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post #3151 of 7192 Old 01-06-2012, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Les Auber View Post

I'm not sure which is harder to handle, audio equipment or auto accessories from well intentioned friends. Either can be like navigating a mine field to not give offense.

I've wondered the same. How much do you really sacrifice going digital into the CB from something like the Squeezebox vs something a little more upscale like the Transporter vs a BDP-1? Yes I'm sure the SPDIF signal gets cleaner with each step up but will my aging ears be able to tell the difference after it goes through the CB IIIHD's jitter jail and whatnot along with the Extreme DAC?

I do admit that it goes a bit against the grain to feed a masterwork like the CB with a Squeezebox or even scarier an iPod but how audible is it?


I share your wonder.

Actually, feeding an ALAC through an IPOD docked to a CBIII/Xtreme connected Wadia 171i delivers surprisingly fabulous results. That said, other than the marginally-sane ability to carry your music-server around with you for use as a personal entertainment device, I don't see the purpose, as the SB sounds as good or better, provides internet radio, and connects seamlessly to your wireless home network. And for half the price.
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post #3152 of 7192 Old 01-06-2012, 10:38 PM
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I currently have a Meridian 861 v6 processor with HD621 and looking to sell them and get into a processor that has an analogue bypass for optimal 2 channel music. By reading these forums it appears the Theta CB3 HD or ADA Mach 1V are at the top of the list. Can anyone give me advise here ? I hear that the the new CB3 HDMI that is coming out is suppose to have even better dacs than the Extreme's. Any advice here ?
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post #3153 of 7192 Old 01-06-2012, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Armand07 View Post

I have experience with everything from Squeezebox to Transporter to a Mac Mini into a Weiss INT202 firewire converter and now a BDP-1 as transports. The BDP-1 easily bests them all! And into a CBIII HD or GenVIII it is truely a magic combo!

My GenVIII now starts to get broken in and it is hard to go to bed some times. It is so good, I just want to sit and listen some more... Also movies with CBIII HD and GenVIII is just awesome. I feel the movie watching is brought to a whole other level!

As I told you, the BDP-1 sounds awesome into the CB3 HD digi out to Gen VIII DAC Series 3 on redbook alone, and better on 96-24 and even better on 192-24. Sounds so good that one needn't worry about the rez of the audio source!Talk about movie watching. Watched the Blu Ray of "Star Wars" last week just before going on vacation. WOW! Can't say enough wow and hoopla about how phenomenal it sounded!

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #3154 of 7192 Old 01-06-2012, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by bobbyZ06360 View Post

I currently have a Meridian 861 v6 processor with HD621 and looking to sell them and get into a processor that has an analogue bypass for optimal 2 channel music. By reading these forums it appears the Theta CB3 HD or ADA Mach 1V are at the top of the list. Can anyone give me advise here ? I hear that the the new CB3 HDMI that is coming out is suppose to have even better dacs than the Extreme's. Any advice here ?

I am using the CB3 HD, Extreme DACs, digi out to a Theta Gen VIII Series 3 DAC. Sounds better this way than using the Theta Six Shooter as a multi-channel analog preamp, and using for example a PS Audio PerfectWave DAC into the Six Shooter. So I am all digital and loving it, especially after adding the Bryston BDP-1 as a computer media player.

If you absolutely must have the best analog bypass, yea, even the CB3 HD analog bypass onboard (not the Six Shooter) is good - but only good - a pairing of the Gen VIII Series 3 DAC is the best combo with the CB3 HD and makes the most "sense" from a working/sounding standpoint, but not necessarily from a cost standpoint depending on your budget.

As for new better DACs than the Extreme's for the CB3 HD, although it is "rumored" that Theta is working on this, nothing concrete has been announced and Sgt Schultz' "I know nothing" (Hogan's Heroes) still applies!

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #3155 of 7192 Old 01-07-2012, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by vandevantersh1 View Post

With an external DAC, I can't hear any difference between 96, 176, 192 using the BDP-1 as a source.

I have seen several others report the same. It's difficult for me to decide without some further first hand experience. For example, one external dac, the Benchmark Dac-1 only actually runs the chip at 24/100 or something like that, so it's not actually reproducing 24/192. I don't think any surround processor currently on the market is capable of 24/192 native playback. That's another case where you could not hear the difference because the difference if it existed has been down sampled. I have seen some report that they could not hear a difference but am not sure they factored in the down sampling. Theta once told me,over a decade ago now, that they were not supporting 24/96 because they did not like the way the current 24/96 dacs sounded. I mentioned that Burr Brown 1704 but was told it was not better than the BB 1702. Later, I saw that dac in the Xtreme cards. As a result of all of this, I do trust the opinion of some audiophiles and reviewers, but still mostly rely on my own judgement.

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post #3156 of 7192 Old 01-07-2012, 01:08 AM
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Originally Posted by bobbyZ06360 View Post

I currently have a Meridian 861 v6 processor with HD621 and looking to sell them and get into a processor that has an analogue bypass for optimal 2 channel music. By reading these forums it appears the Theta CB3 HD or ADA Mach 1V are at the top of the list. Can anyone give me advise here ? I hear that the the new CB3 HDMI that is coming out is suppose to have even better dacs than the Extreme's. Any advice here ?

Well I guess eventually there will have to be new dacs. How far away that is I am not sure. I suspect better than the Xtreme dacs are a still some time away. I looked at the replacement for the TI PCM1704 chip, the Xtreme card uses which is the PCM1795. While it is cheaper than the PCM1704, the specs are almost identical. The Xtreme's are 24/96 capable and I still don't see much of anything at 24/192 that I am interested in buying. A decade ago, I wanted the most cutting edge tech. A lot of times, that approach only resulted in me spending a lot of money, to play a few recordings. At some point, you do need 24/192 support however. The Gen VIII is my solution to 24/192 support for 2 channel anyway.

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post #3157 of 7192 Old 01-07-2012, 01:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DinsdalePiranha View Post

I share your wonder.

Actually, feeding an ALAC through an IPOD docked to a CBIII/Xtreme connected Wadia 171i delivers surprisingly fabulous results.

I auditioned a pair of Sonus Faber Stradivari Homage speakers, 45k with the same source. I reacted right away and wanted a better source when i first saw what the dealer was using. It was amazing how good the sound was. A couple of my audiophile buddies now use an Ipod dock.

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post #3158 of 7192 Old 01-07-2012, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyZ06360 View Post

I currently have a Meridian 861 v6 processor with HD621 and looking to sell them and get into a processor that has an analogue bypass for optimal 2 channel music. By reading these forums it appears the Theta CB3 HD or ADA Mach 1V are at the top of the list. Can anyone give me advise here ? I hear that the the new CB3 HDMI that is coming out is suppose to have even better dacs than the Extreme's. Any advice here ?

This makes no sense. You are going to take a huge hit on your Meridian, then have to buy something new, and no matter how good the analog bypass on the CBIII, it cannot hold a candle to a very good dedicated 2 channel preamp (with HT bypass).

If you consider jumping ship from Meridan to a CBIII you should only do this on the merits of the SSP as a SSP (ask Kishore for input - he owns/owned both processors). If you are strictly looking for improved 2 channel analog source you should just get a 2 channel preamp with HT bypass. This is also the more flexible option, because now you can play around with tubes.

There is one processor that according to their owners has a build in 2 channel analog preamp (this would be your bypass), that is at par with 20K preamps and that is the 30K Krell. You can dig up some commentary from owners of the Krell about the quality of the analog pre on this forum. Another consideration would be to get a CBIII HD with Digi out and GenVIII v3 and use the analog preamp of the GenVIII - the preamp is according to their owners in 10K pre territory.
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post #3159 of 7192 Old 01-07-2012, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DinsdalePiranha View Post


I share your wonder.

Actually, feeding an ALAC through an IPOD docked to a CBIII/Xtreme connected Wadia 171i delivers surprisingly fabulous results. That said, other than the marginally-sane ability to carry your music-server around with you for use as a personal entertainment device, I don't see the purpose, as the SB sounds as good or better, provides internet radio, and connects seamlessly to your wireless home network. And for half the price.

Thanks DP and all the others who answered. These answers pretty much covered what I was expecting, until you get to the very cutting edge where you can have not even a slightly weak link in the chain, the digital source isn't quite as important. Or at least within reason. Rather unlike what I'd found with analog.

I'd been coming to the same conclusions playing back redbook vs the same music in my iTunes library (ALAC) played back using Squeezecenter using a DAL CardDeluxe to the CB. The analog from the CardDeluxe is pretty good but really no contest to SPDIF to the CB. What had surprised me is that I'd be hard pressed to pick out whether it was the Compli Blu or the PC as the source.

I'm with BD in believing that it's best to make up ones own mind on these choices but find other qualified opinions and reviews helpful in checking my conclusions.

I'd been considering the SB and it's variants for all the reasons DP listed. Internet and sat radio as well as a digital music source. And Squeezecenter plays nice with automation unlike iTunes.

Les
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post #3160 of 7192 Old 01-07-2012, 08:45 AM
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"I'd been considering the SB and it's variants ........"
********
After making a comment yesterday, essentially giving equivalency to my disparate digital sources, I began to think that if that is so, then why has the BDP-1 defacto become my sole digital source? If, for no other reason, the combination of an IPad and BDP-1 is, IMO, the current state of the art for a 2ch digital source.

I think that a home trial of the BDP-1 is worth the effort.

Steve
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post #3161 of 7192 Old 01-07-2012, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vandevantersh1 View Post

"I'd been considering the SB and it's variants ........"
********
After making a comment yesterday, essentially giving equivalency to my disparate digital sources, I began to think that if that is so, then why has the BDP-1 defacto become my sole digital source? If, for no other reason, the combination of an IPad and BDP-1 is, IMO, the current state of the art for a 2ch digital source.

I think that a home trial of the BDP-1 is worth the effort.

Steve

Thanks Steve. The one question this raises has the BDP-1 become your main source because it sounds better, less fatiguing to listen to etc or is it simply more convenient than the others? iPad control for instance.

The one thing that Bryston missed on for me at least was the ability to use network storage vs a USB drive. For me it means maintaining separate libraries etc. It looks like they left the control options open enough for that not to be an issue.

Les
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post #3162 of 7192 Old 01-07-2012, 10:26 AM
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"Thanks Steve. The one question this raises has the BDP-1 become your main source because it sounds better, less fatiguing to listen to etc or is it simply more convenient than the others? "
********
Probably all of the above. Subjectively, I think that it does sound better than my other sources, but how much of that is "magical thinking", I don't know. The network storage issue is, at least for me, not a problem. Music files can be transferred over the home network to the USB devices attached to the BDP-1 but it doesn't "stream". It also has moderate internet radio capabilities, if that is important. The bottom line, for me, is that after ripping my CDs and adding downloads to my library, the organization and retrieval of the files is a huge improvement over my floor to ceiling CD racks. There are other options for this but I wanted a no hassle, plug and play, and the BDP-1 does that.

Steve
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post #3163 of 7192 Old 01-07-2012, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vandevantersh1 View Post

"I'd been considering the SB and it's variants ........"
********
After making a comment yesterday, essentially giving equivalency to my disparate digital sources, I began to think that if that is so, then why has the BDP-1 defacto become my sole digital source? If, for no other reason, the combination of an IPad and BDP-1 is, IMO, the current state of the art for a 2ch digital source.

I think that a home trial of the BDP-1 is worth the effort.

Steve

Guys, check this out. Probably the ne plus ultra of servers:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/co...-Server-Review

Norm
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post #3164 of 7192 Old 01-07-2012, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by tyree91 View Post

Guys, check this out. Probably the ne plus ultra of servers:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/co...-Server-Review

Norm

For seven grand this thing better spit out some pretty good bits. With all the improvement in DACs (incl. dejittering, buffering and reclocking) going on that should (theoretically at least) make DACs increasingly source agnostic, one can question the wisdom of spending 7,000 on a server. Thenagain, if the thing squeezes a bit more music out of your FLACs than a BPD-1 or mach2music and money is no object, why not?
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post #3165 of 7192 Old 01-07-2012, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by tyree91 View Post

Guys, check this out. Probably the ne plus ultra of servers:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/co...-Server-Review

Norm

3+ times the cost of a BDP-1? I would also be concerned about spending $7k and wondering if that small boutique unit in a Korean conglomerate will be in business three years from now.

Steve
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post #3166 of 7192 Old 01-07-2012, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by edorr View Post

For seven grand this thing better spit out some pretty good bits. With all the improvement in DACs (incl. dejittering, buffering and reclocking) going on that should (theoretically at least) make DACs increasingly source agnostic, one can question the wisdom of spending 7,000 on a server. Thenagain, if the thing squeezes a bit more music out of your FLACs than a BPD-1 or mach2music and money is no object, why not?

Edorr, it is the $20K Forum after all.
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post #3167 of 7192 Old 01-08-2012, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by tyree91 View Post


Guys, check this out. Probably the ne plus ultra of servers:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/co...-Server-Review

Norm

Yeah ! That looks cool!

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post #3168 of 7192 Old 01-08-2012, 10:57 AM
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Don't blame me, folks. Michael had his chance and passed when he bought a used pair of Enterprises from somone else instead of me!

Yes, I'm still sad about that not working out But I'm glad you sold them anyways, Steve. Sorry again for that hassle back then! Truth be told, I planned to add your pair at the same time as I bought the other four Enterprises. But then my wife put the halt to purchasing six Enterprises at once (because I had just bought three other ones less than two months before)...so I convinced her to purchasing four from the other seller thus having to axe two off my want list. ...so I totalled 7 Enterprises in a period of three months when I planned for 9 (I have a 7.2 system - the .2 are a passive Dunlavy TSW-VI sub pair requiring amps.) It's great that you were letting them go for the Citadels; I'm happy you got your Citadels for an amazing deal! I'm amazed with the sound of the Enterprises and can only imagine the improvements of the Citadels! Your theatre has been an inspiration for what I'm planning on creating for myself!

I haven't visited this forum in a while. I've been quite happy with the sound of my system with the Theta amps so I haven't felt the need to be around here. I'm really loving all of them for 2-channel and HT. This year we are breaking ground with the new house (pending approvals) so the Casablanca IIIHD will be the head unit when the theatre is done. I'll keep reading here for updates now because reality is that the theatre won't be completed until 2013. Gotta start planning now.

I'm still thinking if it's worthwhile to change my Ayre K-1xe for a GenVIIIv3. I like the Ayre for it's transparency for analogue...I run an Ayre D-1xe CD player into it...which uses the Burr Brown PCM1704K DACs, two per channel (the same that's in the Extreme DACs and Gen. VIIIv.3?) I wonder if I'd be better to run analogue into the Gen. or digital. I'm thinking ahead because right now in order for me to use the K-1xe preamp with HT bypass, I need to turn the volume up to UNITY GAIN. This will be a PIA if I decide to leave all of my equipment outside of the HT room. I will not know, via remote, where the actual settings are on the K-1xe. It seems a bit more practical to run a CIII-HD with a digital out into a Gen.VIII and switch the Gen. as 2-channel preamp or DAC for the CIII-HD when needed. I'm assuming this can be programmed by remote and switched while I'm in another room?

Given the size of the planned theater, I think it will also be a PIA to have my CD/BD sources in the other room...I can only imagine the running around changing CDs. grrrrrrrrrrrrr...decisions decisions....
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post #3169 of 7192 Old 01-08-2012, 11:37 AM
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For Craig, I'll let you know when I'm ready to send them out. The one that was "quiet" may have been a loose contact. I pulled the amp out, undid the Reich post and put the wire in again. I played a movie last night and it appeared to work fine. Because it was intermittent over the past few weeks, I'll try it for another few weeks. Regarding the amp that's turning on and off with itself, I was almost happy to find out that it could have been just a loose power chord...I pulled that amp out to check the fuse, but as I pulled it the power chord pulled a bit which caused the amp to click. It was firm in there before I pulled on it, but then when I put the amp back into place I made sure it was in there for good. I watched a movie...nothing happened which was great! But not so trusting yet, I decided to fall asleep in the room last night just in case...sure enough, around 4am the amp was clicking on and off wildly and woke me up...so I had to hard power it off...booooo...anyways, I'll wait until CES is over and have it (or them) shipped out beginning of Feb.
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post #3170 of 7192 Old 01-08-2012, 01:30 PM
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Saw this nugget on another web site:

Theta Digital and CAT (California Audio Technology) will be partnering at CES to demonstrate Theta Digital’s newest power amplifier "Prometheus" and two upgrades to the Theta Digital "Casablanca III HD Music and Theater processor".

Theta Digital and CAT (California Audio Technology) will be partnering at CES to demonstrate Theta Digital’s newest power amplifier "Prometheus" and two upgrades to the Theta Digital "Casablanca III HD Music and Theater processor". A pair of Theta Digital "Prometheus" monobloc amplifiers and a CAT MBX 700.2 FD XPR amplifier will musically power a pair of CAT MBX 2012 "Trinity" Loudspeakers and a pair of CAT MBX 2012 "Miramar" Subwoofers. CAT MBX Gold 500 XLR Interconnects and CAT MBX Black 500 Speaker Cable will provide the connections between electronics and loudspeakers.

"Prometheus" is a class D amplifier (Theta’s first--Theta's motto is Digital Done Right) with specifications that push the edge of the art. Power is rated at 250 watts RMS into 8 ohms, 500 watts RMS into 4 ohms and 1000 watts RMS into 2 ohms with less than 0.01% THD. Signal-to-noise ratio is 128 dB "A" weighted and damping factor exceeds 2500 at any frequency (0 - 20 kHz). Unlike typical Class D designs, the frequency response is +0, -.5 dB at any impedance load. MSRP is $6,000 each or $12,000 per pair. "Prometheus" will be available in April, 2012.

Theta Digital is also introducing two upgrades to the Theta Digital "Casablanca III HD Music and Theater processor". The first is a new 12-channel digital output card that features 6 pairs of AES/EBU balanced outputs. The new card offers wideband digital output (up to 192 kHz) for users who wish to route signals to an outboard DAC like our Theta Digital Generation VIII Series 3. MSRP for the new digital output card is $2,000 and will be available in February, 2012.

The second upgrade adds "Dirac Live Digital Room Correction" to the "Casablanca" platform. "Dirac Live" is a state-of-the-art digital room correction system that uses mixed phase processing to improve in-room frequency response and phase errors, reduce first order reflections and improve system time-alignment. In the "Casablanca", "Dirac Live" is enabled by changing one internal circuit board and adding new firmware. MSRP for the Dirac Live upgrade is $3,995.00 and will be available in June, 2012.

The CAT MBX 2012 "Trinity" Loudspeaker features the industry’s highest performing tweeter flanking a pair of curvilinear aluminum woofers with solid copper phase plugs in a physically signal-aligned enclosure CNC machined to wrist watch accuracy from MBX-105 material (similar to Corian and Avonite). The CAT MBX 2012 "Miramar" Subwoofer features a parabolic Aluminum 12” Woofer in an enclosure CNC machined from MBX-105 material as well. MSRP for the CAT MBX 2012 "Trinity" Loudspeaker is $24,800 ea. MSRP for the CAT MBX "Miramar" Subwoofer is $27,500 ea.

Armed w/ industry leading heat dissipation abilities, proprietary aluminum CAT MBX drivers can exceed the SPL of most "ROCK" concerts, yet deliver audiophile musical accuracy that defines the ultra high performance 2-channel industry. CAT MBX drivers hold records for speed, durability, off-axis dispersion, musicality, clarity, detail and definition for music and home theater playback. Indoors and outdoors, in recording studios and on mega yachts, CAT MBX drivers are truly unprecedented!

The CAT MBX Gold 500 XLR Interconnect Cable features OCC 6N(99.9999% Pure) Copper and is value engineered and priced, in bulk, at $32.00 per foot. The CAT MBX Black 500 Loudspeaker Cable features 9AWG OCC 6N(99.9999% Pure) Copper in a CL3 rated jacket and is value engineered and priced, in bulk, at $39.00 a foot.

For more information regarding Theta Digital products, contact Jeff Hipps @ Theta Digital – 323-278-0001 or email to jeff@ati-amp.com. For more information about CAT (California Audio Technology) products, contact Lou Sall @ CAT -888-HEARCAT (888-432-7228) or email to ldsall@calaudiotech.com.

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post #3171 of 7192 Old 01-08-2012, 01:31 PM
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I run an Ayre D-1xe CD player into it...which uses the Burr Brown PCM1704K DACs, two per channel (the same that's in the Extreme DACs and Gen. VIIIv.3?)

That's what I thought as well. I asked the question recently and was told the Gen VIII has never used the same dac as the Xtremes. The series 1 uses a 24/192 dac and then Theta switched to a better 24/192 dac for the series 2.

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post #3172 of 7192 Old 01-08-2012, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by tjk3030 View Post


Theta Digital and CAT (California Audio Technology) will be partnering at CES to demonstrate Theta Digital's newest power amplifier "Prometheus" and two upgrades to the Theta Digital "Casablanca III HD Music and Theater processor".

Theta Digital and CAT (California Audio Technology) will be partnering at CES to demonstrate Theta Digital's newest power amplifier "Prometheus" and two upgrades to the Theta Digital "Casablanca III HD Music and Theater processor". A pair of Theta Digital "Prometheus" monobloc amplifiers and a CAT MBX 700.2 FD XPR amplifier will musically power a pair of CAT MBX 2012 "Trinity" Loudspeakers and a pair of CAT MBX 2012 "Miramar" Subwoofers. CAT MBX Gold 500 XLR Interconnects and CAT MBX Black 500 Speaker Cable will provide the connections between electronics and loudspeakers.

"Prometheus" is a class D amplifier (Theta's first--Theta's motto is Digital Done Right) with specifications that push the edge of the art. Power is rated at 250 watts RMS into 8 ohms, 500 watts RMS into 4 ohms and 1000 watts RMS into 2 ohms with less than 0.01% THD. Signal-to-noise ratio is 128 dB "A" weighted and damping factor exceeds 2500 at any frequency (0 - 20 kHz). Unlike typical Class D designs, the frequency response is +0, -.5 dB at any impedance load. MSRP is $6,000 each or $12,000 per pair. "Prometheus" will be available in April, 2012.

Theta Digital is also introducing two upgrades to the Theta Digital "Casablanca III HD Music and Theater processor". The first is a new 12-channel digital output card that features 6 pairs of AES/EBU balanced outputs. The new card offers wideband digital output (up to 192 kHz) for users who wish to route signals to an outboard DAC like our Theta Digital Generation VIII Series 3. MSRP for the new digital output card is $2,000 and will be available in February, 2012.

The second upgrade adds "Dirac Live Digital Room Correction" to the "Casablanca" platform. "Dirac Live" is a state-of-the-art digital room correction system that uses mixed phase processing to improve in-room frequency response and phase errors, reduce first order reflections and improve system time-alignment. In the "Casablanca", "Dirac Live" is enabled by changing one internal circuit board and adding new firmware. MSRP for the Dirac Live upgrade is $3,995.00 and will be available in June, 2012.

The CAT MBX 2012 "Trinity" Loudspeaker features the industry's highest performing tweeter flanking a pair of curvilinear aluminum woofers with solid copper phase plugs in a physically signal-aligned enclosure CNC machined to wrist watch accuracy from MBX-105 material (similar to Corian and Avonite). The CAT MBX 2012 "Miramar" Subwoofer features a parabolic Aluminum 12 Woofer in an enclosure CNC machined from MBX-105 material as well. MSRP for the CAT MBX 2012 "Trinity" Loudspeaker is $24,800 ea. MSRP for the CAT MBX "Miramar" Subwoofer is $27,500 ea.

Armed w/ industry leading heat dissipation abilities, proprietary aluminum CAT MBX drivers can exceed the SPL of most "ROCK" concerts, yet deliver audiophile musical accuracy that defines the ultra high performance 2-channel industry. CAT MBX drivers hold records for speed, durability, off-axis dispersion, musicality, clarity, detail and definition for music and home theater playback. Indoors and outdoors, in recording studios and on mega yachts, CAT MBX drivers are truly unprecedented!


The best surround demo that I have ever heard featured CAT speaker and Theta electronics. Should be a treat. That is a very good SNR for a Class D Amp. Theta's on the march again! Hell of a come back. Hell of a come back.

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post #3173 of 7192 Old 01-08-2012, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by tjk3030 View Post

The second upgrade adds "Dirac Live Digital Room Correction" to the "Casablanca" platform. "Dirac Live" is a state-of-the-art digital room correction system that uses mixed phase processing to improve in-room frequency response and phase errors, reduce first order reflections and improve system time-alignment. In the "Casablanca", "Dirac Live" is enabled by changing one internal circuit board and adding new firmware. MSRP for the Dirac Live upgrade is $3,995.00 and will be available in June, 2012.

That's all?! That quick?!

I am so thankful for the modular and upgrade-ability concept of Theta CBIIIHD. I had hoped Dirac upgrade will cost no more than 5-6k; at 4k MSRP, wow, it's not cheap, it's dirt cheap. If you are following Dan Francis's excellent thread on room correction, you will know Theta owners are getting away with highway robbery here.

Didn't realize this at the time but now I know by spending more at the beginning and bought the CBIIIHD, I have assured myself that I most likely will never have to buy a new SSP again.

Regards, Can
Theta sound: Powerful and full-bodied, stunning 3D soundstage, spooky imaging in "clean & quiet" soundfield. My system & CBIII HD review & setup help - Post # 3913 & 3914
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post #3174 of 7192 Old 01-08-2012, 07:56 PM
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Saw this nugget on another web site:

Theta Digital and CAT (California Audio Technology) will be partnering at CES to demonstrate Theta Digital’s newest power amplifier "Prometheus" and two upgrades to the Theta Digital "Casablanca III HD Music and Theater processor".

Theta Digital and CAT (California Audio Technology) will be partnering at CES to demonstrate Theta Digital’s newest power amplifier "Prometheus" and two upgrades to the Theta Digital "Casablanca III HD Music and Theater processor". A pair of Theta Digital "Prometheus" monobloc amplifiers and a CAT MBX 700.2 FD XPR amplifier will musically power a pair of CAT MBX 2012 "Trinity" Loudspeakers and a pair of CAT MBX 2012 "Miramar" Subwoofers. CAT MBX Gold 500 XLR Interconnects and CAT MBX Black 500 Speaker Cable will provide the connections between electronics and loudspeakers.

"Prometheus" is a class D amplifier (Theta’s first--Theta's motto is Digital Done Right) with specifications that push the edge of the art. Power is rated at 250 watts RMS into 8 ohms, 500 watts RMS into 4 ohms and 1000 watts RMS into 2 ohms with less than 0.01% THD. Signal-to-noise ratio is 128 dB "A" weighted and damping factor exceeds 2500 at any frequency (0 - 20 kHz). Unlike typical Class D designs, the frequency response is +0, -.5 dB at any impedance load. MSRP is $6,000 each or $12,000 per pair. "Prometheus" will be available in April, 2012.

Theta Digital is also introducing two upgrades to the Theta Digital "Casablanca III HD Music and Theater processor". The first is a new 12-channel digital output card that features 6 pairs of AES/EBU balanced outputs. The new card offers wideband digital output (up to 192 kHz) for users who wish to route signals to an outboard DAC like our Theta Digital Generation VIII Series 3. MSRP for the new digital output card is $2,000 and will be available in February, 2012.

The second upgrade adds "Dirac Live Digital Room Correction" to the "Casablanca" platform. "Dirac Live" is a state-of-the-art digital room correction system that uses mixed phase processing to improve in-room frequency response and phase errors, reduce first order reflections and improve system time-alignment. In the "Casablanca", "Dirac Live" is enabled by changing one internal circuit board and adding new firmware. MSRP for the Dirac Live upgrade is $3,995.00 and will be available in June, 2012.

The CAT MBX 2012 "Trinity" Loudspeaker features the industry’s highest performing tweeter flanking a pair of curvilinear aluminum woofers with solid copper phase plugs in a physically signal-aligned enclosure CNC machined to wrist watch accuracy from MBX-105 material (similar to Corian and Avonite). The CAT MBX 2012 "Miramar" Subwoofer features a parabolic Aluminum 12” Woofer in an enclosure CNC machined from MBX-105 material as well. MSRP for the CAT MBX 2012 "Trinity" Loudspeaker is $24,800 ea. MSRP for the CAT MBX "Miramar" Subwoofer is $27,500 ea.

Armed w/ industry leading heat dissipation abilities, proprietary aluminum CAT MBX drivers can exceed the SPL of most "ROCK" concerts, yet deliver audiophile musical accuracy that defines the ultra high performance 2-channel industry. CAT MBX drivers hold records for speed, durability, off-axis dispersion, musicality, clarity, detail and definition for music and home theater playback. Indoors and outdoors, in recording studios and on mega yachts, CAT MBX drivers are truly unprecedented!

The CAT MBX Gold 500 XLR Interconnect Cable features OCC 6N(99.9999% Pure) Copper and is value engineered and priced, in bulk, at $32.00 per foot. The CAT MBX Black 500 Loudspeaker Cable features 9AWG OCC 6N(99.9999% Pure) Copper in a CL3 rated jacket and is value engineered and priced, in bulk, at $39.00 a foot.

For more information regarding Theta Digital products, contact Jeff Hipps @ Theta Digital – 323-278-0001 or email to jeff@ati-amp.com. For more information about CAT (California Audio Technology) products, contact Lou Sall @ CAT -888-HEARCAT (888-432-7228) or email to ldsall@calaudiotech.com.


This is more BIG new for us Theta luvers!


1. "Prometheus" is a class D amplifier (Theta’s first--Theta's motto is Digital Done Right) with specifications that push the edge of the art. Power is rated at 250 watts RMS into 8 ohms, 500 watts RMS into 4 ohms and 1000 watts RMS into 2 ohms with less than 0.01% THD. Signal-to-noise ratio is 128 dB "A" weighted and damping factor exceeds 2500 at any frequency (0 - 20 kHz). Unlike typical Class D designs, the frequency response is +0, -.5 dB at any impedance load. MSRP is $6,000 each or $12,000 per pair. "Prometheus" will be available in April, 2012.


2. "two upgrades to the Theta Digital "Casablanca III HD Music and Theater processor". The first is a new 12-channel digital output card that features 6 pairs of AES/EBU balanced outputs. The new card offers wideband digital output (up to 192 kHz) for users who wish to route signals to an outboard DAC like our Theta Digital Generation VIII Series 3. MSRP for the new digital output card is $2,000 and will be available in February, 2012. The second upgrade adds "Dirac Live Digital Room Correction" to the "Casablanca" platform. "Dirac Live" is a state-of-the-art digital room correction system that uses mixed phase processing to improve in-room frequency response and phase errors, reduce first order reflections and improve system time-alignment. In the "Casablanca", "Dirac Live" is enabled by changing one internal circuit board and adding new firmware. MSRP for the Dirac Live upgrade is $3,995.00 and will be available in June, 2012.

I am getting my order in for this wideband digi out card for my CB3 HD paired with a Gen VIII Series 3 DAC. WOW! And of course for Dirac Live once its ready!!!@@@

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #3175 of 7192 Old 01-09-2012, 02:46 AM
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The first is a new 12-channel digital output card that features 6 pairs of AES/EBU balanced outputs. The new card offers wideband digital output (up to 192 kHz) for users who wish to route signals to an outboard DAC like our Theta Digital Generation VIII Series 3. MSRP for the new digital output card is $2,000 and will be available in February, 2012.

Perfect! This is what I was hoping for.

Re: room correction. I know nothing about it. I guess I better start doing my homework on Dirac Live DRC. If my room is built well, this is a form of electronic equalisation to smooth out the rest?
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post #3176 of 7192 Old 01-09-2012, 05:47 AM
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Did you ever get this resolved ?

Not yet. I was on vacation in Gatlinburg (snow for one day) so my son could touch snow for the first time, and go tubing. He loved Wild Woody's go carts for toddlers.

My plan is to test with analog stereo cable to see if i hear a difference.
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post #3177 of 7192 Old 01-09-2012, 08:12 AM
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Perfect! This is what I was hoping for.

Re: room correction. I know nothing about it. I guess I better start doing my homework on Dirac Live DRC. If my room is built well, this is a form of electronic equalisation to smooth out the rest?

I know only a little (next to nothing), but here is what I've learned so far (experts pls correct me as needed):

1. It's a form of automated electronic equalization to smooth the in-room frequency response of your speakers ("automated" essentially implying an ability of the machine - not you - to "listen" with a mic, and then correct the sound using automated algorithm). This is particularly important in the low frequency range, where room modes dominate speaker response.

2. To work well, it needs to be paired up with manual electronic equalization, either by an ability to modify Dirac's result, or by good ol' parametric equalizer function built-in. One suggested approach: You let the Dirac does its automated work, then you further manually adjust the sound, to personal taste. In other words, in step 1 above, the machine "listens," in this step, *you* listen. This is a very critical function and one I wish someone at Theta is thinking about.

3. It should improve the sound, but it cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. You still need good sound, good speakers, good amps, etc., to begin with. The sound character of your system remains a critical starting block.

4. Will it guarantee to improve sound of the Theta? It's for us to find out. The researchers have done their studies, but bottom line is still the listening by end users. The good thing about it is if you don't like it, because it's done in digital domain, it could be taken nearly completely out of circuit. This is particularly important because of the seemingly fairly large number of "purist audiophile" types (no offense intended, I am one) in the Theta community.

5. We are very very very lucky that it costs only $4000. Because of the modular nature of Theta CBIIIHD , by adding card internally, you save another box, another power supply, digital out to separate box, output stage in second box, cables, etc., etc.. Literally thousands, and thousands of $$$.

Regards, Can
Theta sound: Powerful and full-bodied, stunning 3D soundstage, spooky imaging in "clean & quiet" soundfield. My system & CBIII HD review & setup help - Post # 3913 & 3914
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post #3178 of 7192 Old 01-09-2012, 09:04 AM
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The good thing about it is if you don't like it, because it's done in digital domain, it could be taken nearly completely out of circuit. This is particularly important because of the fairly large number of "purist audiophile" types (no offense intended, I am one) in the Theta community, I believe.

So the bolded statement is what I've always been concerned about in the past...that any electronic equalisation, delays, etc added to the original signal affects the transparency and dynamics of the original audio. I was in the mindset that most equalisation - done optimally - was done by correct room design, treatment, and layout based on the main seating location. If attention to the room was given first, then there would be little need to electronically manipulate the signal even more. I can see how equalisation would work wonders for rooms that have not the benefit of optimal room design.
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post #3179 of 7192 Old 01-09-2012, 10:29 AM
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Theta Digital is also introducing two upgrades to the Theta Digital "Casablanca III HD Music and Theater processor". The first is a new 12-channel digital output card that features 6 pairs of AES/EBU balanced outputs. The new card offers wideband digital output (up to 192 kHz) for users who wish to route signals to an outboard DAC like our Theta Digital Generation VIII Series 3. MSRP for the new digital output card is $2,000 and will be available in February, 2012.

Can any of the Theta dealers in the house clarify what the actual output resolution of this new card would be in a CBIII HD with HDMI source?

The existing card is capable of 96/24 yet outputs 48/16 because of HDMI licensing restrictions, while the CBIII HD itself processes internally at 48/24. How does a higher resolution card lift either one of these constraints?

Reason I am asking is that I would seriously consider upgrading my CBIII if it supported native 96/24 in unencrypted PCM on a digi out card, so I could use it with my ps audio DAC. This new card may or may not deliver the goods, so I would like to understand the finer points of this announcement.
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post #3180 of 7192 Old 01-09-2012, 12:09 PM
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Tested with analog stereo cable. I hear no difference in sound "artifact" between digital and analog. According to John it rules out the DACs themselves. My question is could the volume cards be creating this slight "over-driven audio" artifact? It is present at low and mid listening levels. I can hear it at volume level 20 up to over 50 depending on audio connection type and source.

I heard John is on his way to ces. Not sure how soon I'll hear back.
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