The official Theta Owners Thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #451 of 8901 Old 03-09-2011, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by SamKVA View Post

Unfortunately, I want it all and that includes bass management for 2 channel. The most simple way to get that is to go through the CB3 DSP. I could do that with my previous analogue preamp but that's gone too. I will likely pick up a SS while prices are good. I understand I may be taking a step backwards but that remains to be heard. I'm also taking a giant leap forward going from a CB2 with 1 Superior and 1 Standard DAC to the CB3HD with 2 Extremes. A GenVII may very well be in my future.

If you want bass management without using the CBIII DACs for two channel you need an external crossover, which is what I use. Just to add a bit more complexity to my setup I will be adding a 2 channel preamp (Pass XP-10) for use with the Six Shooter in HT bypass shortly. Between my PWD, ud9004, Six Shooter, CBIII for TV in MCH, external cross-over, external bass EQ, and now 2 channel preamp, I must have about 15 pair of analog cables. Pretty scary, but it works.
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post #452 of 8901 Old 03-09-2011, 02:49 PM
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Do you think he made her dress up in "character" at home? I would have, hehehehehe."You will submit. I am the Borg."

What kind of a husband would he be if he didn't ask

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post #453 of 8901 Old 03-09-2011, 03:46 PM
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Jerri Ryan,7 of 9, had a very public divorce. The husband, Jack Ryan was running for the U.S. senate. It was quite a scandal with the husband allegedly trying to get her to do all sorts of freaky things in public places and join sex clubs. I think the records were sealed to protect the son from future embarrassment. Do you think he made her dress up in "character" at home? I would have, hehehehehe."You will submit. I am the Borg."

Don't you mean "undress" in "character"?

You mean you don't remember me? Back 1999 - 2003, I started and moderated the AVS Tweaks forum and also the AVS Special Guests forum.

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post #454 of 8901 Old 03-09-2011, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by SamKVA View Post

Unfortunately, I want it all and that includes bass management for 2 channel. The most simple way to get that is to go through the CB3 DSP. I could do that with my previous analogue preamp but that's gone too. I will likely pick up a SS while prices are good. I understand I may be taking a step backwards but that remains to be heard. I'm also taking a giant leap forward going from a CB2 with 1 Superior and 1 Standard DAC to the CB3HD with 2 Extremes. A GenVII may very well be in my future.

Theta has never made a Gen VII DAC.

Don't you just hate it when folks pick on you for typos? I get it all the time!

You mean you don't remember me? Back 1999 - 2003, I started and moderated the AVS Tweaks forum and also the AVS Special Guests forum.

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post #455 of 8901 Old 03-09-2011, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by edorr View Post

If you want bass management without using the CBIII DACs for two channel you need an external crossover, which is what I use. Just to add a bit more complexity to my setup I will be adding a 2 channel preamp (Pass XP-10) for use with the Six Shooter in HT bypass shortly. Between my PWD, ud9004, Six Shooter, CBIII for TV in MCH, external cross-over, external bass EQ, and now 2 channel preamp, I must have about 15 pair of analog cables. Pretty scary, but it works.

If there were lots more folks like you the U.S. unemployment rate would plummet thanks to all the analog cable manufacturing and sales! What nobody wants to admit is that the depressed economy and loss of jobs is all due to the analog to digital conversion. I've been telling folks all along that we need to avoid these extra AD steps but folks like The Bland just don't get it!!!@@@

You mean you don't remember me? Back 1999 - 2003, I started and moderated the AVS Tweaks forum and also the AVS Special Guests forum.

My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #456 of 8901 Old 03-09-2011, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

Not with the way Theta does it. Theta calls the rears, surrounds, and contends they can be placed at sides or rear. In a 7.1 set up this same channel goes to the rear and additional channels, sides are created.

LJG is saying the Theta is working the opposite of this. On a 5.1 soundtrack the 'surround' information is coming out the sides. That is what it should do and is the industry standard when things moved from 5.1 to more channels.

When something like DPLIIx processing is run on a 5.1 soundtrack the processing steers out back (rear) channels, not sides.

Discrete 7.1 soundtracks added back (rear) channels, not sides.

If Theta was doing what you suggest it would be opposite of what everyone else is doing and likely wouldn't pass Dolby certification. DPLIIx doesn't steer out sides, it steers out rears. If Theta was doing something different there it wouldn't be DPLIIx.

Shawn
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post #457 of 8901 Old 03-10-2011, 02:05 AM
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Originally Posted by edorr View Post

If you want to keep your system reasonably simple and get SQ comparable to what you were getting with the PWD + Bridge, you need a GenVIII + HiFace EVO (or equivalent). MacMini + HiFace EVO into CBIII HD with Xtremes will be a step back, although the Xtreme's play very competent 2 channel audio.

If you don't want to invest in a GenVIII you should have kept your PWD+Bridge, just sold your analog preamp and bought a Six Shooter. Scott4888 is selling his for peanuts!

On the Six Shooter note, while I may buy one, I wouldn't discount the CB3HD sound without a direct comparison. There must be a reason why new HD owners are selling their Six Shooters. Maybe that's because the HD is all that's needed for multi-channel or maybe the 2 channel sound is that good.

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post #458 of 8901 Old 03-10-2011, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by SamKVA View Post

On the Six Shooter note, while I may buy one, I wouldn't discount the CB3HD sound without a direct comparison. There must be a reason why new HD owners are selling their Six Shooters. Maybe that's because the HD is all that's needed for multi-channel or maybe the 2 channel sound is that good.

Keep in mind that short of marginal improvement of the Xtreme cards due to power supply, the HD upgrade does not do anything for 2 channel. If you had a 2 channel source with its own DACs prior to the the upgrade, it is unlikely you'll want to ditch this and run 2 channel through the CBIII HD after the upgrade, unless your objective is to simplify your system.

I think most Six Shooters hitting the market are owners no longer needing it for MCH. What changes after the upgrade is that if you want use an external DAC/preamp for 2 channel, you have the option of getting a 2 channel pre with HT bypass instead of using the SS. For price performance a used SS for $500 cant be beat, but if you are willing to spend a few thousand you can probably get better SQ with a 2 channel only pre (I will soon find out when I hook up my Pass XP-10).
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post #459 of 8901 Old 03-10-2011, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamKVA View Post


On the Six Shooter note, while I may buy one, I wouldn't discount the CB3HD sound without a direct comparison. There must be a reason why new HD owners are selling their Six Shooters. Maybe that's because the HD is all that's needed for multi-channel or maybe the 2 channel sound is that good.

I sold mine because I was tired of all the cables. I do not for one moment believe any surround processor is better than a good analog preamp. I look forward to the day they are. Many people have always used pre-pros for everything. It depends on how discriminating you are. If you hear something like an Audio Research Ref 5 with a good Ayre CD player, there would be little doubt.

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post #460 of 8901 Old 03-10-2011, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

I sold mine because I was tired of all the cables. I do not for one moment believe any surround processor is better than a good analog preamp. I look forward to the day they are. Many people have always used pre-pros for everything. It depends on how discriminating you are. If you hear something like an Audio Research Ref 5 with a good Ayre CD player, there would be little doubt.

Are you planing to get a 2 channel preamp with HT bypass to replace the SS? You are not doing your Marantz any justice running it through the analog bypass on the CBIII.
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post #461 of 8901 Old 03-10-2011, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

If there were lots more folks like you the U.S. unemployment rate would plummet thanks to all the analog cable manufacturing and sales! What nobody wants to admit is that the depressed economy and loss of jobs is all due to the analog to digital conversion. I've been telling folks all along that we need to avoid these extra AD steps but folks like The Bland just don't get it!!!@@@

Au contraire - I am withholding substantial amounts of Theta upgrade stimulus money from the Californian economy, by extending the lifecycle of my dinosaur technology. I am just waiting for a "cash for an analog clunkers" program to get me the move into the digital age.
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post #462 of 8901 Old 03-10-2011, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by edorr View Post

Are you planing to get a 2 channel preamp with HT bypass to replace the SS? You are not doing your Marantz any justice running it through the analog bypass on the CBIII.

I bought the Gen VIII to also use as an analog pre-amp.

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post #463 of 8901 Old 03-10-2011, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by sfogg View Post

LJG is saying the Theta is working the opposite of this. On a 5.1 soundtrack the 'surround' information is coming out the sides. That is what it should do and is the industry standard when things moved from 5.1 to more channels.

When something like DPLIIx processing is run on a 5.1 soundtrack the processing steers out back (rear) channels, not sides.

Discrete 7.1 soundtracks added back (rear) channels, not sides.

If Theta was doing what you suggest it would be opposite of what everyone else is doing and likely wouldn't pass Dolby certification. DPLIIx doesn't steer out sides, it steers out rears. If Theta was doing something different there it wouldn't be DPLIIx.

Shawn

It's all in the manual. He would not be posting if he were getting the results he expected. I would suggest inputing regular dd via coax and use prologic II x to see what happens. That would determine whether processing has changed with the HDMI board or Theta has completely changed the way it has been doing things.

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post #464 of 8901 Old 03-10-2011, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

If there were lots more folks like you the U.S. unemployment rate would plummet thanks to all the analog cable manufacturing and sales! What nobody wants to admit is that the depressed economy and loss of jobs is all due to the analog to digital conversion. I've been telling folks all along that we need to avoid these extra AD steps but folks like The Bland just don't get it!!!@@@

Actually analog cables are dying. Vampire Wire has discontinued many of it's analog cables. I am not sure if they discontinued all but may have. I do recall that since HDMI a couple of cable companies telling me that analog cable sales have significantly dropped.

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post #465 of 8901 Old 03-10-2011, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

I bought the Gen VIII to also use as an analog pre-amp.

Of course. How could I forget.
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post #466 of 8901 Old 03-10-2011, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post
It's all in the manual. He would not be posting if he were getting the results he expected. I would suggest inputing regular dd via coax and use prologic II x to see what happens. That would determine whether processing has changed with the HDMI board or Theta has completely changed the way it has been doing things.
Page 58 of manual ....Side Speaker Configuration
The side speaker information is an exact replica of the left/right surround channels. In the speaker configuration
menu, they can be turned on and off. Their levels and delays can be individually adjusted in the levels and delays
submenus.

This was the configuration prior to HDMI upgrade, 5.1 eminated from rear not sides
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post #467 of 8901 Old 03-10-2011, 04:25 PM
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anything more than 5.1 is getting to me...just because of the lack of layout standards. I would rather fold down a 7.1 soundtrack to 5.1 just because of compatibility. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't some of these 7.1 soundtracks using the extra two channels as "side speakers" rather than rear surround, while using the standard placement of traditional 5.1 surround speaker setup? So while some soundtracks are using the extra two channels as dual mono rear centers, others are using them as discrete sides? Uuuugghhh...
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post #468 of 8901 Old 03-10-2011, 05:50 PM
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"Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't some of these 7.1 soundtracks using the extra two channels as "side speakers" rather than rear surround,"

Not that I have seen.

"So while some soundtracks are using the extra two channels as dual mono rear centers, others are using them as discrete sides?"

No reason for the extra two channels to be dual mono, they aren't mono but two distinct channels.

Shawn
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post #469 of 8901 Old 03-10-2011, 05:52 PM
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"This was the configuration prior to HDMI upgrade, 5.1 eminated from rear not sides"

And now it doesn't, correct?

If Theta changed this on the HDMI upgrade it is a good thing. They needed to to be able to properly support 7.1 inputs and processing such as DPLIIx.

Shawn
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post #470 of 8901 Old 03-10-2011, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by sfogg View Post


No reason for the extra two channels to be dual mono, they aren't mono but two distinct channels.

Shawn

Matrixed many, but more and more are discrete. No going back for me. 7.1 created a more immersive sound field from the "getty up," the intro like MGM.

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post #471 of 8901 Old 03-10-2011, 07:47 PM
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And now it doesn't, correct?

Depends. Jamin posted the results he got with legacy 5.1 signals: the surround channels on the DD track only played through their respective side speakers; each surround channel on the DTS track played through its respective side and rear (what Theta labels 'Surround') speakers.
Quote:
They needed to to be able to properly support 7.1 inputs and processing such as DPLIIx.

They already support 7.1 inputs (signal routing) properly; LJG tested it with the channel identifier track on the 'Toy Story 3' Blu-ray. When Jamin tried 'Mission to Mars' using PLIIx, both rear speakers played back the same signal.

Sanjay
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post #472 of 8901 Old 03-10-2011, 09:02 PM
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So I've got my CBIIIHD set up and there is one thing I cannot figure out. My cable box goes through the CB and for whatever reason, my TV (Pioneer plasma) is seeing the signal as 480i. I cannot figure out why. The cable box is outputing 1080i (I switched the HDMI cables to make sure).

Any thoughts?
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post #473 of 8901 Old 03-10-2011, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Lex22 View Post

So I've got my CBIIIHD set up and there is one thing I cannot figure out. My cable box goes through the CB and for whatever reason, my TV (Pioneer plasma) is seeing the signal as 480i. I cannot figure out why. The cable box is outputing 1080i (I switched the HDMI cables to make sure).

Any thoughts?

My bad. Every time I went behind the cabinet to switch the cable, I was accidentally hitting the cable box and every time I seemed to hit the resolution button.

Everything works perfectly now. Have not had time to listen to anything seriously though so no reports other than to say everything works.
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post #474 of 8901 Old 03-11-2011, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

If you want bass management without using the CBIII DACs for two channel you need an external crossover, which is what I use. Just to add a bit more complexity to my setup I will be adding a 2 channel preamp (Pass XP-10) for use with the Six Shooter in HT bypass shortly. Between my PWD, ud9004, Six Shooter, CBIII for TV in MCH, external cross-over, external bass EQ, and now 2 channel preamp, I must have about 15 pair of analog cables. Pretty scary, but it works.


what kind of xover are you using?
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post #475 of 8901 Old 03-11-2011, 05:45 AM
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what kind of xover are you using?

I am using the very cheap NHT x2 (no longer in production). I needed to be able to filter a low pass signal from the main channels in stereo, and sum this with the unfiltered LFE channel. Short of getting a custom build Marchand for $1500, or use a digital 2.1 pream with Xover (like Tact), the NHT was the only unit I came across that can do this. I am not using the high pass since I am running my mains at full range. The NHT does EXACTLY what I need and is dirt cheap. The only thing my setup does not allow me to do is pass low frequency from center and surrounds into my subs. I can live with that. Note that the sub output coming out of the NHT X2 goes into the SVS sub equalizer before the JL Audio 113. It works beautifully both in 2 channel and multi channel applications. Needs a bit of level calibration, since you want the low pass stereo signal to be calibrated to the mains levels and the LFE independently.
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post #476 of 8901 Old 03-11-2011, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by edorr View Post


I am not using the high pass since I am running my mains at full range.

Can you EQ both your subs and mains together? Where is your crossover point? Is it below the low range of your mains? Otherwise you may be defeating your sub EQ?

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post #477 of 8901 Old 03-11-2011, 08:22 AM
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Mirage made a pretty decent unit as well, and it seems to pop up some times in the used market.

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post #478 of 8901 Old 03-11-2011, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

Can you EQ both your subs and mains together? Where is your crossover point? Is it below the low range of your mains? Otherwise you may be defeating your sub EQ?

No EQ on the mains. My philosophy is to minimize all circuitry and filtering in the main signal path. My speakers don't even have a cross over between mid range and tweeter.

I measured my mains in room and they drop off around 35Hz. So I calibrate the output levels of my sub and mains using pink noise. Then I EQ my Sub using the SVS unit (this also does phase). Then I manually set the crossover point on the NHT x2 so that I get the flatest response in the 20-80Hz range (again manually measuring across the range - I get about +/- 3db across the range). This is probably around 40Hz. Note that even if you cross-over at 40Hz, you get quite a bit of information from the sub above 40, so between 35 and 80 hz my sub and mains are effectively overlapping.

What this approach does not solve is a spike I measure at around 80Hz. This cannot be EQ'ed because 80Hz comes from my mains. I did this with 2 subs before, but I sold one because to avoid divorces I rarely play loud bass. However, I really miss my second sub and will be ordering another JL113 shortly.

The pro's will probably comment that this approach is all screwed up, but it works for me and I get better bass than I have ever had. Can't wait to get my second sub back though.
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post #479 of 8901 Old 03-11-2011, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

No EQ on the mains. My philosophy is to minimize all circuitry and filtering in the main signal path. My speakers don't even have a cross over between mid range and tweeter.

Good approach. I have line arrays for mains including the center channel that don´t have any crossover at all. They go down to 100Hz. Very open and dynamic. Subs connected to amps with speaker wire to play below 100Hz. They also have no EQ.

I am planning to get some new subs, probably Velodyne, for the LFE. They will have EQ so I plan to play a little bit with that when I get them along with the CBIII HD.
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post #480 of 8901 Old 03-11-2011, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Armand07 View Post

Good approach. I have line arrays for mains including the center channel that don´t have any crossover at all. They go down to 100Hz. Very open and dynamic. Subs connected to amps with speaker wire to play below 100Hz. They also have no EQ.

I am planning to get some new subs, probably Velodyne, for the LFE. They will have EQ so I plan to play a little bit with that when I get them along with the CBIII HD.

Of course we are all partial towards our own kit, but I would suggest at least considering JL Audio's with external EQ for the subs. I never heard the Velodine, but the strenght of the JL's is speed. For just LFE you can get subs that go deeper, but the JL's work particularly well as low frequency extension of mains.
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