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post #91 of 7292 Old 02-12-2011, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamin View Post

With a 5.1 ex feed, I got 3 surround ouputs.

Even though you were using PLIIx processing during playback, not EX decoding?
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Originally Posted by jamin View Post

Interesting, there is no separate sub menu for Multichannel PCM, hence no PL2xMV, etc overlay choices or any other choices that appear in the other DD or DTS sub menus.

You can't apply surround processing, such as PLIIx, to multi-channel PCM?

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post #92 of 7292 Old 02-12-2011, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Even though you were using PLIIx processing during playback, not EX decoding?

Don't know if the disc IS flagged, don't know if the Theta has an EX flag indicator. Also, the albeit old manual states the +spkr category is to indicate what processing to be used when the number of input channels is less than the configuration channels. That +SPKR setting was in the PL2XMV mode, the Center Surround was OFF ( no Phantom setting available) so I might expect the PL2xMV mode to trump EX, flag or no.
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

You can't apply surround processing, such as PLIIx, to multi-channel PCM?

Again, although the PL2xMV setting was used for the +spkr config in both the DD and DTS submenu, there is no such submenu to alow for LPCM +spkr settings. There was no indication of that PL2xMV overlay when multichannel LPCM was being received, specifically 5.1 from the AIX test disc.. The Theta display is pretty good about showing when PL2xMV is invoked as that overlay processing is indicated along side the main input signal feed type, eg. DD + PL2xMV.

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post #93 of 7292 Old 02-12-2011, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamin View Post

Oh no, not Il Professore !

Just Joking, You are in good hands.
Il Maestro

Grateful you got to work on Ash's first and warn me about a few features!

Adam

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post #94 of 7292 Old 02-12-2011, 07:24 PM
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There is a lot of people who 'talk' about how great their service in this industry and how 'professional' they are and how they are the best the industry to offer - Just talk...
And then there are people like Jim - thorough professionals - love what they do and very responsible. Jim IS the best the industry has to offer - a lot of dough spent on the room and the equipment but without the best calibrator out there you got nothing. He spent 4 days calibrating (changed his plans and made it here on my request) - and is driving back again here tomorrow night to spend two more days (without me asking him) as HE is not happy with the calibration...
IMHO without this very detailed calibration yu are not using even 50% of what the equipment can do..
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post #95 of 7292 Old 02-12-2011, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamin View Post

Don't know if the disc IS flagged, don't know if the Theta has an EX flag indicator.

If you press the display button and then the A/D button once, the display will indicate if there is an EX flag and the number of channels within Dolby Digital.
You hit that A/D button a second time for the DTS info, including the ES flag, number of channels, etc.

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post #96 of 7292 Old 02-12-2011, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbrother52 View Post

If you press the display button and then the A/D button once, the display will indicate if there is an EX flag and the number of channels within Dolby Digital.
You hit that A/D button a second time for the DTS info, including the EX flag, number of channels, etc.

Why thank you. If you press A/D again does it spit out LPCM info?

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post #97 of 7292 Old 02-12-2011, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamin View Post

Why thank you. If you press A/D again does it spit out LPCM info?

I'm afraid not, the third press takes you right back to the first display screen.
You press display again at any point to escape these screens.

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post #98 of 7292 Old 02-12-2011, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by bigbrother52 View Post

I'm afraid not, the third press takes you right back to the first display screen.
You press display again at any point to escape these screens.

Thanks

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post #99 of 7292 Old 02-12-2011, 07:53 PM
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I guess I'd better clarify which button is which!

The display button I'm talking about is actually marked "Status" on the Theta remote control.

The button that's actually labeled "Display" just dims or turns the display off, sorry for any confusion.

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post #100 of 7292 Old 02-12-2011, 07:57 PM
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Jamin - I will be back with the CB3-HD tomorrow. Anything specific I could test for you before you head back out to Ash's? We had a subwoofer failure, so I am hoping I can stay an extra day to finish up, if we can get it replaced.

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post #101 of 7292 Old 02-12-2011, 08:06 PM
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Adam,
Yeah I hear ya. I hadda swap an Aerial SW12 plate amp out - EZ though. Needed to twist Aerial's arm cause they don't hot swap plate amps, worked out. Hope yours is as easy. Rest of it will take off line.

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post #102 of 7292 Old 02-12-2011, 08:59 PM
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Ash,
Your passion for and dedication to good sound is infectious and your hospitality without peer. Thank you as always for the opportunity and the kind words.

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post #103 of 7292 Old 02-12-2011, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamin View Post

the Center Surround was OFF ( no Phantom setting available) so I might expect the PL2xMV mode to trump EX, flag or no.

I'm sorry but I missed this line in here before, " ( no Phantom setting available)", I might be misunderstanding but there is a phantom setting for the center surround. You can use this even if you're only 5.1

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post #104 of 7292 Old 02-12-2011, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbrother52 View Post

I'm sorry but I missed this line in here before, " ( no Phantom setting available)", I might be misunderstanding but there is a phantom setting for the center surround. You can use this even if you're only 5.1

Ok dokey -- i'll look again. Not something I would invoke in this instance, just thought it was MIA.

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post #105 of 7292 Old 02-12-2011, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamin View Post

Ok dokey -- i'll look again. Not something I would invoke in this instance, just thought it was MIA.

You'll find "Sur Cen" at the #5 selection, to the left of the "Side off/on" button which is #6 selection in "Config" menu.
So, Set-Up -> INP -> CONFIG -> CEN SUR
You are able to configure a phantom option on a per input basis, pretty much the same as the other speakers.

This is where you can select either "off" or "phantom mode" and select crossover types, crossover slopes and freqs. for the Center Surround speaker, even if it is just a phantom.
You can also adjust the degree to which the phantom exists, which Theta designates as PHLV or phantom level.
This is done in set steps, they are 0,1,2 and 3.

If the Casablanca actually has a DAC configured for a Center Surround speaker, this is also where you could turn it on if you wanted to set-up a particular input with a center surround, with or instead of side surrounds, but then of course you'd need to go to the 'level" menu under INPUT to adjust volume instead of using PHLV in CONFIG.

Jim:
I edited in alot of this info after the original post, not for your benifit as you yourself would have found all of this the second you were in the right place, simply by knowing exactly where to find the control.
It is for everyone else that may have had questions about what control there is for the Center Surround Channel or Phantom Center Surround Channel, since it is quite different from the control that's available for Side Surrounds, as you yourself noticed and posted earlier.

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post #106 of 7292 Old 02-13-2011, 01:03 AM
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BigBrother52,

Thanks of course but I did know where the config control was. Since I was looking to make sure it was OFF I did not go terribly far in that config, but for some reason thought that the phantom setting was early on in the options. Don't know if it was a phantom memory from the manual or I just blew past it way too fast during setups. The setting is moot for me but I stand wholly corrected. Believe it or not I actually try to post facts so I am doubly chagrined

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post #107 of 7292 Old 02-13-2011, 01:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamin View Post

Ok dokey -- i'll look again. Not something I would invoke in this instance, just thought it was MIA.

Perhaps not in this instance and especially not for a system like Ash has and maybe I'm over-thinking this situation with less control for Multi-channel LPCM.
Since I've only had any real use for the new audio codecs for about 36 days, I've only run through 30 movies and I myself have not yet encountered a movie that is only in LPCM that is not already recorded in 7.1 but I guess a few 5.1 LPCM movies must be out there.

Since AFAIK from what you have already posted, you cannot expand these particular movies, would it be a benifit to Ash if you set-up an extra input just for LPCM movies that are recorded in 5.1?

On this input you could have a Phantom Center Surround speaker, so Ash would not need to go into menus to turn this feature on "IF" he ran across a 5.1 LPCM movie.

Perhaps what you meant was only that you could not expand a 7.1 movie any further and this 5.1 recording problem is an issue I have just created where there is nothing to worry about since they may not exist.

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post #108 of 7292 Old 02-13-2011, 02:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbrother52 View Post

I've only run through 30 movies and I myself have not yet encountered a movie that is only in LPCM that is not already recorded in 7.1 but I guess a few 5.1 LPCM movies must be out there.

Besides the odd PCM movie, there are music BDs, most DVD-As, and if one plays a 5.1 SACD on, say, an Oppo into the CB3HD, it will come out as PCM. This may not be an issue for Ash, being mainly a movie fan, but other owners.

Roger

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post #109 of 7292 Old 02-13-2011, 04:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamin View Post

Don't know if the disc IS flagged

I just checked and it doesn't appear to be flagged (I also tried Disney's 'Atlantis', which showed up as flagged). In any case, the flag shouldn't override the user selecting PLIIx, so you should have gotten 4 surround signals instead of 3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamin View Post

Again, although the PL2xMV setting was used for the +spkr config in both the DD and DTS submenu, there is no such submenu to alow for LPCM +spkr settings.

OK, that sounds like something in the firmware rather than a hardware limitation. All the codecs have to be converted back to PCM before anything (surround processing, bass management, time alignment, D/A conversion) can be done. If you can apply PLIIx to coded bitstreams, then it is already working with PCM signals, though not PCM sources/inputs. Someone may have forgotten to check off PCM on the PLIIx source table in the code. Easily fixable, if that's the case. Hope you're reporting your findings to Theta.

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post #110 of 7292 Old 02-13-2011, 06:27 AM
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Roger,
Thanks for participating in this thread - your expert opinion is valued in threads like this as we take the journey of understanding these codecs and their impact on our dear hobby.
SUBJECTIVE - This one blew me off completely - Around the last scene in Kill Bill 1 when Uma Thurman kills Lucy Liu there is a Japanese song ... when it started playing I said crap... there were pops. On close listening it turns out this song is played using a vinyl record and I could hear the hiss and scratch of the record.
Marvelous - considering my Japanese friends (older guys visiting from Tokyo once watched Kill Bill with me) told me that this is a very old song and Quentin Tarantino is doing his thing playing it correctly.The move from Lossy Audio to HD Audio reminds me of the move from SD video to HD - it is quite a jump. Now we can really enjoy the movies as the director intended not only in video but also audio.
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post #111 of 7292 Old 02-13-2011, 06:35 AM
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I do want to report a issue now I am having with DIRECTV HR21 Pro unit I have - when listening to DVR recordings I can hear pops at times during the presentation (these pops are similar to the pops heard when you paused media in the old CB3) - you cannot hear the pops when watching live DIRECTV.
Jim tells me that this is a problem with DirecTV boxes widely reported in different forums.
With a way better Theta - these issues where the problem is because of the source box which were previously not audible will become a problem.
I plan to install the DIRECTV 24 DVR next month (another install recabling the rack making it neat swapping the oppo 93 to 95 etc and will be able to observe If I can get rid of the problem).
Ash
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post #112 of 7292 Old 02-13-2011, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbrother52 View Post
Since I've only had any real use for the new audio codecs for about 36 days, I've only run through 30 movies and I myself have not yet encountered a movie that is only in LPCM that is not already recorded in 7.1 but I guess a few 5.1 LPCM movies must be out there.

S
3:10 to Yuma is 7.1 LPCM. I bought it just because.

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post #113 of 7292 Old 02-13-2011, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGA View Post
I recently asked Oppo about this re their analog outs:


Can a 2.1 or 5.1 DVD/BD be expanded to 7.1 through the Oppo analog outs?

This was their reply:Unfortunately no. The player will not upmatrix the number of speakers used. It will only playback the files in the same or less number of channels.



I'd guess they would not be "upmatixing" their digital outs either.
I could not find any that did so via analog out which is why I abandoned using 2 Six Shooters for 7.1. You really need a pre-pro for post processsing to expand to 7.1. I used a Parasound EX expander to derive a rear center when I was using the 2 Six shooter via analog outs of a Toshiba HD-DVD player. The rear center that Theta uses dates from the EX era and is likely derived using the same sort of method.

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post #114 of 7292 Old 02-13-2011, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Sharma View Post
I do want to report a issue now I am having with DIRECTV HR21 Pro unit I have - when listening to DVR recordings I can hear pops at times during the presentation (these pops are similar to the pops heard when you paused media in the old CB3) - you cannot hear the pops when watching live DIRECTV.
Jim tells me that this is a problem with DirecTV boxes widely reported in different forums.
With a way better Theta - these issues where the problem is because of the source box which were previously not audible will become a problem.
I plan to install the DIRECTV 24 DVR next month (another install recabling the rack making it neat swapping the oppo 93 to 95 etc and will be able to observe If I can get rid of the problem).
Ash
I have both a DirecTV HR23 and HR24 DVRs. So hopefully I will get my CB3 HD back shortly and I will let you know about this!

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post #115 of 7292 Old 02-13-2011, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Sharma View Post

I do want to report a issue now I am having with DIRECTV HR21 Pro unit I have - when listening to DVR recordings I can hear pops at times during the presentation (these pops are similar to the pops heard when you paused media in the old CB3) - you cannot hear the pops when watching live DIRECTV.
Jim tells me that this is a problem with DirecTV boxes widely reported in different forums.

Which HR21 do you have? -100, -200, -700? I'm using the -200 and do not experience any pops. Yes, there are occasional dropouts, but no clicks/pops.

If you replay the section where the pop occurred, is it there every time, or random?

If you switch the HR21 to PCM instead of DD output, do you hear pops, dropouts, neither?

If you play a DVD with DD, and pull the S/PDIF input out of the CB3, do you hear a pop?

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post #116 of 7292 Old 02-13-2011, 02:32 PM
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I would just like to thank Adam Pelz for the wonderfully job he has done, 2 days of calibration. Unfortunately one sub failed(Micheal Kelly respond to an email sent to him Saturday night, hows that for service?)Adam offered to extend his trip and come back tomorrow but I couldn't locate a replacement sub in time. I made arrangements with Michael to swap out the amp section. Adam great job with just one sub in the setup.

We did discover that the CB3HD did not playback LPCM Discrete 7.1, both from the AIX test disc played through my Pioneer BDP-09FD, and also via my Mozaex HTPC.
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post #117 of 7292 Old 02-13-2011, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post


We did discover that the CB3HD did not playback LPCM Discrete 7.1, both from the AIX test disc played through my Pioneer BDP-09FD, and also via my Mozaex HTPC.

What does it do when it gets such a signal?

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post #118 of 7292 Old 02-13-2011, 03:06 PM
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Lon,
Great to know that you are getting close to calibration (pending sub addition)... my Aerial sub was damaged too but Jim told me before he got here that we may need to replace the Amp. Michael Kelly overnite'd the amp for a swap at my request (great service - followed up to see if It was coming) and we replaced it.
You need to get a Oppo 93 - it will play all the formats - I will be replacing mine with the 95 early March when they start shipping even though as pointed out by Sanjay in a earlier post that 93 and 95 are same if you are not interested in two channel audio. The 95 has rack ears which is one of the reasons I will get it and other is I can use RCA analog into the CB3 HD In case I want to listen to stereo recording even though there is a very less chance of this happening. My main transport for music is the Transporter which I use to play flac of my home NAS, a 12 TB Netgear Readynas Pro.The slimserver software has Crestron module and there is a software you can get called Ipeng for a Iphone or Ipad with which you can browse all your music including cover art and recent music added etc and play on the transporter and other devices around the house such as Sonos system. The transporter has a AES EBU output which I use on the CB3 HD to play the Flac.
Adam is a highly recommended calibrator I am sure he did a awesome job in your room.
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post #119 of 7292 Old 02-13-2011, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

What does it do when it gets such a signal?

The side and surrounds act as one with the test tones
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post #120 of 7292 Old 02-13-2011, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Which HR21 do you have? -100, -200, -700? I'm using the -200 and do not experience any pops. Yes, there are occasional dropouts, but no clicks/pops.

If you replay the section where the pop occurred, is it there every time, or random?

If you switch the HR21 to PCM instead of DD output, do you hear pops, dropouts, neither?

If you play a DVD with DD, and pull the S/PDIF input out of the CB3, do you hear a pop?

Roger,
I just checked it is a HR21 - 200 and it is set to PCM.
Also, I watched a newly recorded program (30 minutes) and did not hear any pops this time.
Sorry - all the S/PDIF Cables are gone I am all HDMI now...
Ash
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