The official Theta Owners Thread - Page 308 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9211 of 9232 Old 07-31-2015, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by dancjodanc View Post
I'm running Magnapan's speakers. They require a lot of power. Currently I'm running 400 watts into the front 3 channels of my setup. I'm really interested in switching to the Dread D.....and wondered if anyone had a thought if the 225 cards would be enough to drive the Maggie's? I know I can double up and get 400 watts a channel...but I would like to keep my config for the Dread D with 7 channels for my set up.
You should probably ask this question of your speaker manufacturer.

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post #9212 of 9232 Old 07-31-2015, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
You should probably ask this question of your speaker manufacturer.

You could always buy 2 Dreadnaughts!!!@@@
Yeah baby! Two Dreadnaught Ds. 😊
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post #9213 of 9232 Old 07-31-2015, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dancjodanc View Post
I'm running Magnapan's speakers. They require a lot of power. Currently I'm running 400 watts into the front 3 channels of my setup. I'm really interested in switching to the Dread D.....and wondered if anyone had a thought if the 225 cards would be enough to drive the Maggie's? I know I can double up and get 400 watts a channel...but I would like to keep my config for the Dread D with 7 channels for my set up.
Just throwing this out there. If you aren't tied to Theta and are looking for amps that will have enough power to handle just about anything then there are high wattage amps like the Emotiva XPR-1 (1000 watts into 8 ohms, 1750 in 4), McIntosh MC1.2KW's (1200 watts in 8,4 & 2, its actually over 1200 in reality), and Bryston 28B-SST2's (1000 watts into 8 ohms, over 2000 into 4) . For slightly less power there is the Bryston 7B-SST2's (600 watts into 8 ohms, 900 into 4), McIntosh 601's (600 watts into 8, 4 & 2 ohms) and the Emotiva XPA-1 (600 watts into 8 ohms and 1000 watts into 4). All three have stereo amps that do 600 or there abouts as well, Bryston 14B-SST2, McIntosh MC452 and Emotiva XPR-2

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post #9214 of 9232 Old 07-31-2015, 03:22 PM
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I'm running class D now...and like the efficiency! And the low heat! I don't think I can turn back from that....and I used to own the Dread II. I just LOVE the look of the Dread's....and with the D running SO much cooler....I'm wanting to switch back. I'm sure they can power the Maggie's just fine....just wanted another opinion. Since I'm running 5 maggie's in a theater set up.
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post #9215 of 9232 Old 07-31-2015, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by dancjodanc View Post
I'm running class D now...and like the efficiency! And the low heat! I don't think I can turn back from that....and I used to own the Dread II. I just LOVE the look of the Dread's....and with the D running SO much cooler....I'm wanting to switch back. I'm sure they can power the Maggie's just fine....just wanted another opinion. Since I'm running 5 maggie's in a theater set up.
5 Maggie's - you could get 5 Prometheus monoblocks!

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post #9216 of 9232 Old 07-31-2015, 04:23 PM
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If I could get 5 mono blocks I would...but with the bug for a new amp already here, and the update to the Casa IV I want to do when it comes out....I have to watch where the $ go!
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post #9217 of 9232 Old 07-31-2015, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dancjodanc View Post
I'm running class D now...and like the efficiency! And the low heat! I don't think I can turn back from that....and I used to own the Dread II. I just LOVE the look of the Dread's....and with the D running SO much cooler....I'm wanting to switch back. I'm sure they can power the Maggie's just fine....just wanted another opinion. Since I'm running 5 maggie's in a theater set up.
Yeah the low to no heat thing must be very nice and I can see wanting to keep that convenience plus I agree the Theta faceplates are super sexy.

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post #9218 of 9232 Old 07-31-2015, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
I understand the reason for room correction. More often than not it is needed. There is a counter argument as to why it isn't used as well. This says it best. If you have not watched this, it is WELL worth the effort. See
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_l1IkpzeuQI
Per the video, I don't want to touch the top end of my speakers. My ears don't prefer it. If you like to enact curves then by definition, you are right because it is your subjective opinion.
I have no issues what-so-ever to engage room EQ below 500 hz even in a semi-near perfect room. And to reaffirm, I see the value of adjusting the FR (via curves) for some speakers and some rooms and for some ears.

OT: Thanks for the nice video. Paul Hales (a familiar name from high end audio in the 90's) was talking about the transition/Shroeder frequency, above which room correction is quite controversial and NOT necessarily always "justified." My understanding is that almost by definition, there is no such thing as *room* correction above Shroeder. Above this frequency, all so called "room correction" algorithms are correcting the speaker's power response, in essence, the very sound of the speaker that the designer is aiming for. Not necessarily a good idea. This has been discussed by various pro's on this forum: Amir in his Wide Screen Review writing, Nyal Melor in his excellent blog http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/201...a-primer-html/, etc.

I would also like to add that to me, justification for room correction at high frequency, and adjusting the sound using equalizer/bass-treble controls to fit taste are 2 different "things." For example in my case although I don't believe in room correction above Shroeder in the scientific sense, I do like to use (gasp) the tone control/equalizer at all frequencies to adjust certain ****ty sounding material to my taste. I use it in my cars all the time and would love to try it in my high end system. Most main stream recording/music is so harsh/strident in the high frequency that I invariably turn up the bass and turn down the treble in my cars.

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Theta: Stunning 3D soundstage, sublime details, unlimited dynamics and low end response - the processor for music lovers. My system & CBIII HD review & setup help - Post # 3913 and High-End Speaker Impressions & 3D Audio Comments Here
Give vinyl and tube preamp a try - the sound from heaven! :-)

Last edited by cannga; 07-31-2015 at 09:35 PM.
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post #9219 of 9232 Old 07-31-2015, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post
OT: Thanks for the nice video. Paul Hales (a familiar name from high end audio in the 90's) was talking about the transition/Shroeder frequency, above which room correction is quite controversial and NOT necessarily always "justified." My understanding is that almost by definition, there is no such thing as *room* correction above Shroeder. Above this frequency, all so called "room correction" algorithms are correcting the speaker's power response, in essence, the very sound of the speaker that the designer is aiming for. Not necessarily a good idea. This has been discussed by various pro's on this forum: Amir in his Wide Screen Review writing, Nyal Melor in his excellent blog http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/201...a-primer-html/, etc.

I would also like to add that to me, justification for room correction at high frequency, and adjusting the sound using equalizer/bass-treble controls to fit taste are 2 different "things." For example in my case although I don't believe in room correction above Shroeder in the scientific sense, I do like to use (gasp) the tone control/equalizer at all frequencies to adjust certain ****ty sounding material to my taste. I use it in my cars all the time and would love to try it in my high end system. Most main stream recording/music is so harsh/strident in the high frequency that I invariably turn up the bass and turn down the treble in my cars.

Why would it make a difference to the listener if the non flat frequency response the he is hearing is due to room interaction or inherent speaker frequency response?
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post #9220 of 9232 Old Yesterday, 01:07 AM
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I'm taking delivery first part of the week of the new CBIV w/Xtreme 3 DACS(!)

I'm incredibly excited, and believe this represents the best, or certainly arguably in the short list, for high-end music reproduction, where one is not only looking to the newest height-channel codecs. I think this is often impractical anyway when one has high-end expensive speakers and amps (to match across so many new channels), and sometimes depending on one's installation. For example, I am in a large downtown LA loft with 16 ft exposed concrete beam ceilings-no height channels in my future And one where I'm sure Dirac will be startling in it's effectiveness.

As you can see, I'm using a high-end streamer (Aurender) and a very nice vinyl setup. So the music part of the equation has shifted to a slightly more even role than cinema, per se.

By the way, I read in other posts, some harsh criticism of Theta and its (slow) upgrade-path. This surprised me, as a former Lexicon MC-12 owner. Those became practically worthless, with a fanfare of unfulfilled empty promises. Just ask Sanjay...I was pleased to see how active he is in these Theta threads and have always valued his information highly. It is in fact incredibly commendable that Theta has stood behind this component and not only made it relevant again, but in many ways, class-leading.

Okay, my 2 cents, and I look forward to being part of this thread.

Pics to follow

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post #9221 of 9232 Old Yesterday, 10:45 AM
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I'm taking delivery first part of the week of the new CBIV w/Xtreme 3 DACS(!)
I'm incredibly excited, and believe this represents the best, or certainly arguably in the short list, for high-end music reproduction, where one is not only looking to the newest height-channel codecs. I think this is often impractical anyway when one has high-end expensive speakers and amps (to match across so many new channels), and sometimes depending on one's installation. For example, I am in a large downtown LA loft with 16 ft exposed concrete beam ceilings-no height channels in my future And one where I'm sure Dirac will be startling in it's effectiveness.
As you can see, I'm using a high-end streamer (Aurender) and a very nice vinyl setup. So the music part of the equation has shifted to a slightly more even role than cinema, per se.
....
Clearaudio Innovation - very nice indeed! And welcome to the Theta vinyl club - you are the second member.

Congrats for being the first customer with Xtreme 3. With high end speakers like B&W and Wilson, yes the Theta CB is indeed a correct choice because of its rich, full sound (high end speakers will tend to be deadly :-) with SSP's that are lean sounding). The analog volume control is another BIG plus.

If you have questions ask here on this forum - the CB does have some setup idiosyncrasies (Steve Bruzonsky knows a lot of these and always seems ready to answer & help.) that once you know, will be easy to decode.

Regards, Can
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Last edited by cannga; Yesterday at 12:24 PM.
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post #9222 of 9232 Old Yesterday, 10:58 AM
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Why would it make a difference to the listener if the non flat frequency response the he is hearing is due to room interaction or inherent speaker frequency response?
Fair question, an important point and quite relevant as more and more of us get a hold of Dirac in our Casablanca. IMHO,
1. From the standpoint of subjective observation/personal preference, it does NOT. If you like the sound, it doesn't matter how it's achieved: whether it's called an equalizer, tone control, or room correction.
2. From the standpoint of understanding "room correction" methodology, it matters a lot. To me, Hales's key point is that if you like the result from Audyssey/Dirac/Trinnov/etc. correction at high frequency, it's less "room" correction, more **speaker** correction using essentially an equalizer, albeit an automatic one. You, or rather, an arbitrary algorithm such as Dirac/Trinnov, are changing the sound of the speaker as intended by its designer; again, relevant only if the concept matters to the listener.

Number 2 is why you hear people (probably SteveH) mention they prefer to limit room correction to bass, and not mid/high frequency. Bottom line is equalizer function IMHO must always be applied judiciously; what sounds good with certain CD/BD may take the life out of others, "correction" that sounds good at the Hot Seat (for example volume reduction of a modal frequency, 70 hz) may sound horrible at other seats (suck out/loss of life at same modal frequency).

Btw, another interesting point is that Shroeder frequency is room size related. It goes higher and therefore becomes more prominent in smaller rooms: the classic situation of boomy bass from large speakers in small rooms at High End Audio shows. (The only time I've heard a Magico sound bad was IIRC the otherwise tremendous Magico S5 in a tiny room at The Newport High End show - overwhelming bass.) OTOH, in a large 800 seat cinema, per Amir the Fc drops to 24 Hz. This means to me essentially, NO modal behavior to "room correct."
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Last edited by cannga; Yesterday at 02:26 PM.
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post #9223 of 9232 Old Yesterday, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post
Yeah the low to no heat thing must be very nice and I can see wanting to keep that convenience plus I agree the Theta faceplates are super sexy.
I 2nd that. It's a work of art!
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post #9224 of 9232 Old Yesterday, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post
Fair question, an important point and quite relevant as more and more of us get a hold of Dirac in our Casablanca. IMHO,
1. From the standpoint of subjective observation/personal preference, it does NOT. If you like the sound, it doesn't matter how it's achieved: whether it's called an equalizer, tone control, or room correction.
2. From the standpoint of understanding "room correction" methodology, it matters a lot. To me, Hales's key point is that if you like the result from Audyssey/Dirac/Trinnov/etc. correction at high frequency, it's less "room" correction, more **speaker** correction using essentially an equalizer, albeit an automatic one. You, or rather, an arbitrary algorithm such as Dirac, are changing the sound of the speaker as intended by its designer; again, relevant only if the concept matters to the listener.

Number 2 is why you hear people (probably SteveH) mention they prefer to limit room correction to bass, and not mid/high frequency. Bottom line is equalizer function IMHO must always be applied judiciously; what sounds good with certain CD/BD may take the life out of others, what sounds good at the Hot Seat (for example volume reduction of a modal frequency, 70 hz) may sound horrible at other seats (suck out/loss of life at same modal frequency).

Btw, another interesting point is that Shroeder frequency is room size related. It goes higher and therefore becomes more prominent in smaller rooms: the classic situation of boomy bass from large speakers in small rooms at High End Audio shows. (The only time I've heard a Magico sound bad was IIRC the otherwise tremendous Magico S5 in a tiny room at The Newport High End show - overwhelming bass.) OTOH, in a large 800 seat cinema, per Amir the Fc drops to 24 Hz. This means to me essentially, NO modal behavior to "room correct."
Well said and spot on.

Dirac's ability to make everybody happy makes it a top notch approach. I guess what I am saying is in a perfect world, I don't prefer to engage room EQ on the top end ever. BUT, I have to engage EQ in the room that I am staring at right now. Wifey isn't going to let me put room treatments over the windows facing the lake nor do I. XT32 makes an unacceptable speaker placement to my persnickety ears sound very acceptable. In this room and because of where the speakers have to go, I'm not going to blow big $$'s on the system. Hence I am using a Denon X7200W ($3K) with a GoldenEar suite of products. I literally could not tell the differences between top-of-the line electronics and a darn good receiver in this specific room. So what amp I use really is a moot point.

But downstairs is another animal. I can hear the "warmer" signature of the Theta or the "clearer" signature of the ATI. My main point was that I personally cannot make the amps sound the same with EQing them to my ear. If someone else thinks it is close enough with EQing, then buy some inexpensive amps and call it a day.

Now downstairs, when I engage EQ it takes away some "air" and "openess". It violates the KISS principal and the net-net is I hear a degradation. I for one appreciate the fact that Dirac understands that an all or nothing approach isn't acceptable to guys writing out big checks for toys. It's a solid EQ product and I wish it was on every processor brand I sell.
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post #9225 of 9232 Old Yesterday, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post
.....
2. From the standpoint of understanding "room correction" methodology, it matters a lot. To me, Hales's key point is that if you like the result from Audyssey/Dirac/Trinnov/etc. correction at high frequency, it's less "room" correction, more **speaker** correction using essentially an equalizer, albeit an automatic one. You, or rather, an arbitrary algorithm such as Dirac/Trinnov, are changing the sound of the speaker as intended by its designer; again, relevant only if the concept matters to the listener.
Bottomline- if you have poorly designed speakers in your room (or to be politically correct - poor speaker-room interaction)- you will depend on room EQ to a higher degree. So when you read or hear - 'Oooh, Aaah' from folks who have used Trinnov or Dirac- you know the real reason for it . No room is perfect, but better designed speakers reduce the reliance on Room EQ and hence better sonics with just a fewer room treatments or EQ applied.

As much as I am a minimalist, I slightly disagree with Paul Hales's characterization of EQ- due to advances in DSP processing - the 'compromise' in EQ implementation has reduced dramatically- smarter algorithms and implementation (like SFM from Harman) will help achieve better sonic experience in the end.

$0.02

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post #9226 of 9232 Old Yesterday, 05:46 PM
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Side note....I forgot that magnepan's are 4 ohm....so that would make the Dread D 375 watts, with 4 ohm load....so I think that would be plenty to drive them, and I would not have to bridge cards!
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post #9227 of 9232 Old Today, 08:54 AM
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at high frequency, it's less "room" correction, more **speaker** correction
You could arrive at this simply from the graphic you posted...

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post #9228 of 9232 Old Today, 09:00 AM
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3. For your Casablanca, what is your "Default Mode" setting when you play multi-channel SACD? .
Set it to "stereo" but with all relevant speakers on. If you happen to play a stereo track you will get true stereo. If the CB receives multi channel LPCM it will switch to this mode automatically (and because you have all relevant speakers on you will get them all firing). Doesn't work the other way around...

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post #9229 of 9232 Old Today, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by dancjodanc View Post
If I could get 5 mono blocks I would...but with the bug for a new amp already here, and the update to the Casa IV I want to do when it comes out....I have to watch where the $ go!
IV is already here!

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post #9230 of 9232 Old Today, 10:08 AM
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IV is already here!
I meant the IVa....I own the IV....
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post #9231 of 9232 Old Today, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by dancjodanc View Post
If I could get 5 mono blocks I would...but with the bug for a new amp already here, and the update to the Casa IV I want to do when it comes out....I have to watch where the $ go!
That is what I am doing with my system. I have always wanted 5 monoblocks in my system. I need two more and then when ready a CBIV. I do understand your concern with money spent. I myself am not getting younger and consider this a sort of "bucket list" for audio.
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post #9232 of 9232 Old Today, 11:57 AM
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There are several iRule Casablanca files including the ones from forum members Bigbro and Bull D. available in the iRule builder. Will these work on a CBIV?

Got OTA HDTV? Check out my Terrain Mapping thread.
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