, so it keeps things entertaining to discuss other things. In fact, I think these threads are the only threads where it is perfectly acceptable to derail the thread. The only exception, of course, is we do not allow these threads to be derailed by "he who shall not be named" (check Steve's signature)

Dave

Who?

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:

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post #200 of 576 Old 07-08-2010, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

Who?

Exactly!

Dave

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post #201 of 576 Old 07-10-2010, 04:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiophilesavant View Post

If I understand you correctly, you think the DACs in the Marantz UD9004 sound better than the Theta Extreme DACs. Steve Bruzonsky thinks the PS Audio PerfectWave DAC sounds better than the Theta Extreme DACs. Perhaps Theta's Extreme DACs are no longer king of the hill, regardless of parts cost, and Theta owners would do well to try some of the other top SSPs in their systems before plunking down 5K for the Theta HDMI upgrade.

They never were king of the hill compared to external high quality dacs like Theta's own Gen VIII. They were the best inside a surround processor. That could still be true and looking at the build quality of the competition with the exception of the Krell piece, they likely still are. The high-end competition for a CBIII with Xtreme dacs is going to retail north of 20k because of the price of parts. Considering that the design work on the Casablanca has been recouped, I would expect a newer design of similar quality to actually cost more as the initial design cost, at least a million dollars these days,would have to be recouped. Those original Superior dacs suck. Spending 5k for the upgrade even if it were possible to use the original Superior dacs might not be a wise choice. The original Superior dac is just a 20bit dac and can not even produce 24/48 sound without downrez to 20/48.

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post #202 of 576 Old 07-10-2010, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by edorr View Post




This is not to say HDMI is doomed even if Theta ships it because some folks prefer the convenience of HDMI, don't like SS with lots of cables. Most importantly, there may be few if any players other than the ud9004 around that follow this logic. So now you have to compare spending 4K (streetprice) on the HDMI upgrade, with the streetprice of a UD9004 + 6 cables plus a six shooter. However, in terms of abolute achievable SQ, my expectation is analog will prevail (an argument Bulldogger has been making for some time). A few industry luminaries I spoke to (Charles Hanson, Dan Wright) are of the same opinion.

Any perspectives on this?

Ed, a couple of years back, I spoke with every company that made both a multi-channel pre-amp and a multil-channel player with analog outs and that also made surround processors. I asked the question as to whether their surround processors could compete with the analog 6 channel pre-amps and stand alone players combinations they made. ALL said the analog route would be superior. However, at least two have discontinued sales of the Six channel pre-amps, Bel Canto and Mcintosh. The then distributor for EMM Labs told me the Switchman3 was the worst selling product the company made. So while they sound better, demand is very poor.

The home theater market is mostly feature driven. It is also about simplicity. One HDMI cable vs 8 even if that means a very significant reduction in sound quality. This is why pre-pros continue to sale even though the sound quality is inferior. If you were willing to make the compromise and want to make as little of a compromise as possible, Theta's Casablanca III as well as the Meridian 861 offered that. So, IMO there is zero chance that the CBIII with HDMI will sound better. I would be interested in comparing the Krell piece to the Six Shooter/Marantz combo. My money would be on the Six Shooter because of my past experience. Your own experience was that room correction is an aid but not the trump card as it is touted as being. However I feel that not adding parametric EQ is a major mistake. The Casablanca already has a shelf EQ which rolls off the top end a couple db. That should have been expanded to full parametric. This is too big of a feature to have been omitted. Lack of what is considered a key feature is what is going to severely limited the success of the upgrade. It is going to limit the upgrade to only existing owners when it could have regain some of the market. The Bland's agenda is sparked by Theta's scorning of the his offer for marketing assistance. And yes I am making a woman scorned comparison! It does look like Theta could have used someone's help as they have always been in denial about the market in which they are competing.

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post #203 of 576 Old 07-10-2010, 10:36 AM
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a bit of thread cleanup
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post #204 of 576 Old 07-15-2010, 07:28 PM
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Theta announcement RE Cedia:
"This is going to be a very exciting Expo for us as we will debut the latest in HDMI 1.4 technology incorporated into our Theta Digital Casablanca III HD Processor/ Controller along with its matching Compli-3D transport. The active display will also include a 5.1 surround configuration driven by the Dreadnaught III multi-channel power amplifier and a complementary 55 3D display device."
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post #205 of 576 Old 07-15-2010, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyree91 View Post

Theta announcement RE Cedia:
"This is going to be a very exciting Expo for us as we will debut the latest in HDMI 1.4 technology incorporated into our Theta Digital Casablanca III HD Processor/ Controller along with its matching Compli-3D transport. The active display will also include a 5.1 surround configuration driven by the Dreadnaught III multi-channel power amplifier and a complementary 55 3D display device."

I assume this means that Oppo has readied a 3D BD Player as well.
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post #206 of 576 Old 07-15-2010, 08:24 PM
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"I spoke with every company that made both a multi-channel pre-amp and a multil-channel player with analog outs and that also made surround processors. I asked the question as to whether their surround processors could compete with the analog 6 channel pre-amps and stand alone players combinations they made. ALL said the analog route would be superior."

How many of those you talked to had a method of taking in 6 channels of LPCM over HDMI?

Shawn
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post #207 of 576 Old 07-15-2010, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyree91 View Post

Theta announcement RE Cedia:
"This is going to be a very exciting Expo for us as we will debut the latest in HDMI 1.4 technology incorporated into our Theta Digital “Casablanca III HD” Processor/ Controller along with its matching “Compli-3D” transport. The active display will also include a 5.1 surround configuration driven by the “Dreadnaught III” multi-channel power amplifier and a complementary 55” 3D display device."

If its a "Compli-3D" transport my bet is that are simply modding like a 3D Pioneer or Panasonic blu ray. Oppo doesn't even have a 3D blu ray player in beta testing yet!

If this ain't a late April Fool's joke it will be interesting!

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post #208 of 576 Old 07-15-2010, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyree91 View Post

Theta announcement RE Cedia:
"This is going to be a very exciting Expo for us as we will debut the latest in HDMI 1.4 technology incorporated into our Theta Digital Casablanca III HD Processor/ Controller along with its matching Compli-3D transport. The active display will also include a 5.1 surround configuration driven by the Dreadnaught III multi-channel power amplifier and a complementary 55 3D display device."

This would be stunning. No way the Compli BR they just released can be magically turned into a 3D capable player (unless they have been working with Oppo for months in silence on this). So this alledged 3D player would have to be something new and essentially make their current Compli BR obsolete overnigh (having sold a grand total of ???). In one brilliant move they would piss off everyone they just bought a 3K Compli BR, and take a financial hit by having to write off their unrecovered R&D investment in the Compli BR player. Note that the Theta website has been updated to fall shipping for HDMI, but no mention of 1.4 - you wonder why they would not bother to mention "1.4" while they were updating the site. On the positive side, with these announcement they are definitely keeping the Theta mystique alive, and the threads on this forum going.
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post #209 of 576 Old 07-15-2010, 11:46 PM
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Ed, Steve, it wasn't until my 2nd reading I even noticed the 3D Compli Blu. I would have to think Oppo must be up to something also, but being an Oppo dealer as well, I still don't know. Norm
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post #210 of 576 Old 07-16-2010, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfogg View Post


How many of those you talked to had a method of taking in 6 channels of LPCM over HDMI?

Shawn

I'll answer that... '0'.

But if one (1) of those company's ever develops an HDMI solution, the answer will then switch to '1'... and the 'superior' analog solution they offer will find it's rightful place in the trash can.

If you don't have an HDMI solution, then just dog it... right??


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There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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Closed Thread Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+)

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