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post #7291 of 7319 Old 09-22-2014, 05:16 PM
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I am curious -- what do readers of this forum think to be the value to have a dedicated remote controller for the Casablanca -- which could do things such as switch inputs from a source (e.g., digital and analog from a high end CD player) and change the ms of the master audio delay (dependent on video source), etc.? Classe and Krell have such remotes for their high end preamp/processors; Theta's current offering (the Theta Digital 7-Component Pre-Programmed and Learning Remote Control) is a rebadge of an inexpensive, though still decent, URC home theater controller that handles one's TV, VCR, A/V receiver, etc. -- as pictured below.
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post #7292 of 7319 Old 09-22-2014, 06:17 PM
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Yea, like mine! I will betcha anyday that The Bland's supertechedoutinthenewestlatestfeatures theater doesn't sound near as pleasing as my theater for both movies and music!@@@
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post #7293 of 7319 Old 09-22-2014, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
The current HDMI card is a pass through one, meaning no video processing. Theta obtains the card from Momentum Data Systems. My educated guess is Theta will continue to use pass through HDMI cards for the CB as it continues to be upgraded. This is what by far most of us want - HDMI switching - if we want video processing, we get an external unit - like I have a Lumagen Radiance. This means you want Darbee, get an external Lumagen (later models have Darbee), or get an Oppo blu ray model with Darbee, or get a Darbee.
My main request to Theta was more HDMI inputs, and CEC, even though CEC probably can be solved with this unit. And I would expect this would most likly be a HMDI 2.0 compliant card. Video processing or Darbee you are probably right with.

CEC I would expect is something most of us want, in order to reduce the number of remotes.

Last edited by ANRE; 09-23-2014 at 01:25 AM.
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post #7294 of 7319 Old 09-22-2014, 10:19 PM
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I would guess many Theta users these days have ripped their CD's, and purchase music via HD-tracks and similar shops. Or even use Wimp, that streams in CD quality. So why should not also Theta have a solution for USB to S/PDIF converter. Is there really a prove that a USB interface isn't applicable for high end audio ? Or Streaming ? Linn has very good products as an example. I can not not hear difference with my ripped CD vs my Wadia 581 GNS with my CB using USB interface from my HTPC.

As Steve, I also use an external USB to S/PDIF converter. The hiFace Evo with external clock. (And even an exernal PS). Many boxes and extra cabling. My USB cable is a AudioQuest - Coffee - USB Cable.

But my point is it would be so much nicer to have this built into the Theta. Like using this. Or any other company Theta would prefer to cooperate with, unless they think they can make something better themself.
To me external sound card in a computer is not an option. Either USB or RJ45 interface. Preferable both.

Hope to hear more opinions about this.

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post #7295 of 7319 Old 09-25-2014, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmeyers View Post
I am curious -- what do readers of this forum think to be the value to have a dedicated remote controller for the Casablanca -- which could do things such as switch inputs from a source (e.g., digital and analog from a high end CD player) and change the ms of the master audio delay (dependent on video source), etc.? Classe and Krell have such remotes for their high end preamp/processors; Theta's current offering (the Theta Digital 7-Component Pre-Programmed and Learning Remote Control) is a rebadge of an inexpensive, though still decent, URC home theater controller that handles one's TV, VCR, A/V receiver, etc. -- as pictured below.
I would not be interested. I use Irule with Ipads and Iphones. The new Iphone 6 plus looks perfect for use as a remote. Theta needs to develop a module for Irule. Something like the Sono would be awesome http://iruleathome.com/apps/sonos-module
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post #7296 of 7319 Old 09-25-2014, 06:26 PM
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For those with the CBIV, what the final verdict on engaging Jitter Jail II with HDMI sources? Do you hear an improvement? This was new engineering for Theta, and I am curious if it made a difference.

Never become so involved with something that it blinds you.
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post #7297 of 7319 Old 09-26-2014, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post
I would not be interested. I use Irule with Ipads and Iphones. The new Iphone 6 plus looks perfect for use as a remote. Theta needs to develop a module for Irule. Something like the Sono would be awesome http://iruleathome.com/apps/sonos-module
Very good suggestion. It,s on "over time" to have such an app. And if i remember correctly U have already done some good work here

As far as I understand iRule is present the best rs232 controller.

Maybe we can hope for this as an xmas gift from Theta

The Crystal SW would be nice to, but I guess that's not realistic, nor OSD

Can this has something to do with that the dealers has convinced Theta that setup and rs232 interface should be part of their job ?
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post #7298 of 7319 Old 09-26-2014, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post
I would not be interested. I use Irule with Ipads and Iphones. The new Iphone 6 plus looks perfect for use as a remote

Just don't sit on it

Egglestonworks Andra III, Andra III Centre, Rosa (as surround). Rel Stentor II. Theta CB IV. Krell FPB 200 and two KAV 150a amps. Custom-built audio server. Oppo 103EU. Apple TV. Pioneer PDP-LX608D. Synergistic Research "Element Copper" front speaker cable. Cardas Clear Light bal interconnects.
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post #7299 of 7319 Old 09-26-2014, 07:34 AM
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I think there is a LOT of logic in Theta offering a USB input card for the CB IV.

Egglestonworks Andra III, Andra III Centre, Rosa (as surround). Rel Stentor II. Theta CB IV. Krell FPB 200 and two KAV 150a amps. Custom-built audio server. Oppo 103EU. Apple TV. Pioneer PDP-LX608D. Synergistic Research "Element Copper" front speaker cable. Cardas Clear Light bal interconnects.
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post #7300 of 7319 Old 09-26-2014, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ANRE View Post
Very good suggestion. It,s on "over time" to have such an app. And if i remember correctly U have already done some good work here

As far as I understand iRule is present the best rs232 controller. \
I was determined to make it work. Where I am not as capable is graphic design or gui design. If we had someone good at this, combined, we could build our own.

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post #7301 of 7319 Old 09-26-2014, 04:51 PM
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Just don't sit on it
I will have to put it in some sort of case. Typically, I buy the case before I get the phone. Even if it were the most durable phone on the market, I'd likely destroy it without a case.

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post #7302 of 7319 Old 09-26-2014, 08:33 PM
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I just have an observation....
I subscribe to all the audio magazines..and just opened one with the 'Top' components in it...
They list Bryston, Meridian, Krell..etc...but no Theta! No in the A, B, C or D List!
I have noticed this time and time again...no Casablanca, or Dreadnaught..nothing.
It's like Theta doesn't exist! WHY?
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post #7303 of 7319 Old 09-27-2014, 04:40 AM
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Theta Gen v8 users.....

I'm very close to purchasing one if these to add to my RS20i. Now a quick question regarding volume control. How do you guys with CBs and Gens control the volume? I have an option on my RS20i to enable digital volume. I'm wondering if this will allow me to control the volume out of the gen dac with the same control as the dacs built into the RS20i.

Else I guess I'll have to run some kind of macro from my control system.
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post #7304 of 7319 Old 09-27-2014, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dancjodanc View Post
I just have an observation....
I subscribe to all the audio magazines..and just opened one with the 'Top' components in it...
They list Bryston, Meridian, Krell..etc...but no Theta! No in the A, B, C or D List!
I have noticed this time and time again...no Casablanca, or Dreadnaught..nothing.
It's like Theta doesn't exist! WHY?
Because Stereophile has not reviewed any Theta gear recently. They only include gear they have reviewed. I believe Kal requested a CB for review, but Theta passed up on the offer.
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post #7305 of 7319 Old 09-27-2014, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post
For those with the CBIV, what the final verdict on engaging Jitter Jail II with HDMI sources? Do you hear an improvement? This was new engineering for Theta, and I am curious if it made a difference.

Because I use coaxial connections (S/PDIF and BNC) for "pure" audio and HDMI only for movies, I cannot usefully comment on the Jitter Jail II/HDMI combination other than to say that there is remarkable clarity do my movies' audio tracks -- much more so than with my former IIIHD. However, I also employ the IV's Dirac room equalization all the time, so EVERYTHING sounds clearer.

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post #7306 of 7319 Old 09-27-2014, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by edorr View Post
Because Stereophile has not reviewed any Theta gear recently. They only include gear they have reviewed. I believe Kal requested a CB for review, but Theta passed up on the offer.

Perhaps someone from ATI/Theta Digital could comment on that. When the ATI amplifiers are reviewed, they receive accolades, and, based on my still limited experience with the Casablanca IV, I expect it, too, would be very positively reviewed.


I believe Gary Reber (Widescreen Review) now has a IV in his possession. Perhaps his magazine will run an equipment review of this preamplifier/processor/equalizer.

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post #7307 of 7319 Old 09-27-2014, 12:54 PM
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post
I would not be interested. I use Irule with Ipads and Iphones. The new Iphone 6 plus looks perfect for use as a remote. Theta needs to develop a module for Irule. Something like the Sono would be awesome http://iruleathome.com/apps/sonos-module

I strongly second that suggestion! I have started to use my iPhone to control my OPPO -- thanks to that company's app. It works superbly and is much more convenient, obviously, than lugging to my couch the admittedly excellent remote controller that comes with the player.

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post #7308 of 7319 Old 09-27-2014, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post
I'm very close to purchasing one if these to add to my RS20i. Now a quick question regarding volume control. How do you guys with CBs and Gens control the volume? I have an option on my RS20i to enable digital volume. I'm wondering if this will allow me to control the volume out of the gen dac with the same control as the dacs built into the RS20i.
I think it means the RS20i will scale the signal in the digital domain prior to the digital output. You lose at most about 3 bits of DSP noise floor, assuming you have about 20 dB volume control range above 0. Should be of no consequence in a 24-bit system, but that assumes the 16-bit HDCP wordlength limit (if that applies) is applied prior to the digital volume process.

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post #7309 of 7319 Old 09-27-2014, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
I think it means the RS20i will scale the signal in the digital domain prior to the digital output. You lose at most about 3 bits of DSP noise floor, assuming you have about 20 dB volume control range above 0. Should be of no consequence in a 24-bit system, but that assumes the 16-bit HDCP wordlength limit (if that applies) is applied prior to the digital volume process.
I think you also have to take the level/trim control into account since, I assume, Datasat does it the digital domain. Meridian has an exotic analog/digital hybrid trim control to help minimize bit loss, the only company I know that does this.

Also doesn't the Theta DAC have a volume control in the analog domain? If so you could use this to possibly minimize use of the Datasat trim control.

One thing I have always wondered about in using a external DAC only for only the L/R is how it would blend with the Center channel. Assuming the DAC makes an appreciable difference it might not be ideal when you using all three front channels??
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post #7310 of 7319 Old 09-27-2014, 06:48 PM
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I think you also have to take the level/trim control into account since, I assume, Datasat does it the digital domain. Meridian has an exotic analog/digital hybrid trim control to help minimize bit loss, the only company I know that does this.
My assumption is that for the analog output path the Datasat operates like all other AV processors, where the trims and volume are all handled in the same analog volume control.

Quote:
Also doesn't the Theta DAC have a volume control in the analog domain? If so you could use this to possibly minimize use of the Datasat trim control.
Yes, it has an analog volume control. I was just addressing the question of the Datasat's digital volume control in the event it is not easy to coordinate control of the external Theta control with the rest of the RS20i's internal analog channels.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
I think it means the RS20i will scale the signal in the digital domain prior to the digital output. You lose at most about 3 bits of DSP noise floor, assuming you have about 20 dB volume control range above 0. Should be of no consequence in a 24-bit system, but that assumes the 16-bit HDCP wordlength limit (if that applies) is applied prior to the digital volume process.
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
My assumption is that for the analog output path the Datasat operates like all other AV processors, where the trims and volume are all handled in the same analog volume control.

Yes, it has an analog volume control. I was just addressing the question of the Datasat's digital volume control in the event it is not easy to coordinate control of the external Theta control with the rest of the RS20i's internal analog channels.
Thanks Roger. But I'm still not sure if this will allow me to use the Datasat to control the volume of the external dac or if I'll have to run a macro to adjust both the volume on the dac and the rs20i.

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One thing I have always wondered about in using a external DAC only for only the L/R is how it would blend with the Center channel. Assuming the DAC makes an appreciable difference it might not be ideal when you using all three front channels??
This concerns me also. I also wonder if it's a worthy upgrade if 90 % of my listening is movies and tv. I virtually never listen to stereo music. I'm thinking perhaps the money is better spent elsewhere....
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post #7312 of 7319 Old 09-28-2014, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by GGA View Post
One thing I have always wondered about in using a external DAC only for only the L/R is how it would blend with the Center channel. Assuming the DAC makes an appreciable difference it might not be ideal when you using all three front channels??
This is a very good point and the answer is no, not in my opinion. Timbre matching for the front 3 of a video system, at least to my ears and of course IMHO, is at a gross ("macro") level, whereas the nutty audiophilia differences, that come with the Gen VIII, tend to be at a minute level, yet equally significant, for 2 channel music audio. (Except for the bass, which is just out of this world for any Theta stand alone DAC.)

In my own experience: I happen to have 2 center speakers that I alternate, Thiel MCS vs. Aerial CC5, as far as timbre matching for smooth panning, etc., it has been extremely hard for me to tell between when the Aerial CC5 is there vs. Thiel MCS. Timbre matching is not an easy issue: even within a speaker line, I've found that my small Thiel speaker has different timbre than my Thiel tower, and the old Thiel sounds different than the new Thiel. Thankfully, my ears do not detect these differences well.

And yes I did make a distinction between audio vs. video. *Not* to say at all that I am right, just how I do it: my standard when evaluate 2 channel audio (image focus, front soundstage layers, transparency) is at a totally different level, and in many ways much more stringent, than video. The picture of a video system tends to overwhelm the minute differences that are so important in an audiophilia evaluation. Taking us back to your original question, and my answer: IMHO, no, Gen VIII for those so lucky is not going to hurt anything!

Regards, Can
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post #7313 of 7319 Old 09-28-2014, 10:14 AM
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This is a very good point and the answer is no, not in my opinion. Timbre matching for the front 3 of a video system, at least to my ears and of course IMHO, is at a gross ("macro") level, whereas the nutty audiophilia differences, that come with the Gen VIII, tend to be at a minute level, yet equally significant, for 2 channel music audio. (Except for the bass, which is just out of this world for any Theta stand alone DAC.)

In my own experience: I happen to have 2 center speakers that I alternate, Thiel MCS vs. Aerial CC5, as far as timbre matching for smooth panning, etc., it has been extremely hard for me to tell between when the Aerial CC5 is there vs. Thiel MCS. Timbre matching is not an easy issue: even within a speaker line, I've found that my small Thiel speaker has different timbre than my Thiel tower, and the old Thiel sounds different than the new Thiel. Thankfully, my ears do not detect these differences well.

And yes I did make a distinction between audio vs. video. *Not* to say at all that I am right, just how I do it: my standard when evaluate 2 channel audio (image focus, front soundstage layers, transparency) is at a totally different level, and in many ways much more stringent, than video. The picture of a video system tends to overwhelm the minute difference of an audiophilia evaluation. Taking us back to your original question, and answer: IMHO, no Gen VIII for those so lucky is not going to affect the timbre matching.
Thanks.

So if you were in my position and listen to mainly movies and tv 99 % multichannel content! would you still add a gen 8 or should I spend the money else where.
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post #7314 of 7319 Old 09-28-2014, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post
Thanks Roger. But I'm still not sure if this will allow me to use the Datasat to control the volume of the external dac or if I'll have to run a macro to adjust both the volume on the dac and the rs20i.



This concerns me also. I also wonder if it's a worthy upgrade if 90 % of my listening is movies and tv. I virtually never listen to stereo music. I'm thinking perhaps the money is better spent elsewhere....
Have made some responses in the Datasat thread, as more appropriate there.
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This concerns me also. I also wonder if it's a worthy upgrade if 90 % of my listening is movies and tv. I virtually never listen to stereo music. I'm thinking perhaps the money is better spent elsewhere....
Nick, if you hardly listen to music, I tend to agree with you and would vote no also. For 2 reasons, one and primarily, value of Gen VIII is when used with Casablanca, where there is no digital volume attenuation (done in analog domain), and two, not that it won't be better, but there is the law of diminishing return.

IMHO, the value of the Gen VIII with Theta Casablanca is primarily for seasoned audiophiles whose system is combined 50/50 music and video, and who look for nutty things rarely mentioned in video evaluation such as transparency, background blackness, image focus, soundstage layers, etc., etc. (It's SOTA 2 channel audio where it does not have much competition.) If these words are not in your vocabulary, it's probably not worth it.

As mentioned above, for me anyway I wear totally different hats when I evaluate audio vs. video (not to say it's the right way, it's just how I approach it). Although audio and video sonic evaluations cross at many levels (smoothness, fullness of voice and instruments, quietness of front soundstage, dynamics, etc.), they don't cross at others, where audio evaluation for me is MUCH more stringent. That's where the Gen VIII will shine; a card with x channels in any SSP is unlikely to ever match a stand-alone audiophile DAC with its robust power supply and analog output stage design, let alone the hallow :-) Theta Gen VIII.

Regards, Can
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post #7316 of 7319 Old 09-28-2014, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post
This is a very good point and the answer is no, not in my opinion. Timbre matching for the front 3 of a video system, at least to my ears and of course IMHO, is at a gross ("macro") level, whereas the nutty audiophilia differences, that come with the Gen VIII, tend to be at a minute level, yet equally significant, for 2 channel music audio. (Except for the bass, which is just out of this world for any Theta stand alone DAC.)

In my own experience: I happen to have 2 center speakers that I alternate, Thiel MCS vs. Aerial CC5, as far as timbre matching for smooth panning, etc., it has been extremely hard for me to tell between when the Aerial CC5 is there vs. Thiel MCS. Timbre matching is not an easy issue: even within a speaker line, I've found that my small Thiel speaker has different timbre than my Thiel tower, and the old Thiel sounds different than the new Thiel. Thankfully, my ears do not detect these differences well.

And yes I did make a distinction between audio vs. video. *Not* to say at all that I am right, just how I do it: my standard when evaluate 2 channel audio (image focus, front soundstage layers, transparency) is at a totally different level, and in many ways much more stringent, than video. The picture of a video system tends to overwhelm the minute differences that are so important in an audiophilia evaluation. Taking us back to your original question, and my answer: IMHO, no, Gen VIII for those so lucky is not going to hurt anything!
Can, I am with you on everything you say.

But the only way, I think, to be certain is to bring in a Gen VIII for the Center and listen...............
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post #7317 of 7319 Old 09-28-2014, 10:40 AM
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Well perhaps I may just spend the money that was going to go on a second hand dac and put it into a clock upgrade on an msb umt plus... Or perhaps take the mrs away for a 3 week vacation in the Maldives. Life is hard at times.
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post #7318 of 7319 Old Yesterday, 09:24 AM
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Well perhaps I may just spend the money that was going to go on a second hand dac and put it into a clock upgrade on an msb umt plus... Or perhaps take the mrs away for a 3 week vacation in the Maldives. Life is hard at times.


Nice. I would also add magical Bora Bora to list of possible destinations; it could be a life changing event :-) because once you swim in a Bora Bora lagoon, nothing will ever be the same again. Definitely, you won't care what DAC is waiting for you at home.
PS Yes the water is that clear and there is no wave, just numerous beautiful fish and corral.



Regards, Can
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post #7319 of 7319 Old Yesterday, 04:00 PM
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Can, I am with you on everything you say.

But the only way, I think, to be certain is to bring in a Gen VIII for the Center and listen...............
I use GenVIII also for the Center channel and there´s no turning back...
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