The official Theta Owners Thread - Page 317 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9481 of 9506 Old 08-24-2015, 11:35 AM
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Sounds great. I wish I lived close by,I would be bugging you to death.
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post #9482 of 9506 Old 08-24-2015, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by k_lewis View Post
Now this is just a wild guess on my part, but I could see Stereo mode ..... due to how it is intentionally re-processing the sound.

1. For lossy *Encoded* Dolby Digital 2.0 (DVD, cable box): I agree with you - Casablanca does process the sound in Stereo mode (center speaker "plays" in Stereo mode). This is a Casablanca's idiosyncrasy and IMHO the one and only time Matrix mode is needed, but... it has nothing to do with better sound quality of Matrix, etc., per se, Matrix mode here is primarily to keep DD 2.0 to play *at* 2.0 and not processed.

2. For LPCM 2.0 (from CD, SACD, server, etc.): Stereo is NOT processed, not with HDMI 1.4 in Casablanca III HD. If Stereo is processed in this mode Theta engineers would be the most incompetent bunch, no?

If you don't think above is true, we just have to agree to disagree.

Regards, Can
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post #9483 of 9506 Old 08-24-2015, 02:01 PM
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Question about HDMI audio sync and the CB's "delay" settings:

If one delays the front LR and, more importantly, the centre channel to account for 'group delay' of the system's sub woofers is the sync with the video stream adjusted for alignment?

I have delayed my LCR speakers because apparently my sub has a 12msec delay. (I'm not fully convinced it is 12msec but for now that's the setting.) I could swear my HDMI video stream is ahead of my audio resulting in lip sync issues...

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post #9484 of 9506 Old 08-24-2015, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post
1. For lossy *Encoded* Dolby Digital 2.0 (DVD, cable box): I agree with you - Casablanca does process the sound in Stereo mode (center speaker "plays" in Stereo mode). This is a Casablanca's idiosyncrasy and IMHO the one and only time Matrix mode is needed, but... it has nothing to do with better sound quality of Matrix, etc., per se, primarily to keep DD 2.0 *at* 2.0 and not processed.

2. For LPCM 2.0 (from CD, SACD, server, etc.): Stereo is NOT processed, not with HDMI 1.4 in Casablanca III HD. If Stereo is processed in this mode Theta engineers would be the most incompetent bunch, no?

If you don't think above is true, we just have to agree to disagree.
Ask John. Or upgrade to the IV so you (and, as a result, we) don't have to think about it anymore... But a CD is stereo LPCM and John has recommended using Matrix for stereo reproduction of CD content with the CB III or prior (including the HD). The mode isn't dictated by source encoding.

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post #9485 of 9506 Old 08-24-2015, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by stevekale View Post
Ask John. Or upgrade to the IV so you (and, as a result, we) don't have to think about it anymore... But a CD is stereo LPCM and John has recommended using Matrix for stereo reproduction of CD content with the CB III or prior (including the HD). The mode isn't dictated by source encoding.
I have talked to John and asked many questions about the many different modes.

The mode for Dolby Digital 2.0 is very much dictated by whether it is encoded or not. There is a setting deep in Dolby Digital menu to tell what Casa to do for each (Matrix vs. Stereo). It is another set of setting separate from the main setting, for lossy DD 2.0 only.

But I agree we've talked about it enough. Let's agree to disagree and move on.

Regards, Can
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post #9486 of 9506 Old 08-24-2015, 06:01 PM
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I've been waiting for news to break. Has anyone heard the new Xtreme 3.0 DACS on their CBIV? Has Theta announced whether or not their will be an upgrade from existing Xtreme DACS to the new 3.0 versions?

Thanks,

Jim
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post #9487 of 9506 Old 08-24-2015, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim HTPC View Post
I've been waiting for news to break. Has anyone heard the new Xtreme 3.0 DACS on their CBIV? Has Theta announced whether or not their will be an upgrade from existing Xtreme DACS to the new 3.0 versions?

Thanks,

Jim
Jim

Its going to be a little bit , the first machine with the new dacs is probably leaving the factory this week..

They are very limited in production right now but we hopefully will have some machines out there with them very soon

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post #9488 of 9506 Old 08-25-2015, 03:24 AM
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Originally Posted by cannga View Post
Let's agree to disagree and move on.
If you disagree, you are wrong...

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post #9489 of 9506 Old 08-25-2015, 08:57 AM
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If you disagree, you are wrong...
But I agree with you - so I must be wrong!

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post #9490 of 9506 Old 08-25-2015, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post
1. For lossy *Encoded* Dolby Digital 2.0 (DVD, cable box): I agree with you - Casablanca does process the sound in Stereo mode (center speaker "plays" in Stereo mode). This is a Casablanca's idiosyncrasy and IMHO the one and only time Matrix mode is needed, but... it has nothing to do with better sound quality of Matrix, etc., per se, Matrix mode here is primarily to keep DD 2.0 to play *at* 2.0 and not processed.

2. For LPCM 2.0 (from CD, SACD, server, etc.): Stereo is NOT processed, not with HDMI 1.4 in Casablanca III HD. If Stereo is processed in this mode Theta engineers would be the most incompetent bunch, no?

If you don't think above is true, we just have to agree to disagree.
OMG.. where is the "beating a dead horse" icon when you need it.. ;p

Look, to be clear this is NOT my information. I am passing on info from Theta / JB. Word for word. You know, the thing you originally quoted me on and tore it apart. That was JB's info. I had JB email me the summary of his info, verbatim, so I could post it here *without re-interpretation*. My use of the modes or preference to use the modes does not re-define the proper technical explanation that has been given of how the modes actually work.

Continuing on, you are hugely incorrect with your assumptions and frankly I'm not even sure how you can make these claims when you have no technical basis. So instead of flogging the messenger stop being lazy, pick up the phone, call John @ Theta, and hash it out with him. If you don't like John's explanation then you can tell him how it works. I'm sure he will enjoy that.

This is really starting to smell like trolling so please stop and move on.


A/V Gear: Elite 70" display, Theta CBIIIHD processor, Theta Intrepid amplifier, Oppo 95 BD, BG Radia LA800 mains, BG Radia CC400 center, four BG Radia R18i surrounds, dual 18" Bag End Infrasubs, two Fuhrman P1800PF AVRs, Synergistic Silver Reference active cables & interconnects. 

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post #9491 of 9506 Old 08-25-2015, 10:35 PM
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OMG.. where is the "beating a dead horse" icon when you need it.. ;p

Look, to be clear this is NOT my information. I am passing on info from Theta / JB. Word for word. You know, the thing you originally quoted me on and tore it apart. That was JB's info. I had JB email me the summary of his info, verbatim, so I could post it here *without re-interpretation*. My use of the modes or preference to use the modes does not re-define the proper technical explanation that has been given of how the modes actually work.

Continuing on, you are hugely incorrect with your assumptions and frankly I'm not even sure how you can make these claims when you have no technical basis. So instead of flogging the messenger stop being lazy, pick up the phone, call John @ Theta, and hash it out with him. If you don't like John's explanation then you can tell him how it works. I'm sure he will enjoy that.

This is really starting to smell like trolling so please stop and move on.

Dead horse? I could say it's you who is "blabbing on" :-). No one is disputing the veracity of John's quote, only its (mis) interpretation. And yes I have talked to John about the many different mode settings of Theta.

It's plain dumb if Casablanca messes up something so simple as playing Stereo CD unprocessed. It's a fundamental function and competitors like Datasat or Trinnov would have a field day if this were the case. Casablanca does process older codec like Dolby Digital 2.0 differently (DD 2.0 gets upmixed to 5.1 even in Stereo mode) so yes there are situations with Dolby Digital where Matrix helps, just NOT Stereo CD. This is why no dealer & no one (except you) is using Matrix to play simple Stereo CD - this should be all the evidence one needs and it's you who should call John to "modernize" your finding if you disagree.

But let's make sure that we are actually arguing about the same thing :-). Above bold-faced part is *all* I meant. If you use Matrix for other reasons, and not because it is "purer stereo," I have no disagreement and no criticism. Otherwise, this discussion seems to upset you so much, why drag it out and expect me to not respond? Agree to disagree and move on.

Regards, Can
My system & CBIII HD Mini Review Theta Casablanca - the processor for music lovers: stunning 3D soundstage, rich, full sound with *unlimited* :-) dynamics!
High-End Speaker Impressions & 3D Audio Comments Give vinyl and tube preamp a try - the sound from heaven! :-)
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post #9492 of 9506 Old 08-25-2015, 10:38 PM
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But I agree with you - so I must be wrong!
I agree with you, so we both must be right.

Regards, Can
My system & CBIII HD Mini Review Theta Casablanca - the processor for music lovers: stunning 3D soundstage, rich, full sound with *unlimited* :-) dynamics!
High-End Speaker Impressions & 3D Audio Comments Give vinyl and tube preamp a try - the sound from heaven! :-)
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post #9493 of 9506 Old 08-25-2015, 11:22 PM
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Quit it you guys. Or I'll get Donald Trump to tell AVS you know what and you will both be on vacation like Megyn Kelly!
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post #9494 of 9506 Old 08-26-2015, 11:24 AM
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As I reported in this thread a few months back, I used Dirac Live with my CBIV using the chair measurement, and was very pleased with the sonic results!!!@@@

However, John Baloff, Theta Tech, told me he had done many hundreds of Dirac calibrations and was comfortable that for a room sized like mine (18' 3" wide, 25' long, 12' high), that the sofa measurement would be more accurate in terms of better determining/applying room characteristics and would sound even better!

It took me awhile to get to this because (1) I was enjoying what I already had done with Dirac, and (2) I had decided to place OsirisGiza Mk II stands back underneath the two surround left and right Aerial 7t speakers, and to move them back in the room about another foot; and to slightly alter placement of the front left and right Aerial 7ts so they were identical distances from the side walls. The speaker stands were at the front right corner of the room and weight about 100 lbs each. Given my right hip replacement July 2014, I had to get myself "up" to do this "work", lifting, etc.

Well, a week ago Monday I did it! And thanks to my new hip and pretty much daily stretching and exercise routine, I wasn't even sore after (AMAZING!),
Then last Tuesday I did the Dirac measurements for sofa front and sofa rear. After listening the past 5.5 days, I can only say that yea as usual John Baloff was
right on point, the sofa measurement clearly sounds even better than the chair measurement. No doubt about it. I have listened to music and watched DirecTV and blu rays and all I can say is "WOW"! My sofa Dirac measurements led to me revise the Dirac target curve, per the Theta CBIV manual instructions, so that the crossovers are 50 Hz and a bit below for the front row sofa measurements. and 60 Hz and a bit below for the rear row measurements.

Definitely a happy Dirac Theta camper!

My audiophile friend Lon came over the other day and we listened to some 2 channel from the rear row for a bit, before heading out for dinner and then going to see and hear Jackson Browne at the Mesa Arts Center! Lon regularly demos my 2 channel with me. Last time was about three months ago, pre-Dirac usage. Lon was blown away.
His comment was that everything especially voicing was simply even more liquid and pleasing to listen to!
Steve, did you take separate couch measurements front and back as 2 separate measurement projects? I think that's the only way, but thought I'd ask. So you then switch the Dirac file from "front row" to "rear row" in advance (because currently you can only have 1 Dirac preset) whenever you are planning to sit in the front or the rear. Is that correct? I'm about to do something similar with my Dirac setup.

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post #9495 of 9506 Old 08-26-2015, 12:51 PM
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Steve, did you take separate couch measurements front and back as 2 separate measurement projects? I think that's the only way, but thought I'd ask. So you then switch the Dirac file from "front row" to "rear row" in advance (because currently you can only have 1 Dirac preset) whenever you are planning to sit in the front or the rear. Is that correct? I'm about to do something similar with my Dirac setup.
Yes, I took one measurement for front row and one measurement for the back row, and I load the measurement for which row I am going to sit in.

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post #9496 of 9506 Old Yesterday, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by stevekale View Post
Question about HDMI audio sync and the CB's "delay" settings:

If one delays the front LR and, more importantly, the centre channel to account for 'group delay' of the system's sub woofers is the sync with the video stream adjusted for alignment?

I have delayed my LCR speakers because apparently my sub has a 12msec delay. (I'm not fully convinced it is 12msec but for now that's the setting.) I could swear my HDMI video stream is ahead of my audio resulting in lip sync issues...
No one has a view on this?

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post #9497 of 9506 Old Yesterday, 12:12 PM
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Yes, I took one measurement for front row and one measurement for the back row, and I load the measurement for which row I am going to sit in.
Steve, I assume Dirac application makes the 2 rows now sound more similar to each other? Low frequency of back row is now more similar to front?

Regards, Can
My system & CBIII HD Mini Review Theta Casablanca - the processor for music lovers: stunning 3D soundstage, rich, full sound with *unlimited* :-) dynamics!
High-End Speaker Impressions & 3D Audio Comments Give vinyl and tube preamp a try - the sound from heaven! :-)
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Steve, I assume Dirac application makes the 2 rows now sound more similar to each other? Low frequency of back row is now more similar to front?
Cann, I highly recommend the recent podcast with Mathias Johansson, if you want to gain insight into the why's and wherefore's of Dirac. He discusses multi-point measurements, at length.

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Steve, I assume Dirac application makes the 2 rows now sound more similar to each other? Low frequency of back row is now more similar to front?
Make no assumptions. Do it and find out! HA!

But in my case the answer is that both rows in regard to low frequency do sound similar if I load the Dirac measurement for the row that I am listening in & if I have used the AIX blu ray test disc to set speaker levels for each Dirac/row setting (keeping in mind that you set speaker levels AFTER you have applied the Dirac correction and with each speaker set to "Full" and with the subwoofer menu setting set to the # of subwoofers as well) (If my memory is correct, once this is all done, even when you turn on Dirac for a particular CBIV input, you do need to set the speaker crossover in the menu to "XOver" as well)

Cannga, seriously, until you upgrade your CBIIIHD to the CBIV and start playing with Dirac yourself, all of this Dirac drivel and your questions are pretty much meaningless for you. You've got to start playing with Dirac and using Dirac to really understand and hear what this is all about!

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Steve, thanks. I would love to have equalizer function in my system; you bet it's coming.

RUR, will check it out. Thanks.

Regards, Can
My system & CBIII HD Mini Review Theta Casablanca - the processor for music lovers: stunning 3D soundstage, rich, full sound with *unlimited* :-) dynamics!
High-End Speaker Impressions & 3D Audio Comments Give vinyl and tube preamp a try - the sound from heaven! :-)
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So does the CB have onscreen display over HDMI to aid in setup? I only ever seem to see pics of the front panel when people show setup related pics/questions and never a pic of an OSD.

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... (keeping in mind that you set speaker levels AFTER you have applied the Dirac correction and with each speaker set to "Full" and with the subwoofer menu setting set to the # of subwoofers as well)
Hi Steve,

Please remind me why speakers are set to "Full", when setting levels? It doesn't make any sense to me.


Thanks,
Dave
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So does the CB have onscreen display over HDMI to aid in setup? I only ever seem to see pics of the front panel when people show setup related pics/questions and never a pic of an OSD.
Only the front panel LCD display for setup - with the CBIIIHD and CBIV, HDMI is a pure pass through for video with no onscreen display.

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post #9504 of 9506 Unread Yesterday, 10:56 PM
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Hi Steve,

Please remind me why speakers are set to "Full", when setting levels? It doesn't make any sense to me.


Thanks,
Dave

First, the CBIV manual tells you to do this.

Think about it. You want each channel as the same volume, except the subwoofer volume level 6 db higher - 70 db for each channel except 76 db for subwoofer. When you set crossovers, you add bass to the subwoofer channel and take away bass from the other channels. This distorts the actual channel levels if you set speaker and subwoofer levels using a crossover. You want the main non-subwoofer channels to be 70 db - if you use the crossover on the channels for setting speaker level, then the signal per channel is lower in volume and you end up setting a higher speaker level, and you also end up with a higher in volume LFE/subwoofer channel signal and thus you set the subwoofer level lower than it should be.

Again, this is in the CBIV manual!

Now for any CBIV source that you set DIRAC filter to on, you simply set each main non-subwoofer speaker to "XOver" with DIRAC on.
If my memory is any good I tried this with DIRAC filter on but non-subwoofer speakers set to "Full" and I got nothing from the subwoofer at all (I did this awhile ago and not fully sure my memory is right on this)

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Steve my head hurts!

Now I recall why I hesitated to buy a Casablanca before. That is way too complicated! I know you have had yours for awhile and are familiar with it. To be blunt, is any other processor this labor intensive to setup? I'm curious as to the recommended 70 db and not the normal 75 db?
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Originally Posted by Sharp1080 View Post
Now I recall why I hesitated to buy a Casablanca before. That is way too complicated! I know you have had yours for awhile and are familiar with it. To be blunt, is any other processor this labor intensive to setup? I'm curious as to the recommended 70 db and not the normal 75 db?
Its easy to set up once you know what you are doing. Theta's John Baloff and how also with Sanjay is the best tech support in the industry. And you also will have a private line direct to me as we are buddies!

The CBIV actually is appreciably easier in the menu than the models prior.

And believe me DIRAC Live is the real thing!

YOu want sonics - it does cost you some $$ and effort. Not like you Wilson speakers don't involve some competent and timely setup!

You mean you don't remember me? Back 1999 - 2003, I started and moderated the AVS Tweaks forum and also the AVS Special Guests forum.

My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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