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post #181 of 231 Old 05-10-2013, 05:48 PM
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Am I hot or cold? tongue.gif

He's talking about Imax
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post #182 of 231 Old 08-28-2013, 12:59 PM
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Bumping this up for the hell of it. Any more news? It seems they will be at CEDIA this year. I love the concept. If they had support from every major studio, it would be an easier sell for them I think, easier at least to the folks who can afford it biggrin.gif
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post #183 of 231 Old 09-29-2013, 08:57 PM
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I have fair bit of new data on it, seeing it at CEDIA:

1. The box and service work and work well. It is great to see a bunch of movies ready to play instantly locally from the hard disk. The fidelity on the few clips they showed seemed excellent.

2. Format is 10 bit, 4:2:2 so a step up from BD.

3. The box has dual drive redundancy.

4. Movies are pushed out 6-7 days in advance of release so there is plenty of time to get them landed onto the box.

5. They push all the new movies per #1 regardless of which one you may want.

6. When movie stops being in theaters, it disappears from the service. So no older movies.

7. Content security is way, way higher than anything in use today. You need to scan your fingerprint for the movie to play. Both the dealer and the customer must go through background checks to make sure they are not "IP infringers."

8. They have content from Universal, MGM and Lionsgate. They seemed hopeful about landing the other majors.

9. The retail for the box is $35,000. Movies are $500 for 24 hour viewing. THere is also a $600 offer for more time but I forget what.

10. The box requires a static IP.

11. The machine watermarks customer ID as it plays the content. So if you say, camcorder the content, they could find out.

12. You are not allowed to redistribute the HDMI output to multiple devices even though there is no hardware barrier to doing so.

13. Up to 5 members can access the machine.

14. There is a minimum limit of 100 inch for the screen and max of 25 seats. All viewing must be private.

15. You get the movie the instant it is available in US. As an example, they showed a movie that was released in NY but not yet in Denver where the show was.

All in all, for the customers for whom this kind of money is no object, it is a good option as allows you to watch the movie in your home rather than going to a theater.

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post #184 of 231 Old 09-30-2013, 02:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

I have fair bit of new data on it, seeing it at CEDIA:

1. The box and service work and work well. It is great to see a bunch of movies ready to play instantly locally from the hard disk. The fidelity on the few clips they showed seemed excellent.

2. Format is 10 bit, 4:2:2 so a step up from BD.

3. The box has dual drive redundancy.

4. Movies are pushed out 6-7 days in advance of release so there is plenty of time to get them landed onto the box.

5. They push all the new movies per #1 regardless of which one you may want.

6. When movie stops being in theaters, it disappears from the service. So no older movies.

7. Content security is way, way higher than anything in use today. You need to scan your fingerprint for the movie to play. Both the dealer and the customer must go through background checks to make sure they are not "IP infringers."

8. They have content from Universal, MGM and Lionsgate. They seemed hopeful about landing the other majors.

9. The retail for the box is $35,000. Movies are $500 for 24 hour viewing. THere is also a $600 offer for more time but I forget what.

10. The box requires a static IP.

11. The machine watermarks customer ID as it plays the content. So if you say, camcorder the content, they could find out.

12. You are not allowed to redistribute the HDMI output to multiple devices even though there is no hardware barrier to doing so.

13. Up to 5 members can access the machine.

14. There is a minimum limit of 100 inch for the screen and max of 25 seats. All viewing must be private.

15. You get the movie the instant it is available in US. As an example, they showed a movie that was released in NY but not yet in Denver where the show was.

All in all, for the customers for whom this kind of money is no object, it is a good option as allows you to watch the movie in your home rather than going to a theater.

Here's a pretty good article from Engadget with some other tidbits and pics...

http://www.engadget.com/2013/09/27/prima-cinema-eyes-on/
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post #185 of 231 Old 09-30-2013, 09:53 AM
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So requires a DCI projector then ?

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post #186 of 231 Old 09-30-2013, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

So requires a DCI projector then ?

Art
No. Just has simple HDMI output driving any consumer projector. They were showing it with DPI Titan.

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post #187 of 231 Old 09-30-2013, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by biliam1982 View Post

Here's a pretty good article from Engadget with some other tidbits and pics...

http://www.engadget.com/2013/09/27/prima-cinema-eyes-on/
Looks like they walked away with the same set of data. I forgot to say that the audio is uncompressed PCM 7.1. Not sure why they did not compress the audio losslessly other than licensing fee.

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post #188 of 231 Old 09-30-2013, 10:58 AM
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I could get past the $35K... the $500 a flick would be too much - especially since 70% of movies I watch are crap.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #189 of 231 Old 09-30-2013, 11:31 AM
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I could get past the $35K... the $500 a flick would be too much - especially since 70% of movies I watch are crap.

Yea, that seems to be a big big issue for just a few good films per year. I'd almost want to wait like I do now to see if it's even worth the two hours of my free time down the drain or not.

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post #190 of 231 Old 09-30-2013, 11:31 AM
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^
I agree. I'm not saying I could run out and put a Prima system in next week but I can get the high entry cost. But there's too many bombs these days coming out. However... If they had 100% studio cooperation, how cool would it be to see Episode IV in your own home theater opening day?


EDIT - of course I meant Episode VII.
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post #191 of 231 Old 09-30-2013, 01:24 PM
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I have fair bit of new data on it, seeing it at CEDIA:

14. There is a minimum limit of 100 inch for the screen

I don't get this one.

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post #192 of 231 Old 09-30-2013, 02:28 PM
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I don't get this one.

I don't either, so if you shelled out 40K for the Samsung 85inch 4K tv, I guess you can't get the Prima Cinema. Seems like an unnecessary requirement, especially since their goal is to limit the audience to less than 25 (common sense says a small screen will help limit the size of an audience)
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post #193 of 231 Old 09-30-2013, 02:55 PM
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Does this have DCI color space ?

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post #194 of 231 Old 09-30-2013, 02:58 PM
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No, from what I've been told it's still REC 709

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post #195 of 231 Old 09-30-2013, 03:09 PM
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I don't get this one.
I didn't either so I asked them smile.gif. They said it was a requirement by the studios that the experience be like a "real theater." They said they would make exceptions as they did for a famous person that had a 90 inch display and such.

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post #196 of 231 Old 09-30-2013, 04:55 PM
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Not sure if pricing has changed, but the $600 was supposed to be for 3D movies. Given the current state of 3D, perhaps they decided to apply that pricing to a longer viewing window?? In any case, a couple more studio's and I'll be bringing it in to my theatre (assuming I'm not on a "no-view" list somewhere:)).


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post #197 of 231 Old 09-30-2013, 04:59 PM
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Too many rules for what they are asking!

This is way out of my financial abilities, but even if it wasn't I would seriously look at the ever closing window between theatrical and BluRay release. Ok, so it's 422 10 bit. Is that worth $500 for a limited showing you don't get to keep?

Once the feature hits the market on a $29 BluRay, why can't the Prima Cinema owners keep their copies? It seem they are very well protected against piracy so what's the deal? Allowing users to buy the movie for $500 might just might make this work. Otherwise I just don't see the value except for a very few eccentric millionaires.

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post #198 of 231 Old 09-30-2013, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

No, from what I've been told it's still REC 709

As Clara Peller once said..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QCz9-ZV-HE

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post #199 of 231 Old 09-30-2013, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

Too many rules for what they are asking!

This is way out of my financial abilities, but even if it wasn't I would seriously look at the ever closing window between theatrical and BluRay release. Ok, so it's 422 10 bit. Is that worth $500 for a limited showing you don't get to keep?

Once the feature hits the market on a $29 BluRay, why can't the Prima Cinema owners keep their copies? It seem they are very well protected against piracy so what's the deal? Allowing users to buy the movie for $500 might just might make this work. Otherwise I just don't see the value except for a very few eccentric millionaires.

Now that's an idea they should consider. If I pay $500 and I only get one viewing, at least give me the higher quality Prima file the same day the disc is released. Why not?
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post #200 of 231 Old 09-30-2013, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by amirm View Post

I didn't either so I asked them smile.gif. They said it was a requirement by the studios that the experience be like a "real theater." They said they would make exceptions as they did for a famous person that had a 90 inch display and such.

Can't be that famous if they only have a 90" screen...

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post #201 of 231 Old 09-30-2013, 06:12 PM
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Or was that in the guest bathroom?

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post #202 of 231 Old 09-30-2013, 07:14 PM
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Why is it so important (> $450) to watch a movie a few months before it's released on BD?

The movie is the same. It doesn't change anything in your life. I can understand if money is no object but it sure seems ridiculous to me.

I must be living on the wrong planet.
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post #203 of 231 Old 09-30-2013, 07:41 PM
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I don't think it's "important," it's just a convenience. Some cannot. Some can, but think it's ridiculous. Some can, and are happy to have the convenience. In the end, if there aren't enough folks in the last category, it fails, but from what I'm hearing (unsupported by facts), sales are improving.




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post #204 of 231 Old 10-01-2013, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Looks like they walked away with the same set of data. I forgot to say that the audio is uncompressed PCM 7.1. Not sure why they did not compress the audio losslessly other than licensing fee.

The article does say "with lossless PCM or Dolby TrueHD audio". So it may depend on the studio to choose which audio option they'll support.

I haven't seen any talk about HFR or 4K coming. Did you get to ask about that?
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post #205 of 231 Old 10-01-2013, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Perfectionist2 View Post

Why is it so important (> $450) to watch a movie a few months before it's released on BD?

The movie is the same. It doesn't change anything in your life. I can understand if money is no object but it sure seems ridiculous to me.

I must be living on the wrong planet.

LOL!

I have that same argument frequently at home. Like may here I built an HT. The wife still likes to "go to the movies", I don't, cost, lines, recalcitrant teenagers. I argue we get a more comfortable experience at home with the dogs, allowed to drink alcohol, and often even a better technical presentation that at the multiplex.

"Well you don't have the current stuff". I say wait a month or two, it will be out on BluRay. "Well that's not current".

What difference does it make?

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post #206 of 231 Old 10-02-2013, 11:25 AM
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Seriously ,for you guys what is the biggest advantage in presentation that commecial digital theaters have over what you can see on your high end home set ups ? For me it's color. One can easily see the superior colors in the DCI presentation . Why would these guys only offer this in 709 ?

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post #207 of 231 Old 10-02-2013, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

Seriously ,for you guys what is the biggest advantage in presentation that commecial digital theaters have over what you can see on your high end home set ups ? For me it's color. One can easily see the superior colors in the DCI presentation . Why would these guys only offer this in 709 ?

Art

My guess is there system is built around HDTV hardware. Not only the product but also the distribution chain. I don't see any technical reason they couldn't run a DCI chain. The compression is less, a minimum of 50mbs so more storage is needed but that's easily handled at their price point - in fact no big deal at all today for the player hardware.

Studio piracy concerns? Push back from NATO? Other contractual issues? I don't see any technological issues especially at their price point.

BTW, does anyone know what compression technology they use? MPEG4? JPEG2000? Something proprietary? If they are concerned about piracy, using MPEG4 is a bad idea from that perspective.

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post #208 of 231 Old 10-02-2013, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

Seriously ,for you guys what is the biggest advantage in presentation that commecial digital theaters have over what you can see on your high end home set ups ? For me it's color. One can easily see the superior colors in the DCI presentation . Why would these guys only offer this in 709 ?

Art

I have no idea what sort of back room dealings went on for Prima, but working on the content creation side of things this choice (the rec 709 colorspace) really surprise me. Why in world not stick with P3 colorspace. I wonder if Prima is getting a separate DI delivery (which I cannot imagine) or maybe they just have a box that does a simple LUT / translation colorspace compression. When "movies" releases of this scale are done they are "mastered" for distribution as good old film (film out from dpx) and digitally as DCP.
Prima's 10 bit per channel is way more important to quality IMO so that is good, but with rec 709 some things are going to look different... As an example the crazy deep cyan colors in the ice passages in Pirates of the Caribbean 3 look different in rec 709..

The PR comment for " like a "real theater."" sounds a bit hollow IMO
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post #209 of 231 Old 10-02-2013, 11:55 PM
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I have no idea what sort of back room dealings went on for Prima, but working on the content creation side of things this choice (the rec 709 colorspace) really surprise me. Why in world not stick with P3 colorspace. I wonder if Prima is getting a separate DI delivery (which I cannot imagine) or maybe they just have a box that does a simple LUT / translation colorspace compression. When "movies" releases of this scale are done they are "mastered" for distribution as good old film (film out from dpx) and digitally as DCP.
Prima's 10 bit per channel is way more important to quality IMO so that is good, but with rec 709 some things are going to look different... As an example the crazy deep cyan colors in the ice passages in Pirates of the Caribbean 3 look different in rec 709..

The PR comment for " like a "real theater."" sounds a bit hollow IMO

It's no secret where they are getting the 10bit Rec709 version. When any feature is released the video version is usually done at the same time. If not there is at least a copy of the feature on videotape, these days that means HDCAM-SR which is a 440mbs 4:4:4 format. 4:2:2 is a simple playout function. That's what I believe Prima gets its deliverable from.

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post #210 of 231 Old 10-08-2013, 09:07 AM
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I didn't either so I asked them smile.gif. They said it was a requirement by the studios that the experience be like a "real theater." They said they would make exceptions as they did for a famous person that had a 90 inch display and such.

What else would they make an exception for? And what is their definition of famous?
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