Classe vs. Bryston power amps - need opinions - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 74 Old 12-26-2010, 11:21 AM - Thread Starter
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I am using an Audio Research LS17 Line Stage Preamplifier and want to know the best choice for a power amp to run two channels. Should I get two Classe CT-300 300 watt mono amps, or one Bryston 4B SSt2 C-Series 300 watt X 2 stereo power amp? Has anyone heard them both?

Classe CT-M300 300W Monaural Amplifier

http://www.classeaudio.com/ctseries/ct-m300.htm

Bryston 4B SST2 C-SERIES 300W Stereo amp

http://bryston.com/4bsst_m.html

Comments?
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post #2 of 74 Old 12-26-2010, 11:30 AM
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I really like Bryston. Sorry not listened to Classe in some time.

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post #3 of 74 Old 12-26-2010, 02:24 PM
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This Classe I think has an MSRP of $5,000 per channel

The Bryston I think lists for about $4,200 for the dual channel mono amp.

This alone is enough to make the decision for alot of people, if cost is any kind of a consideration.
The Classe will also be about 2x the size and weight.

Classe claims 300w @8 ohms and doubles right down to 600 @ 4
wheras the Bryston claims 300 @ 8 ohms but only 500 @ 4

Most people have nothing really bad to say about Bryston and of course their warrenty can always make you feel good and safe.

I think the Classe is a much more sophisticated piece of electronics and is technically more impressive.

Your ears will have to ultimately decide if there is any difference between the two and then decide if that difference is worth 2x the price and space to you.

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post #4 of 74 Old 12-26-2010, 02:57 PM
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Bryston has a little grit to their sound, no?
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post #5 of 74 Old 12-26-2010, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Bryston has a little grit to their sound, no?

grit? got dirt in it
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post #6 of 74 Old 12-26-2010, 03:33 PM
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a little harshness compared to a ML or krell or even some mosfet amps like ada, and B something or other...

grit the term is used....
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post #7 of 74 Old 12-26-2010, 04:32 PM
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I dont recall a gritty sound, but very clean. not sure the associated equip you listened with.
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post #8 of 74 Old 12-26-2010, 04:50 PM - Thread Starter
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I heard a Bryston years ago and thought it sounded a bit rough, but how can you really tell in a store. It might be cables, speakers, room acoustic, etc.

Have never heard the Classe, but it has the best reviews I could find. Is there a MOSFET solid state amp out there in the 200 to 300 watt range that would sound as good as the Classe at a better price? I like a smooth, mellow, glowing sound. That is why I got the Audio Research preamp.
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post #9 of 74 Old 12-26-2010, 04:56 PM
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Long long time ago in a galaxy far away I did this room with Cristopher Hansen, he put meyer speakers with bryston amps; my comment above was very kind to the amps.



Recently 3 years ago at CES I heard the speakers from Jim Thiel with Brystons, the grit was still there although the speaker was better, some people like their sound roaring, there are some Wilson speakers that also roar. I prefer a more ethereal sound emanation.
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post #10 of 74 Old 12-26-2010, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inky blacks View Post

I heard a Bryston years ago and thought it sounded a bit rough, but how can you really tell in a store. It might be cables, speakers, room acoustic, etc.

Have never heard the Classe, but it has the best reviews I could find. Is there a MOSFET solid state amp out there in the 200 to 300 watt range that would sound as good as the Classe at a better price? I like a smooth, mellow, glowing sound. That is why I got the Audio Research preamp.

I owned the classe 3200 for a short time, nice amp but not worth 6 grand


I replaced it with the nad masters m25, a lot of amp for the money.It has a very smooth sound to it.

check out spearitsound.com, they have refurbs for a good discount and are a brick and morter 30 years in business. I live 15 min from them
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post #11 of 74 Old 12-26-2010, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

a little harshness compared to a ML or krell or even some mosfet amps like ada, and B something or other...

grit the term is used....

Ah Ah! A bit of "True Grit" in amplifier sound? So the Brystons sound more like John Wayne or Jeff Bridges, whereas the Classe sound more like - Theta amps! HAAAA!!@@@@@

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #12 of 74 Old 12-26-2010, 07:12 PM
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Brystons... they sound like a 20 yr transferable warranty should sound.
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post #13 of 74 Old 12-26-2010, 10:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Well as far as looks go, I like the Marantz the best.

http://www.10audio.com/marantz_ma-9s2.htm

Several reviewers seem to think they sound as good as the best tube amps, but with more power. Would look good on the same shelf as the Audio Research preamp. I hate the Classe looks. I suspect the Marantz amps were designed by Western engineers like the TAD speakers.
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post #14 of 74 Old 12-27-2010, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inky blacks View Post

Well as far as looks go, I like the Marantz the best.

http://www.10audio.com/marantz_ma-9s2.htm

Several reviewers seem to think they sound as good as the best tube amps, but with more power. Would look good on the same shelf as the Audio Research preamp. I hate the Classe looks. I suspect the Marantz amps were designed by Western engineers like the TAD speakers.

When you started the tread, these weren''t even mentioned.

There are two designs of the amp with the best reviews that you've found and now suddenly, you hate them!
Well that was a waste of our time, how bout you just post the ones that you don't hate, so we can actually help a bit.
Make a list of what you don't hate of things we should actually consider.

If Classe is out I supoose the ML gear is out as well, too bad, the good ones are dropping like flies in this thread, probanly over their lookd no less!

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post #15 of 74 Old 12-27-2010, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inky blacks View Post

I am using an Audio Research LS17 Line Stage Preamplifier and want to know the best choice for a power amp to run two channels. Should I get two Classe CT-300 300 watt mono amps, or one Bryston 4B SSt2 C-Series 300 watt X 2 stereo power amp? Has anyone heard them both?

Classe CT-M300 300W Monaural Amplifier

http://www.classeaudio.com/ctseries/ct-m300.htm

Bryston 4B SST2 C-SERIES 300W Stereo amp

http://bryston.com/4bsst_m.html

Comments?

I certainly won't be qualified to make a recommendation myself, but for the enlightenment of those that are I would specify which speakers you are planning to drive with your amp. This strikes me as a more important parameter than choice of preamp.
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post #16 of 74 Old 12-27-2010, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

but for the enlightenment of those that are I would specify which speakers you are planning to drive with your amp. This strikes me as a more important parameter than choice of preamp.

I find nothing particularly wrong with choosing a piece of gear for the way it looks, it is often a consideration.
All other things being equal, you might just as well pick the one that strikes your fancy....all other things being equal

What I found a bit odd is that, he said he hates the way the Classe looked and I think the Bryston looks very much the same as the CT series. For amps with a very similar form factor, to my eyes, the CT looks better then the Bryston.
Enter the Marantz

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post #17 of 74 Old 12-27-2010, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbrother52 View Post

When you started the tread, these weren''t even mentioned.

There are two designs of the amp with the best reviews that you've found and now suddenly, you hate them!
Well that was a waste of our time, how bout you just post the ones that you don't hate, so we can actually help a bit.
Make a list of what you don't hate of things we should actually consider.

If Classe is out I suppose the ML gear is out as well, too bad, the good ones are dropping like flies in this thread, probably over their looked no less!

Lighten up. I don't hate the Classe, just their looks, which is of minor concern. I never said I hated the Bryston. I just said that I heard a Bryston a long time ago that sounded a little rough, and I said that only in response to others who criticized their sound. I said it might have been the room or cables. You are confusing the opinion of others with my opinions. I am open minded and just want the best deal.

The speakers I will be using will be VMPS RM V60s with two subwoofers. Looks like I will also get a Classe amp or two, unless someone here says the Marantz are great and I can get a big discount on them on the web. I think they are even more expensive than the Classe. The pro reviewers tend to like everything, so I ask for personal, nonprofit motive driven input.

http://www.vmpsaudio.com/RMV60.htm
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post #18 of 74 Old 12-27-2010, 09:46 AM
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Grit, harsh not that I can recall but I can't hear above 14K [14K is way down from 12K as far as my ear's sensitivity]

I liked the Bryston with Thiel and Dali that I listened to. Oh well.

Why not consider the McIntosh MC402, MC501 [monoblock] or Parasound JC1 [monoblock].

I ran the FACE AUDIO for some time too. A pro type [ala QSC and CROWN] amp but it impressed all that listened to it for a prolonged period.

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post #19 of 74 Old 12-27-2010, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inky blacks View Post

The speakers I will be using will be VMPS RM V60s with two subwoofers.

OK. so now we something to work with - you want to drive a pair of ribbon speakers with subs. Your ribbons will go down to 70Hz, and I presume you are looking at active subs, so the last bit of bass slam for your main amps will be less of a consideration, but the the specific amp needs of driving ribbons are. What I would do is post a question on audiogon and ask what amps folks have been using to succesfully drive ribbon monitors, used in conjunction with powered subs. This will get you far more meaningfull input than general comments on the merits of classe / bryston / marantz without this context.


Quote:
Originally Posted by inky blacks View Post

The pro reviewers tend to like everything

True statement. This is driving me nuts. Every other piece they hear is the best they have ever in their system, redering most professional reviews utterly useless.

By the way, I hate the champagne color of the marantz. Thanks God my ud9004 came in black.
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post #20 of 74 Old 12-27-2010, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inky blacks View Post

Lighten up. I don't hate the Classe,

I am as light as the two feet of snow that just stopped falling.
If I used many more emoticons in my last two posts, it would have read more like a comic book

I used Levinson electronics with Magnaplaner ribbons for quite a few years with what I thought was great success, if that is of any help.

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post #21 of 74 Old 12-27-2010, 11:49 AM
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I'm currently using Classe CT-M300 and I love them. Incredibly clean, powerful and very neutral. There is some advanced technology built into these bad boys as well (read about it). They're a little more than just a simple amp. The are designed to quickly reach their optimum operating temperature and stay there with an advanced cooling system. It's also one of the few amps out their with this kind of output that is truly rackmountable. Not to mention they integrate well with the Classe CT-SSP which us currently my favorite processor of all time.

Besides, if Peter say's the Bryston sounds harsh or gritty, I would take his word for it. He's only one of the best system integrators in the country...

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post #22 of 74 Old 12-27-2010, 12:10 PM
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I would like to hear the Parasound JC-1's. They also got good reviews. 25w class A, then 400/600/1200 into 8/4/2 ohms. $3000 each. http://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/774/

I agree, the CT series is ugly, but they're meant to be rack mounted. The Delta series was updated after the CT series came out. It looks like they took the guts of the CT amps and put it them in prettier delta boxes for people that want to use them in room.

Now all the amps now benefit from ICTunnel technology. The marketing reads like a scene out of Vanilla Sky when Tom Cruise gets his prosthetic facial shield. "ICTunnel - a microprocessor controlled technology inspired by the heatsinks found in high-power million dollar laser and medical equipment". Really? Because for a minute there, I thought we were talking about a %^&*ing FAN.

 

 

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post #23 of 74 Old 12-27-2010, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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If I get the Classe amps I will mount them behind the screen where no one will see them. I already contacted BG, the people who make the VMPS ribbons, and they say they like Classe.

I guess no one here has heard the Marantz. I will have to drive 75 miles to my nearest Classe dealer, but there is a Marantz dealer a mile from me. Unfortunately, he does not have the most expensive stuff in stock, so I would have to order without audition. So, I think I will go with Classe. I have never heard anyone who did not like Classe.
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post #24 of 74 Old 12-27-2010, 02:33 PM
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The 28B SST2 amps are terrific: effortless, clean, seamless, and completely grain free.

The last amps I liked as much were the VTL750 monoblocks in triode mode.
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post #25 of 74 Old 12-27-2010, 05:27 PM
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FWIW, I've worked on many Bryston 3B and 4B amps. While under warranty, most customers that we dealt with simply didn't want the downtime to ship the amp to Bryston and back, so we did the work locally in Vancouver.

Back then (1991 to 1995 when I owned the repair shop), Brystons were a well designed, well thought out amp. There was absolutely nothing within the amps that made them worth about $2200 retail CDN for the 4B though. I always thought that Bryston added $500-700 to the price of another typical comparable amp to cover the warranty.

Now, I had an old sales rep get in four 3Bs on trade on day, and he took two and I took two. They were about 18 1/2 years old. I tested mine and sold them on eBay. He sent his to Bryston, where they refurbished them. Since the amps were older, they did every mod/upgrade since the time they were made, changed the power switches, and called him to ask if for a very reasonable sum of money he wanted the two faceplates matched (his were nicotine stained as they came out of a bar), and they changed all the main filter caps.

Total price was $160 incl return shipping for both, sent back in factory original boxes, with the hand written spec sheet on top of each amp. He was tickled pink. Obviously the construction of the later Brystons are completely different than the older 4Bs, and I still find them a solid amp.

( I won't post how we took his amps and blind tested them against a $300 Korean made Inter M amp using an A/B switch, and how 2 out of 3 times he picked the Korean amp as sounding better...)

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post #26 of 74 Old 12-28-2010, 06:23 AM
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I replaced MBL 9010's with the Bryston 28 sst2's and have never looked back. they are driving MBL 101E's. No grit in my system, except on the floor, before it gets cleaned.
David

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post #27 of 74 Old 12-28-2010, 07:02 AM
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Those 28 appear to be great performers....
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post #28 of 74 Old 12-28-2010, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabident View Post

I would like to hear the Parasound JC-1's. They also got good reviews. 25w class A, then 400/600/1200 into 8/4/2 ohms. $3000 each.

$3000 was the MSRP in 2005 when I got 9 of them... I believe the list price is $4500/each today.

The JC-1 is an excellent amp if you can handle the heat...
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post #29 of 74 Old 12-28-2010, 01:13 PM
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I replaced MBL 9010's with the Bryston 28 sst2's and have never looked back. they are driving MBL 101E's. No grit in my system, except on the floor, before it gets cleaned.
David

I married a pair of 28B-SST2's to my Martin Logan CLX's and got stuck in the sweet spot for 8 hours. This is a marriage that will last for some time.

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post #30 of 74 Old 12-28-2010, 01:38 PM
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I've not heard a Classe amp in some time, but in my theater I have a Bryston 4B ST hooked up to a pair of Dunlavy SC-IVs, which are well known for being harshly revealing and accurate speakers. The Bryston has been awesome, and I've been very pleased with the sound, especially at reference levels.

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I married a pair of 28B-SST2's to my Martin Logan CLX's and got stuck in the sweet spot for 8 hours. This is a marriage that will last for some time.

Gary

Nice, I've always wanted to hear a pair of 28B's, they're definitely physical and electrical beasts.

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