The official "Theta" thread - Page 274 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8191 of 8219 Old 04-27-2015, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
If you can afford that, then you can afford to have a stack of Theta Gen VIII Series 3 DACs for your CBIV! And a mix of Prometheus and Dreadnaught D for your Dolby Atmos lotsa speakers setup!!@@@ I wanna see that picture!

You are definitely supercharged: A Sim2 C3X Super Lumis. A pair of Prometheus monoblocks supercharged with Tesla battery power for your Tesla. Now supercharge your CBIV SSP with stacks of Theta Gen VIII Series 3 DACs!!!.

You should know that in Norway a Tesla Model S is about half the price of a Jeep Grand Cherokee V8! I am not kidding...

And yes the Gen8 is good! But no stack of them, "only" two...
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post #8192 of 8219 Old 04-27-2015, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Armand07 View Post

And yes the Gen8 is good! But no stack of them, "only" two...
Two Gen VIIIs in the same system, with a CBIV?

You mean you don't remember me? Back 1999 - 2003, I started and moderated the AVS Tweaks forum and also the AVS Special Guests forum.

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post #8193 of 8219 Old 04-27-2015, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by stevekale View Post
PS: any of you guys in the US run 220V to your audio gear? (I understand the street to house voltage in the US is circa 220V and that it only gets lowered to 110V at the junction box.)
Residential* power in the USA is basically from a center tapped transformer. It's 240v with a grounded center tap so you get 120v from the center to either end. Large appliances such as ranges, water heaters, HVAC condensers use 240v. Also some higher end home wood shops have 240v tool motors for efficiency.

Yes you can easily run 240v capable audio gear on a residential 240v circuit. And with a large linear power amp, it will be more efficient and actually perform a bit better due to less voltage drop. There is one minor flaw in that many audio devices only have a single pole power switch and fuse. This is technically not legal on a 240v device in the USA but it's not really a problem either. But it's still rare in high end audio because very few really need that much power.

* There are exceptions in newer large apartment buildings. Here they often divide up three phase 208/120 across the units so your "240v" is actually only 208v. Same issue if in a three phase commercial setting.

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post #8194 of 8219 Old 04-27-2015, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Armand07 View Post
Hi guys,

got to show you a cool picture. Prometheus supercharged with Tesla battery power!
time to get the hose and sponge out

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post #8195 of 8219 Old 04-28-2015, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Two Gen VIIIs in the same system, with a CBIV?
yes
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post #8196 of 8219 Old 04-28-2015, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by stevekale View Post
Which is why I am also looking forward to hearing reports regarding Bruno's impact on DACs - if it impresses as much as the claimed specs then I am sure Theta will be chomping at the bit to leverage it also into a next-Generation (excuse the pun) stereo reference DAC.

I wonder which will be first, Dirac Unison or a Bruno-based replacement for the Gen VIII. The former is being actively pursued and I bet the latter is being actively monitored/anticipated.


Steve, are you saying Theta is working on adding Dirac Unison? If true, very interesting.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f2...ces2014-18972/
Well, Unity is a tentative name for this new technology because a number of speakers will work in unison...

While we believe that Dirac Live offers the best possible solution as a state of the art Digital Room Correction, our researchers have found that if no cost constraints are imposed we can even go beyond Digital Room Correction with a new radical approach we call Active Room Treatment.
At this time I cannot disclose any deep technical details but I can say that it is based on ideas from the fields of active noise control, sound field synthesis and room correction where our company has conducted research for many years.

You may rightfully ask why did we have a booth at the CES if we want to keep it "undisclosed"

This really radical approach has substantial hardware and processing requirements (several channels and speakers are involved even if reproducing a stereo signal) and will consequently have a substantial price tag.
As of now we offer Active Room Treatment to Dirac Live OEM licensees only, for them to be able to offer something on the absolute leading edge to their customers.
For example Datasat which is a current Dirac OEM licensee is indeed eligible to offer this to their customers.
(it is however their decision if they would like to do so)

I anyhow expect that carefully weighted pages about this technology will be available soon in the Dirac site.
Ciao, Flavio

Regards, Can
Theta: Stunning 3D soundstage, sublime details, unlimited dynamics and low end response - the processor for music lovers. My system & CBIII HD review & setup help - Post # 3913 and Diagrams & Surround Speaker Rec. Here
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post #8197 of 8219 Old 04-28-2015, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by stevekale View Post
On a different note, who would you guys recommend for "acoustic design"? It may be awhile off but I have always had in my mind to build a room into a new-build house for my audio gear. I'm not a fan of "home theatres". Well, they're fine if you can have them PLUS what I would like, but two sets of high end gear pushes budget boundaries. What I have in mind is a large room with dual functionality built in. I would want it to serve as my 'office' at one end and audio room at the other. A place where I can enjoy my system while pottering around with other things and yet also be able to sit down for a dedicated listening session/movie. The audio end would be at least 7.1 but imagine a single 3-seater couch rather than a pile of lazy-boy chairs with cup holders. I'd also like the room to be well-lit with natural light but capable of being blacked out.
It almost seems like you are describing my room - 20 x 23 x 8 feet. The right side is my audio-video system, the left side is my small "office." The 2 sides "divided" by my record collection. My criteria when buying this house was first, view of coast, second, large audio room (really); the first criteria was fairly easy, the second one was not because room this big usually needs to be added on to a house. So yes, you might have to add on the room but there are houses with ready-made large entertainment rooms, at least here in California, just not many.

I use blackout honeycomb screen for windows treatment (yes they do black out the room) so the room is completely "convertible": sunlit one moment, near total blackout the next. Like you, I only like to have one row of theater chairs (not couch because the chair could be leaned back and tends to have firmer/"better" back support), making the room totally functional for "normal" people. My college-age kids hang out in the room often to read, do homework, etc..

One comment I would add is that it's harder to fill this large of a room with sound - so your speakers are going to work much harder. My Thiel towers sound very different going from my previous smaller room to this large room, a lot less "punchy" in the low end and in general not as loud at same volume.


Regards, Can
Theta: Stunning 3D soundstage, sublime details, unlimited dynamics and low end response - the processor for music lovers. My system & CBIII HD review & setup help - Post # 3913 and Diagrams & Surround Speaker Rec. Here
Give vinyl and tube preamp a try - the sound from heaven! :-)

Last edited by cannga; 04-28-2015 at 10:55 PM.
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post #8198 of 8219 Old 04-28-2015, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Armand07 View Post

Two Gen VIIIs in the same system, with a CBIV? yes
Are you using the second Gen VIII for center and subwoofer like I am (I have an AES/EBU splitter connected to my CBIV)
(just got my second one last Saturday and glad I did it!).

Woops, Just got my third Gen VIII for surround left and right today!

Imagine a Dolby Atmos system with all Gen VIIIs!

You mean you don't remember me? Back 1999 - 2003, I started and moderated the AVS Tweaks forum and also the AVS Special Guests forum.

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post #8199 of 8219 Old 04-28-2015, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Are you using the second Gen VIII for center and subwoofer like I am (I have an AES/EBU splitter connected to my CBIV)
(just got my second one last Saturday and glad I did it!).

Woops, Just got my third Gen VIII for surround left and right today!

Imagine a Dolby Atmos system with all Gen VIIIs!
Hey Steve,

Wow! OK, three Gen VIIIs! Are you noticing any major differences? Impressions? I wonder how close the new 6 channel Extreme DAC will compare?

Dave

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post #8200 of 8219 Old 04-28-2015, 07:13 PM
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Hey Steve,

Wow! OK, three Gen VIIIs! Are you noticing any major differences? Impressions? I wonder how close the new 6 channel Extreme DAC will compare?

Dave
Right now have two Gen VIIIs hooked up, for front left and right as I've had since 2011, and now for front center and subwoofer ( using a DH Labs Silver Sonic analog AES/EBU splitter). Just got this up late Saturday night. Noticing the cohesiveness of the front end, with voicing appreciably easier to differentiate and hear from "background" music, etc and that's because of the perfect equality of the sonics across the front soundstage. And I'm hearing stuff like drums and instruments clearer than before. And this is just on DirecTV Dolby Digital tv stuff.
Its only been a few days and not much time to listen yet. Bottom line is when your front left and right are appreciably better sounding that your center and surrounds, your ear/brain tends to be drawn to what you hear from the front left and right, and when watching movies/tv you tend to turn up louder to hear the voices clearly - but with equal sonics at all 5 main vectors, your ear/brain isn't pulled to any one vector. This is why my multi-channel music in some ways sounded better circa 2005 - 2011 using the CB3 with Six Shooter, because during that time period I had 5 Bryston 7B amps, later 5 Theta Enterprise amps, with my then Theta Compli DVD Universal player analog multi-channel outputs into the Six Shooter. Sure, my system improvements at the front left and right since then gave me overall much better sonics on most stuff - but not on multi-channel SACDs like in the old days. Even with my current computer HDMI music server, yea HDMI sounds wonderful (but not near as good as USB stereo into Berkeley USB to digital converter), but when I put on rips of multi-channel SACDs, as DSD files, I can always tell the lack of cohesiveness from the back surround end. My favorite multi-channel music demo disc, "Jazzin Surround" Heads Up/Telarc records, overall sounded best in the old days using the Theta Compli DVD Universal analog out into Six Shooter into five Enterprise amps. Now, I will have the glory and sonics of the very best front left and right sonics, with the same quality sonics at the front center and surrounds (not to mention subs), and I know from experience in the "old" days how this will match and mesh.
Its gonna be fun and yea once I get the last Gen VIII set up you must come over!

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post #8201 of 8219 Old 04-29-2015, 12:55 AM
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Steve,
that´s incredible. Congrats! I agree completely about what you are saying about the benefits of adding more Gen8s, especially when you already have one for L+R. What you mentioned about splitter, did you mean that you split the sub signal from the Gen8 to your two subs in front? I prefer not to do that since Dirac Live handles each sub indiviually and I think the overall result is better when treating them separately. But this could also be depending on your room and location of the subs of course.

The 2nd Gen8 here is used for Center+Sub1. I find it quite easy to hear the difference with Gen8 and the current Xtreme DAC with subwoofers only as the Gen8 is doing the job so well. So now there is actually a little gap in quality between sub1 and sub2,3... Clearly one reason why it will be interesting when the new Xtremes arrive. Just too big investment at the moment to have Gen8s for all channels! And with Atmos it would take 8 of them for a 7.4.4 setup!

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post #8202 of 8219 Old 04-29-2015, 08:34 AM
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Steve,
that´s incredible. Congrats! I agree completely about what you are saying about the benefits of adding more Gen8s, especially when you already have one for L+R. What you mentioned about splitter, did you mean that you split the sub signal from the Gen8 to your two subs in front? I prefer not to do that since Dirac Live handles each sub indiviually and I think the overall result is better when treating them separately. But this could also be depending on your room and location of the subs of course.

The 2nd Gen8 here is used for Center+Sub1. I find it quite easy to hear the difference with Gen8 and the current Xtreme DAC with subwoofers only as the Gen8 is doing the job so well. So now there is actually a little gap in quality between sub1 and sub2,3... Clearly one reason why it will be interesting when the new Xtremes arrive. Just too big investment at the moment to have Gen8s for all channels! And with Atmos it would take 8 of them for a 7.4.4 setup!
As you state above, there is actually a little gap in quality between sub1 and sub2,3 in your system as sub 1 has a Gen VIII but the other subs are the CBIV Extreme DACs.

I haven't taken the 2 Extreme DAC cards out of my CBIV (to sell) yet. I could keep one of the cards and use one channel from one Extreme card for my second JL Audio f212 subwoofer. But yea, I can already hear some improvement in sub using the Gen VIII for this. My subs are placed via the Art Noxon/Acoustic Science Corp formula for rectangular room just inside my front left and right Prometheus monoblocks -
the perfect width and room length placement, and also subs are on top of 15" high ASC subtraps (12' ceiling) so they are a "whole" 6" shy of the perfect height for room modes sub placement as well (not practical to raise my front screen higher so that is the limit of my near perfect sub placement per Art Noxon/ASC rectangular room formula).

Yes, I split the signal coming out of one Gen VIII subwoofer channel into two subwoofer channels.

Keep in mind that my two JL Audio f212 subwoofers have analog equalization to tame one room peak (the new revised model just coming out will use digital equalization to tame multiple room peaks). Once I get my third Gen VIII, I will first setup Dirac with CBIV, and next I will individually set up each of the two JL Audio subwoofers using their built-in analog EQ to tame the "worst" room mode each (not that there will be much to tame if anything, so I may end up not even using the sub built-in EQ). If I want, I can always try hooking up one sub to one Extreme DAC channel and "see" (hear) how I like it. But I don't think I need to do that given my setup. The fact that my JL Audio subs are the "old"model here actually is a benefit to use with the CBIV Dirac room correction since if I end up using the JL Audio subs EQ as well, that analog EQ shouldn't have any negative impact on my hearing/perception of the subwoofer sonics and blending with mid-bass of the system as a whole.

You raise an interesting point about Dolby Atmos. I agree, to expensive to use Gen VIIIs for all the Dolby Atmos channels, too. But if I use Gen VIIIs for 5.1 channels (or even add another for 7.1 channels - not likely), and then if I use my current Extreme DACs for the Atmos channels,
my ear/brain will again be more drawn to the 5.1 channels and away from the Atmos channels even though the main and Atmos channels are level matched. Aren't I better off by simply enjoying 5.1 channels Gen VIII glory with top notch imaging/sonics. I think so.

You mean you don't remember me? Back 1999 - 2003, I started and moderated the AVS Tweaks forum and also the AVS Special Guests forum.

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http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431

Last edited by Steve Bruzonsky; 04-29-2015 at 08:38 AM.
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post #8203 of 8219 Old 04-29-2015, 09:45 AM
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...Its gonna be fun and yea once I get the last Gen VIII set up you must come over!
You bet - sounds like fun!

Dave

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....Once I get my third Gen VIII....
Wow - is this another bout of mid-life crisis , or simply the pursue of happiness?

Congrats. This has got to be the best sounding cost-no-object SSP setup ever.

Regards, Can
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post #8205 of 8219 Old 04-29-2015, 11:32 AM
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Wow - is this another bout of mid-life crisis , or simply the pursue of happiness?

Congrats. This has got to be the best sounding cost-no-object SSP setup ever.
I wish it were mid-life crisis. More like 60ish-life crisis. One daugther has taught jr high special ed for 3.5 years now. Other daughter just graduating college in two weeks. Big tuition days over - except perhaps grad school down the line? Also have my 2nd music media server on way to me from Small Green Computer, a CAPS4.0 (Computer Audiophile Forum) Pipeline, strictly for USB 2 channel music!

You mean you don't remember me? Back 1999 - 2003, I started and moderated the AVS Tweaks forum and also the AVS Special Guests forum.

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post #8206 of 8219 Old 05-03-2015, 04:45 AM
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[QUOTE=stevekale[/QUOTE]

Stevekale. Did U look for a used gen 8 ? See link:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/THETA-DIGI...item20fa6ee169
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post #8207 of 8219 Old 05-03-2015, 06:59 AM
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I think that's the same unit that was for sale via HifiBroker in the UK - they also advertised on Audiogon - it is no longer on their site. The price they are asking is grossly unrealistic. The last one that went on Audiogon was offered at $4200 or less than £2800. (Steve B did you grab that one?)

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post #8208 of 8219 Old 05-03-2015, 09:30 AM
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Smile KEF Blade 2 Demo - You should hear this speaker! (long)

Hi:
I have been listening to a number of speakers to serve as a 2 channel core in an HT system. I am pleased to report that around NYC, some brick and mortar dealers are surviving. I don't know how else I would be able to hear so many speakers. All the dealers/showrooms I visited have environments that make statements appropriate to their owner's personalities. What they have in common is that they remain flexible and change their business models to meet customer needs. Some of these stores have been around 4 decades and longer! I feel for those who live in more rural areas without the population to support a B&M shop.
Some of the speakers I've heard include the Dynaudio C2, Revel Ultra Salon II, Rockport Atria, Magico S3, Kaiser Chiara, Raidho C3.1, B&W 802D and KEF Blade 2. Quite a price spread and very different sounding speakers. They were all "good" speakers but some produced sound that was after a different buyer than myself. The Kaiser speakers were my favorites but the model I wanted is priced at $60,000 for the pair so they were out of contention.
It is really tough to compare speakers without having them all in your room where the other factors that affect the sound of the speakers can be controlled. I guess that's a basic problem with this entire process; the sound can be influenced by so many factors from electric power to amps to sources to room acoustics. However, I believe I can get a sense of a speaker if I am aware of the entire audio source chain.
As the search has progressed, I have come to feel blending a pair of JL212 subs flawlessly with any random speaker is too difficult. Even crossing at 40Hz the character of my current speakers, Aerial 9's, changes too much. The result is I am beginning to lean towards a more full range speaker that will not require a sub most of the time.
I am down to 2 speakers now; the Magico S3 or the KEF Blade 2! The Magico has a wonderful mid range and highs that reveal so much yet never get harsh. The lower end was also so well defined and clean, just not so deep. Magicos have a reputation for clinical and revealing sound and I believe their Q series leans this direction. The S series is a bit warmer and more "musical", as they say. The S5 may provide the lower end I am after at a price starting at $32,000. Maybe a lightly used Magico S5 is an option. At any rate, I loved the sound of the Magicos. Their drivers are very high tech and all made in-house. The most amazing mid range demo was on vinyl from 1963: Dean Martin singing! 'Swinging with Dean".
Then I heard the KEF Blade 2's. According to the dealer that many of us on AVS know, Craig of Theatermax, now associated with a great guy named George, he has the 1st pair of Blade 2's in the country set up for dealer demo. Craig told me that like Magico, KEF also designs and makes their own drivers in-house. The speakers have a unique appearance and are highly engineered, meaning KEF didn't just throw some off the shelf drivers into an odd shaped cabinet. The way these speakers can crank out soundstage with SPL's yet remain totally vibration free while weighing about 100lbs defies logic. While the speakers were cranking I placed my hands on them and felt nothing. I could carry on a normal conversation standing directly behind the speakers while they were really, really loud, not something I could do at that same moment in front of the speakers. I've never experienced that before. Their point source concept really seems to work!
The Uni-Q driver does an outstanding job. Mids were so clear and clean, never overshadowed by mid-bass. What was on the recordings is what we heard. Mids recorded to make voices broadly float in mid air and embrace you sounded just that way. George had some amazing KEF recommended cuts we played in addition to my music and George's superb selections. On Kind of Blue "So What", the depth of the sound stage was so dramatic you feel a clear sense of 3 dimensions. The highs were generally smooth and clean as well as clear and detailed. When we cranked the speakers way way up I felt some harshness in the high end so I back off the volume a bit. Perhaps this is the character of the speaker or maybe with just 100 hours on them, they aren't fully broken in and will smooth out with more hours.
With 4 small woofer driving the low end I didn't expect too much. I was totally wrong! The low end on this speaker, in a room that was about 14 x 30 or so, was so impressive that a woofer would not be necessary. I played several cuts with different types of bass and the Blade 2's never sounded overloaded like some of the other speakers I heard. They perform way beyond what the specs say! A cut like Pete Blasco's "Deeper was clean and shook the room like a sub would; while the cabinet stayed totally inert! Same towards the end of Bela Fleck's "Flight of the Cosmic Hippo".
At this point I am wondering about the importance of set up with this speaker. We have all read about Blade demos at the big shows that fell flat; nobody was impressed with the speakers. It seem that if the set up is done properly the speakers sound amazing; poor set up yields poor sound. I certainly hope that KEF takes an active role in making sure where ever their speakers are set up at shows that all efforts are made to set them up properly and use appropriate amplification. The demo I heard used Craig's favorite Theta Prometheus mono block amps; very impressive. I would also want to try these speakers with Hegel amps.
I recall reading that some considered the $30,000 Blade to compare to speakers 3x their cost. We all hear these types of statements and say "sure" to ourselves. What I have learned from my speaker search is the pecking order of boutique high-end speakers have an entry level in the $20 - $25,000 level. At this price you get good imaging and sound stage, great mids and highs but limited bass extension. Pay $30 - $40,000 and you get more volume, better impressive imaging, a larger sound stage and another octave of bass. $50 - $60,000 seems to be the price to "get it all", with more of everything, in one speaker!
There in lies the value proposition for the KEF Blade 2. This speaker may not have the ultimate mids and highs of the Magico; I wouldn't know without hearing them in the same system in the same room. If they aren't as good they aren't that far behind. The Blades provide an awesome mid range experience with low end extension and the larger image and soundstage of the higher priced boutique speakers. In KEF I feel I am dealing with a real company investing heavily in audio research. BTW, I feel confident in dealing with Magico too! Perhaps a company the size of KEF is able to produce product on a larger scale at a more cost effective price since they can spread the results of their investment over more speaker lines.
Whatever the reason, KEF has produced a very interesting speaker that would be worth your while to hear, even if you aren't buying now!
I drove 1 hours 40 minutes each way to make this demo. Craig and George couldn't have been more hospitable. They were informative and gracious. No pressure, just pure enjoyment! Thanks, guys, for a great experience!

BP

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post #8209 of 8219 Old 05-03-2015, 10:23 AM
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Interesting - you are moving up from Aerial 9s to possibly KEF or Magico. I moved "up" form Aerial 9s (4, plus an Aerial CC5 center) to Aerial 7ts (5); also changing out subwoofers from Aerial (3) to JL AUdio f212 (2)! More than a year ago! And powered by Prometheus monoblocks (5).

Common audiophile mantra is if you use subwoofers, crossover rather low with your main speakers. I followed that mantra for years. I had the Aerial 9s from 2007 - Jan 2014. I tried crossing them over higher than 40 to 50 Hz, but eventually I always got back to using the lower crossover, just sounded better. But with the Aerial 7ts and JL Audio subs, I have been crossing over at 80 Hz 24db slope and never "look" back - it sounds phenomenal for music and movies!

My dedicated theater/audio room is setup with my front left and right and surround left and right Aerial 7ts in a perfectly square formation equidistant from each 7t on the square (or one might say on the circle). This provides for outstanding holographic imaging. My many Micheal Green Pressure Zone Controllers are adjusted in a manner that permits the 7ts to be closer to the side walls (18' 3" room width, with outer edge of each 7t about 2' from side wall). I have always had Aerials in this room (first 10ts, then 9s, now 7ts) as the Aerials always seem to image well in my setup and are wonderful sounding dynamic speakers. I bet the KEF and Magico speakers sound awesome, though whether such speakers would image well enough as a five set combo in my "peculiar" setup is open to question.

My latest endeavor is adding a second Theta Gen VIII Series 3 DAC a week ago! For the center and subs. All I can say is - f---k---g unbelievable. You do not know what a totally seamless soundstage is up front in your home theater system until you have done this! My third Gen VIII Series 3 for my surrounds will be here Tuesday. I can't wait!!! (Yea, I got the one on Audiogon from a guy here local; and I scooped up the other one on Audiogon from Craig/VGI as well.)

Here is the BIG surprise of using a Gen VIII for subwoofer, vs using the CBIV's Extreme DAC prior: First, as this is low bass, you wouldn 't think that the Extreme vs Gen VIII DAC would make that much of a difference! At least I didn't. My purpose of a Gen VIII was primarily for the center channel! My bass, mid and low, was already fantastic using the Extreme DACs and my JL Audio f212 subwoofers! But now movies with routine soundtracks are blowing me away with deep, deep, low, low bass, both sonically and feelingwise/tactically, like I have never heard before (with one exception - at the Billy Cobham concert 11 days ago, the live bass was blowing me away and I almost had to tie myself to the leather booth seat to avoid the bass that I felt under my but and going up my spine forcing me to take off like the space shuttle). Now the bass is sort of like that at times where I normally would not expect it. Last night I watched the blu ray of "The Drop" and the bass just blew me away just like this!!!@@
(Keep in mind I am using the CB4's 80 Hz 24 dB crossover to the JL Audio f212 subwoofers.)

Again, can't wait to add my third Gen VIII for my surrounds on Tuesday when it arrives! I also have some Cardas Clear 1.5M AES/EBU digital cables coming (upgrading from my current, the now "old"model of Cardas Lightning AES/EBU).

ALso, I just got the early 80s "Spectrum" hi rez Billy Cobham album with some of the songs he played in concert the other night - the ones with bass up the you know what. Gotta play that shortly!!!

You mean you don't remember me? Back 1999 - 2003, I started and moderated the AVS Tweaks forum and also the AVS Special Guests forum.

My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #8210 of 8219 Old 05-03-2015, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Interesting - you are moving up from Aerial 9s to possibly KEF or Magico. I moved "up" form Aerial 9s (4, plus an Aerial CC5 center) to Aerial 7ts (5); also changing out subwoofers from Aerial (3) to JL AUdio f212 (2)! More than a year ago! And powered by Prometheus monoblocks (5).

Common audiophile mantra is if you use subwoofers, crossover rather low with your main speakers. I followed that mantra for years. I had the Aerial 9s from 2007 - Jan 2014. I tried crossing them over higher than 40 to 50 Hz, but eventually I always got back to using the lower crossover, just sounded better. But with the Aerial 7ts and JL Audio subs, I have been crossing over at 80 Hz 24db slope and never "look" back - it sounds phenomenal for music and movies!

My dedicated theater/audio room is setup with my front left and right and surround left and right Aerial 7ts in a perfectly square formation equidistant from each 7t on the square (or one might say on the circle). This provides for outstanding holographic imaging. My many Micheal Green Pressure Zone Controllers are adjusted in a manner that permits the 7ts to be closer to the side walls (18' 3" room width, with outer edge of each 7t about 2' from side wall). I have always had Aerials in this room (first 10ts, then 9s, now 7ts) as the Aerials always seem to image well in my setup and are wonderful sounding dynamic speakers. I bet the KEF and Magico speakers sound awesome, though whether such speakers would image well enough as a five set combo in my "peculiar" setup is open to question.

My latest endeavor is adding a second Theta Gen VIII Series 3 DAC a week ago! For the center and subs. All I can say is - f---k---g unbelievable. You do not know what a totally seamless soundstage is up front in your home theater system until you have done this! My third Gen VIII Series 3 for my surrounds will be here Tuesday. I can't wait!!! (Yea, I got the one on Audiogon from a guy here local; and I scooped up the other one on Audiogon from Craig/VGI as well.)

Here is the BIG surprise of using a Gen VIII for subwoofer, vs using the CBIV's Extreme DAC prior: First, as this is low bass, you wouldn 't think that the Extreme vs Gen VIII DAC would make that much of a difference! At least I didn't. My purpose of a Gen VIII was primarily for the center channel! My bass, mid and low, was already fantastic using the Extreme DACs and my JL Audio f212 subwoofers! But now movies with routine soundtracks are blowing me away with deep, deep, low, low bass, both sonically and feelingwise/tactically, like I have never heard before (with one exception - at the Billy Cobham concert 11 days ago, the live bass was blowing me away and I almost had to tie myself to the leather booth seat to avoid the bass that I felt under my but and going up my spine forcing me to take off like the space shuttle). Now the bass is sort of like that at times where I normally would not expect it. Last night I watched the blu ray of "The Drop" and the bass just blew me away just like this!!!@@
(Keep in mind I am using the CB4's 80 Hz 24 dB crossover to the JL Audio f212 subwoofers.)

Again, can't wait to add my third Gen VIII for my surrounds on Tuesday when it arrives! I also have some Cardas Clear 1.5M AES/EBU digital cables coming (upgrading from my current, the now "old"model of Cardas Lightning AES/EBU).

ALso, I just got the early 80s "Spectrum" hi rez Billy Cobham album with some of the songs he played in concert the other night - the ones with bass up the you know what. Gotta play that shortly!!!
Hi Steve;
Yes, I tried crossing my JL212's like you have done, at 80Hz, under the guidance of JL. My ears were happier with lower mid range sound crossing at 40Hz. I use a different setting for HT than music as I am sure you do as well. But I am 90% music.
I am going to be following in your footsteps with the Gen VIII solution. That seems to be the best 2 channel path given the CB as pre amp. I can't believe how far you've gone with them; you have my undying admiration for that!
My son bought 6t's from Craig. Having heard them and knowing they have the same mid and tweeter units as your 7t's, its easy to understand why you are so pleased with the upgrade from the 9's! And to have 5 of them; awesome! Good surround pressings must be amazing. I currently use LR/5's as surrounds for the 9's.
On your recommendation I am picking up the Billy Cobham recording.
A great aspect about this hobby is the passion we all share. We have fun in our own sandboxes tweaking, reorganizing, adjusting, playing with or replacing our toys. Nothing is forever and we keep chasing an unobtainable goal. That same passion drives us all to continue seeking a higher level; "upgradeitis," is its name!
Now Steve, I want to hear about how all those Gen VIII's, once upgraded, are sounding to you!
bp

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post #8211 of 8219 Old 05-03-2015, 01:26 PM
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Hi Steve;
Yes, I tried crossing my JL212's like you have done, at 80Hz, under the guidance of JL. My ears were happier with lower mid range sound crossing at 40Hz. I use a different setting for HT than music as I am sure you do as well. But I am 90% music.
I am going to be following in your footsteps with the Gen VIII solution. That seems to be the best 2 channel path given the CB as pre amp. I can't believe how far you've gone with them; you have my undying admiration for that!
My son bought 6t's from Craig. Having heard them and knowing they have the same mid and tweeter units as your 7t's, its easy to understand why you are so pleased with the upgrade from the 9's! And to have 5 of them; awesome! Good surround pressings must be amazing. I currently use LR/5's as surrounds for the 9's.
On your recommendation I am picking up the Billy Cobham recording.
A great aspect about this hobby is the passion we all share. We have fun in our own sandboxes tweaking, reorganizing, adjusting, playing with or replacing our toys. Nothing is forever and we keep chasing an unobtainable goal. That same passion drives us all to continue seeking a higher level; "upgradeitis," is its name!
Now Steve, I want to hear about how all those Gen VIII's, once upgraded, are sounding to you!
bp
When I had the Aerial 9s and Aerial subs, I found that I liked using a 40 to 50 Hz crossover for both movies and music. but with the Aerial 7ts
and JL Audio subs, I am using 80 Hz 24 db crossover for both movies and music! And of course its my ear brain that makes the final determination, not just objectively!

You mean you don't remember me? Back 1999 - 2003, I started and moderated the AVS Tweaks forum and also the AVS Special Guests forum.

My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #8212 of 8219 Old Yesterday, 02:26 AM
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Yea, I got the one on Audiogon from a guy here local; and I scooped up the other one on Audiogon from Craig/VGI as well.
I figured that was the case. Enjoy!

(Re crossover points, my Andra III can run very low. It is interesting, however, that when I did my Drac Live calibration it seemed to prefer a crossover in the 60-80Hz region - from viewing the DL charts - to my JL Audio sub. I did some 'forced curves' in DL and thought I was done. But I then ran REW, both sweeps and RTA. This analysis showed that a much lower crossover was better. I now have the crossover set to 40Hz and holy smoke it all sounds good. I left the DL curves the same. I still really want to be able to DL the "front L (or R) crossed-to-sub" as one channel. Whether that capability gets implemented by DL/Theta I don't know. It sounds like they may skip all that sort of thing with Unison.)

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post #8213 of 8219 Old Yesterday, 08:18 AM
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Finally got around to working with iRule. Here's screenshot of my CBIV remote page. Looking for ways to improve if anyone has suggestions.
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post #8214 of 8219 Old Yesterday, 10:09 AM
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...
I am down to 2 speakers now; the Magico S3 or the KEF Blade 2! The Magico has a wonderful mid range and highs that reveal so much yet never get harsh. The lower end was also so well defined and clean, just not so deep. Magicos have a reputation for clinical and revealing sound and I believe their Q series leans this direction. The S series is a bit warmer and more "musical", as they say. The S5 may provide the lower end I am after at a price starting at $32,000. Maybe a lightly used Magico S5 is an option. At any rate, I loved the sound of the Magicos. Their drivers are very high tech and all made in-house. The most amazing mid range demo was on vinyl from 1963: Dean Martin singing! 'Swinging with Dean"...


You sound like a seasoned and experienced audiophile :-). Fantastic report, maybe because I am in agreement with much of your sensible reasoning and observation. I know you can't compare Kef vs. Magico but were you able to play the same songs with both speakers? Playing my own collection of 2-3 songs I am familiar with is for me the most efficient way to pick apart speakers.

If you go for Magico, my vote would be for used S5 (there are a couple pairs for sale on Audiogon now for 25k) over new S3. Smaller Magico is still wonderful but I would like to have more than dual 8" drivers for the low end were I to pay this much. BTW, my own impression of Magico is here:

>>>>>>
Gravity - did you notice the "overhead flies" sequence? Wow - stunning sound engineering and a worthy test of our "ultra" systems!
1. Magico: Ultra expensive and at the very top of the list. Fast, transparent, sparkling without being edgy. Sounds airy and transparent (the most difficult of quality to achieve) like a panel speaker. The big Magico is possibly the best system I've ever auditioned in 20 years as an audiophile. Minus: ultra expensive, might sound better with tubes, reserved probably only for the nuttiest and most dedicated audiophile as it is picky what it sounds best with. Then you will be in heaven.
>>>>>>

Regards, Can
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Give vinyl and tube preamp a try - the sound from heaven! :-)

Last edited by cannga; Yesterday at 12:34 PM.
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post #8215 of 8219 Old Today, 02:17 AM
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I assume all of you have thoroughly thrashed your full range speakers and subs with Interstellar. I had to knock the volume off almost 1/3 from usual movie levels as our old Victorian sash windows starting oscillating. I will have to watch it again without my wife yelling at me to turn it down!

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I assume all of you have thoroughly thrashed your full range speakers and subs with Interstellar. I had to knock the volume off almost 1/3 from usual movie levels as our old Victorian sash windows starting oscillating. I will have to watch it again without my wife yelling at me to turn it down!
I "took off" by listening/watching "Interstellar" twice so far at my normal levels. Once I get my 3rd Gen VIII in, I will watch it again in the next few weeks!!@@@@

You mean you don't remember me? Back 1999 - 2003, I started and moderated the AVS Tweaks forum and also the AVS Special Guests forum.

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http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #8217 of 8219 Unread Today, 09:18 AM
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I see we agree!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
When I had the Aerial 9s and Aerial subs, I found that I liked using a 40 to 50 Hz crossover for both movies and music. but with the Aerial 7ts
and JL Audio subs, I am using 80 Hz 24 db crossover for both movies and music! And of course its my ear brain that makes the final determination, not just objectively!
Hi Steve;
It looks like we both ended up crossing the 9's @ 40/50hz with a 24 db slope! Old ears hear the same??😀😀
bp

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post #8218 of 8219 Unread Today, 09:37 AM
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Hi Steve;
It looks like we both ended up crossing the 9's @ 40/50hz with a 24 db slope! Old ears hear the same??😀😀
bp
Actually, I used a 6 or 12 dB slope - a higher slope didn't sound as musical to me - then. Now, 80 Hz 24 dB with the Aerial 7ts,
JL Audio f212 subwoofers, and Prometheus monoblocks sounds phenomenal!!@@@

You mean you don't remember me? Back 1999 - 2003, I started and moderated the AVS Tweaks forum and also the AVS Special Guests forum.

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post #8219 of 8219 Unread Today, 10:21 AM
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FWIW and just to add a data point: for my music system I run full range for the main speakers, and add subwoofer at or below a low point, 60 hz or so. This allows me to bypass the high pass electronics of the subwoof. Also in my system this is the only way that prevents me from hearing a (subjective) hole/discontinuity between main and subwoof.

I do this not just for the Thiel towers, but also for my beloved Magnaplanar 3.5, even though it doesn't go nearly as low as the Thiel.

Regards, Can
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