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post #7861 of 7880 Old 02-28-2015, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post
Probably not as much as you might think. I hope your not expecting there not to be any differences? Stereophile finds differences between cables, wire, so I would fully expect them to find the differences here as well between two amps that have different power supplies and input stages and even cases. Who knows how much the dampening of the cases and cones used on each case might impact the sound??? Don't misunderstand my comments. Stereophile is my favorite publication. I have always saved my new issues for vacation travel. Pack clothes and get the latest copy of Stereophile for the plane ride! Always a way to start a great vacation!
Kev

The story with Hypex and Hypex Done right as far as Theta sees it is that it doesn't work nearly as well with a Switching Supply. When you front end it with a Huge Linear like theta has done on the Prometheus and the Dreadnaught 4 the game changes.

Dave Reich for years tried to get the NCore 1200 to sound awesome and couldn't do it.. He wanted to use a Switching supply because the weight would have been great but after years of working with this module he finally struck gold when he coupled it with his Linear Design.. There was no reason for Dave to do this like he did except for Sonics.. They found that when pumped with Linear the NC1200 comes alive.. I knew it the minute I heard the Prometheus and now people that have them are all saying the same thing.. Stereophile of course helps by writing such nice things but we all knew months back that the Prometheus were great.. On Aerials/Josephs and quite a few others we are stunned and dumbfounded how good the amps sound..

The Dreadnaught 4 should accomplish almost the same thing and in some respects can do more. Considering the Dread 4 can be ordered with up to 4 modules that can be Bridged to 2XNC1200's delivering 400WPS@8 X 4 Modules.

Yesterday a customer configured a really nice Dread 4 like this -
3 Bridged Stereo Modules 400WPC X 3
1 Stereo Module 225X2
A super charged 5 channel amp.

Does anyone need to bridge a Hypex Module and have 400WPC into one channel, I don't know.. I used to think so but if you ask Steve Bruzonsky how his Prometheus performs with 250 WPC VS his Prior Citadel at 425 WPC.. He will take the Prometheus all day long..

Prometheus feels like 500WPC from anything I have ever heard in the past and I don't really know why but it does.

The Theta Ncore solution they have produced with the Dread 4 and Prometheus is going to change the amplifier industry forever. My opinion of course

CRaig

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post #7863 of 7880 Old 02-28-2015, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by VGI View Post
Guys

I want to clear some things up with the Dacs..

Okay as for right now here is the word -

New Xtreme X3 (may be called something else) which is built on the Gen 8 S3 tech.. This dac is 6 channels and will be able to be inserted in a CB3HD and CB4.. You can use 2 of them in a CB3HD or Cb4 and you will have 12 channel using just 2 cards... You can not insert more than two 6 channel cards in these machines before the architecture is designed for 12 channels..The benefit here is that you can achieve 12 channels in 2 cards and that will lower cost of entry big time.. The new dacs are progressing well and we should be shipping them hopefully in the next 90-120 days..

Wait till you see it.. Its Gorgeous and is a modular design unlike anything you've seen from Theta in the past.. I am not sure what the modularity will allow for the future but the Dac cards are on a removable locking carrier that is really nice..

For people who need more than 12 channels.. The Casablanca 5 will be just that.. That will have a new motherboard which will allow for 3 of the 6 Channel Dac cards to be inserted for 18 internal channels.. You can get to even more channels by using the external expansion where you can have more of the 6 channel X3 cards and keep going.. Not sure if 24 or 32 will be the max but it will be up there.

The CB4A is simply a CB4 with the PR5 processor allowing for Atmos and hopefully Auro and X as well in the future..

The CB3HD and CB4 are rock solid right now and with the new dacs make them fantastic machines with amazing upgradability as time progresses.

Hope this clarifies things a bit

Craig

What will happen if one has no plans to go beyond vanilla 7.1 channels. Will Theta be making the new Xtreme x3 Dacs available for the CB3HD or CB4 for the 8 channels as in the 'ole' days?
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post #7864 of 7880 Old 02-28-2015, 11:17 PM
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I would love to actually hear the benefits of ncore with a linear supply from theta vs ncore with a switched mode supply like NAD's m27 which i own now for surround duties.

For mains, i have swapped to the benchmark ahb2 which i am finding is a bit smoother and defintely less noisy (hiss noise floor) than the ncore based NAD M22.

I don't suppose anyone knows a loaner set of promethius making the rounds to try head to head against the AHB2? I really don't need higher wattage since I have horn mains. I am only concerned about overall fidelity.

To date, the AHB2 is certainly the quietest and best amp i have heard so far. I am not "married" to it however, if there might be better.
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post #7865 of 7880 Old Yesterday, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by VGI View Post
Kev

The story with Hypex and Hypex Done right as far as Theta sees it is that it doesn't work nearly as well with a Switching Supply. When you front end it with a Huge Linear like theta has done on the Prometheus and the Dreadnaught 4 the game changes.

CRaig
I know several non-Theta engineers into high end audio who have explained this to me as well. They are not surprised why the Prometheus sounds so fantastic given the engineering and Huge Linear power supply.

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post #7866 of 7880 Old Yesterday, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by VGI View Post
Kev

Does anyone need to bridge a Hypex Module and have 400WPC into one channel, I don't know.. I used to think so but if you ask Steve Bruzonsky how his Prometheus performs with 250 WPC VS his Prior Citadel at 425 WPC.. He will take the Prometheus all day long..

Prometheus feels like 500WPC from anything I have ever heard in the past and I don't really know why but it does.

The Theta Ncore solution they have produced with the Dread 4 and Prometheus is going to change the amplifier industry forever. My opinion of course

CRaig
I must agree as Theta's first delivery of any of the Prometheus monoblocks over a year ago, and I ordered three and a day later two more!!@@@ I do not plan to bridge a Hypex module, do not feel the need at all.

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post #7867 of 7880 Old Yesterday, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
Ideal for Equitech balanced power eh?
You can order Prometheus/Dreadnaught 4 and tell us how you like it. Me, I plug each Prometheus amp straight into the wall each monoblock into its own 20 amp circuit, not wanting to restrict any of the current draw.

You mean you don't remember me? Back 1999 - 2003, I started and moderated the AVS Tweaks forum and also the AVS Special Guests forum.

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post #7868 of 7880 Old Yesterday, 02:52 PM
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
You can order Prometheus/Dreadnaught 4 and tell us how you like it. Me, I plug each Prometheus amp straight into the wall each monoblock into its own 20 amp circuit, not wanting to restrict any of the current draw.
I like your new Galactic avatar Steve.

I'm definitely considering for future projects (unfortunately they are all under construction 1-2 years to complete).

When one does not use switching power supplies the Equitech should be able to augment your direct outlet's power reserves and lower any noise floors - not that they are there.

Unfortunately nowadays most amp manufacturers use switching PSU's. I prefer non switching for amps like you guys have.
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post #7869 of 7880 Old Yesterday, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
You can order Prometheus/Dreadnaught 4 and tell us how you like it. Me, I plug each Prometheus amp straight into the wall each monoblock into its own 20 amp circuit, not wanting to restrict any of the current draw.
I am going to order the Dreadnaught IV 7 channels of it tomorrow. Thanks you folks have convinced me to try it out.

I will be plugging mine into a Furman power sequencer. With a dedicated 50 amp line. That is what my whole theater runs off of. Except the lighting of course. I will then be using two twenty amp circuits on that to run the Dreadnaught. Question for you Steve. Do you leave your Prometheus on all the time? And now a question to you all. This will be the first time having an amp with two separate plugs. If I sequence the two plugs on separate will this cause a problem? Or should I change the jumpers in the sequencer so that they both come on at the same time? Or should I not sequence it off at all and let it go into standby? Or leave it on? I have all these choices. This sequencer is pretty awesome.
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post #7870 of 7880 Old Yesterday, 05:29 PM
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I am going to order the Dreadnaught IV 7 channels of it tomorrow. Thanks you folks have convinced me to try it out.

I will be plugging mine into a Furman power sequencer. With a dedicated 50 amp line. That is what my whole theater runs off of. Except the lighting of course. I will then be using two twenty amp circuits on that to run the Dreadnaught. Question for you Steve. Do you leave your Prometheus on all the time? And now a question to you all. This will be the first time having an amp with two separate plugs. If I sequence the two plugs on separate will this cause a problem? Or should I change the jumpers in the sequencer so that they both come on at the same time? Or should I not sequence it off at all and let it go into standby? Or leave it on? I have all these choices. This sequencer is pretty awesome.
I leave my five Prometheus on standby when I am not actively using them. The button on the front turns on or standby. Switch on the back turns off or back onto standby, with button on front being hit to turn back on. I had an installer buddy set up a manual switch I hit which turns all amps on from standby at the same time. I change stuff too much so haven't had everything on one remote for some time - though at some point I'll probably go iRule.

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post #7871 of 7880 Old Yesterday, 08:42 PM
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Ok thanks Steve
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post #7872 of 7880 Old Today, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
I must agree as Theta's first delivery of any of the Prometheus monoblocks over a year ago, and I ordered three and a day later two more!!@@@ I do not plan to bridge a Hypex module, do not feel the need at all.
It's going to be system dependent. My speakers are 8ohm speakers with 86db sensitivity. As you know I'm thrilled with them, Mcintosh XR200s, but they need big power amps to run full range for movies. Most guys cross-over to subs so they don't need to power to belt out 20Hz. I do.

Never become so involved with something that it blinds you.
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post #7873 of 7880 Old Today, 06:59 AM
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Who knows how much the dampening of the cases and cones used on each case might impact the sound???
Now you it's your turn to visit cuckoo land

One of my stupidest 'audiophile' purchases was a set Wave Kinetics A10-U8 to place under my Krell FPB-200. I've left them there as a very visible reminder of the complete BS which populates this industry.

(I work in banking and we've been persecuted because people were stupid enough to borrow more than they could repay as they all thought property was a one-way bet; a mentality which still exists and continues to be rewarded in the UK. It was of course all the bankers fault when it went wrong. Regulators should turn their attention to the misselling in the audiophile industry - and likely would were it not that it affects so few and mostly those with reasonable levels of money.

Anyway, I know that John shares the same interest in comparing the amps. It would be interesting to see what they conjured up if they did.

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post #7874 of 7880 Old Today, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by VGI View Post
Kev

The story with Hypex and Hypex Done right as far as Theta sees it is that it doesn't work nearly as well with a Switching Supply. When you front end it with a Huge Linear like theta has done on the Prometheus and the Dreadnaught 4 the game changes.

Dave Reich for years tried to get the NCore 1200 to sound awesome and couldn't do it.. He wanted to use a Switching supply because the weight would have been great but after years of working with this module he finally struck gold when he coupled it with his Linear Design.. There was no reason for Dave to do this like he did except for Sonics.. They found that when pumped with Linear the NC1200 comes alive..
Craig, you know I think you are a good guy but seriously this is just one of those posts which pushes a mantra yet doesn't substantiate it. Designing a linear power supply is about the easiest part of designing an amp. (In contrast, designing a very good switching PSU is considerably harder.) A good, unbiased side-by-side comparison is the only way to see if Bruno's modules 'come alive' with a linear supply. I've yet to hear one shred of credible technical defence of why the linear supply would sound better and Bruno himself has put forward a number of technical reasons why the switch-mode supply has certain advantages. So...to continue the discussion please provide technical input rather than sales babble.
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post #7875 of 7880 Old Today, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by VGI View Post
New Xtreme X3 (may be called something else) which is built on the Gen 8 S3 tech.. This dac is 6 channels and will be able to be inserted in a CB3HD and CB4.. You can use 2 of them in a CB3HD or Cb4 and you will have 12 channel using just 2 cards... You can not insert more than two 6 channel cards in these machines before the architecture is designed for 12 channels..The benefit here is that you can achieve 12 channels in 2 cards and that will lower cost of entry big time.. The new dacs are progressing well and we should be shipping them hopefully in the next 90-120 days..
God, so we've done a full circle on this? Now the new X3 does fit in a CB IV. There's a lot to be said for getting things like this right from the start. It's not that hard. I'll bet the engineers didn't suddenly compress the board...

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post #7876 of 7880 Old Today, 07:56 AM
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Craig

When is the new HMDI card ready for order ? (Can it be ordered together with a CB3 HD upgrade to 4 now).
Will it work together with the old HMDI card, or will I have to replace it ?
Price ?
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post #7877 of 7880 Old Today, 10:03 AM
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God, so we've done a full circle on this? Now the new X3 does fit in a CB IV. There's a lot to be said for getting things like this right from the start. It's not that hard. I'll bet the engineers didn't suddenly compress the board...
Are you manic depressive? (this is a joke!) I have never known anyone who had more advise for a company like Theta as to how they should run their business. I think Theta owner ATI-Morris Kessler and Theta President David Reich are doing a marvelous job without your frequent bouts of telling them how they should be running their company. (not kidding on this part)

You mean you don't remember me? Back 1999 - 2003, I started and moderated the AVS Tweaks forum and also the AVS Special Guests forum.

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post #7878 of 7880 Old Today, 10:06 AM
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(I work in banking and we've been persecuted because people were stupid enough to borrow more than they could repay as they all thought property was a one-way bet; a mentality which still exists and continues to be rewarded in the UK. It was of course all the bankers fault when it went wrong. Regulators should turn their attention to the misselling in the audiophile industry - and likely would were it not that it affects so few and mostly those with reasonable levels of money.
Its happening again here in the U.S.

I agree folks shouldn't buy what they can't afford. But it is a given in society that when you make credit cards and home buying too lax the folks will come. On the other hand, don't those in the banking industry bear any responsibility for making oodles of money by extending credit to those who they know will for the most part come up short on the loans or credit cards later on?

Back to audio!!@@@

You mean you don't remember me? Back 1999 - 2003, I started and moderated the AVS Tweaks forum and also the AVS Special Guests forum.

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post #7879 of 7880 Unread Today, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by stevekale View Post
Craig, you know I think you are a good guy but seriously this is just one of those posts which pushes a mantra yet doesn't substantiate it. Designing a linear power supply is about the easiest part of designing an amp. (In contrast, designing a very good switching PSU is considerably harder.) A good, unbiased side-by-side comparison is the only way to see if Bruno's modules 'come alive' with a linear supply. I've yet to hear one shred of credible technical defence of why the linear supply would sound better and Bruno himself has put forward a number of technical reasons why the switch-mode supply has certain advantages. So...to continue the discussion please provide technical input rather than sales babble.
Well I'm not going to say there is no technical benefit to a linear supply over a SMPS. I would need to do some tests including some careful listening myself. So if one had not at least compared a SMPS version to a linear version listening wise, we really don't know.

The sales factor has to be considered here. If Theta also used the OEM power supply, then what did Theta contribute to the product? The expensive case metalwork? Perhaps they could throw in some magic internal wiring too.

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post #7880 of 7880 Unread Today, 11:42 AM
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Bruno actually did throw in some magic wiring in his Mola Mola amps if I am not mistaken.
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