The official Theta Owners Thread - Page 307 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9181 of 9205 Old 07-27-2015, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post
Have you ever tried measuring your speakers with different amplifiers? It's time consuming but different amplifiers interact with the load of the speakers in varying ways which can account for sound differences.
I've measured the FR with competent amps and the difference in sonic signatures isn't a frequency response relationship. It's the same concept in preamps. Putting it another way, a preamp has its sonic signature (warm versus clearer) and there is no load.

IMHO, "bright" therefore means bright speakers or bright music. Sometimes amps or preamps get blamed for being "bright" but in reality it is impossible if the FR is linear. I have also hear "bright" in DAC sections which can only relate to flipping and flopping bits (a.k.a. jitter).
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post #9182 of 9205 Old 07-27-2015, 06:33 AM
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Or simple distortion...

Demand greater honesty and transparency in high-end audio

With Theta, Egglestonworks and Krell since 1998!
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post #9183 of 9205 Old 07-27-2015, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Armand07 View Post
Really high end setup from customer in Norway with Gen8 S3 dac/pre and 4x Prometheus driving a pair of Aerial 20T V2 speakers. Adding a 2nd pair of Prometheus raised the level to "out of this world".

I have heard a lot of reference system over the last 20 years. There is no doubt in my soul that the sound coming from this system is the best I have heard ever. Incredible!
Not all Aerials are created equal. The 20T's are in a league by themselves. I loved the 20T's with Musical Fidelity. I can easily see why the Prometheus would synergistically appreciate the NCore / Theta topology and design approach. It's one of the best speakers in that price point.
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post #9184 of 9205 Old 07-27-2015, 06:36 AM
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Distortion? With current SS amps, that's below human perception.
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post #9185 of 9205 Old 07-27-2015, 08:11 AM
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"
I've measured the FR with competent amps and the difference in sonic signatures isn't a frequency response relationship. It's the same concept in preamps. Putting it another way, a preamp has its sonic signature (warm versus clearer) and there is no load. IMHO, "bright" therefore means bright speakers or bright music. Sometimes amps or preamps get blamed for being "bright" but in reality it is impossible if the FR is linear. I have also hear "bright" in DAC sections which can only relate to flipping and flopping bits (a.k.a. jitter)." I would disagree. Some amplifiers are bright sounding with all speakers. With other amplifiers it's more speaker dependent. It's much easier to apply EQ to make either mids or highs suit your taste than to follow find an amplifier with the sonic signature you like. I take the position that amps and preamps have sonic signatures.
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post #9186 of 9205 Old 07-27-2015, 08:33 AM
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Yes. Amps and preamps have signatures. But IMHO nothing to do with FR.
So some preamps and amps are clearer and others not so much. If I put on a well recorded song and it isn't "bright", how can the amp turn on and off its "brightness"? Answer: it cannot.
Hence, the music or speakers are "bright" which is the FR problem.
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post #9187 of 9205 Old 07-27-2015, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Bigmoviefan View Post
It will get even better sounding Sharp. 😊
I agree!

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post #9188 of 9205 Old 07-27-2015, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigmoviefan View Post
It will get even better sounding Sharp. 😊
Quote:
Originally Posted by thezaks View Post
I agree!

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Thank you to both of you! I was starting to wonder about my decision. Strange thing is last night the current amplifiers gave me a glimpse as they have started to remind me of the demo pair.
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post #9189 of 9205 Old 07-27-2015, 04:16 PM
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Since 4 hdmi ports is not enough for me with the CB4, I'm thinking that it might not be enough for a few of you as well. Any recommendations on an hdmi switcher?

CRAIG: any chance for an hdmi card with more ports?

STEVE B: do your sources go to your lumagen first, before going to the CB4?


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post #9190 of 9205 Old 07-27-2015, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thezaks View Post
Since 4 hdmi ports is not enough for me with the CB4, I'm thinking that it might not be enough for a few of you as well. Any recommendations on an hdmi switcher?

CRAIG: any chance for an hdmi card with more ports?

STEVE B: do your sources go to your lumagen first, before going to the CB4?


Dave
I use Lumagen Products. The Radiance XE but they have new products that are 4K, 3D, HDCP 2.2/HDMI 2.0. You get the bonus of having a video processor too. In my case I run sources into the Lumagen first which then has 2 outputs. One for CB4 and one to the display device.
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post #9191 of 9205 Old 07-28-2015, 05:51 AM
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Any news on the new Extreme DACS? Upgrade/Trade-in Pricing? Availability?
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post #9192 of 9205 Old 07-28-2015, 11:51 AM
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Well like I had stated before the Dreadnaught D sounds best after 400 hours! 200 hours is not enough to show what it can do! But I think you have made up your mind already Amp-Guy! Best of luck to you
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post #9193 of 9205 Old 07-28-2015, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thezaks View Post
Since 4 hdmi ports is not enough for me with the CB4, I'm thinking that it might not be enough for a few of you as well. Any recommendations on an hdmi switcher?

CRAIG: any chance for an hdmi card with more ports?

STEVE B: do your sources go to your lumagen first, before going to the CB4?


Dave
I run everthing through the Lumagen XE, which has two HDMI outs. One HDMI out to projector. Second HDMI out to Atlona HDMI splitter, with one out to CBIV for audio, and one out to 55" 4k LG HDTV which sits under my big screen. Theta Compli Blu 3d has two HDMI outs, one for video going to Lumagen, one for audio going to CBIV. Also, my multi-channel HDMI media server has HDMI into CBIV, too.

Atlona makes great HDMI switcher & switcher products which auto sense the signal.

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post #9194 of 9205 Old 07-28-2015, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thezaks View Post
Since 4 hdmi ports is not enough for me with the CB4, I'm thinking that it might not be enough for a few of you as well. Any recommendations on an hdmi switcher?
Don't know what you are looking for, and no flame please LOL, but I use this cheap HDMI 1.4 switcher for my Kuro plasma in the living room: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ilpage_o03_s00

It switches automatically to whichever device that is powered on, meaning most of the times I don't even know it's there. Of course, digital signal so bit is bit (tongue in cheek), therefore no degradation in video/audio quality that I could tell.

Regards, Can
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post #9195 of 9205 Old 07-28-2015, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
Yes. Amps and preamps have signatures. But IMHO nothing to do with FR.
So some preamps and amps are clearer and others not so much. If I put on a well recorded song and it isn't "bright", how can the amp turn on and off its "brightness"? Answer: it cannot.
Hence, the music or speakers are "bright" which is the FR problem.
No amp can not but you can. As I have said, I once took the approach of constantly switching gear until I found combinations that I liked. Now I just feel like that alone is a very outdated approach that the typical end user will not pursue. It wasn't until I discovered how much of an effect small boost or dips can have on what audiophile consider bright or rolled off that I took a different approach. Many audiophile do in fact like a slightly elevate mid-range for vocals. That's easy to do as well. Have you tried it? I'd wager that I can hugely effect the personal preference of any of the gear you are testing, to the point of one piece of gear being chosen at a very significant rate over the other if I know the listener's bias. It's like trying to find the key to a lock by randomly selecting keys. Well that approach will work but so will just making the proper key. In years past, you had to buy a very expensive, parametric EQ, to even attempt such frequency modifications with tranparency. Now there is Jriver and other programs that are powerful tools, more powerful than amp swapping, if you use them.
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post #9196 of 9205 Old Yesterday, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post
No amp can not but you can. As I have said, I once took the approach of constantly switching gear until I found combinations that I liked. Now I just feel like that alone is a very outdated approach that the typical end user will not pursue. It wasn't until I discovered how much of an effect small boost or dips can have on what audiophile consider bright or rolled off that I took a different approach. Many audiophile do in fact like a slightly elevate mid-range for vocals. That's easy to do as well. Have you tried it? I'd wager that I can hugely effect the personal preference of any of the gear you are testing, to the point of one piece of gear being chosen at a very significant rate over the other if I know the listener's bias. It's like trying to find the key to a lock by randomly selecting keys. Well that approach will work but so will just making the proper key. In years past, you had to buy a very expensive, parametric EQ, to even attempt such frequency modifications with tranparency. Now there is Jriver and other programs that are powerful tools, more powerful than amp swapping, if you use them.
The only time I want to fiddle with EQ is when I have a problem with my room. A better solution is to fix the room with treatments. I don't like touching the FR from the midrange on up. I'm particular about that. As an example, I cannot get more clarity out of a tube amp by turning up the treble. When the tube amp "filters out" the top end, that information is more hidden in the recording. As I said before, the FR is ruler flat on every competent amp ever made. Some like this "warmer" sound while others don't. You cannot just turn up the FR to compensate because you cannot bring it back with frequency.

Amps and preamps are intertwined and analogous and the EQ logic and approach would have to be the same. It would be like suggesting that a person with an Onkyo (IMHO the worst sounding prepro) just needs to turn up the treble to make it sound more airy like a Theta. Not!

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post #9197 of 9205 Old Yesterday, 10:51 AM
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Of course, digital signal so bit is bit (tongue in cheek), therefore no degradation in video/audio quality that I could tell.
If the image is stable and free of sparkles, that's as good as it gets. I won't go into it here but digital video signals, unlike audio DACs do not suffer from jitter until it gets bad enough to break the signal completely.

And since audio jitter is rather high in HDMI interfaces to begin with I doubt the switcher is adding any significant amount.

I know this keeps you up at night but it sounds to me like your low cost no name HDMI switcher is just fine! You won't do any better image quality wise by spending more.

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post #9198 of 9205 Old Yesterday, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
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The only time I want to fiddle with EQ is when I have a problem with my room. A better solution is to fix the room with treatments. I don't like touching the FR from the midrange on up. I'm particular about that. As an example, I cannot get more clarity out of a tube amp by turning up the treble. When the tube amp "filters out" the top end, that information is more hidden in the recording. As I said before, the FR is ruler flat on every competent amp ever made. Some like this "warmer" sound while others don't. You cannot just turn up the FR to compensate because you cannot bring it back with frequency.

Amps and preamps are intertwined and analogous and the EQ logic and approach would have to be the same. It would be like suggesting that a person with an Onkyo (IMHO the worst sounding prepro) just needs to turn up the treble to make it sound more airy like a Theta. Not!
Bulldogger, myself, and others here have always preached room treatments first. But even with excellent room treatments, the latest room correction like Dirac provides valuable benefits. I have been "finding" the Dirac curve, which one may revise as needed, fairly accurate to my ears, following the Theta methods of revising the curve at the very low end for the bass response. My impression is that you're a great guy, you luv ATI multi-channel amplifiers, that you have never before used a Theta Digital product, and now you are demoing the Dreadnaught D multi-channel amp vs the very best latest ATI Signature multi-channel amp. If you had either owned or demoed the Theta CBIV SSP, or even been reading this thread during the past year, you would be familiar with Dirac Live, a CBIV feature, and how even with well treated room treatment rooms Dirac Live still makes a nice leap sonic forward. Also, you would understand that the target Dirac curve (modifiable by user) is not ruler flat, but has a gentle rolloff to avoid the unaturallness of turning up the treble.

Your should take up Dirac Live which has available online at 14 day trial for their PC software. Try it on your media server. You will learn a lot and be very surprised.

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post #9199 of 9205 Old Yesterday, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post
Don't know what you are looking for, and no flame please LOL, but I use this cheap HDMI 1.4 switcher for my Kuro plasma in the living room: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ilpage_o03_s00

It switches automatically to whichever device that is powered on, meaning most of the times I don't even know it's there. Of course, digital signal so bit is bit (tongue in cheek), therefore no degradation in video/audio quality that I could tell.
Hey, if it works it works, that's what counts. If you use the switcher for audio, and the sound is as good or better than before, that says it all.

You boys spending big bucks on expensive HDMI cabling. HA! Now I haven't replaced my in wall BlueJeans Cables thick (24 guage) HDMI cabling, a 35' run. Too much work to replace. But all of my other HDMI cabling is from monoprice, thin, Redmere technology, 18 gbps (HDMI 2.2 compatible), and the cables are cheap. I have demod against some other much more expensive and even thicker HDMI cables and I like the Redmere, even for my mult-channel HDMI media server for audio! You can Google "Redmere" and learn about this technology. It works!

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post #9200 of 9205 Old Yesterday, 11:15 AM
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Steve, I am glad you mentioned Monoprice. They are not very far from where I live. I discovered them years ago when looking for long runs of HDMI cables that would work with my old projector. I needed two for audio connecting my DVR and Blu-ray player so I tried two of their top of the line HDMI cables ( before Redmere was introduced) and was impressed. I will eventually order two of the newer cables.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Bulldogger, myself, and others here have always preached room treatments first. But even with excellent room treatments, the latest room correction like Dirac provides valuable benefits. I have been "finding" the Dirac curve, which one may revise as needed, fairly accurate to my ears, following the Theta methods of revising the curve at the very low end for the bass response. My impression is that you're a great guy, you luv ATI multi-channel amplifiers, that you have never before used a Theta Digital product, and now you are demoing the Dreadnaught D multi-channel amp vs the very best latest ATI Signature multi-channel amp. If you had either owned or demoed the Theta CBIV SSP, or even been reading this thread during the past year, you would be familiar with Dirac Live, a CBIV feature, and how even with well treated room treatment rooms Dirac Live still makes a nice leap sonic forward. Also, you would understand that the target Dirac curve (modifiable by user) is not ruler flat, but has a gentle rolloff to avoid the unaturallness of turning up the treble.

Your should take up Dirac Live which has available online at 14 day trial for their PC software. Try it on your media server. You will learn a lot and be very surprised.
I understand the reason for room correction. More often than not it is needed. There is a counter argument as to why it isn't used as well. This says it best. If you have not watched this, it is WELL worth the effort. See

I fully appreciate what Dirac can do. IMHO, it is superior to Room Perfect and XT-32. I love the fact that you do not have to apply anything to the top end. I have 3 theaters in total. Some rooms factually need room EQ with others don't. So I want the flexibility.

Per the video, I don't want to touch the top end of my speakers. My ears don't prefer it. If you like to enact curves then by definition, you are right because it is your subjective opinion.

With all that side, that wasn't my point to Bulldogger. You cannot add something back once you take it away specifically when it is not FR related. As I stated, the difference in SQ between amps have nothing to do with frequency response. I have no issues what-so-ever to engage room EQ below 500 hz even in a semi-near perfect room. And to reaffirm, I see the value of adjusting the FR (via curves) for some speakers and some rooms and for some ears.

Also, I have played with Dirac. It is the best product out there.

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Question for users of multi-channel 5.0 SACD (or any other high resolution multi-channel material, DVD-A, etc.) with Theta Casablanca please, Steve B? or anyone:

1. Do you set your SACD player (Oppo?) to output Bitstream or LPCM on HDMI? ("Setup" on Oppo player, then check setting for HDMI)
2. What does Casablanca display, is it "Multichannel LPCM"?
3. For your Casablanca, what is your "Default Mode" setting when you play multi-channel SACD? Accessed by "Setup" on remote, then "Input" (button 1), the default mode setting is above button number 5.

Would appreciate response from both CBIII and CB IV owners. TIA.

Regards, Can
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post #9203 of 9205 Old Today, 03:06 PM
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Question for users of multi-channel 5.0 SACD (or any other high resolution multi-channel material, DVD-A, etc.) with Theta Casablanca please, Steve B? or anyone:

1. Do you set your SACD player (Oppo?) to output Bitstream or LPCM on HDMI? ("Setup" on Oppo player, then check setting for HDMI)
2. What does Casablanca display, is it "Multichannel LPCM"?
3. For your Casablanca, what is your "Default Mode" setting when you play multi-channel SACD? Accessed by "Setup" on remote, then "Input" (button 1), the default mode setting is above button number 5.

Would appreciate response from both CBIII and CB IV owners. TIA.
Long time since I've played multi-channel SACD or DVD-A on my Theta Compli 3d universal player, as all this stuff is ripped and plays off my media servers (one HDMI multi-channel, one USB two channel).

If my memory is any good:

1. Set SACD player to LPCM which works for DVD-Audio. Should be a separate setting in menu for SACD, to set to stereo or multi-channel.
Oppo will automatically output SACD at 88-24.

2. CBIII HD and CBIV will show "LPCM" for stereo SACD and "LPCM Multi-channel" for SACD.

3. The CB default audio mode is irrelevant, as "LPCM" will take over.
____________________

Oppo players will only work for SACD via HMDI, nothing on digital coaxial or toslink.

Oppo players, if you set to bitstream, will output DVD-Audio over HDMI.

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Steve,

Sonics of the Oppo player vs Compli player CD's, Blu-ray, SACD? I was curious as my Oppo BDP-105 has analog outputs allowing me to use balanced xlr cables. It appears the Theta is HDMI only. My dealer doesn't have one on display so I can't go in and"borrow it".
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Quote:
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Steve,

Sonics of the Oppo player vs Compli player CD's, Blu-ray, SACD? I was curious as my Oppo BDP-105 has analog outputs allowing me to use balanced xlr cables. It appears the Theta is HDMI only. My dealer doesn't have one on display so I can't go in and"borrow it".
I have owned Oppo 83 and 93, and Theta Compli Blu (Oppo 83) and Theta Compli Blu 3D (Oppo 95).
I have only used digital coaxial and HDMI outputs, which sounded not very good, much better sonics with the Theta models.
Theta has modded the Oppo for best use with CBIII HD and CHIV, for the digital age.

You mean you don't remember me? Back 1999 - 2003, I started and moderated the AVS Tweaks forum and also the AVS Special Guests forum.

My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
Steve Bruzonsky is online now  
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