Prima Cinema - Page 2 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 231 Old 12-21-2010, 06:33 PM
Member
 
petemcn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I think there are two main reasons why this venture will never get off the ground.

1) It isn't only targeting the extremely wealthy community but the extremely wealthy community that sees value in this product. $20k startup and $500/movie is won't make sense to many individuals when they can deal with public riff-raff for $11 and a little bit of gasoline to drive to the theater. Wealthy people don't spend money simply b/c they can, ok some do but it is a minuscule %, but more because they see value in spending that money.

2) A $20k startup cost is tough to swallow with such an uncertain future for the company. How do purchasers know that their $20k investment won't become worthless in a month if the company folds. An individual willing to spend $20k is doing it b/c they think they will get years of movies at $500 each. There is no way to guarantee that and even the highly optimistic see the sales estimates as virtually impossible. 250k homes in 5 years? Are they nuts?
petemcn is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 231 Old 12-21-2010, 06:37 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
amirm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Washington State
Posts: 17,768
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 493 Post(s)
Liked: 323
Good point on #2. They should lease the hardware as long as people rent X number of movies per year....

Amir
Founder, Madrona Digital
"Insist on Quality Engineering"

amirm is offline  
post #33 of 231 Old 12-21-2010, 07:12 PM
Senior Member
 
ddean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Silicon Valley, CA, USA
Posts: 207
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Although I'm dubious about the ultimate success of this product, I'm happy to see new business models for content distribution launched. Eventually, someone will find the on-demand/streaming/download business model that works, just as Apple did with the iTunes Music Store.

I agree with Amir that Pete's comment above re: leasing the hardware is an excellent idea. Otherwise, you might watch 1 movie a month for a year, spending a total of $26K to watch 12 movies -- over $2K per movie.

One more issue: to some degree, going to a movie theater and watching a film with a large audience is like going to a sporting event: it's just a different experience than watching at home (even if you throw a Super Bowl/World Cup/Olympics/etc. party). How many people want that experience, which doesn't replicate in a home environment -- even when the technical quality is better at home. (My system is much more modest, but I have better audio in my living room than most theaters, and I'm happy enough with my Kuro.)

Drew Dean
ddean is offline  
post #34 of 231 Old 12-21-2010, 10:09 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Mr.Poindexter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Clovis, California
Posts: 7,381
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Dean, I agree re:sporting event but generally the people in this target group are not watching the game with the rest of the crowd but up in their private skybox.

Big risk for buyers of these systems. Even if the maker of another unit went belly up after the buyer ponied up $20k+, the Lumis is still a projector that will work for anything you feed it. The D-BOX has a library of nearly 1000 titles. Kaleidescape will still function as sold but have limited expansion options when your server is full. If this company goes belly up, they don't even have to send out a command to brick your component. It ceases to work except for any films you purchased assuming they don't give you a limited viewing window and even for those, a $20 BluRay is a small price to pay to get the same function the $500 fee gave you 6 months earlier.
Mr.Poindexter is offline  
post #35 of 231 Old 12-22-2010, 01:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lymzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: lalaland
Posts: 3,073
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I guess the only way to see DCI level content at reasonable cost is via cloud. Studios just won't open the vault at mass price without having a complete control.

HDPLEX
lymzy is offline  
post #36 of 231 Old 12-22-2010, 09:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
iansilv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,077
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Sorry- just skimming the thread here- Prima is including condom use lessons from a prostitute with the initial purchase?
iansilv is offline  
post #37 of 231 Old 12-22-2010, 11:22 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
CINERAMAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: everywhere
Posts: 12,447
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
Liked: 40
They are sweettenin the deal already.
CINERAMAX is offline  
post #38 of 231 Old 12-23-2010, 11:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,611
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 18
One can only hope Prima uses a condom when they do their business.
Pete is offline  
post #39 of 231 Old 12-24-2010, 05:36 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
CINERAMAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: everywhere
Posts: 12,447
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
Liked: 40
From LATIMES:


The Empire Strikes Back<<br />
Theater operators are mounting a challenge to plans by Hollywood studios to release movies in the home when they are still in theaters.

The nation's largest theater chains have been reaching out to investors and analysts on Wall Street, as well as directors, producers and agents, in an effort to build support for preserving so-called theatrical windows — the period of time between when a movie opens in cinemas and when it comes out on DVD or other media.

The outreach is in response to statements by media executives touting plans to offer movies in the home via video on demand at a price of $30 to $60, one to two months after they are released in theaters.

Premium-priced VOD is foreseen as a new revenue source for studios looking to offset declining DVD sales, as well as a boon for cable companies that have been stymied in their efforts to deliver movies into the home earlier in part because of concerns it could cannibalize home video sales.

Save Up to 90%: Sign up for our free daily e-mail to get in on exclusive deals around L.A. Powered by Groupon. Subscribe Now.

But theater companies contend that the VOD plans will undercut movie ticket sales, giving consumers less incentive to trek to the theater if they can wait a few extra weeks to watch the movie in the comfort of their home.

"A 30-day window makes absolutely no sense to us whatsoever," said Gerry Lopez, chief executive of AMC Entertainment, the nation's second-largest theater operator. "We're concerned about the grave consequences this could bring."

Currently movies are available on VOD about the same time they become available on DVD, about 130 days after they debut in theaters.

The pushback is led by the National Assn. of Theater Owners, the trade group that represents most of the country's major theater circuits.

"We are reaching out to the creative community and the business community because we think some of the studios are moving down a path of a bad business model," said John Fithian, the association's president. "They risk losing two dimes to save one nickel."

Theater owners are taking their case directly to Wall Street. In recent weeks, Fithian and top theater executives have held meetings with analysts from such firms as Deutsche Bank and Barclays to outline their concerns on early premium VOD releases and make the argument that the studios' strategy won't pay off for either side.

They've also been enlisting the support of filmmakers, hoping that their voices can help sway opinion.

"We don't make movies for the small screen, we make movies for the big screen," Jon Landau, producer of James Cameron's blockbuster "Avatar." "Television is a great art form, but it's an oxymoron to say we're giving you a premium experience on TV."

But theater operators could be fighting against the inevitable. As broadband technology becomes faster and consumers increasingly turn to their high-definition, big-screen televisions to watch movies, the demand for content will also grow, potentially tipping the economics away from theaters.

Studio executives contend too that they need to find ways to generate new sources of revenue in the face of emerging technologies, changing consumer habits and a steady decline in home video sales, which for many years propped up the movie industry.

"We are exploring every conceivable additional revenue stream out there," Universal Pictures Chairman Adam Fogelson said. "The facts are irrefutable that our business models are under an extraordinary amount of pressure. In order for the studios to remain healthy, we need to find ways to recapture that revenue."

Studios and theaters have a symbiotic relationship stretching back a century that has been mutually beneficial. Theaters get to keep roughly half the revenue from ticket sales, while the studios keep the other half and resell their movies multiple times to consumers: first in theaters, then on DVD, followed by video on demand, then showings on cable channels such as HBO and Showtime.

However, the partnership is now under strain.

Theaters threatened to pull Walt Disney Co.'s "Alice in Wonderland" from screens this year after Disney announced plans to release the movie on DVD one month earlier than it typically does. In May, the Federal Communications Commission granted a controversial waiver to studios, clearing the way for an anti-piracy technology that makes it easier for studios to pipe first-run movies into the home.

More troubling, movie theater operators are leery about the pending merger of Comcast Corp. with NBC Universal, which would put a top Hollywood studio into the hands of the company that provides cable TV service to one out of every five homes in the U.S. Comcast executives have signaled their desire to offer movies from Universal's film library earlier to cable subscribers than traditionally has been the case.

Time Warner Inc., owner of the Warner Bros. movie studio, expects to offer premium-priced movies through video on demand 30 to 60 days after their release in theaters. News Corp.'s 20th Century Fox and Sony Corp.'s Sony Pictures studios are also weighing earlier VOD service.

"In a world where consumers see our DVDs available at Redbox for $1 a night, we want to establish the value of our content," said Kevin Tsujihara, president of Warner Bros. Home Entertainment.

He added that the studio would be flexible, adjusting VOD release depending on how long a film plays in theaters.

Studios aren't all looking through the same window, however. Viacom Inc.'s Paramount Pictures studio is not pursuing a premium VOD window, said an executive with the company.

"We're operating under the belief that the best strategy for our business is to have an exclusive theatrical window," Paramount Vice Chairman Rob Moore said.

Save Up to 90%: Sign up for our free daily e-mail to get in on exclusive deals around L.A. Powered by Groupon. Subscribe Now.

Moore agreed with exhibitors that they need to protect the movie-going experience, otherwise "attendance could drop significantly."

Paramount is also the only studio that has corporate ties to the theater business. Its parent company, Viacom, is controlled by Sumner Redstone, who also controls the National Amusements theater chain.

Attendance is down 3.4% this year and has generally been flat in the last five years, although revenue for the industry has risen because of higher ticket prices.

Unease among theater operators has been fueled by a breakdown in talks that studios and exhibitors began a year ago over the theatrical windows issue.

"Our concern is that we have read more about specific intentions of certain studios in the press versus direct communication with us," said Amy Miles, chief executive of Regal Entertainment, the country's largest theater chain. "We believe pursuit of a collaborative strategy potentially avoids the need for defensive alternatives to protect our business."

Michael Lynton, chairman of Sony Pictures Entertainment, said the subject of making movies available earlier on VOD had been broached with theater operators, but at the same time he acknowledged that there had not been a "meaningful dialogue."

Some industry analysts contend that the concerns are overblown, arguing that studios have too much at stake to risk biting the hand that feeds them, and that with fewer than half of U.S. households capable of viewing VOD, the upside would not be significant.

"The potential market for someone who is going to pay $30 or more 30 days after a movie is released is a very small market," said James Marsh, a media industry analyst with Piper Jaffray.
CINERAMAX is offline  
post #40 of 231 Old 12-24-2010, 06:07 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
Art Sonneborn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Battle Creek,MI USA
Posts: 22,291
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 44
This was predictable IMO. Unless the ultimate plan is the demise of commercial theaters the release for home this way is a non starter.

Art

My HT


iRule rules my theater
 

"If she's amazing she won't be easy,if she's easy she won't be amazing"

 

Bob Marley

Art Sonneborn is online now  
post #41 of 231 Old 12-24-2010, 06:35 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
thebland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Detroit, Michigan USA
Posts: 23,614
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked: 88
Yep... Crap.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
thebland is online now  
post #42 of 231 Old 12-24-2010, 04:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lymzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: lalaland
Posts: 3,073
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I was wondering if it is possible to create a special pricing structure under the commercial theater category for "home" users?


Home users need to purchase the same playback equipment as the chain.

HDPLEX
lymzy is offline  
post #43 of 231 Old 12-24-2010, 04:37 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
CINERAMAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: everywhere
Posts: 12,447
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Ahhh yes, $3,700 a month and you get 8 major studios, keeping the content window open indefinitely in hard drives. That is Warner's plan according to a recent Hollywood reporter article. Now that the cat is out of the bag I can say was involved in doing some of the market research obtaining 25 signatures of dealers with clients that would, or clients that would be willing to shell out that though.
CINERAMAX is offline  
post #44 of 231 Old 12-24-2010, 04:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lymzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: lalaland
Posts: 3,073
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Ahhh yes, $3,700 a month and you get 8 major studios, keeping the content window open indefinitely in hard drives. That is Warner's plan according to a recent Hollywood reporter article. Now that the cat is out of the bag I can say was involved in doing some of the market research obtaining 25 signatures of dealers with clients that would, or clients that would be willing to shell out that though.

If "home" users were treated the same as theater owner with zero box office income, theater owners won't be able to oppose this easily?

I guess the other advantage is that playback equipment won't get phased out easily.

HDPLEX
lymzy is offline  
post #45 of 231 Old 07-04-2011, 10:23 AM
Member
 
BillyBlueHat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 57
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Watching click on bbc and they said you only get 24 hours to watch your film. As much as I think it's a good idea I feel $500 for just 24 hours is harder to deal with than the price of the box.
BillyBlueHat is offline  
post #46 of 231 Old 11-09-2011, 03:47 PM
LJG
AVS Special Member
 
LJG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Brookville, NY
Posts: 3,984
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Prima cinema is looking at a March 2012 roll our date, seems to be for real.
LJG is offline  
post #47 of 231 Old 11-09-2011, 04:22 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Steve Bruzonsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
Posts: 17,611
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

Prima cinema is looking at a March 2012 roll our date, seems to be for real.

It will last as long as Ahton Kutcher lasts trying to be Charlie Sheen?

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
Steve Bruzonsky is offline  
post #48 of 231 Old 11-11-2011, 11:55 AM
LJG
AVS Special Member
 
LJG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Brookville, NY
Posts: 3,984
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Let's look at the positives:

Pre-Loaded content, Not streamed, which will allow for Greater Pixel Depth, and Color Quality than BluRay. PERIOD.

Day and Date Release same as Theaters.....

Only negative at this point is Price.
LJG is offline  
post #49 of 231 Old 11-11-2011, 12:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,611
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 18
"Prima hopes to install its system in 250,000 homes within five years, and some argue it could carve out a super-premium niche."
The Hollywood Reporter

In their dreams! $20K for the delivery system plus $500 per release?! Maybe a few hundred conspicuous consumers at best....those that don't have any Hollywood connections who can slip them a copy whenever they want.
Pete is offline  
post #50 of 231 Old 11-11-2011, 05:03 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Mr.Poindexter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Clovis, California
Posts: 7,381
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Mr.Poindexter is offline  
post #51 of 231 Old 11-12-2011, 07:29 AM
LJG
AVS Special Member
 
LJG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Brookville, NY
Posts: 3,984
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Well default judgment entered last week against XStream HD by Echo star for over $2,000,000 so it looks like XStream HD is no longer a choice.http://dockets.justia.com/docket/new...v02790/378309/

Beyond HD by Entertainment Experience, LLC never got off the ground.

Improved source content is the final hurdle to all our high end projectors so hopefully Prima Cinema will succeed and the cost will be adjusted downward as they get a foot in the door.

Think about it if Prima had said $50-$100 per movie the theater owners would never let it get off the ground. At $20,000 for equipment and $500 per movie its not a great threat to movie theater owners.

Once the horse is out of the barn then this could open up great possibilities for the high end world.
LJG is offline  
post #52 of 231 Old 11-12-2011, 07:50 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
CINERAMAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: everywhere
Posts: 12,447
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Aye to that sentiment.
CINERAMAX is offline  
post #53 of 231 Old 03-22-2012, 12:02 PM
LJG
AVS Special Member
 
LJG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Brookville, NY
Posts: 3,984
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Looks like system will be previewed March 29th, http://www.frankentek.com/
LJG is offline  
post #54 of 231 Old 03-22-2012, 05:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
iansilv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,077
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
That's pretty exciting! Anyone here going?
iansilv is offline  
post #55 of 231 Old 03-22-2012, 06:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
DanFrancis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Aurora, IL, USA
Posts: 1,845
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 23
I recommend it; Frankentek has a great showroom!

Dan

Dan Francis
Head of Sales US
C'SEED Entertainment Systems GMBH
www.cseed.tv
df@cseed.tv
DanFrancis is offline  
post #56 of 231 Old 03-23-2012, 06:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,611
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 18
If Hollywood is going to sanction this business model, it wood seem to me that the logical people to partner with would be those commercial operations that already supply black boxes and transmit new releases to the cineplexes.
Pete is offline  
post #57 of 231 Old 03-23-2012, 07:04 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Curt Palme's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 18,942
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 19
It's the 250K user number that I have a problem with. In order to spend the $20K/$500, you'd pretty much be targeting people with high end home cinemas, not people with a 42" plasma.

Are there 250,000 home theatre owners in the world, let alone ones that would spend $500+ per movie? I see the people that are willing to spend $500 per movie being the type that need to be ahead of the Joneses. I think that number is VERY optimistic.

www.curtpalme.com - CRT tech info

www.soundsolutionscanada.com -pro audio website
Curt Palme is offline  
post #58 of 231 Old 03-23-2012, 07:34 AM
Advanced Member
 
Talk2Me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Marin,CA./ Burton, OH
Posts: 506
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post

"Prima hopes to install its system in 250,000 homes within five years, and some argue it could carve out a super-premium niche."
The Hollywood Reporter

In their dreams! $20K for the delivery system plus $500 per release?! Maybe a few hundred conspicuous consumers at best....those that don't have any Hollywood connections who can slip them a copy whenever they want.

But, do the 1% 'ers really care that much about movies?
Talk2Me is offline  
post #59 of 231 Old 03-25-2012, 04:29 PM
Senior Member
 
virusc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 469
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
This reminds me of the proprietary WVHS HD feature release format they had in the early 1990's (I think it was 92-3). The playback decks were around 20k and the business model was a selection of first rate major motion film movies that were available for rental at several hundred dollars each in a few select markets (CA - NY city). Some special content was available for purchase for around $500 if I remember correctly. Very few titles were released and it quickly faded away. (I have seen and used the system BTW). I think their are going to be some similarities between this and Prima in terms of the target potential customers and install base. I also have seen D5 decks with content being passed around the same circles in the late 90's with the same results.
virusc is offline  
post #60 of 231 Old 03-26-2012, 04:33 AM
Member
 
Ryan711's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I assume these are essentially the 2k copies that theaters receive? If that's the case, does that open the door for 4k copies being delivered via this system when they are available?
Ryan711 is offline  
Reply Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+)

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off