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Old 09-19-2012, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I should point out to others watching here that it's not the the Dune wont' play DVD's. It plays them without complaint. It just handles at least the up-scaling. Not sure what it's doing on deinterlacing, it may be upscale 480i to 1080i only. I'm whining because I can't feed my preferred DVD signal (unmunged 480i) to a external video processor with particularly excellent up-scaling, deinterlacing, etc.
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

I should point out to others watching here that it's not the the Dune wont' play DVD's. It plays them without complaint. It just handles at least the up-scaling. Not sure what it's doing on deinterlacing, it may be upscale 480i to 1080i only. I'm whining because I can't feed my preferred DVD signal (unmunged 480i) to a external video processor with particularly excellent up-scaling, deinterlacing, etc.

Pretty sure 480i to 1080i would require deinterlacing first.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Pretty sure 480i to 1080i would require deinterlacing first.
Yeah, and if that is the case, and *if* the output for dvd was 1080i60 ( I think it was, but I have to check again), then it would be deinterlace, upscale, interlace.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:56 PM
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FWIW, SageTV got auto resolution switching working on their Sigma-based devices so regardless of what Sigma may or may not provide, it is possible to get close at least, even if Sigma doesn't provide "source direct", er directly in their SDK/API.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

Yeah, and if that is the case, and *if* the output for dvd was 1080i60 ( I think it was, but I have to check again), then it would be deinterlace, upscale, interlace.

Yuck.

However, if the disc is well mastered from a film source, the deinterlacing (inverse telecine) should be perfect.
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Old 09-19-2012, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

FWIW, SageTV got auto resolution switching working on their Sigma-based devices so regardless of what Sigma may or may not provide, it is possible to get close at least, even if Sigma doesn't provide "source direct", er directly in their SDK/API.

Agreed. Dune just needs to be a little clever about it and figure out the media details ahead of time. It works even when running in streamer mode (w/o a SageTV server), so Dune should be able to get it working as well.
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Old 09-22-2012, 11:44 PM
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EDIT: After posting the glowing endorsement that follows, I ran into a huge bug with DVD playback. See details here:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1284698/official-mymovies-for-dune-thread/800_100#post_22414326 Too bad. So close.
I've been working out my configuration customizations and preferences over on the Dune thread. My goal was to be HTPC-like or have the K flavor on-screen interface, and give the Dune a fair re-try since I tried it about a year ago. I've watched 2 complete movies now, an mkv and a iso. (and "played in"/tested a lot of others) Both played flawlessly, auto-switched frame rates. Full BRD menu support, started and stopped flawlessly, skipped some trailers I didn't strip on purpose, etc. Execution had no issues so far. It powers up in seconds, goes straight to my main My Movies screen where I can pick categories. I have it integrated with my URC control system. Some issues there, but they were URC's not Dune's. Little IR programming and hex extraction and I took care of them myself.
I took the time to manually go through my MyMovies collection and categorize everything into what I call watched states. I have a few e.g. not watched - old, Not watched- new, classic, keep, pending delete, kids only, etc. Completely customizable however you like. The categories are auto-updating on the Dune. I set them up on my desktop PC, and they just flow over. I added a leftover laptop hard drive to the H1 internally to speed it up vs getting its index from the server. That used to be an ordeal, not now. Screen navigation is just as fast as my HTPC was controlling via remote. The buttons do what they are supposed to. Pop-up menu gives the pop-up menu, not a shell out to a 3rd party piece of software where with 3-5 clicks and navigation I could tell TMT5 to go to the disc's Pop-up menu. I have put the wireless keyboard mouse in a drawer where it ought to be because I didn't have to have it to wrestle the HTPC anymore. I have added movies via Drop and Rip, the Dune's indexes were auto-updated without issue. I have the selection screens set up with a nice 5x11 cover layout that maximizes cover art, preserves the aspect for BRD and DVD. Going into and out of a metadata screen is faster on the Dune (surprise to me).
I played with the iPad app but not much yet. It is supposed act as a full remote if you prefer an iPad. Pick the movie on the iPad and press play. Fringe benefit, but I'm not using it, preferring at least a companion wand remote, but that's a different subject.
Compared to the HTPC, I have no frame rate hoops to jump through, no geek ware to master to get the frame rates right, no sign of duplicated frames, no clumsy windows video drivers to screw with, no 3rd parts player issues, no pop-ups, no lockups, no KB and mouse required in my theater. Source direct, no, but it's better than the HTPC it appears.
"Nothing but pros" you say, so am I Dune cheerleader? Hardly. Well I haven't been before now, but I might become one smile.gif. So what AM *I* missing? Not much. The biggest things are you cannot do that I used some are interactive things via the interface, like tag a movie watched or change a category from the Dune Interface. It's static from a direct interface. But doing those interactive things on the HTPC (except for watched/unwatched) required a wireless mouse/kb in a dark theater, which I didn't do anyway. I HATED having to pick it up. As for the watched flag auto-setting, I liked it but it had it's own issues. Mainly that it set when you went into a movie, not out of one. So if you started a movie it set. It should have been labeled the "started watching" flag. So if you started a movie and didn't finish you had to go to the watched group to find it and finish later. Or reset the flag. Additionally, I don't have as many choices on the Dune for cover art/selection screens, not a huge deal. And then there's.... wait.... nothing else that bothers me. The pros (lots) are far outweighing the (barely any) cons for me.
A slight change in workflow on categorizing movies as I add them, and a little maintenance and I don't have my MIL calling me because she and the kids have the HTPC hosed requiring a reboot walk through while I'm at dinner, CEDIA, vacation, etc? Worthy.
Guys, this has SO much been a better experience than when I tried it last. I'm signing up to be a dealer. I can sell this and not have to worry about the nightmare of HTPC support. At least on the client side. These are no brainier My Movie clients. Unless it starts barfing on movies, this is it. One could buy a hundred of them for the cost of a K system that will hold what mine will. Is it the same?, no but at 5 digits less expensive it's just fine for me. Better than just fine. You guys who know me know I'm picky. So far I'm really liking it. Family with 2 AV literate teens and wife have given thumbs up, too. It doesn't even have to be visible in my rack, but I'm so tickled it's working so well (so far) that I'll have to get a custom rack shelf for it. Although at its teeny size it may look funny smile.gif.
Thanks Lon for the feedback that gave me the impetus to retry. Thanks to the guys who hang out at the Dune thread who gave a LOT of help on the interface customization. Dune's firmware improvements appear to have made it stable, and the MM integrations have finished it off. Anyone want one setup like mine and need a dealer, let me know.
And, I think I'm about to have a nice HTPC that needs a home biggrin.gif. Hopefully my playback experiences will continue to be as good as they have been and what others report.
Cheers,
Scott

Hi Scott

Its a myth that kscape will cost you multiple of 5 figures..i.e 10 to power 5...smile.gif
I just bought 100 disc changer on kscape forum for 900 dollars which was a dealer demo. The blu ray players/streamers can be had for 2000 or so from dealers brand new ...which i can give u contacts of . The servers are the most expensive part. I have built 3 unraid servers in last 6 years. To build a quality unRAID server yourself from scratch , it costs decent amount of money. The one I currently have in my home has supermicro serever motherboard with xeon processor and LianLi case. The barebones with licence without any hard drives cost me mnore than $1000 . If you buy enterprise hard drives which usually sell from $400-1000, your 12-15 TB NAS/server will cost your few thousand dollars. I recently saw 3U server with 14 , 750GB hard drives on sale at Kscape forum for about 12K and I am sure you can negotiate that price. K scape uses enterprise drives only.I currently have 3U server with 8 3TB hard drives with 6 empty. good thing is that 3U server comes witha hot spare , so when one hard drive dies , its rebuilt right away and you are sent email and you get a new drive in 2-3 days . I am not blinded to K as I o wn it as I have read in their blind followers that they have their own operating system, which I dont believe is true. I used nMap to find open ports on K server on my network to program my iRule and nMap showed that the server was using linux and even showed the linux version it was using. So it is almost what unraid is doing, but instead of being an open source NAS/server, they have perfected it for just being a movioe server and closed system . I wish they had left some openings to tweak it for people like us who dont want to be satisfied with what they think is good enough...but...it is what it is..smile.gif
If you just use K for DVD its extremely cheap.. I bought K music palyer for $299 on ebay which had retail price of $4000 , which connects to any K server and rips any CD and DVD.
I literally spent 10 minutes per room to hook up and configure my players/servers... not kidding or exaggerating.
But I am Happy that you are enjoying Dune...but seeing your preogression, I think you will eventually get K ..smile.gif

I am not trying to sway you into buying one...but I am not kind of person, who doesn't value money, I have earned it very hard and dont like to throw it away esp when I know how to build HTPC's / servers etc. But you can get a K system for lot less than what you perceive, if you are patient and build it piecemeal...smile.gif
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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but seeing your preogression, I think you will eventually get K .
You are probably right Mani smile.gif, resistance is futile. But if they are using Linux, then they are using a PC and if they are using a PC, they have the same limitations on video that any other PC has. Unless they made their own video/audio card, and they may have. SOmeone crack theirs open and see biggrin.gif
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Old 09-23-2012, 11:40 AM
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You are probably right Mani smile.gif, resistance is futile. But if they are using Linux, then they are using a PC and if they are using a PC, they have the same limitations on video that any other PC has. Unless they made their own video/audio card, and they may have. SOmeone crack theirs open and see biggrin.gif
No need. smile.gif I can tell you that they use a dedicated Blu-ray SoC (hardware audio/video decoder) just like stand-alone products. And hence the audio/video stack works that way. Just about any Blu-ray player these days that has Internet functionality runs Linux or some variations of it (much easier to get the networking functionality that way than a custom solution). That doesn't mean they work like a PC.

I see our K at work everyday and I tell you, I cringe at the thought of building my own PC solution. You turn on the box and you are done. You need another player? Plug in the Ethernet jack into it and it does online in a few seconds and boom, you have another node playing video. You have a child? Give them the child remote and it only shows movies they should see. A 4 year old can operate it.

At some point you have to decide it is just money and go for it smile.gif.

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Old 09-23-2012, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

You are probably right Mani smile.gif, resistance is futile. But if they are using Linux, then they are using a PC and if they are using a PC, they have the same limitations on video that any other PC has. Unless they made their own video/audio card, and they may have. SOmeone crack theirs open and see biggrin.gif

The Dune is also running Linux. And even if K's servers run Linux it doesn't mean the players do. (Though I don't know anything about K's internals.)
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Old 09-23-2012, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
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The Dune is also running Linux. And even if K's servers run Linux it doesn't mean the players do. (Though I don't know anything about K's internals.)
Yeah, I wasn't thinking it through. Lots of things have embedded linux kernels that aren't PC's per se.
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Old 09-23-2012, 06:49 PM
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Yeah, I wasn't thinking it through. Lots of things have embedded linux kernels that aren't PC's per se.

Tivo is linux. No?

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Old 09-23-2012, 06:51 PM
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At some point you have to decide it is just money and go for it smile.gif.

I really, really wish it were that simple.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Tivo is linux. No?
I'm pretty sure it is. I've had to hack the hard drives before using Linux tools.
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Old 09-23-2012, 11:07 PM
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I really, really wish it were that simple.
It is that simple. Send us a check, you will get a K in return. biggrin.gif Other than money there is no negative I can think of. What's on your mind there?

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Old 09-24-2012, 05:26 AM
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For me the biggest issue with the k system is the Blu-ray carousel. If you have a large collection it’s not a feasible solution to use imo and practically negates having the content stored on the server in the first place.
I know why they did it, I just don’t like it at all.

They don’t do 3D and don’t internally decode the HD audio formats either - both not an issue for some.

Apart from that, they don’t really have any outside of cost.

Personally I'm a big fan of K, but the current niggles prevent me from buying into it.
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Old 09-24-2012, 05:35 AM
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It is that simple. Send us a check, you will get a K in return. biggrin.gif Other than money there is no negative I can think of. What's on your mind there?

That the cost is the deal breaker unfortunately.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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Old 09-24-2012, 09:48 AM
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For me the biggest issue with the k system is the Blu-ray carousel. If you have a large collection it’s not a feasible solution to use imo and practically negates having the content stored on the server in the first place.
I know why they did it, I just don’t like it at all.
They don’t do 3D and don’t internally decode the HD audio formats either - both not an issue for some.
Apart from that, they don’t really have any outside of cost.
Personally I'm a big fan of K, but the current niggles prevent me from buying into it.
That's really the list. One has to get comfortable with them or look elsewhere. I currently use an HTPC for the rest of our entertainment. Even simple things like it syncing correctly with my monitor doesn't work right half the time. When I power on, it usually resets to 1280x768 instead of 1080p. Even forcing the resolution in the Intel control panel makes no difference there. After all these years, it is remarkable that the PC ecosystem has yet to embrace doing simple things in video right. It pains me to say that, having lived in that world. Well, actually because I have lived in that world that I know it won't get much attention. One of the reason I left Microsoft was because my new manager showed up and said: "I don't own a TV or a radio and don't watch or player either!" Having been a VP, this was not a low-level employee saying this. When you are managing the audio/video division, you go home and start packing smile.gif. What was an uphill battle, became an impossible thing.

Ironically my job at Microsoft propelled me to push for managed copy in Blu-ray so that copies could be made without the requirement for that jukebox. That initiative floundered and never got to fruition. So we are stuck with less that convenient solutions for the customer.

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Old 09-24-2012, 12:55 PM
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I have run across a few hiccups with the Dune playback, I will get an occasional loss of audio than video playback slows and then it resets itself back in sync, not sure if this is hardware or my network but home network is gigabit quality switcher and cables...
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
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I have run across a few hiccups with the Dune playback, I will get an occasional loss of audio than video playback slows and then it resets itself back in sync, not sure if this is hardware or my network but home network is gigabit quality switcher and cables...
Couple days ago mine gave some blink of "I/O error" when starting a BRD. Gave a black screen and I was unable to exit it. Took a reboot and then restarted the movie. Movie gave an option to use BLu-Ray or "lite" I had chose BRD, this time I chose "lite". Movie played this time without lockup but playback had a stutter in it at what appeared to be some non-periodic interval. Would get a freeze then it continued. Was on Wrath of the Titans or something Titans I watched with kids. We all suffered through it as it was about ever 10 min IIRC. When movie was over I tried to play it again, this time selecting BRD again. This time it made it to menu and played without lockup. Did not re-watch long enough to see if it got stutters.
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Old 09-24-2012, 07:10 PM
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No need. smile.gif I can tell you that they use a dedicated Blu-ray SoC (hardware audio/video decoder) just like stand-alone products. And hence the audio/video stack works that way. Just about any Blu-ray player these days that has Internet functionality runs Linux or some variations of it (much easier to get the networking functionality that way than a custom solution). That doesn't mean they work like a PC.
I see our K at work everyday and I tell you, I cringe at the thought of building my own PC solution. You turn on the box and you are done. You need another player? Plug in the Ethernet jack into it and it does online in a few seconds and boom, you have another node playing video. You have a child? Give them the child remote and it only shows movies they should see. A 4 year old can operate it.
At some point you have to decide it is just money and go for it smile.gif.

I was not talking about linux in players. I was talking about their software in the server - the most costly product in the link- it runs a version of linux as far as I can tell and so does unRAID. I was connecting to the IP address of my server with nMAP to see what ports, the server was using to configure feedbacks from kscape on my irule . I dont know how much modification/ customization K has done with the linux . But contrary to what some people have said in several forums, I dont believe they wrote their own operating system. But whatever they have done works very well. I haven't had to reboot or do anything to server or players in last 6 months besides just inserting a disc and playing movies from the remote or my ipad.
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Old 09-24-2012, 09:20 PM
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I was not talking about linux in players. I was talking about their software in the server - the most costly product in the link- it runs a version of linux as far as I can tell and so does unRAID. I was connecting to the IP address of my server with nMAP to see what ports, the server was using to configure feedbacks from kscape on my irule . I dont know how much modification/ customization K has done with the linux . But contrary to what some people have said in several forums, I dont believe they wrote their own operating system. But whatever they have done works very well. I haven't had to reboot or do anything to server or players in last 6 months besides just inserting a disc and playing movies from the remote or my ipad.
I have not asked them what OS they run there but Linux is a good guess. I do know however that their innovation comes in the form of custom file system/volume management (i.e. the storage subsystem). They also do what enterprise class hardware companies do in heavily testing and qualifying hard drives. As you may know, the price competition in consumer hard disks has driven the quality way down. A large server with many drives will have high failure rates as a results. The K server also has excellent monitoring. Building reliable systems requires attention to all pieces and they have done so. Our K runs 24 hours/day, clocking far more mileage than average home use and has had zero failure. It is enterprise class system for the consumer.

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Old 09-24-2012, 10:00 PM
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It's pretty trivial to figure out what they use, as they disclose most of it anyway. Here's a excerpt from their installation manual:
Quote:
This distribution includes software from the following libraries that are licensed under the GNU General Public License, Version 2.
Libraries: ALSA, Bison, BusyBox, E2fsprogs, Minicom, GDB, GNU Readline, ARMulator, PSIM, SGX Embedded Systems DDK for Linux kernel, Linux Kernel, Kernel Headers, cramfs, Udev, Fusion Kernel Module, GStreamer Bad Plug-ins, GStreamer Base Plug-ins, NTFS 3G, eCos host tools, Automake, GCC, GNU Libtool, GNU M4, FUSE, procps, Intel Media Processor CE 3100 Software Development Kit (GPL libraries only).

So it looks like the extenders probably use some kind of hardware from SGX systems, which uses Gstreamer libraries to do the decoding (no doubt with hardware offload from SGX). Coincidently, one would use much of the same software if they were to build a Linux based HTPC. Of course the real value for K is stitching it all together, making it reliable and easy to use.
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Old 09-24-2012, 10:12 PM
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It's pretty trivial to figure out what they use, as they disclose most of it anyway. Here's a excerpt from their installation manual:
So it looks like the extenders probably use some kind of hardware from SGX systems, which uses Gstreamer libraries to do the decoding (no doubt with hardware offload from SGX). Coincidently, one would use much of the same software if they were to build a Linux based HTPC. Of course the real value for K is stitching it all together, making it reliable and easy to use.

I am not saying K is not good...after all I bought it. I am just stating the facts ...I just dont support the views of people who get blinded by the gear they own. I am just saying I heard from few staunch supporters of K, that they programmed their own operating system...which is a tall tale I believe.
Another thing I have found unique about K server is their extremely fast response time. When you click on a movie it almost starts instantaneously...probably 1 sec or less for a DVD and 1-2 seconds for a Blu ray. I cant do that from another windows based system, to stream from my unRAID or any other NAS or Hard drive.

I am not a big believer in enterprise hard rives and expense associated with it. I have used 100 or so hard rives in last 10 years and I haven't had a single failure in consumer hard drives ...may be its just my luck. I still have a windows XP dell desktop sitting in my closet from 10 years ago which completely functional including the hard rive. I have bought 2 enterprise hard drives during this time and 1 has failed after 2 years. So even if you buy a consumer hard drive at 1/4th the cost and you have to keep replacing it more frequently , i don't see it as a problem as long it is a redundant system and the data is not lost.
i truly believe that hard rives is one of the areas where K cost can be cut down. They can sell their servers at their asking price to account for their R&D and IP, which is a fair game. But to but 1000-155 dollar hard drives when I can buy one for $139 an replace it every 2 years if it fails for next 14 years for that cost doesnt make sense to me . Hard drives is not their IP and I think at least they should keep that open.
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Old 09-25-2012, 05:37 AM
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I am not a big believer in enterprise hard rives and expense associated with it. I have used 100 or so hard rives in last 10 years and I haven't had a single failure in consumer hard drives ...may be its just my luck. I still have a windows XP dell desktop sitting in my closet from 10 years ago which completely functional including the hard rive. I have bought 2 enterprise hard drives during this time and 1 has failed after 2 years. So even if you buy a consumer hard drive at 1/4th the cost and you have to keep replacing it more frequently , i don't see it as a problem as long it is a redundant system and the data is not lost.
i truly believe that hard rives is one of the areas where K cost can be cut down. They can sell their servers at their asking price to account for their R&D and IP, which is a fair game. But to but 1000-155 dollar hard drives when I can buy one for $139 an replace it every 2 years if it fails for next 14 years for that cost doesnt make sense to me . Hard drives is not their IP and I think at least they should keep that open.

Especially when Western Digital has their new Red line of hard drives, designed to be used in RAID/NAS products and for only $10 more per drive than their Green line ($180 for 3TB).

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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Old 09-25-2012, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by mani View Post

I am not saying K is not good...after all I bought it. I am just stating the facts ...I just dont support the views of people who get blinded by the gear they own. I am just saying I heard from few staunch supporters of K, that they programmed their own operating system...which is a tall tale I believe.

Well, I am sure it's more than a tall tale. It's simply incorrect. In this day and age there's very few reasons to write your own, new OS for a product. Now did they customize Linux? Of course they did.
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Another thing I have found unique about K server is their extremely fast response time. When you click on a movie it almost starts instantaneously...probably 1 sec or less for a DVD and 1-2 seconds for a Blu ray. I cant do that from another windows based system, to stream from my unRAID or any other NAS or Hard drive.

FWIW in my MythTV/Linux setup, blue-rays start virtually instantly.
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Originally Posted by mani View Post

I am not a big believer in enterprise hard rives and expense associated with it. I have used 100 or so hard rives in last 10 years and I haven't had a single failure in consumer hard drives ...may be its just my luck. I still have a windows XP dell desktop sitting in my closet from 10 years ago which completely functional including the hard rive. I have bought 2 enterprise hard drives during this time and 1 has failed after 2 years. So even if you buy a consumer hard drive at 1/4th the cost and you have to keep replacing it more frequently , i don't see it as a problem as long it is a redundant system and the data is not lost.
i truly believe that hard rives is one of the areas where K cost can be cut down. They can sell their servers at their asking price to account for their R&D and IP, which is a fair game. But to but 1000-155 dollar hard drives when I can buy one for $139 an replace it every 2 years if it fails for next 14 years for that cost doesnt make sense to me . Hard drives is not their IP and I think at least they should keep that open.

Enterprise hard drives do not need to be that much, but that does not stop companies from re-selling them at those prices. There are differences between enterprise and non-enterprise disks, but there are some situations where the non-enterprise will still work. But if I were running a company like K, I would probably do the same thing they do and make a nice profit on an otherwise little-to-no margin component like the hard drive.
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Old 09-25-2012, 07:43 AM
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No need. smile.gif I can tell you that they use a dedicated Blu-ray SoC (hardware audio/video decoder) just like stand-alone products. And hence the audio/video stack works that way. Just about any Blu-ray player these days that has Internet functionality runs Linux or some variations of it (much easier to get the networking functionality that way than a custom solution). That doesn't mean they work like a PC.
I see our K at work everyday and I tell you, I cringe at the thought of building my own PC solution. You turn on the box and you are done. You need another player? Plug in the Ethernet jack into it and it does online in a few seconds and boom, you have another node playing video. You have a child? Give them the child remote and it only shows movies they should see. A 4 year old can operate it.
At some point you have to decide it is just money and go for it smile.gif.

Amirin:

Have you looked inside the actual players, I am curious as to how these players have a source direct option and no other players in the entire market have this feature
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Old 09-25-2012, 07:54 AM
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When I power on, it usually resets to 1280x768 instead of 1080p.

Get an HDMI Detective. Problem solved.

It's also possible to solve this problem with some custom software. If you want I would be more than happy to write a POC - shouldn't take more than 30 minutes.
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Even forcing the resolution in the Intel control panel makes no difference there. After all these years, it is remarkable that the PC ecosystem has yet to embrace doing simple things in video right.

"Right" is relative. Intel thinks they are selecting the correct path by basing display resolution on the current EDID instead of the LKG one. It's annoying when it doesn't work the way we want, but given the size of our needs vs. the size of the rest of the PC ecosystem (where this approach makes more sense) it isn't that hard to empathize with the decision.

Obviously it would be better for us if they offered the option for both approaches. The feature to force a resolution in BIOS is on the requested list, but for it to happen we need to signal that it would be worth their time to do it.
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:30 PM
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Get an HDMI Detective. Problem solved.
We can do one better. We have a Quantum Data HDMI analyzer wink.gifsmile.gif. As you can imagine, people don't have our $3000 analyzer around or even have any idea where to look let alone want to spend $100 on HDMI Detective. They see the issues and never bother to use a PC as a solution. Even for me there is a limit of how much I "mess" with my PC to get things working.
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It's also possible to solve this problem with some custom software. If you want I would be more than happy to write a POC - shouldn't take more than 30 minutes.
I do have such custom software but it is not working and I have not had time to use our analyzer to see why it is not fixing it.
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"Right" is relative. Intel thinks they are selecting the correct path by basing display resolution on the current EDID instead of the LKG one. It's annoying when it doesn't work the way we want, but given the size of our needs vs. the size of the rest of the PC ecosystem (where this approach makes more sense) it isn't that hard to empathize with the decision. Obviously it would be better for us if they offered the option for both approaches. The feature to force a resolution in BIOS is on the requested list, but for it to happen we need to signal that it would be worth their time to do it.
That *is* the point I made smile.gif. When I ran the division, I would force some of these things to get resolved. What was the line in Star Trek movie? Sometimes you do serve the needs of the one smile.gif. When something doesn't take much effort, it was possible to push it through and meet the needs of the specialized group. In this case, forced ATSC video rates, especially 1080p should be standard.

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Old 09-25-2012, 09:05 PM
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We can do one better. We have a Quantum Data HDMI analyzer wink.gifsmile.gif. As you can imagine, people don't have our $3000 analyzer around or even have any idea where to look let alone want to spend $100 on HDMI Detective. They see the issues and never bother to use a PC as a solution. Even for me there is a limit of how much I "mess" with my PC to get things working.

The HDMI Detective don't exist because the HTPC exists. The device has myriad purpose both in this application and in the CE space so I don't think it's valid to characterize this strictly as a PC issue.

Either way PCs offer features that other products don't, which is why we use them instead of specialized products for those use cases. While I understand that for you this may not be the right solution, I also think it's important to provide some balance (even if I agree on some points) for readers who may not understand the full context or potential for solutions especially considering that compared to the cost of a "K" system $90 to make a problem go away is nothing.
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I do have such custom software but it is not working and I have not had time to use our analyzer to see why it is not fixing it.

I can't speak to why your app isn't not working, but the design is quite simple. Windows raises an event with the display changes; hook it, if it's not the desired resolution and that resolution is currently valid "make it so" wink.gif.
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That *is* the point I made smile.gif. When I ran the division, I would force some of these things to get resolved. What was the line in Star Trek movie? Sometimes you do serve the needs of the one smile.gif. When something doesn't take much effort, it was possible to push it through and meet the needs of the specialized group. In this case, forced ATSC video rates, especially 1080p should be standard.

I don't believe the state of affairs is as dire as you suggested so I must have missed that. We have the ability to affect change, we just need to be vocal and patient - the larger our niche becomes the more power it wields WRT to development $.
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