Any one see the Lexicon MC-12HD replacement at CES? - Page 34 - AVS Forum
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post #991 of 1296 Old 09-18-2012, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

What Raul said. Roughly 75% of Harman's income is from automotive systems. Lexicon will likely make more money from their deals with Ferrari and Hyundai than any consumer processor they could ever come up with. Not to mention their entire pro/studio division, which has been their bread & butter for over 40 years. Don't know if/when a new pre-pro is coming, but the brand itself isn't going anywhere.

I guess you guys are completely missing my point

If you want a lexicon consumer pre\pro, amp etc the Lexicon brand is completely dead

But hey if you want to buy a Ferrari I guess you are in luck .

Lexicon as we know it is dead, maybe they will simply become a high end car audio maker? But they certainly are not acting like a consumer home audio company and time is of the essence for them to remain in this market. Home Audio is how most of us came to know the Lexicon brand in the first place.
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post #992 of 1296 Old 10-04-2012, 12:39 PM
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Does anyone know what the JBL Synthesis SDP-45 will have that the SDP-40 does not? Any chance it will internally process lossless audio codecs? If so, that alone would make it very attractive to me. In fact, assuming the SDP-45 is still based on the Lexicon chassis, it would be a no-brainer for Lexicon to also come out with a MC-12+ that does the same.

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post #993 of 1296 Old 10-04-2012, 12:56 PM
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It was a clever idea to title this thread "Any one see the Lexicon MC-12HD replacement at CES?"

This way we can continue to use the same thread after CES 2013, CES 2014, etc... biggrin.gif
_

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post #994 of 1296 Old 10-04-2012, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by dsmith901 View Post

Does anyone know what the JBL Synthesis SDP-45 will have that the SDP-40 does not? Any chance it will internally process lossless audio codecs?
It is a rebadged Bryston SP3 so it will decode lossless audio formats internally.
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post #995 of 1296 Old 10-05-2012, 03:02 AM
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Surprised to know that as JBL has been using Lexicon Processors and this time around JBL are going for Bryston.
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post #996 of 1296 Old 10-05-2012, 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

It was a clever idea to title this thread "Any one see the Lexicon MC-12HD replacement at CES?"
This way we can continue to use the same thread after CES 2013, CES 2014, etc... biggrin.gif
_

A SPOT ON post.
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post #997 of 1296 Old 10-05-2012, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

It is a rebadged Bryston SP3 so it will decode lossless audio formats internally.

Thanks for the info. I like Bryston; I owned a SP-1 years ago and liked it's overall sound though not it's limited functionality and it's lack (at the time) of DPLII, which was important to me. Now this news make me wonder if JBL has given up on their Lexicon brothers, as many here have. The scary part is they should certainly have inside info none of us do. Not good news, IMO. At the very least it probably means a new Lex model is now years away rather than months. I wish Harman/Lexicon would make a statement either that Lex home consumer is dead so we can all move on to Bryston, JBL, Datasat or elsewhere, or give us a strong assurance that a new SOTA Lex model is still in the works, and not leave us hanging. OTOH, they may not know themselves, which is not good, and explains the JBL current move to Bryston.

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post #998 of 1296 Old 10-05-2012, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by dsmith901 View Post

Thanks for the info. I like Bryston; I owned a SP-1 years ago and liked it's overall sound though not it's limited functionality and it's lack (at the time) of DPLII, which was important to me. Now this news make me wonder if JBL has given up on their Lexicon brothers, as many here have. The scary part is they should certainly have inside info none of us do. Not good news, IMO. At the very least it probably means a new Lex model is now years away rather than months. I wish Harman/Lexicon would make a statement either that Lex home consumer is dead so we can all move on to Bryston, JBL, Datasat or elsewhere, or give us a strong assurance that a new SOTA Lex model is still in the works, and not leave us hanging. OTOH, they may not know themselves, which is not good, and explains the JBL current move to Bryston.
Let me just say that we should not speculate this way smile.gif. I hope people know that Lexus and Toyota are the same company and in this regard, Lexicon is a brand just like Lexus is. So it kind of doesn't make sense to say JBL got or didn't get something from Lexicon. Indeed the quantum logic work was core research done for automotive division for the LFA and is not a "Lexicon" thing.

I think it is great news that high-end companies are collaborating to get HDMI based solutions. Without increasing their volume that way, they simply do not stand a chance to get proper support from silicon vendors and with it, ability to build highly reliable products that track the evolution of that standard.

The main innovations from Harman released as part of Lexicon brand is in audio and it is my hope that we will see those released in the future. BTW, we are deploying a ton of Lexicon DD-8 amps so the brand and name is quite active in the custom electronics in that efficient and very compact amplifier.

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post #999 of 1296 Old 10-05-2012, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsmith901 View Post

I wish Harman/Lexicon would make a statement either that Lex home consumer is dead so we can all move on to Bryston, JBL, Datasat or elsewhere, or give us a strong assurance that a new SOTA Lex model is still in the works, and not leave us hanging.
Making statements is what got the new Lexicon in trouble, so don't expect more from them. As has been mentioned before, they found out the hard way why the old Lexicon never EVER talked about an upcoming product (let alone display a prototype) until it was ready to ship. As for moving on, why are people waiting for Lexicon's permission? If you see a pre-pro you like, that has features you want, then why not just get it? Plenty of former Lexicon owners already have.

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post #1000 of 1296 Old 10-06-2012, 05:22 AM
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[quote name="sdurani" url="As for moving on, why are people waiting for Lexicon's permission? If you see a pre-pro you like, that has features you want, then why not just get it? Plenty of former Lexicon owners already have.[/quote]

People just want to know what is going on with Lexicon.
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post #1001 of 1296 Old 10-06-2012, 04:23 PM
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I think a better thread title would be welcome to the Lexicon withdrawal support group.

Hi my name is....... and I'm a recovering Lexicon user lol!biggrin.gif
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post #1002 of 1296 Old 10-06-2012, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakuma View Post

People just want to know what is going on with Lexicon.
If that was the case, then they would ask questions. Instead, they make pronouncements:
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Originally Posted by Sakuma View Post

So no replacement for lexicon MC12HD again, I guess it is time to move on, Lexicon is probably dead.
Strange pathology, declaring Lexicon dead while simultaneously just wanting to know what is going on with Lexicon, saying it's time to move on while simultaneously unable to do so yourself. I can understand waiting for a new processor from Lex, like I am, because it is worth waiting for unique features you can't get elsewhere. I can understand moving on, since I've encouraged many Lex owners to do, since it wasn't worth the wait for them. What I don't get is wanting to do both at the same time.

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post #1003 of 1296 Old 10-07-2012, 07:12 AM
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Sanjay,
I used word "probably dead" didn't declare no one dead, and did you not find any encouragment to other and for myself in these words "guess time to move on". There nothing wrong keeping an eye out for new products. And I have moved on few times and again recently, Please chill out my Respectful Friend.smile.gif
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post #1004 of 1296 Old 10-07-2012, 10:35 PM
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I used word "probably dead" didn't declare no one dead, and did you not find any encouragment to other and for myself in these words "guess time to move on".
If that's your way of 'just wanting to know what's going on', then something must be lost in translation.
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Please chill out my Respectful Friend.smile.gif
I assure you, I am completely chilled when when posting here.

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post #1005 of 1296 Old 10-08-2012, 06:57 AM
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I was giving you a general idea and you are mixing up my other comment even those were misunderstood. Glad that You are completely chilled out while posting I hope that you are chilled when you read others comment.
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post #1006 of 1296 Old 10-10-2012, 11:09 AM
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Surprised to know that as JBL has been using Lexicon Processors and this time around JBL are going for Bryston.

Just more evidence that Lexicon is going way to slow. JBL has been re branding Lexicon for their high end synthesis systems for 15 years or more. Sad

Also to respond to amir, sanjay and some others here is it REALLY that surprising that long time Lexicon owners may be wondering WTF is going on? We have not heard anything since the MP20 disaster which in and of itself was going to be late to market.

A simple

Hello Lexicon users we are still developing future consumer grade home audio processors and will give you more information around this time etc. etc. would suffice thank you for your patience.

I mean if JBL is switching to another pre\pro to re-badge and Lexicon is completely silent I do not think it is an assumption to question Lexicon's long term plan for home consumer audio.
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post #1007 of 1296 Old 10-11-2012, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by swanlee View Post

I mean if JBL is switching to another pre\pro to re-badge and Lexicon is completely silent I do not think it is an assumption to question Lexicon's long term plan for home consumer audio.
Except you're not questioning Lexicon's long term plan for home consumer audio:
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Originally Posted by swanlee View Post

If you want a lexicon consumer pre\pro, amp etc the Lexicon brand is completely dead
What is it about Lexicon that keeps you questioning the long term plans of a "completely dead" brand? If JBL is moving on, why aren't you?

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post #1008 of 1296 Old 10-11-2012, 05:38 AM
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Except you're not questioning Lexicon's long term plan for home consumer audio: What is it about Lexicon that keeps you questioning the long term plans of a "completely dead" brand? If JBL is moving on, why aren't you?

Cause there is no equivalent to replace my MC-8B besides an MC-12B HD.

What is out there that has a Logic7 like DSP and is modern and is aimed at the high end? At this point if I could find something that meets my needs fully I would move on. I still don't think any of the generic Dolby DSP algorithms have caught up to logic7.

It is frustrating that Lexicon won't license this technology off so other companies that can actually deliver on consumer high end hardware can use it. If Lexicon is not going to actually put out a product we can use what good is all this proprietary technology that they hold?

I've been a Lexicon owner for over 10 years and am very disappointed in the company now and would at least like some type of information as to what is going on with them. Is that to much to ask for?

All the evidence we have right now is they are effectively dead to the home consumer, I would like to be proven wrong but until Lexicon steps up and actually says something that will be hard to do.

Why is this concept so hard to understand?

Company makes a product that is hard to replace 1 to 1, Company disappears and goes years and years without releasing a new product, customers wonder WTF is going on?

Pretty simple concept here.
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post #1009 of 1296 Old 10-11-2012, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Except you're not questioning Lexicon's long term plan for home consumer audio: What is it about Lexicon that keeps you questioning the long term plans of a "completely dead" brand? If JBL is moving on, why aren't you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by swanlee View Post

Cause there is no equivalent to replace my MC-8B besides an MC-12B HD.
What is out there that has a Logic7 like DSP and is modern and is aimed at the high end? At this point if I could find something that meets my needs fully I would move on. I still don't think any of the generic Dolby DSP algorithms have caught up to logic7.
It is frustrating that Lexicon won't license this technology off so other companies that can actually deliver on consumer high end hardware can use it. If Lexicon is not going to actually put out a product we can use what good is all this proprietary technology that they hold?
I've been a Lexicon owner for over 10 years and am very disappointed in the company now and would at least like some type of information as to what is going on with them. Is that to much to ask for?
All the evidence we have right now is they are effectively dead to the home consumer, I would like to be proven wrong but until Lexicon steps up and actually says something that will be hard to do.
Why is this concept so hard to understand?
Company makes a product that is hard to replace 1 to 1, Company disappears and goes years and years without releasing a new product, customers wonder WTF is going on?
Pretty simple concept here.

I agree with Sanjay. How old is you MC-8?? Son't believe that because a product you desire doesn't exist that you should wait. You should've picked up a used MC-12B HD a few years ago (or even today). There are many good SSPs out there but pining for vaporware is wasting your time and extending sub-standard audio in your theater with your dated MC-8. If I'm not mistaken, the MC-8 is 15 years old, analog multichannel and certainly no HDMI... no offense, it's well into dated, garbage status at this point.

I've said it here for years now. Buy now, wait later. THere's always time to wait but why stay lo-fi in the mean time?

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post #1010 of 1296 Old 10-11-2012, 08:07 AM
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I agree with Sanjay. How old is you MC-8?? Son't believe that because a product you desire doesn't exist that you should wait. You should've picked up a used MC-12B HD a few years ago (or even today). There are many good SSPs out there but pining for vaporware is wasting your time and extending sub-standard audio in your theater with your dated MC-8. If I'm not mistaken, the MC-8 is 15 years old, analog multichannel and certainly no HDMI... no offense, it's well into dated, garbage status at this point.
I've said it here for years now. Buy now, wait later. There's always time to wait but why stay lo-fi in the mean time?

Great, so Logic 7 is there any replacement? Yes\No and if so what is it? If not then you have the reason why I have not moved on. My main use for the MC-8B is analog music with Logic 7 laid on top of that. I might be tempted by something current if there was something that approached my use of Logic 7.

Also the main point here is what is going on with Lexicon? A former main player in the High end Consumer audio market has gone dormant and the latest thing we heard from them was the failed attempt at the MP-20 and since that failure we have not heard one word on the status of a new Consumer level Pre\Pro.

It is very dis concerning.
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post #1011 of 1296 Old 10-11-2012, 11:23 AM
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Why is this concept so hard to understand?
Because you're doing two things at the same time: declaring the brand "completely dead" and simultaneously wanting to know their long range plans; asthough "completely dead" companies have future plans, long range or otherwise.

If you're holding out for newer proprietary surround processing from Lexicon, like I am, that makes sense. If you believe Lexicon is dead, based on delays and lack of communication, then that makes sense. What doesn't make sense is doing both at the same time.

If you really are waiting for the next Lex processor and/or want to know what's going on with the company, why the urge to repeatedly declare them "dead" in the mean time? I feel like I'm back in grade school watching someone lash out at a girl they have a crush on, telling people she's dead to you while simulaneously complaining that she won't talk to you.

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post #1012 of 1296 Old 10-11-2012, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by swanlee View Post

Cause there is no equivalent to replace my MC-8B besides an MC-12B HD. What is out there that has a Logic7 like DSP and is modern and is aimed at the high end?
It depends on your definition of "equivalent." According to this PR, the MC-20 would not be equivalent to the MC-8, it will be quite different. Apart from having HDMI switching and support for HD codecs, it will not have Logic7. That is being replaced by Quantum Logic, and it will sound quite different.
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At this point if I could find something that meets my needs fully I would move on.
There are several modern high-end units out there, like the new Bryston SP3, the Classe SSP-800, Anthem D2v, etc. Have you given any of these a serious trial?
Quote:
I still don't think any of the generic Dolby DSP algorithms have caught up to logic7.
The Dolby PLIIx algorithm is no more generic than Logic7. Each was developed by long-time experts in the field (Greisinger, Fosgate), each bringing their own philosophies and decades of experience to the task. They sound different. QLS also sounds different. As to which you prefer, that is something only you can answer. You might want to give PLIIx another try while you wait for QLS.
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It is frustrating that Lexicon won't license this technology off so other companies that can actually deliver on consumer high end hardware can use it.
You wouldn't want it to become "generic" would you? rolleyes.gif

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post #1013 of 1296 Old 10-11-2012, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Because you're doing two things at the same time: declaring the brand "completely dead" and simultaneously wanting to know their long range plans; asthough "completely dead" companies have future plans, long range or otherwise.
If you're holding out for newer proprietary surround processing from Lexicon, like I am, that makes sense. If you believe Lexicon is dead, based on delays and lack of communication, then that makes sense. What doesn't make sense is doing both at the same time.
If you really are waiting for the next Lex processor and/or want to know what's going on with the company, why the urge to repeatedly declare them "dead" in the mean time? I feel like I'm back in grade school watching someone lash out at a girl they have a crush on, telling people she's dead to you while simulaneously complaining that she won't talk to you.

Based on the evidence today I believe they are dead, I would like to be proven wrong. That is why I'm still talking about Lexicon. Their death is pretty much staring us in the face but like all things we like and enjoy and have used for years we would like to know for sure. This is why the silence from Lexicon is pretty much the WORST thing they can do at this point. A 5 minute statement could eleviate this issue. I'm angry at Lexicon and want to express that. They could do something just to let us know they are still alive and working on something.

This limbo stuff is bad, it is human nature to want some type of conclusion or defining statement as to WTF is going on.

My audio requirements for the way I use my system involve something that works like logic 7. That is why I bought a Lexicon in the first place. My first Lexicon was an MC-1. At this point I don't even care if it is Logic7 or Lexicon's new algorithm. just would like something that works like it that has all the features of a new Pre\Pro. Another reason I'm in this thread talking to other Lexicon users, I'm trying to see if they have found a valid replacement.

Is their anything out right now that can replace Logic7? Anything at all?

I'm not going to jump yet on an MC-12 until a new model is announced. The prices for used MC-12's will probably fall even more when a new model is announced. I know from a budget standpoint I'm probably going to always be one generation behind the flag ship but them not releasing ANYTHING new in years eventually effects me.


I'm stuck and ticked off and would simply like some answers on what is going on with Lexicon.
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post #1014 of 1296 Old 10-11-2012, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

It depends on your definition of "equivalent." According to this PR, the MC-20 would not be equivalent to the MC-8, it will be quite different. Apart from having HDMI switching and support for HD codecs, it will not have Logic7. That is being replaced by Quantum Logic, and it will sound quite different.
There are several modern high-end units out there, like the new Bryston SP3, the Classe SSP-800, Anthem D2v, etc. Have you given any of these a serious trial?
The Dolby PLIIx algorithm is no more generic than Logic7. Each was developed by long-time experts in the field (Greisinger, Fosgate), each bringing their own philosophies and decades of experience to the task. They sound different. QLS also sounds different. As to which you prefer, that is something only you can answer. You might want to give PLIIx another try while you wait for QLS.
You wouldn't want it to become "generic" would you? rolleyes.gif

I accept QLS as a better version of Logic7, simply based on Lexicon's previous equipment, I've not heard QLS and only a select few have and that is part of the problem. But i'm going to give Lexicon the benefit of the doubt and based on the few reviews of how it sounds I'm pretty excited by it. I consider Dolbly PLX to be generic when compared to Logic 7. Maybe a bad use of words but to me logic 7 is in a much high class of DSP then anything I have heard from Dolby

Will QLS ever be in a consumer product? You say "while I wait for QLS" the wait would be infinitely easier if we had any idea if it will ever be used in a consumer product. And since Lexicon is not licensing out QLS or Logic 7 the only place to get that would be in another Lexicon pre\pro

I've looked into Bryston SP3, the Classe SSP-800, Anthem D2v, but as stated none of them seem to offer anything of the same class as Logic 7 or QLS.

Is it really to much to ask for Lexicon to let us know they are still in business?
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post #1015 of 1296 Old 10-11-2012, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by swanlee View Post

I accept QLS as a better version of Logic7, simply based on Lexicon's previous equipment, I've not heard QLS and only a select few have and that is part of the problem. But i'm going to give Lexicon the benefit of the doubt and based on the few reviews of how it sounds I'm pretty excited by it. I consider Dolbly PLX to be generic when compared to Logic 7. Maybe a bad use of words but to me logic 7 is in a much high class of DSP then anything I have heard from Dolby
Will QLS ever be in a consumer product? You say "while I wait for QLS" the wait would be infinitely easier if we had any idea if it will ever be used in a consumer product. And since Lexicon is not licensing out QLS or Logic 7 the only place to get that would be in another Lexicon pre\pro
I've looked into Bryston SP3, the Classe SSP-800, Anthem D2v, but as stated none of them seem to offer anything of the same class as Logic 7 or QLS.
Is it really to much to ask for Lexicon to let us know they are still in business?

You are a a very, very patient man.smile.gif

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post #1016 of 1296 Old 10-11-2012, 12:52 PM
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I have never heard logic 7, but I am blown away by Ada quad bypass. This is just awesome for 2 channel music. I feed my crm4 from a linn akds/1 into quad bypass. I love it. Leaps and bounds better than pl2x. Ada also have AGL enhanced which is similar to pl2x and IMO more geared towards movies and tv work rather than music.

I am interested to hear logic 7 now. Perhaps when I get my datasat rs20i I may add an old lexicon for logic 7 or an old Ada.
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post #1017 of 1296 Old 10-11-2012, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post

I have never heard logic 7, but I am blown away by Ada quad bypass. This is just awesome for 2 channel music. I feed my crm4 from a linn akds/1 into quad bypass. I love it. Leaps and bounds better than pl2x. Ada also have AGL enhanced which is similar to pl2x and IMO more geared towards movies and tv work rather than music.
I am interested to hear logic 7 now. Perhaps when I get my datasat rs20i I may add an old lexicon for logic 7 or an old Ada.

Is there anything new with Ada or the Cinema Reference series? This is the type of info I'm looking for maybe niche proprietary DSP's that do similar things as logic 7 but are on a modern pre\pro.
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post #1018 of 1296 Old 10-11-2012, 03:08 PM
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"but I am blown away by Ada quad bypass. This is just awesome for 2 channel music."

"Quad Bypass" on the ADA used to be nothing more than duplicating the L/Rs in the surrounds. Same basic thing could be accomplished with a pair of Y cables. That is nothing like what L7 can do.

Has ADA changed "Quad Bypass" in more recent models?

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post #1019 of 1296 Old 10-13-2012, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by sfogg View Post

"but I am blown away by Ada quad bypass. This is just awesome for 2 channel music."
"Quad Bypass" on the ADA used to be nothing more than duplicating the L/Rs in the surrounds. Same basic thing could be accomplished with a pair of Y cables. That is nothing like what L7 can do.
Has ADA changed "Quad Bypass" in more recent models?
Dunno, but it seems to be different. ADA describes Quad Bypass as >>For Music - Creates excellent music image using full speaker array.<<

Then they also offer "Stereo 5": >>Distributes stereo to entire speaker array<< which seems a lot more like what you describe. confused.gif

If someone wants to loan me an ADA, I will decipher what these modes do. wink.gif

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post #1020 of 1296 Old 10-18-2012, 06:51 AM
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Based on the evidence today I believe they are dead, I would like to be proven wrong. That is why I'm still talking about Lexicon. Their death is pretty much staring us in the face but like all things we like and enjoy and have used for years we would like to know for sure. This is why the silence from Lexicon is pretty much the WORST thing they can do at this point.

With this rationale, Parasound is totally dead too, since they discontinued their C1/C2 surround processors almost 5 years ago. A replacement (C3) was planned, but was cancelled. Parasound stated something along the line that this area is too fast paced and they did not want to release a product that could not meet customers' demands. Today they still have not released a replacement processor. In fact, they currently don't offer a processor at all.

So by your standards, Parasound is a dead brand too (yeah right!) rolleyes.gif

Then we have TacT audio that did release a new high-end product. I spent 15 grand on their new flagship processor 2 years ago. The bugs never got fixed, HDMI never worked right, and 6 months ago the company stopped answering e-mails and phone calls. A few months later their web site went dead (virus). TacT audio can be considered DEAD, but Lexicon is very much alive. Please keep things real! biggrin.gif
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