Media Servers worthy of high end - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+) > Media Servers worthy of high end
GetGray's Avatar GetGray 03:08 PM 08-31-2012
See I knew that. biggrin.gif

babgvant's Avatar babgvant 03:37 PM 08-31-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottJ View Post

There were only a handful of players that would ever play DVD as 24p.

Modern low-end+ Sony players do it too.
LJG's Avatar LJG 04:10 PM 08-31-2012
So to Review and make sure I understand 100%:

Dune Player can play Bluray 1080P23.976 Native content from ISO.
Dune Player can Play Bluray 1080I60(rounded off) Native content from ISO

Get Grey is working with a company to allow Dune player to interface with My Moviesand use My Movies as Jukebox, and Dune Player as Slave Player.

Only thing Dune can't do is source direct but manually user can set Dune to output Native content from disc
babgvant's Avatar babgvant 04:15 PM 08-31-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

Dune Player can play Bluray 1080P23.976 Native content from ISO.

Yes
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

Dune Player can Play Bluray 1080I60(rounded off) Native content from ISO

Yes, but you have to manually flip to this setting from 1080p60 just like for any other non-1080p source.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

Only thing Dune can't do is source direct but manually user can set Dune to output Native content from disc

Yep, but when you do this the 1080p option disappears from the "Mode" list so you need to dig into the setup menus to get it back.
GetGray's Avatar GetGray 04:45 PM 08-31-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

Get Grey is working with a company to allow Dune player to interface with My Moviesand use My Movies as Jukebox, and Dune Player as Slave Player.
To be clear, I don' t know if the company can/will use MyMovies Metadata. Their software including the "jukebox" is their own. Slave player part is correct.
ceenhad's Avatar ceenhad 05:33 PM 08-31-2012
Uk company Vivadi have been doing My Movies server Dune player systems for ages now. Very nice system
GetGray's Avatar GetGray 07:13 PM 08-31-2012
Thanks Neil, WIll check it out. Coming to CEDIA this year?

- Looked, not the same thing as the other company is developing, as far as I can tell...
LJG's Avatar LJG 08:05 AM 09-03-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

Thanks Neil, WIll check it out. Coming to CEDIA this year?
- Looked, not the same thing as the other company is developing, as far as I can tell...

Scott:

What are the primary difference from what the other comapny is developing? I can't tell from web site but Vivadi seems to indicate they improved the Jukebox of the Dune player
GetGray's Avatar GetGray 08:31 AM 09-03-2012
I couldn't tell much form their website, but dind't have time to study it. The other company essentially off-loads the jukebox entirely. There is no Dune Jukebox. The dune becomes a slave player directed to play via IP commands once any media navigation/selection is done in the off-board software. But they are just now starting it's development so too early to say how well it will work. I like the idea of it in any case. It's teh kind of thing that can be applied to any player capable of accepting the play commands. For example even an Oppo if it could play across the network. Now if someone could hack Oppos firmware. smile.gif
babgvant's Avatar babgvant 12:04 PM 09-03-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

Now if someone could hack Oppos firmware. smile.gif

You wouldn't need to if it supports CEC.

Edit:

On second thought, CEC probably isn't rich enough to do targeted playback.
GetGray's Avatar GetGray 01:03 PM 09-03-2012
You're always taxing my acryonym vocabulary smile.gif CEC?
babgvant's Avatar babgvant 01:16 PM 09-03-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

You're always taxing my acryonym vocabulary smile.gif CEC?

Sorry smile.gifHDMI CEC (Consumer Electronics Control).
GetGray's Avatar GetGray 03:57 PM 09-03-2012
Thanks. I don't think control is the issue at this point. It's getting a device that will do the payback without issue, including typical formats for BRD and DVD (namely iso, or folder structure with menu support), over the network.
babgvant's Avatar babgvant 04:02 PM 09-03-2012
I was thinking that you could use something like Pulse-Eight's CEC adapter to automate selection and playback on the device, but the problem is that while you could do that it would be difficult to ensure that everything worked properly w/o targeted playback (tell the device to play a specific file via CEC).
LJG's Avatar LJG 12:35 PM 09-04-2012
I am picking up a Dune HD today to add to my Vidabox for better video performance..
mani's Avatar mani 10:16 PM 09-04-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

Apologies, it's been a while since I used the Dune, forget the terminology. I mean if you added a movies to your database, you had to manually update teh index on the flash drive at the Dune. Thats what I meant. That's new. Unless you have the index on teh server, which I didn't becasue it was sloow. It has it's attractiveness. I always keep in on the radar at least a little. What got my attention (again) was Vidabox using it.
Missed a bunch of replies somehow...
Lon: Last time I asked K about source direct they were clueless. Best technical guy there said he "didn't think so". As their Anamorphic mode is them scaling, I am confident they aren't about video source direct as much as the interface. I'll get beat up for that remark.
re K, I don't care at all about it's spiffy animations. But I do want cover atr with meta data browsing and a screen full of enough covers to make it easy to browse.
As far as metadata, I have kids so rating is important, and for me Watched, or not is important. K also does not (did not) have watched flags. Spoke to them at length about that last year.

Hi Scott

I have posted a screenshot of my system showing various video outputs you can setup separately for each format i.e DVD, Blu Ray etc : It does have two options for video pass through , and I can see the video format change on sim2 display info- so I do believe it does source direct, That being said , the video quality of K is top notch . I was skeptical that it may not equal Oppo /DVDO VP50 Pro (which I later replaced by IScan Duo,and eventually I removed DVDO from the chain as the processing by Lumis HOST seemed equally good or better). With K , I haven't noticed any difference in Blu Ray picture or audio quality quality and if anything regular DVD's seem better than when played via Oppo . I was also using Oppo 980 with 480i source direct fed via HDMi to Algolith mosquito and then to Video processor to play DVD's. And I enjoy DVD playback from Kscape much more and have taken out other equipment from the chain. So now K is directly connected to HOST . As you can see from my previous posts I have tried various HTPC's I have built over the years, Popcor hour, Previous versions of Dune. When I wanted to do critical viewing , I always preferred playing Blu Ray directly from Oppo. Now finally I have changed my home page on irule from Oppo to K as I honestly cant tell the difference in picture and I have tried enough for last 3 months with various well authored Blu rays that I am very familiar with. I haven't tried most recent pop corn hour or Dune , so I can't comment on those.
Moreover K has lot of installation flexibilty esp. to incorporate in an automation system. I have attached the link to their control/automation integration guide. You can integrate it extensively in common aoutmation systems e.g. you can create "send event" commands where K detects what part of movie you are at and it triggers events in your automation i.e it will send a command when it detects Intermission to turn lights back on and turn them off when intermission is over, and when it detects credits at the end , the lights start coming back up and drapes can go up or down. You can callibrate masking ssystem if you have one and it will automatically calculate the amount of masking to be done depending on video being played and move the masks exactly where they need to be etc etc.Lot of other things you can do. It has built in drivers for crestron, control4 etc.

http://www.kaleidescape.com/files/documentation/Kaleidescape-System-Control-Protocol-Reference-Manual.pdf

I am not contesting that you can't achieve excellent picture quality with other streamers /HTPC's etc , but I am just stating my experience that after using K I haven't felt any need to tinker with setup or look any further or to research what else is out there . When I was using HTPC/ streamers I was spending more time upgrading /tweaking them than enjoying them. Now I haven't even touched the equipment in last few months ...and have enjoyed the theater much more. It obviously comes at a big premium . Whether it is worth it...I don't know. I certainly wish it was cheaper ..but it is what it is...!

Mani
PS : I am enjoying the ISCOIII/cineslide that I bought from you and very much appreciate your help and expertise in doing all the calculations/drawings and making a template for me . It made the installation a breeze and error free and perfect...smile.gif
GetGray's Avatar GetGray 06:46 AM 09-05-2012
Thanks Mani, and you are welcome, I am proud to have the device in a high end theater like yours.

It would be easy to go off on a K tanget which I don't want to do, but I do appreciate the good info on K. On another tangent for DVD I prefer the proprietary no-ring scaling provided by Lumagen over anything else I've seen, but DVD is much less of an issue these days. Just a handful of old movies not released on BR and some kids stuff I dont' want to rebuy. I am curious though, when DVD is set to passthrough your VP saw 480i? It didn't even deinterlace?

Cost aside, the show stopper for me and the K is the "vault". I have a lot of things that won't fit the vault. If K opened up the system to allow unencrypted files or structures to be loaded, by the user, I don't think I could resist and woudl buy one tomorrow at CEDIA for my personal theater/demo room.

Not a show stopper, but a big ding for me missing on K last time I discussed with them, was a "watched" flag so you could filter out things you had watched. I've got about 130 movies on my server that I haven't seen yet, or are very old I haven't seen in years queued up. Many of these were loaded a long time ago when I had the opportunity to borrow from friends and family so their "recently loaded" flag does not fit. They explained a potential workaround but it was very high maintenance.
LJG's Avatar LJG 07:05 AM 09-05-2012
The Dune HD was setup last night, playback is perfect 1080P23.976 for Bluray Film, and 1080I59.94 for video based bluray. Switching between Modes is very simple and can be done by selecting Mode and Number. In addition auto frame rate set for 24/60 and Mode set to 1080I59.94 appeared to autoselect 1080P23.976 for film ISO, and 1080I59.94 for Video. This is working same as Source Direct for my needs. Now if the Jukebox could be improved it would be Home Run.

I have relegated Vidabox Client to server as the Video Output does not come close to the Dune. I may exchange my Rackclient for a Server from Vidabox.
GetGray's Avatar GetGray 08:13 AM 09-05-2012
Interesting. I'm sure Vidabox will have the DUne Setup at their booth. I'll go check it out and see if they did anything "extra". You still going to CEDIA Lon?

What are you using for your BR video test? And re easy switching, how are you determining what the source is so you know what to switch to?
LJG's Avatar LJG 08:15 AM 09-05-2012
Scott:

It's a straight Dune HD out of Box, not modified by Vidabox. I had to cancel Cedia this year
b curry's Avatar b curry 08:55 AM 09-05-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

Scott:
It's a straight Dune HD out of Box, not modified by Vidabox. I had to cancel Cedia this year

What version of firmware is your Dune on?


mani's Avatar mani 09:18 AM 09-05-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

Thanks Mani, and you are welcome, I am proud to have the device in a high end theater like yours.
It would be easy to go off on a K tanget which I don't want to do, but I do appreciate the good info on K. On another tangent for DVD I prefer the proprietary no-ring scaling provided by Lumagen over anything else I've seen, but DVD is much less of an issue these days. Just a handful of old movies not released on BR and some kids stuff I dont' want to rebuy. I am curious though, when DVD is set to passthrough your VP saw 480i? It didn't even deinterlace?
Cost aside, the show stopper for me and the K is the "vault". I have a lot of things that won't fit the vault. If K opened up the system to allow unencrypted files or structures to be loaded, by the user, I don't think I could resist and woudl buy one tomorrow at CEDIA for my personal theater/demo room.
Not a show stopper, but a big ding for me missing on K last time I discussed with them, was a "watched" flag so you could filter out things you had watched. I've got about 130 movies on my server that I haven't seen yet, or are very old I haven't seen in years queued up. Many of these were loaded a long time ago when I had the opportunity to borrow from friends and family so their "recently loaded" flag does not fit. They explained a potential workaround but it was very high maintenance.

Hi Scott

Yes it was 480i from Oppo 980h...here is attached image from Oppo manual showing video outputs you can select . I havent used it in few months now , but from what I recall , the way I had set it up was that all the processing and de interlacing was done by the video processor.


I agree that there are some limitations with K which I was not a fan of either , most importantly not able to transfer files from my hard drives to K server directly. All the media has to be imported from physical discs. Now CD's and DVD's dont need to be in the vault once you have ripped them. I have loaded my home videos and some DVD's and couple of Blu Rays written my PC without any problem. You can email me if you are interested as I don't want to turn this thread into Kscape technical discussion. Also they are coming up with download service where you will be able to download bit perfect blu rays directly onto your server , so you wont need vault for those movies. The details have not been released yet. I believe they are going to make some announcements in CEDIA. But from what I understand it is supposed to go live in next few months.
Regarding watched flag , there is a work around. There is a " watch soon " collection tab . You can go to movie list view on your PC and select those 130 discs at once and add them to watch soon list. As you keep watching them , they will be removed from that list. As you import new movies , they are automatically added to "new:" list and as you watch them , they are removed from that list .The duration they stay in new list can be configured by you.

Mani
LJG's Avatar LJG 09:42 AM 09-05-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by b curry View Post

What version of firmware is your Dune on?

120815_2150 is firmware, anyone have any idea how to shut off blue display on Dune?
b curry's Avatar b curry 10:23 AM 09-05-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post


120815_2150 is firmware, anyone have any idea how to shut off blue display on Dune?

As far as I know, you can't.


GetGray's Avatar GetGray 10:34 AM 09-05-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

120815_2150 is firmware, anyone have any idea how to shut off blue display on Dune?

Masking tape. cool.gif

Or for a more elegant solution, stick a piece of blue calibration filter to it.

Ideally, put it behind a rack blank plate and have it out of sight. But I don't think it's that stable yet.
GetGray's Avatar GetGray 10:36 AM 09-05-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by mani View Post

Hi Scott
Yes it was 480i from Oppo 980h

Mani, I meant 480i from the K. I know the Oppo can do it.

EDIT: Cause my typoing stinks.
mani's Avatar mani 11:51 AM 09-05-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

Main, I meant 480i from the K. I know the Oppo can do it.

Hi Scott

If i select pass through in K for DVD's, I get 480i30 on Sim2 info display . Although when i tried it today I got green lines only on the screen with audio. I believe I had turned off deinterlacing on Sim2. I can look into the menu this weekend and let you know. But yes K is passing as source direct as possible. And you can select different options for different formats . I have been using passthrough for Blu Rays and 1080p for DVD's as I have liked those the best in my setup.

Mani
GetGray's Avatar GetGray 12:11 PM 09-05-2012
Mani: Thanks but definitely don't go to any trouble at all. I was just curious. The showstopper for me is the inability to play ripped content off my network or my self managed raid arrays. I might be able to suck it up and overpay someone for a hard drive array (would be tough given the typical markup there), but unless they change K so I can play any decrypted content that I choose to load on it, whether I decrypted it or not, the PC based solutions are still more attractive to me.
mani's Avatar mani 12:20 PM 09-05-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

Mani: Thanks but definitely don't go to any trouble at all. I was just curious. The showstopper for me is the inability to play ripped content off my network or my self managed raid arrays. I might be able to suck it up and overpay someone for a hard drive array (would be tough given the typical markup there), but unless they change K so I can play any decrypted content that I choose to load on it, whether I decrypted it or not, the PC based solutions are still more attractive to me.
You can burn that content on blu ray or DVD and load it on K , i think it should work.
GetGray's Avatar GetGray 12:27 PM 09-05-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by mani View Post

You can burn that content on blu ray or DVD and load it on K , i think it should work.
If I'm going to jump through hoops to make it work, I might as well use the PC. Drop and rip, or simply copy from network and I'm done, storage wise. No vault.
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