Any one see the Lexicon MC-12HD replacement at CES? - Page 29 - AVS Forum
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post #841 of 1296 Old 06-03-2012, 02:16 AM
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Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

Yes, and six months takes us to before Xmas. (I still had to use two hands to do the math.)

It won't be six months. (I needed only one foot to count to six.)

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post #842 of 1296 Old 06-03-2012, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Just confirmed this today at T.H.E. Show in Newport Beach. For those not doing the math, nine months takes us past CES 2013.

Great! Hope they have it up and running which is my belief. That looks to be a good show to attend.

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post #843 of 1296 Old 06-03-2012, 09:16 AM
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I was also told that as a result of their video processor project being shelved, they (Lexicon) have reached an agreement with Lumagen. A visit to the Lexicon web site will show the Lumagen and speaks of the partnership. Certainly feels like they are now covering their bases for their next processor release.

We know how Lexicon typically matches all their components. With some of their components now being available in black, such as their new dd-8 digital amp and the Lumagen on the Lexicon web site is shown in black... I hope this is a sign that their next processor will be black. I know many here would prefer black, including me.

http://www.lexicon.com/News/Story/90
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post #844 of 1296 Old 06-04-2012, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post

I was also told that as a result of their video processor project being shelved, they (Lexicon) have reached an agreement with Lumagen. A visit to the Lexicon web site will show the Lumagen and speaks of the partnership.

In March, Harman became a worldwide distributor of Lumagen products. One of the smarter things they've done lately.
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Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post

With some of their components now being available in black, such as their new dd-8 digital amp and the Lumagen on the Lexicon web site is shown in black... I hope this is a sign that their next processor will be black.

From what I was told at CES, it will be black (which is specifically why they introduced the DD-8 in black). Besides, a black faceplate option has always been one of the biggest requests for the MC-12.

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post #845 of 1296 Old 06-06-2012, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Peter Nielsen View Post


It does make sense. Removing the functionality may result in a projection of fewer units sold. In effect, the projected per-unit development cost goes up.


Who pays for "internal losses" ? The internal loss fairy?


But lower production costs (without video processing) will (should!) mean lower retail prices and that will mean higher sales volume, not less. I know I am far more likely to buy a new Lexicon at $5K than $10K. Walmart's profit margin may be a fraction of Neiman Marcus but who makes more money overall? Not that I am comparing Lexicon to Walmart for heaven's sake, just reminding everyone of basic economic principles.

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post #846 of 1296 Old 06-10-2012, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by dsmith901 View Post

But lower production costs (without video processing) will (should!) mean lower retail prices and that will mean higher sales volume, not less. I know I am far more likely to buy a new Lexicon at $5K than $10K. Walmart's profit margin may be a fraction of Neiman Marcus but who makes more money overall? Not that I am comparing Lexicon to Walmart for heaven's sake, just reminding everyone of basic economic principles.

That makes a lot of sense and applies to most end-user gear that is easily available. However, does that logic also apply to boutique/dealer installed gear like the MC-12 and its follower? Lexicon should know, because they lowered the price of the MC-12. Did that result in a lot more sales or not? Is price even the determining factor, or is it more important for Lex to please its dealers and provide the feature set that the dealers need for their installs? cool.gif

What is it that Lexicon is trying to achieve? Is the goal a money-making best-selling high-end processor, or is the goal to provide Harman with a replacement for a product that is needed when selling systems like the high-end JBL Synthesis installations? It is very possible that regardless whatever reasonable price tag they set, sales will never make up for the development costs. (However, sales of complete systems will compensate and pay for it).
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post #847 of 1296 Old 06-12-2012, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Peter Nielsen View Post

That makes a lot of sense and applies to most end-user gear that is easily available. However, does that logic also apply to boutique/dealer installed gear like the MC-12 and its follower? Lexicon should know, because they lowered the price of the MC-12. Did that result in a lot more sales or not? Is price even the determining factor, or is it more important for Lex to please its dealers and provide the feature set that the dealers need for their installs? cool.gif
What is it that Lexicon is trying to achieve? Is the goal a money-making best-selling high-end processor, or is the goal to provide Harman with a replacement for a product that is needed when selling systems like the high-end JBL Synthesis installations? It is very possible that regardless whatever reasonable price tag they set, sales will never make up for the development costs. (However, sales of complete systems will compensate and pay for it).

Well, of course those are not mutually exclusive. But Harman/Lexicon is a for-profit company and so the bottom line is always top priority. As for Lex dropping the price on the MC-12 with no sales boost I think it means buyers recognized it was an outdated product being priced accordingly in a recessed economy to squeeze the last dollar out of the model before it's replacement was released. Buyers at that level want the latest and greatest, not yesterday's leftovers, no matter how good those leftovers sound. There was a time when Lexicon went for the "affordable" section of the high end market but with the release of the MC-12 they went whole-hog for the top of the market, yet even then they provided the MC-8/4 for buyers who were hooked originally with the MC-1. Not that the MC-8/4 were all that cheap, but compared to the absurdly priced competition (Theta, Levinson, Bel Canto) they were not unreasonable. Considering the deflationary pressures on the labor and supply markets these days I think Lexicon should be holding the line on prices with the next model, not inflating them as they originally proposed for the MP-20. If top end plasma TVs were marketed like high end processors the current 50" Panasonic VT-50 would cost $25,000, not $2,500.

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post #848 of 1296 Old 06-20-2012, 09:37 AM
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Headline: Harman sells Lexicon to Bose!

Just kidding (I hope). Just wanting to bump this thread and hope somebody has something to keep this thread simmering til the next audio expo.

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post #849 of 1296 Old 06-28-2012, 12:58 AM
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Did Lexicon make the last show in California ?

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post #850 of 1296 Old 06-29-2012, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

Did Lexicon make the last show in California ?

What show? I thought the next big show was in September at CEDIA?

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post #851 of 1296 Old 07-01-2012, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

Did Lexicon make the last show in California ?
I did not see Lexicon at the T.H.E. Show in Newport Beach.
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post #852 of 1296 Old 07-20-2012, 02:56 PM
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Burp! I mean Bump!

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post #853 of 1296 Old 07-21-2012, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by John Schneider View Post

I did not see Lexicon at the T.H.E. Show in Newport Beach.
Ok. Guess we'll have to wait a bit longer to see the prototype.

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post #854 of 1296 Old 07-23-2012, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

Ok. Guess we'll have to wait a bit longer to see the prototype.


I don't think "prototype" is the right term to use now - they already had their "prototype" shown last year. All they had to do now was remove the video processing and slap it back together (LOL). The next big show is CEDIA in September 5-8 in Indy, so hopefully they will show something close to production there.

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post #855 of 1296 Old 07-23-2012, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by dsmith901 View Post

All they had to do now was remove the video processing and slap it back together (LOL).
I wish. The reps at CES told me that they were using this as an opportunity to redesign from the ground up (ugh!) rather than release a platform that was designed over 4 years ago. I understand why they're doing it (technology has changed in the last half-decade), even if I don't like the added wait. Removing the video processors and slapping it back together would have been the quicker/easier route.
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The next big show is CEDIA in September 5-8 in Indy, so hopefully they will show something close to production there.
From what I was told at T.H.E. Show, there won't be anything at CEDIA (not even news), but the Harman truck might be at CES so that folks can hear QuantumLogic processing and ARCOS room correction first hand (as they did at CEDIA last year).

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post #856 of 1296 Old 07-24-2012, 07:54 PM
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Harman Luxury Group will be at CEDIA (1805,Chamber-Westin,Council-Westin) with Lexicon listed.  No word on what will be shown.


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post #857 of 1296 Old 07-25-2012, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Harman Luxury Group will be at CEDIA (1805
,
Chamber-Westin
,
Council-Westin
) with Lexicon listed.  No word on what will be shown.



Thanks, Kal. Is it safe to say you will attend?

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post #858 of 1296 Old 07-25-2012, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

I wish. The reps at CES told me that they were using this as an opportunity to redesign from the ground up (ugh!) rather than release a platform that was designed over 4 years ago. I understand why they're doing it (technology has changed in the last half-decade), even if I don't like the added wait. Removing the video processors and slapping it back together would have been the quicker/easier route. From what I was told at T.H.E. Show, there won't be anything at CEDIA (not even news), but the Harman truck might be at CES so that folks can hear QuantumLogic processing and ARCOS room correction first hand (as they did at CEDIA last year).

Understandable I suppose, but now I am afraid that this will also result in a higher, not a lower, msrp. Guess I'm gonna need a bigger piggy bank! :mad.gif

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post #859 of 1296 Old 07-25-2012, 08:33 AM
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Guess I'm gonna need a bigger piggy bank! :mad.gif
Given how quickly things are happening, you'll have plenty of time to fill it up with pennies biggrin.gif.
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post #860 of 1296 Old 07-25-2012, 02:42 PM
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I keep forgetting HDMI org said at CES 2012 (link) that their "target release date of the next version of the HDMI specification is the second half of 2012". As the (future) Lexicon MC-12HD replacement seems likely intended to remain a 'best of breed' movie audio processor for some number of years, I'd expect the product release to include details about it already meets and|or plans to meet any relevant standards expected to take effect in the next year or so.

Hard to do that 'today' without an announced HDMI Standard 2.0 in hand! cool.gif
_

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post #861 of 1296 Old 07-28-2012, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

I keep forgetting HDMI org said at CES 2012 (link) that their "target release date of the next version of the HDMI specification is the second half of 2012". As the (future) Lexicon MC-12HD replacement seems likely intended to remain a 'best of breed' movie audio processor for some number of years, I'd expect the product release to include details about it already meets and|or plans to meet any relevant standards expected to take effect in the next year or so.
Hard to do that 'today' without an announced HDMI Standard 2.0 in hand! cool.gif
_

I think at this point HDMI is more about video than audio, so unless Lexicon is again planning to include a SOTA video processor in the main unit then I doubt the HDMI standard will be critical. They will want it to switch HDMI pass-through without any hiccups even if a VP is not included, but I would expect any new HDMI standard to be backward compatible.

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post #862 of 1296 Old 07-28-2012, 10:57 AM
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What comes after "So Old" when it comes to Lexicon BS about the MC-12 replacement?
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post #863 of 1296 Old 07-29-2012, 08:23 AM
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Here's some interesting dirt- All Lexicon amplifiers will now be manufactured by ATI, at the main So Cal ATI facility. Same place that makes Theta gear. I would consider this good news for Lexicon.


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post #864 of 1296 Old 07-29-2012, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by k_lewis View Post

All Lexicon amplifiers will now be manufactured by ATI
Now? ATI has been making Lexicon's amps since 2006. (The exception being the DD-8 digital amp, which is made by Crown.)

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post #865 of 1296 Old 07-30-2012, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Now? ATI has been making Lexicon's amps since 2006. (The exception being the DD-8 digital amp, which is made by Crown.)

I would add that the old Lexicon NT series amplifiers were manufactured by Bryston.

Lexicon even stated this fact in their user guide for the NT amplifiers:

Acknowledgements
The Lexicon NT Series amplifiers are custom manufactured for Lexicon by Bryston Ltd. of Ontario, Canada.


http://www.lexicon.com/downloads/products/prod_169_634697498347311970_NT_Series_User_Guide_Rev0.pdf
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post #866 of 1296 Old 07-30-2012, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

I wish. The reps at CES told me that they were using this as an opportunity to redesign from the ground up (ugh!) rather than release a platform that was designed over 4 years ago. I understand why they're doing it (technology has changed in the last half-decade), even if I don't like the added wait. Removing the video processors and slapping it back together would have been the quicker/easier route. From what I was told at T.H.E. Show, there won't be anything at CEDIA (not even news), but the Harman truck might be at CES so that folks can hear QuantumLogic processing and ARCOS room correction first hand (as they did at CEDIA last year).

Uhh so what 2 more years before this thing is buyable by us normal humans? Harmon needs to realize the more time taken the less interest.
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post #867 of 1296 Old 07-30-2012, 01:18 PM
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For a few thousand more than the cost of an MC-12 or MC-12 replacement (and I wouldn't hold my breath on that) you can get a Datasat RS20i that does more, sounds better, and is somewhat future-proof via expansion slots. Plus you get world-class EQ capabilities in the process.
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post #868 of 1296 Old 07-30-2012, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by b curry View Post

I would add that the old Lexicon NT series amplifiers were manufactured by Bryston.
Right, hence my saying "since 2006". With their earlier series of processors (DC-1, DC-2, MC-1), Bryston made the amps. After the MC-12 was released, Crown made the amps for Lexicon. Around the time of the MC-12HD, the amps switched over to ATI. Weird that Harman went with an outside company rather than their own subsidiary (Crown). That musta been some smokin' deal that ATI offered them!

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post #869 of 1296 Old 07-30-2012, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post

For a few thousand more than the cost of an MC-12 or MC-12 replacement (and I wouldn't hold my breath on that) you can get a Datasat RS20i that does more, sounds better, and is somewhat future-proof via expansion slots. Plus you get world-class EQ capabilities in the process.
There is a segment of Lexicon owners that buy surround processors for the surround processing. As good as the RS20i might be, it just doesn't have the capabilities of the proprietary surround processing in current Lex pre-pros, let alone what their upcoming surround processing is capable of. Same with the room correction: ARCOS has pre-EQ and post-EQ steps not found in other room correction systems, like Dirac.

Whether the Datasat "does more, sounds better" than the current or upcoming Lex is subjective, based on your needs and personal tastes. So it's not a question of one pre-pro being better or worse than the other; some Lex owners are waiting for the MC-12 replacement because the Datasat doesn't give them the capabilities they want.
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post #870 of 1296 Old 08-01-2012, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Harman Luxury Group will be at CEDIA (1805
,
Chamber-Westin
,
Council-Westin
) with Lexicon listed.  No word on what will be shown.



What we do know is that what will be shown, if anything, will bear some relationship to Harman's penchant for risk-taking--and I see very little risk-taking at what we traditionally considered the high end in audio and home theater. It's not just true of Lexicon, but virtually all of them.

Back in the day, Harman was worth three times more than it is now. That was when it seemed, to me anyway, that Harman was the perfect company for high end audio. While it is worth four times more than what it plummeted to from those points, I would expect conservative philosophy in risk taking. I would not be surprised to see nothing new at all. Even when we were briefly tantalized with the replacement to the MC-12, it seemed quite underwhelming. When you consider what Harman said it was going to charge for it, you realize that Harman is hedging its bets to the extreme, at least in terms of taking a risk that it might lose money with a new product release.

Growth and "evolution" are difficult concepts to apprehend while we move ahead in our lives. The adage that "trees don't grow to the sky" has meaning in the investment world. Harman's primary concern is its investment value. That is a far different thing than the values of the audiophile.

Thanks,

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