Is 3-D dying a quick death at the box office ? - Page 7 - AVS Forum

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Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+)

CINERAMAX's Avatar CINERAMAX
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post #181 of 290
11-12-2011 | Posts: 12,803
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aye to that sentiment as well too.
Pete's Avatar Pete
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post #182 of 290
11-13-2011 | Posts: 2,662
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People take sides on 3D as if the experience were somehow standardized and you either like it or you don't...not unlike taking sides on a political candidate or some commodity like milk or coffee or tea. The problem is that more often than not, the public gets served sub-standard 3D, and the recipients then form a negative or indifferent judgement about it. Most commercial theaters are no different than hash-houses or fast-food eateries. 3D Flat panel TV's are a complete waste of time. Bang-for-the-buck 3D projectors are not bright enough and don't have fast enough frame rates. So the only way to get exposed to really good 3D is to happen upon one of the few commercial theaters that have made a serious financial commitment to the art form and to maintaining and calibrating their equipment. Alternatively, you can buy your own very expensive projector/lens/screen and create a really good 3D experience at home.
taffman's Avatar taffman
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post #183 of 290
11-13-2011 | Posts: 651
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3D has come and gone at least 3 times in the last 50 years. The present 3D cycle is no exception, now into its dying phase. People are sick and tired of the endless mediocre 3D kiddie films. Quick- name one great 3D drama film. You can't. Nothing has changed in the cinema, people will flock to a movie that has a great story, with great acting, great directing, and great photography. 3D adds nothing, except distraction, and gimmicks like 2.75D are inevitably short lived.
Casablanca in 2.75D? Spare me!
Pete's Avatar Pete
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post #184 of 290
11-14-2011 | Posts: 2,662
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I happen to enjoy documentaries and there are a number of excellent titles to be had in 3D. While serious dramas may not lend themselves to 3D, action-thrillers certainly do. And one man's "kiddie film" could to another be an animation tour de force. Pixar has certainly earned a few plaudits in this category. I think that what those who appreciate 3D are saying is that when good 3D source material is reproduced properly, it is not a distraction, but rather a considerable enhancement to the suspension of disbelief. What differentiates the current incarnation of 3D from those that have come and gone is that this time around we are not limited to experiencing it with just a few gimmicky titles with cheap throw-away stereoscopic glasses on dimly projected commercial screens. If this incarnation of 3D does expire, some of the blame might well rest on the shoulders of the hardware manufactures who could not or would not deliver 3D projectors with adequate native brightness and fast 3D frame rates at a price the average citizen can afford.
Dan Hitchman's Avatar Dan Hitchman
05:45 PM Liked: 540
post #185 of 290
11-14-2011 | Posts: 9,251
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Or the fact that too many live action titles are still 2D conversions...
CINERAMAX's Avatar CINERAMAX
04:17 AM Liked: 85
post #186 of 290
11-19-2011 | Posts: 12,803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taffman View Post

3D has come and gone at least 3 times in the last 50 years. The present 3D cycle is no exception, now into its dying phase. People are sick and tired of the endless mediocre 3D kiddie films. Quick- name one great 3D drama film. You can't. Nothing has changed in the cinema, people will flock to a movie that has a great story, with great acting, great directing, and great photography. 3D adds nothing, except distraction, and gimmicks like 2.75D are inevitably short lived.
Casablanca in 2.75D? Spare me!

EXPLETIVE. Have you seen it? No then shut up.
CINERAMAX's Avatar CINERAMAX
04:25 AM Liked: 85
post #187 of 290
11-19-2011 | Posts: 12,803
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Last night I saw an Imported Blu-ray of the Man of the West with Gary cooper, in color , in cinema-scope and converted on the fly with the Teranex/Doremi on the 17 foot wide Barco 4k sitting at .85sw away. One of the top 50 most rewarding movie experiences of my life. The 3d topography of the rocky west was uncanny. YOU CANNOT GET THAT expansive frontal STAGE so clearly deployed in a 180 degree arc with 2d , much less the emotional roller coaster ride your brain gets from the liberation of being focused in a single focal plane. Your vision has trained you well at what good 3d is, it is not easy to create a good 3D system or 2.75D for that matter, but when it is good, it is incredible.

And for the record to me Casablanca gets boring after a first watch. What is more... Bogart is boring after the first watch.
Art Sonneborn's Avatar Art Sonneborn
07:17 AM Liked: 49
post #188 of 290
11-19-2011 | Posts: 22,308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

.

And for the record to me Casablanca gets boring after a first watch. What is more... Bogart is boring after the first watch.

Try The Treasure of the Sierra Madre,The Big Sleep,A Lonely Place, The Cane Mutiny etc.

Art
Andy Lammer's Avatar Andy Lammer
01:38 PM Liked: 10
post #189 of 290
11-19-2011 | Posts: 2,509
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Imagine if Peter ran "Treasure of the Sierra Madre" through the Teranex.
He could re-dub the famous line as:

" 3D-Glasses ? We ain't got no 3D-Glasses ... I DON'T HAVE TO SHOW YOU ANY STINKING GLASSES !!! "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqomZQMZQCQ

BTW Peter, I applaud you for always pushing the envelope.

- Andy
CINERAMAX's Avatar CINERAMAX
02:46 PM Liked: 85
post #190 of 290
11-19-2011 | Posts: 12,803
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Ok Art, the bookends are not bad, I own them, the middle ones will have to check out. Thanks.

Andy I too applaud myself sometimes, but it is 4 steps forward and 2 back every step of the way so it is a pretty exhausting journey. I am not too happy with the dolby 3d and the teranex, the reald is wayyy better, more like 5 times better.
taffman's Avatar taffman
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post #191 of 290
11-20-2011 | Posts: 651
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

And for the record to me Casablanca gets boring after a first watch. What is more... Bogart is boring after the first watch.

Well to each his own, but I find Casablance to be a film that I can constantly revisit and enjoy every time. One thing it certainly does not need is computers messing around with its stunning black and white cinematography to produce artificial depth.
Art Sonneborn's Avatar Art Sonneborn
09:49 AM Liked: 49
post #192 of 290
11-20-2011 | Posts: 22,308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taffman View Post

Well to each his own, One thing it certainly does not need is computers messing around with its stunning black and white cinematography to produce artificial depth.



+1

Art
Raul GS's Avatar Raul GS
12:24 PM Liked: 24
post #193 of 290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taffman View Post


Well to each his own, but I find Casablance to be a film that I can constantly revisit and enjoy every time. One thing it certainly does not need is computers messing around with its stunning black and white cinematography to produce artificial depth.

Not that I necessarily disagree. but you know this how? If one has never seen a properly implemented system as described by Peter, then it is pretty prestigious to assume one knows better.
CINERAMAX's Avatar CINERAMAX
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post #194 of 290
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Harold Lloyd's antics are coming out in 3d and colorized, perhaps I 'll give it a view...

And it has more to do with the capture of dpeth of field with a single lens camera than with computers.
J.Mike Ferrara's Avatar J.Mike Ferrara
02:29 PM Liked: 22
post #195 of 290
11-21-2011 | Posts: 3,325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raul GS View Post

Not that I necessarily disagree. but you know this how? If one has never seen a properly implemented system as described by Peter, then it is pretty prestigious to assume one knows better.

Well, if only a handful of folks will ever get to see this mythological "properly implemented system" what's your point?
Pete's Avatar Pete
02:43 PM Liked: 29
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11-21-2011 | Posts: 2,662
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There are plenty of "properly implemented" systems out there. You just need to find out where they are and then experience them....whether it be at a Cineplex that actually gives a damn, an IMAX theater, or a high performance HT reseller with a properly calibrated showroom.
SubaruB4's Avatar SubaruB4
02:56 PM Liked: 30
post #197 of 290
11-21-2011 | Posts: 1,002
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thread is too long for me to read the 10 + pages but I've heard people say like every tv in the past like 30 years can do 3D and whatever..

Which makes me wonder how come they don't just make every tv 3D ready and you just buy the kit if you want it?
Art Sonneborn's Avatar Art Sonneborn
07:49 AM Liked: 49
post #198 of 290
11-23-2011 | Posts: 22,308
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The original point of this thread was 3D box office tanking.... Peters 3D system or anyones TV is really for another thread. Just my take.

Art
mdada's Avatar mdada
10:54 PM Liked: 10
post #199 of 290
12-05-2011 | Posts: 2
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3D in movies will be hit and miss and will be useful for some movies like Matrix, Troy etc. Even some parts of a movie could be 3D and others may be flat. 3D in games will take off and specially at handheld devices. I don't think it needs more money to make 3D, the issue is when you look hard some 3D is just plain headache. I am pro 3D and not long ago predicted it to be the future but after having bought 3D TV and Camcorder I am not sure anymore.
taffman's Avatar taffman
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12-07-2011 | Posts: 651
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I wish 3D would just go away. It has given manufacturers an excuse to raise the prices of their projectors to include a feature that most people find an annoying distraction. The present technology, with dim pictures and ghosting, is interim at best , and practical glasses-free 3D is nowhere in sight. Plus you have people messing around with 2D to 3D (or 2.75D) conversions of the classic movies, which is like spraying graffiti on the Mona Lisa.
So 3D, please go away.
ca1ore's Avatar ca1ore
09:23 AM Liked: 10
post #201 of 290
12-07-2011 | Posts: 1,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taffman View Post

I wish 3D would just go away. It has given manufacturers an excuse to raise the prices of their projectors to include a feature that most people find an annoying distraction.

While I would not shed a single tear if 3D went away tomorrow, have manufacturers really raised projector pricing? My sense is that projectors have never offered greater value - and you can get perfomance today for far less than in prior years. OK, there are a lot of factors involved, but I think it is not accurate to suggest that 3D has had the effect you state. Seems to me the 3D price premium is in the software, not the hardware.
Deja Vu's Avatar Deja Vu
05:46 PM Liked: 189
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12-07-2011 | Posts: 4,560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taffman View Post

I wish digital projectors would just go away. It has given resellers an excuse to raise the prices of used CRT projectors since most people find digital projectors with their dithering, poor motion, RBE etc. an annoying distraction. The present technology, with poor black levels and poorer colour is interim at best , and anything approaching film-like is nowhere in sight. Plus using a digital is worse than people messing around with converting B&W to colour of the classic movies, which is like spraying graffiti on the Mona Lisa.
So digital, please go away.

I took the liberty of making a few changes to your anti-3D rant.

I can remember when CRT owners (I owned a G90) used to say pretty much the same thing about digital projectors! How did that work out!
Art Sonneborn's Avatar Art Sonneborn
07:02 AM Liked: 49
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12-08-2011 | Posts: 22,308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

I took the liberty of making a few changes to your anti-3D rant.

I can remember when CRT owners (I owned a G90) used to say pretty much the same thing about digital projectors! How did that work out!

But digital projectors got a lot better (a lot better!). Not to mention that there is a lot more to this than just the quality of the technology in the presentation (at least in the commercial theater which is what the thread is about). A turd is still a turd in 3D.

Art
CINERAMAX's Avatar CINERAMAX
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Not so. A turd in 2d only activates certain areas of the brain with the resulting limited comprehension and enlightenment. On the other hand a turd in 3d excites the senses in a way that is far more gratifying and edifying, in the future television and movie watching will be splintered in 2 groups those that embrace 3d for it's capacity as a mega-pipeline for literacy, and there will be enlightenment challenged individuals with their underutilized brains.

Like d-box 3D or good 2.75D can make a bad movie, highly entertaining.
taffman's Avatar taffman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Like d-box 3D or good 2.75D can make a bad movie, highly entertaining.

Garbage is garbage no matter how you dress it up. 2.75D is exactly the same type of thought process as colorization, and we all know how well that worked out.
Art Sonneborn's Avatar Art Sonneborn
08:31 AM Liked: 49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Not so. A turd in 2d only activates certain areas of the brain with the resulting limited comprehension and enlightenment. On the other hand a turd in 3d excites the senses in a way that is far more gratifying and edifying, in the future television and movie watching will be splintered in 2 groups those that embrace 3d for it's capacity as a mega-pipeline for literacy, and there will be enlightenment challenged individuals with their underutilized brains.

Like d-box 3D or good 2.75D can make a bad movie, highly entertaining.

Yea, I guess you're right it is a 3D turd that now appears to jump out over your shoulder.

Art
CINERAMAX's Avatar CINERAMAX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taffman View Post

Garbage is garbage no matter how you dress it up. 2.75D is exactly the same type of thought process as colorization, and we all know how well that worked out.

How it worked out? It's a wonderful life is beautiful. Plus I look forward to the antics of Harold Lloyd (safety first) Colorized and Dimensionalised.

Unlike you that are equipped with a Large mouth and a sphyncter. I AM AMONG a HANDFUL of the MOST QUALIFIED PERSONS ON THE PLANET TO SAY WHAT WORKS ( I even schooled Cameron on the absent of occlusion errors teranex and on the subject of converting catalog titles from the 50, 60, 70') and WHAT DOES NOT, remember that I coined the term home theater first back in 1979 (in the context of using video and surround sound to show movies at home), and was the first person to pair Faroudja deinterlacer/scalers to advanced data grade projectors. I have exhausted all technical possibilities in creating the perfect 3D display and on the fly conversion systems, I have spent every hour during the last 4 years making disparate equipment work together to create this ultimate 4D experience it has been a 5 steps forward 3 back process that has left me physically affected. Who the heck are you to insult something you know nothing about?

Who benefits humanity the most? you with your typed IUD's to progress, or me with a completely socially responsible agenda that uses the ultra-rich to pay for development by which later millions benefit and thousands make a living?

I know-I know, the thread is about theaters, commercial venues. Well there is no reason NOT to apply the same care wolfgang, others and I are giving to this wonderful new literacy medium,quite frankly to have to hear c_Qs_c_qr statements like yours because you are too stingy to do your due diligence or because your wife punched one of your eyes out is not fair to mankind, go find a local library , read books, preferably the old parchment scrolls aging curmudgeon, start a raucous there if you want to.
CINERAMAX's Avatar CINERAMAX
09:22 AM Liked: 85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

Yea, I guess you're right it is a 3D turd that now appears to jump out over your shoulder.

Art

yes, I set up that one for you. Cheers!
R Harkness's Avatar R Harkness
09:54 AM Liked: 388
post #209 of 290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

remember that I coined the term home theater first back in 1979 (in the context of using video and surround sound to show movies at home),

I'm...er...a bit dubious of this claim.
J.Mike Ferrara's Avatar J.Mike Ferrara
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post #210 of 290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Unlike you that are equipped with a Large mouth and a sphyncter. I AM AMONG a HANDFUL of the MOST QUALIFIED PERSONS ON THE PLANET TO SAY WHAT WORKS.

The entire universe is not large enough to contain your ego, much less this board.

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