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post #1 of 232 Old 12-08-2010, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...ilms-day-57831

Universal is an investor. At least their content will be available.
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post #2 of 232 Old 12-08-2010, 12:46 PM
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Love it! I guess we'll wait and see when things get fleshed out...

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post #3 of 232 Old 12-08-2010, 01:14 PM
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This has been widely talked about in the indusrty for some time now, mostly negatively. Interesting to see the ticket price has dropped substantially. This release is simply a speculative barometer for industry response rather that a genuine commitment to do meaningful business.

I like the idea very much, depending on technical details of the format, but I see a number of issues, 3 of which leap out at me.

1. They will not get sufficient content signatories to offer a viable service.

2. Exhibitor opposition

3. Many of their target audience are already serviced.

Asked to speculate on the possibility of this coming to fruition, I'd say not.

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post #4 of 232 Old 12-08-2010, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

This has been widely talked about in the indusrty for some time now, mostly negatively. Interesting to see the ticket price has dropped substantially. This release is simply a speculative barometer for industry response rather that a genuine commitment to do meaningful business.

This is a new effort and has enough funding from blue chip investors to start, at least with content from Universal and probably 2-3 other studios. It is not speculative at all and will happen. Their market potential estimate is much too high, but a lower number still results in a viable business.

It's not yet known whether this offering can include DCI content, but that would be an easy step provided that the customer has a DCI compliant system.
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post #5 of 232 Old 12-08-2010, 01:48 PM
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Assuming this does actually materialize, I'd be interested, but likely wouldn't jump until additional studios were onboard. The $20K/$500 offering is easier to take than the first offer I heard about last year.


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post #6 of 232 Old 12-08-2010, 01:49 PM
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This looks to be a very expensive outing. I think even moderately wealthy people would probably not pay such a high price for a money a month or two early. That being said never say never.

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post #7 of 232 Old 12-08-2010, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by odyssey View Post

It is not speculative at all and will happen.

Thats certainly not a universally held opinion in the industry, and if signatories are limited then its dead in the water.

Having said that, I really hope it comes to fruition.

Also, It absolutely does not involve the supply of DCI DCPs. However, I would expect something in excess of BD, akin to what was mooted previously.

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post #8 of 232 Old 12-08-2010, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
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The funding seems to be a done deal and supply of content from Universal is certain. They will start operation and will be in business for at least a few years. Whether they will continue depends on how well they do.

It is unlikely that DCI content is part of the initial package, but it is an obvious next step and is a possible solution to the piracy issue. Whether it's Prima Cinema or someone else, DCI content is coming. Progress with satellite distribution makes it very likely within two years.
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post #9 of 232 Old 12-08-2010, 09:19 PM
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These guys are the dvix guys, so definitely no dcp. Maybe this will stimulate Warner to get off their butt on their dci plan...
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post #10 of 232 Old 12-08-2010, 11:18 PM
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Tried researching a bit more without success. Their website is basically a mail drop. Personally, I'd like to know if you can decline a release. I'm willing to drop $20K, but will only pay for movies that interest me, and I could see a scenario where you are contracted to take every new release. The other question I have is do you own the content, if not, how many times can it be viewed? Can I put on onto a Server? Kaleidescape....?


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post #11 of 232 Old 12-08-2010, 11:22 PM
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I don't know the answer to most of your questions but can confidently say what you watch from them, will only come from their box. No way will you be able to move it to K or any other server. They would get zero content if they allowed that kind of access. The whole purpose of the $20K box is to be a locked down machine.

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post #12 of 232 Old 12-09-2010, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

I don't know the answer to most of your questions but can confidently say what you watch from them, will only come from their box. No way will you be able to move it to K or any other server. They would get zero content if they allowed that kind of access. The whole purpose of the $20K box is to be a locked down machine.


I agree that's probably the case. That makes it a very expensive pay-per-view.


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post #13 of 232 Old 12-09-2010, 02:59 PM
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if you go to that link, you will see at the bottom of the page that sony, and fox are both planning on their own. and paramount has said no way no how.

and this company thinks they will get a quarter million subscribers... as somebody who has worked in the ultra premium space (kaleidescape) this solution sounds to be a pipe dream.

the reality is that in the future, the studios will all want to control their own content. so we MAY see some sort of collaboration in the design of a box that they all approve of, but they will want the content control themselves in order to hold all the revenue they can.

and that is what will sink the whole thing.

just my thoughts.

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post #14 of 232 Old 12-09-2010, 03:03 PM
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one thing, there are elements to the K system that provide not just virtually unbreakable security... but watermarking of a kind that is extremely robust and able to identify on a pirate copy (filming the screen for example) WHOSE system it was filmed from.

this idea was K's original idea. they were then told... if you want to be taken seriously for the content... go get the subscribers...

so who knows...

again, i have been gone from there for almost 5 years, so i have no idea what they are doing at this point.

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post #15 of 232 Old 12-09-2010, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JlgLaw View Post

I agree that's probably the case. That makes it a very expensive pay-per-view.


Jim

Hi Jim,

In the more expensive proposal being discussed with one of the studios last year (you made reference to), the consumer could keep the dcp copy Key indefinitely. There was discussion of loading these into high capacity servers for access at any time.

I wonder how long can one keep the Prima Cinema viewing window open?
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post #16 of 232 Old 12-09-2010, 05:33 PM
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This is interesting.... the theaters have a digital delivery server systems and now someone wants to put it in the home... I guess it will work but not at that price , plus there will be a lot more encryption and digital watermarks in the content I can't wait to see it
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post #17 of 232 Old 12-09-2010, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JlgLaw View Post

Tried researching a bit more without success. Their website is basically a mail drop. Personally, I'd like to know if you can decline a release. I'm willing to drop $20K, but will only pay for movies that interest me, and I could see a scenario where you are contracted to take every new release. The other question I have is do you own the content, if not, how many times can it be viewed? Can I put on onto a Server? Kaleidescape....?


Jim

my bet is that the system will come with some type of role base access only to play the movie and it will automatically remove the movie after a few weeks or a month... the price could be based on how many times you play the movie... this would have a better chance of being successful if Kaleidescape was involved they already have a great base of install that I believe people would subscribe to this kind of service and they couold also give you the option to buy since it a closed system... just my thoughts coming out here ... been there and done that...
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post #18 of 232 Old 12-09-2010, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Hi Jim,

In the more expensive proposal being discussed with one of the studios last year (you made reference to), the consumer could keep the dcp copy Key indefinitely. There was discussion of loading these into high capacity servers for access at any time.

I wonder how long can one keep the Prima Cinema viewing window open?


Hi Peter, that's right and I remember discussing the (your) proposal with several friends and the decision to participate required:

1. At least four major studios supporting content.
2. Allowing a persistant copy of the content (stored as you indicated).
3. Reasonable cost structure, which frankly wasn't the case in that original proposal. I think it was the significant annual cost that caused the most grief. This new idea limits the initial outlay to $20K, which is acceptable to at least three of my friends (and me), BUT they need more studio support AND the persistant copy is still an as issue.



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post #19 of 232 Old 12-09-2010, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taker View Post

my bet is that the system will come with some type of role base access only to play the movie and it will automatically remove the movie after a few weeks or a month... the price could be based on how many times you play the movie... this would have a better chance of being successful if Kaleidescape was involved they already have a great base of install that I believe people would subscribe to this kind of service and they couold also give you the option to buy since it a closed system... just my thoughts coming out here ... been there and done that...



Could be. I agree, there could be an opportunity for K here, but given the current legal climate where K is concerned I doubt the studios would be interested. Then again, stranger things have happened....


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post #20 of 232 Old 12-11-2010, 02:29 PM
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For a single consumer that watches his movies alone on his flat panel, this is BORDERLINE RIDICULOUS.

However, I do see there is an advantage of using this service, and it makes sense. It is for people that want to make large (private) venue screenings without being on contract with either the theater chains or studios releasing the films. Selling tickets for about half or a thrid of the price for a first run movie will significantly increase audience attendance for YOU. For a local digital theater chain, this is an excellent idea, and you can actally keep the digital masters instead of burning them.
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post #21 of 232 Old 12-11-2010, 02:36 PM
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I am pretty confident the license would stipulate no public screening/selling tickets.

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post #22 of 232 Old 12-11-2010, 03:43 PM
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I am pretty confident the license would stipulate no public screening/selling tickets.

Yes he honor system
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post #23 of 232 Old 12-11-2010, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trogdor2010 View Post

For a single consumer that watches his movies alone on his flat panel, this is BORDERLINE RIDICULOUS.

However, I do see there is an advantage of using this service, and it makes sense. It is for people that want to make large (private) venue screenings without being on contract with either the theater chains or studios releasing the films. Selling tickets for about half or a thrid of the price for a first run movie will significantly increase audience attendance for YOU. For a local digital theater chain, this is an excellent idea, and you can actally keep the digital masters instead of burning them.

Maybe not on a Panny 4k 3d 158" plasma.
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post #24 of 232 Old 12-11-2010, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by taker View Post

Yes he honor system

What honor system? There are at least two good reasons to not do as suggested. For one thing, the whole service may get shut down if enough people violate it by selling tickets and such. And second, you better believe there will be pretty strict monitoring going on to make sure people don't try to pirate and/or sell tickets. So if one wants to cheat, this is not the system to do it with in my opinion .

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post #25 of 232 Old 12-13-2010, 01:41 PM
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I don't see any reasonable return on investment or return on risk for the studios. For what? a few hundred eventual installations? I'm sure the encryption will be robust, but a good camcorder could make an excellent pirate copy right off the projected image...far superior to those now taken surreptitiously in first-run theaters. This scheme will never succeed and will likely never get off the ground. Besides, any Hollywood insider that wants a copy of a first run movie can usually get it...as can The White House.
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post #26 of 232 Old 12-13-2010, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
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I don't see any reasonable return on investment or return on risk for the studios. For what? a few hundred eventual installations? I'm sure the encryption will be robust, but a good camcorder could make an excellent pirate copy right off the projected image...far superior to those now taken surreptitiously in first-run theaters. This scheme will never succeed and will likely never get off the ground. Besides, any Hollywood insider that wants a copy of a first run movie can usually get it...as can The White House.


Each owner whould get there stream with a diffferent watemark that the studio could then trace back to that owner if the movie get pirated the same way then do it in the movie theaters... the studio could then charge the owner a fee (very steep one ) for the movie that gets pirated.
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post #27 of 232 Old 12-13-2010, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
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.......Besides, any Hollywood insider that wants a copy of a first run movie can usually get it......


Yup, and you don't necessarily have to be an industry leader, just know the right people. A friend was able to forward several pre-release movies over the years. Funny, some still had the editing timer in the lower right corner ticking down throughout the movie. A bit distracting, but completely watchable (also had to return the disc after watching).

I'm someone that would likely buy into the service, but I'd like to see more studio support. I also agree with the rest of your post, I doubt this venture will survive, but fun to consider.


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post #28 of 232 Old 12-14-2010, 10:43 AM
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It's still a viable scam to attract investors. When it folds, some should walk away with a few bucks.
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post #29 of 232 Old 12-15-2010, 05:03 PM
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It would be very easy to "sell" tickets without actually charging admission. I remember when Barbara Streissand was giving a concert, people weren't actually selling the tickets but giving them away if you bought a pair of ballpoint pens for $3000.

Give me ten men like Clouseau, and I could destroy the world.
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post #30 of 232 Old 12-20-2010, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
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It would be very easy to "sell" tickets without actually charging admission. I remember when Barbara Streissand was giving a concert, people weren't actually selling the tickets but giving them away if you bought a pair of ballpoint pens for $3000.
That sounds vaguely like the woman who skated on a prostitution charge because she wasn't selling sex, she was selling condoms for $300 and giving buyers free lessons on how to use them.
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