The official Theta Owners Thread - Page 295 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8821 of 8829 Unread Yesterday, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by thezaks
Right off the bat, I would say that the XMC-1 is a very good processor. Without DL, it gives a very transparent sound with tight bass and the HDMI worked very well for me (switching inputs, etc). Add that the XMC-1 has Dirac Live, and it's absolutely a nice processor for the money.

It's because of the sum of everything that I rate it better than the Krell S-1200U 3D that I owned for a period of time. The Krell S-1200 had nearly the best sounding uneq'd sound in my system. But the Krell had hdmi issues and the XMC-1 sounds better with DL.

The McIntosh MX-151 sounded better than both the Krell S-1200 and the XMC-1, with Room Perfect engaged. There's a silky smoothness/refinement that is really nice (and addicting) with the MX-151, and the bass is very well done too. However, without RP, the Krell was better sounding.

My TUC upgraded Onkyo PR-SC5508 (uneq'd) was very close to the Krell S-1200, but Audyssey added some pros/cons (for me Audyssey has some cons) that lifted it above the Krell. This TUC Onkyo was very close to the MX-151 in two channel, but I would give the MX-151 a slight edge with movies - mostly because I like Room Perfect better than Audyssey. The TUC Onkyo provided a nice fullness to the sound, larger soundstage, liquid sounding, better dynamics, etc.

Coming into this, the TUC Onkyo and the MX-151 were my favorites, and I was just starting to imagine what the XMC-1 would sound like, when upgraded by TUC. For a non-Atmos processor, I bet a TUC upgraded XMC-1 would be superb. For Atmos, an upgraded Marantz AV8802 might be the ticket. Low overall investment, compared to a CBIV.

The CBIV, however, seems to be another level. The soundstage seems very large, and the upgrades that TUC does on the lower end processors gives you many of the traits that the CBIV provides. The CBIV takes those traits and brings them up a notch.

Once I get the CBIV broken in and get the amp testing done, I'll be able to provide more info.

Dave
Thanks Dave.
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post #8822 of 8829 Unread Yesterday, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Brucemck2
The same 3D miking scheme works well for me with Trinnov. I got the best results when I removed the chair (and the two adjacent chairs) during measurement. Doing that allows you to get more "room/speaker" correction and less "chair reflections" correction. I got almost as good a result when I forced those three chairs into "full recline" mode.
It is too much hassle to disconnect my three front row recliners, and my two rear row recliners, as not only are they in a set together, but they also have power hookup for the power recliner. But I put all recliners in "full recline" mode today, and now I read your post suggesting the same. HA! Great minds think alike.

Anyway, I retook the Dirac chair measurements today, both for front row center, and also rear row center! And this time I did a good jobvtaking the correct "3D" measurements. I do feel that Dirac, which wrote the instructions for measurement, did as clear a job as they could havev in their manual or software. The picture below, that I obtained courtesy of a thread at What's Best Forum, clearly shows that the nine chair measurement points are the ends of a CUBE – the four bottom ends at each corner, the four top ends at each corner, and right in the center of the square the first measurement point.” That makes it so much easier to comprehend, doesn't it?

Haven't had time to watch or listen today, other than playing a few minutes of music. I noted my HDMI multi-channel audio seemed even better than yesterday with my prior more "2D" Dirac measurements/optimization. Playing some Chicago I heard instruments in there I had never heard before!
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You mean you don't remember me? Back 1999 - 2003, I started and moderated the AVS Tweaks forum and also the AVS Special Guests forum.

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post #8823 of 8829 Unread Yesterday, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by stevekale
Steve, I posted a link to an excellent tutorial for using Dirac at some point when it first came to the CB IV. It's worth digging it out again although perhaps that's where you got your image from. The as-you-go instructions in the software are very clear, however. You just need to flick through the views so as to see the "3D" nature of the mic placement points. Once you've got the hang of the basics, the fun starts in thinking about the curves and crossover points to use.

BTW, why Dirac reduces volume should be very obvious.

PS: when will we have the ability to use the second filter for Dirac Live? It would be good to set up one for stereo and the other for multichannel.
Steve, thanks. I tried searching back in the Theta thread for the stuff you posted on Dirac but couldn't fine it - I know it was maybe 10 months ago or so!

The instructions from Dirac are good except that I personally think their picture/diagram, which I used to do the chair measurements, could have been better. Obviously as you are familiar with the Dirac picture/diagram that I attached to my above post you didn't rely solely on what Dirac provided and obtained better pictorial info on the chair "CUBE" 3D measurements as I call them.

Yea, I think all of understand why using Dirac will reduce the volume. As the frequencies are so much more properly balanced, as they were "mixed" in the first place, you don't have to turn it up as loud to hear stuff.

John Baloff, Theta Tech, told me yesterday, and said this has been discussed with a number of Theta customers, that Theta understood Dirac would be providing four filters for Dirac Live for the CBIV, but do date, only one filter has been provided, and there is no firm date when Dirac has promised to provide any more filters. This is a sore spot. John also said its fine to simply use the 5.1 or 7.1 measurements and in the CBIV simply turn to "off" the speakers you are not using. Now if you can explain if there is a sonic benefit for 2 channel only (using subwoofer) to do measurements strictly of stereo front speakers and subwoofer, then of course I will do that, too! Bottom line for now is that if I am moving from front to back row, I will use my trusty laptop to load the correct filter into the CB4. Its a bit of a pain in the butt, but only takes a few minutes so what the heck!

You mean you don't remember me? Back 1999 - 2003, I started and moderated the AVS Tweaks forum and also the AVS Special Guests forum.

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http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431

Last edited by Steve Bruzonsky; Today at 08:32 AM.
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post #8824 of 8829 Unread Today, 02:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky
OMG!!!
OMG!!!!

You know the feeling that astronaut in "2001: A Space Odyssey" had watching the history of the Universe unfold! That's how I am feeling after doing the Dirac target curve to smooth out the low end as described in the CBIV Manual. I used the chair measurements but we stretched it out a bit knowing Dirac works better when you have 1 meter diameter spread of measurements (discussed in the Dirac manual for the 192-24 Dirac version for PCs).

I have done two filters, one for front center (directv, movies sometimes, HDMI multi-channel music sometimes) and one for rear center (2 channel including DTS Neo 6 to multi-channel, HDMI multi-channel music sometimes). Unfortunately, Dirac has yet to come through and given Theta's Dirac software 4 Dirac filter settings, there still is only one. So when I want to change from front to rear, I load the right filter into the CB4.

In particular music both 2 channel via USB and also HDMI multi-channel sound like veils have been lifted. And folks demoing my room have thought it couldn't sound better, which I have been guilty of as well.

I can tell that Dirac is even sensational for me, after doing this "work" today, it is easily obvious that Dirac is the real thing.

Now I'm gonna relax and listen a few hours.
Finally catching up!!

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post #8825 of 8829 Unread Today, 02:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky
Steve, thanks. I tried searching back in the Theta thread for the stuff you posted on Dirac but couldn't fine it - I know it was maybe 10 months ago or so!

The instructions from Dirac are good except that I personally think their picture/diagram, which I used to do the chair measurements, could have been better. Obviously as you are familiar with the Dirac picture/diagram that I attached to my above post you didn't rely solely on what Dirac provided and obtained better pictorial info on the chair "square" 3D measurements as I call them.

Yea, I think all of understand why using Dirac will reduce the volume. As the frequencies are so much more properly balanced, as they were "mixed" in the first place, you don't have to turn it up as loud to hear stuff.

John Baloff, Theta Tech, told me yesterday, and said this has been discussed with a number of Theta customers, that Theta understood Dirac would be providing four filters for Dirac Live for the CBIV, but do date, only one filter has been provided, and there is no firm date when Dirac has promised to provide any more filters. This is a sore spot. John also said its fine to simply use the 5.1 or 7.1 measurements and in the CBIV simply turn to "off" the speakers you are not using. Now if you can explain if there is a sonic benefit for 2 channel only (using subwoofer) to do measurements strictly of stereo front speakers and subwoofer, then of course I will do that, too! Bottom line for now is that if I am moving from front to back row, I will use my trusty laptop to load the correct filter into the CB4. Its a bit of a pain in the butt, but only takes a few minutes so what the heck!

I relied on what Dirac provide in the software. I'm sure you have already done so, but note there are three views for each position - front on, top, and oblique. The three views make mic positioning (up/down, fwd/back or in 3D if you like) very clear.

It is hard to boost a null. It is much easier to pull everything else down, within reason, towards the bottom of nulls.

Note Dirac cannot fix everything. It cannot fix combing issues or ITD ("initial time delay") issues (not to be confused with time delay settings for speakers). But it does help a lot. I highly recommend that people read the Master Handbook of Acoustics (available on your iPad via the Amazon Kindle version).

It is the CB software which is restricting implementation of multiple filters, not the Dirac software. At the moment the CB can only store one filter.

As I have said before, I think there's a lot that Dirac could do better in a context such as the Theta CB where there are crossover settings. The guide from ATI/Theta you refer to helps a lot but it is cumbersome and 'inefficient' for reasons I have mentioned before. I look forward to Theta's continuing implementation... For best results, learn to use REW and Dirac together.

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post #8826 of 8829 Unread Today, 04:01 AM
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This was probably it:

https://www.minidsp.com/images/docum...r%20Manual.pdf

Of course there are some things that are different but the tutorial provides a good overview of the workflow etc. including the mic placement (it includes snapshots from the Dirac software).

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post #8827 of 8829 Unread Today, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by stevekale
Finally catching up!!
Now use REW to see just how well, or poorly, Dirac Live was able to hit the target curve you gave it.

EDIT: the Gen VIII in the UK which is advertised on Audiogon is only a Series 1

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post #8828 of 8829 Unread Today, 04:12 AM
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Originally Posted by stevekale
I highly recommend that people read the Master Handbook of Acoustics (available on your iPad via the Amazon Kindle version).
Another good read on acoustics http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/wp-..._standards.pdf. Intended for 2 channel but a lot applies also to multichannel. You will need a tool like REW to examine your room in this way. Luckily it is free.

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post #8829 of 8829 Unread Today, 08:45 AM
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Steve, thanks for all the good info!

You mean you don't remember me? Back 1999 - 2003, I started and moderated the AVS Tweaks forum and also the AVS Special Guests forum.

My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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