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post #1 of 287 Old 09-08-2011, 06:29 AM - Thread Starter
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http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/news/201...nthusiasts.php

Looks nice and expected to come in at the $30K range...

Title should read 4K, not $K, freudian slip
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post #2 of 287 Old 09-08-2011, 07:59 AM
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definitely a game changer there! high end will get hit from this.

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post #3 of 287 Old 09-08-2011, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by baddgsx View Post
definitely a game changer there! high end will get hit from this.
How about 4000 lumens??!!

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #4 of 287 Old 09-08-2011, 09:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Jeff:

They are saying a Qualia type replacement....
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post #5 of 287 Old 09-08-2011, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post


Title should read 4K, not $K, freudian slip

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post #6 of 287 Old 09-08-2011, 09:49 AM
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I do not understand why anyone would want a 4k projector when the highest format available now and in the foreseeable future is 2k. You just add upscaling distortions and will soften the image. Some people complain that DILA/LCOS projectors already look a bit soft. Going to 4k will only increase this effect.

I would rather have a 4,000 lumen 2k projector than a 2,000 lumen 4k projector.
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post #7 of 287 Old 09-08-2011, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inky blacks View Post

I do not understand why anyone would want a 4k projector when the highest format available now and in the foreseeable future is 2k. You just add upscaling distortions and will soften the image. Some people complain that DILA/LCOS projectors already look a bit soft. Going to 4k will only increase this effect.

I would rather have a 4,000 lumen 2k projector than a 2,000 lumen 4k projector.

if that 2000 ANSI lumens holds close after calibation and aging, that gives very good performance for actual "in the home" theaters.

And $25,000 for say a 10 ft wide screen, to be at the bleeding edge and be able to display 4k material before others is important.

Imagine 18 months from now they add 4k capture to the hi-end sony DSLR's...
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post #8 of 287 Old 09-08-2011, 10:03 AM
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I think 4K would be a benefit on my 14' wide screen as 480I upconverted to 1080p was a real benefit when Runco released the VP-5000 scaler.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #9 of 287 Old 09-08-2011, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inky blacks View Post

I do not understand why anyone would want a 4k projector when the highest format available now and in the foreseeable future is 2k. You just add upscaling distortions and will soften the image. Some people complain that DILA/LCOS projectors already look a bit soft. Going to 4k will only increase this effect.

I would rather have a 4,000 lumen 2k projector than a 2,000 lumen 4k projector.

Sony will be introducing 4K material to consumers
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post #10 of 287 Old 09-08-2011, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I think 4K would be a benefit on my 14' wide screen as 480I upconverted to 1080p was a real benefit when Runco released the VP-5000 scaler.

Same here, I sit about 16-17 Feet from 14' wide screen...
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post #11 of 287 Old 09-08-2011, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by jm_etue View Post

if that 2000 ANSI lumens holds close after calibation and aging, that gives very good performance for actual "in the home" theaters.

Not with a UHP lamp. Expect the usual roll off after calibration and after a few hundred hours on the lamp. It has been posted in the other forum it is not expected to light up a big screen but should do well on a mid size screen and smaller.
We have already placed an order so anyone in the FL area who would like to demo the projector after they ship let me know. I will also have the Sony 4k d cinema for a fun comparison as well.
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post #12 of 287 Old 09-08-2011, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inky blacks View Post

I do not understand why anyone would want a 4k projector when the highest format available now and in the foreseeable future is 2k. You just add upscaling distortions and will soften the image. Some people complain that DILA/LCOS projectors already look a bit soft. Going to 4k will only increase this effect.

I would rather have a 4,000 lumen 2k projector than a 2,000 lumen 4k projector.

If RED would just finally put out their RedRay player, we'd be able to carry 4K content around on a DVD player that costs less than $1000 and burns to traditional DVD media. I read wavelet compression is pretty darn amazing.

Alot of indi and pro film makers are using RED cam 4k already.

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post #13 of 287 Old 09-08-2011, 11:39 AM
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nobody is saying jump on this when it comes out. Just like the first 1080p sxrd wowed people years ago, i think this projector will do same. 4k will add alot more depth to the overall picture quality as bluray does to dvd.

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post #14 of 287 Old 09-08-2011, 12:27 PM
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post #15 of 287 Old 09-08-2011, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

Sony will be introducing 4K material to consumers

Any idea how soon???
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post #16 of 287 Old 09-08-2011, 03:36 PM
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It looked very nice. They played the trailer from the upcoming Spiderman, which is 4k. They also showed some 4k photos/slides. Was a great picture overall.
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post #17 of 287 Old 09-08-2011, 05:14 PM
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Might go for the Sharp 8K, instead, if I had that kind of money. It is only 85", though. I have yet to see it with high resolution imagery, instead of a low resolution testscreens.
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post #18 of 287 Old 09-08-2011, 05:15 PM
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Sony introduces world’s first 4K projector for high-end home theatre installations
Sep 8, 2011
New front projector delivers a variety of entertainment at more than four times the resolution of HDTV

BASINGSTOKE, UK, September 8, 2011: Sony Europe today introduced its VPL-VW1000ES 4K home theatre projector, once again demonstrating its leadership by delivering a first of its kind high resolution home entertainment experience. The model is the world’s first home theatre front projector that has been specifically designed to meet the needs of custom installers, and is capable of displaying stunning 4K images that provide entertainment enthusiasts with a more immersive, engaging visual experience with over four times the resolution of HDTV.

With 2,000 ANSI-lumens of brightness, the VPL-VW1000ES delivers nearly twice the output of previous Sony home theatre projectors. The VW1000ES also employs an entirely new SXRD 4K panel, which produces outstanding device contrast. When combined with Sony's Iris3 technology, the projector can achieve an incredible 1,000,000:1 dynamic contrast.

Since 2003, Sony has been developing and improving its SXRD panels, creating different sizes and resolutions, HD and 4K. VPL-VW1000ES, the 0,74" 4K SXRD panel has been optimised for minimum light reflection to fit the 4K resolution. The size of each pixel has been reduced from 7μm to 4μm and the space between each pixel is also reduced, which an even distribution and accurate light reflection.



Newly developed 0.74" 4K SXRD Panel
In addition to supporting 4K native resolution, the VW1000ES projector also features an exclusive Super Resolution 4K upscaler “Reality Creation” that dramatically enhances 1080P content, allowing the viewers to get the most from their existing Blu-ray Disc™ libraries at home. For greater versatility, it can also display Full HD 3D and 4K upscaling 3D movies, as well as 2D and 3D anamorphic film, plus it has built-in transmitter. And it has picture position memory which memorizes the position of the zoom lens.

The performance and function of this 4K upscaler "Reality Creation" can be vastly improved by evolving the pattern classification, based on the statistical learning, using a wide variety of images in the Sony original super resolution algorithm, which has been developed and evolved over the decades. Furthermore, the super resolution 4K upscaler can deliver high definition, seamless and smooth 4K pictures by the dynamic control, based on the measurement and analysis of the input picture quality (noise, spectrum) and the processing of the super resolution, including the characteristics of the display device (4K projector).



4K Upscaler "Reality Creation"
The VW1000ES offers a variety of installation options, including dual triggers, a 2.1 motorized zoom, expanded throw distances, an RS232 interface, control over IP, and compatibility with virtually every home automation integrator.

"The VPL-VW1000ES is just the latest in a complete series of Sony home projectors. Last year at IFA, Sony released its first 3D home projector, the VPL-VW90ES, and in June of this year, the VPL-HW30ES projector joined the line as a high-performance, entry-level 3D model. Most recently, the VPL-VW95ES was announced at IFA as a mid-level 3D home projector option. And today with its truly advanced resolution, the new VPL-VW1000ES 4K home theatre projector delivers on the promise of the future of home entertainment – today.” said Tak Nakane, product manager from Sony Europe


AvailabilitySony’s new VPL-VW1000ES 4K home theatre front projector will begin shipping this winter through Sony’s home cinema accredited dealers.
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post #19 of 287 Old 09-08-2011, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

Sony will be introducing 4K material to consumers

Source of that info?

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post #20 of 287 Old 09-08-2011, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by inky blacks View Post

I do not understand why anyone would want a 4k projector when the highest format available now and in the foreseeable future is 2k. You just add upscaling distortions and will soften the image. Some people complain that DILA/LCOS projectors already look a bit soft. Going to 4k will only increase this effect.

I would rather have a 4,000 lumen 2k projector than a 2,000 lumen 4k projector.

Agreed !

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post #21 of 287 Old 09-08-2011, 06:28 PM - Thread Starter
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[quote=Glimmie;20924054]Source of that info?[/QUOTE

http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-th...0es-projector/

Sony reps claim the company is in talks with the Blu-ray Disc Association to iron out a standard compression scheme for squeezing 4K movies onto discs, and has already promised a 4K release of the next Spider-Man movie, but the July 2012 release date for that flick should be telling: Sony won’t yet talk timelimes on when 4K movies could hit shelves.
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post #22 of 287 Old 09-08-2011, 07:18 PM
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agreed !

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+1
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post #23 of 287 Old 09-08-2011, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inky blacks View Post

You just add upscaling distortions and will soften the image. Some people complain that DILA/LCOS projectors already look a bit soft. Going to 4k will only increase this effect.

Looks like you & Art are both correct. Verifired by another CEDIA attendee as well as Digitrends.

Apparently the VPL-VW1000 doesn't do to well with non 4k material-

Impressions from Digitrends-

Quote:


First, we saw a side-by-side comparison of digital still images projected through both the VW1000ES and a “competitor’s projector.” The idea here was to show the lack of screen door effect and the “obvious difference in uniformity of texture.” The problem is, the differences were not all that obvious. With serious scrutiny, the differentiation was visible, but we couldn’t help but think about how difficult it might have been to see them without extended viewing of still images and the presenter’s fancy “pointing finger” laser pen.

Next, the VW1000ES was put to work upscaling a clip from Resident Evil. We’re pretty sure the rest of the room saw what we saw, since we heard no murmurs of approval. To be frank, it was a pretty terrible demonstration. The film had a monochromatic look to it that lacked depth and the effects of the projector’s motion smoothing processor were both obvious and annoying.

The last clip we viewed was from Sony’s forthcoming film, The Amazing Spiderman. Since it was native 4K content, it was, as you might expect, pretty amazing. Colors were beautiful, skin tone was excellent, black level was top notch and the image had tremendous depth and texture.

So, when fed with elusive 4K content, the VW1000ES delivers the “real theater” experience in spades. But we still think the lack of 4K content makes the projector’s availability a little less exciting, considering its hefty price tag and lackluster 1080p upconversion. Keep your fingers crossed that Sony Pictures delivers on its promise of tapping its 4K library soon.

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post #24 of 287 Old 09-08-2011, 08:27 PM
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You know, as long as the unit supports the HDMI 1.4 4K content input directly - pixel mapped 1:1, we can look foreward and push for better 4K upscaling.
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post #25 of 287 Old 09-08-2011, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inky blacks View Post

I do not understand why anyone would want a 4k projector when the highest format available now and in the foreseeable future is 2k. You just add upscaling distortions and will soften the image. Some people complain that DILA/LCOS projectors already look a bit soft. Going to 4k will only increase this effect.

If a box filter is the best scaling (repeat each pixel value 4 times when going from 2K to 4K) then that could be done with these projectors. I don't know what choices these actually have though or what scalers have as far as letting you choose to upscale using the box filter algorithm. If it were considered the best scaling algorithm for upscaling to an integer multiple of pixels for each axis and in the same physical image size then it should be one of the options given.

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post #26 of 287 Old 09-09-2011, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spizz View Post

Looks like you & Art are both correct. Verifired by another CEDIA attendee as well as Digitrends.

Apparently the VPL-VW1000 doesn't do to well with non 4k material-

Impressions from Digitrends-

Maybe quote the follow up story too?

Quote:


At yesterday's Sony press conference, the company didn't demonstrate the new VPL-VW1000ES 4K projectorthat had to wait until this morning at Sony's booth on a Stewart Ultramatte 150 screen measuring 180 inches diagonally. As with most Sony presentations, this one was mostly talking and not much demo material, but that material was worth the waitexcept for the first clip, which was from Resident Evil at 1080p upconverted to 4K. The clip exhibited severe banding and solarization, which I learned was due to sourcing and processing issues, not the projector. (The original file was 16-bit, which was truncated to 10-bit in the server and then 8-bit for HDMI to the projector.) Also, this clip was projected using Motionflow frame interpolation, which I don't mind, but Tom Norton objected to that more than the banding.

By contrast, the trailer for The Amazing Spider-Man due next year was in native 4K from the server, and it looked, well, amazing. Detail was stunning, and the blacks were better than yesterday's showing of the same clip from the Sony 4K digital-cinema projector. After the formal presentation, I confirmed that the VW1000ES can indeed accept a 4K signal over a single HDMI 1.4 connection. Of course, that won't help most consumers see native 4K content, which will be nonexistent for at least a couple of years to come.

So nothing can be said about non-4k material yet.

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post #27 of 287 Old 09-09-2011, 05:53 PM
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Stephan beat me to it. Time will tell if that is really the case or not.
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post #28 of 287 Old 09-10-2011, 08:52 AM
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...Agreed that adequate light output is more important to making a better picture than resolution is.

Although there has been murmurings for quite some time now that 4K content could be sooner rather than later...and 4K upscaling in external video processors is just around the corner.

2K is just the beginning of our high def home cinema journey. If we can just get software to be 10-bit and more colours than Rec.709 (which looks very dated and washed out when compared to Adobe or DCI...but what else should we expect from a colour system from 1983!)
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post #29 of 287 Old 09-10-2011, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan View Post
Maybe quote the follow up story too?

So nothing can be said about non-4k material yet.
I don't know about that I saw the demo today. While there were some moments in the spiderman demo that looking really good, most of what was there had issues. For example in the still image of an apartment building split between it and a competing projector, the Sony had really bad blue bleed on the set of stairs in addition to a blue cast. The competing projector had slightly softer image but free of these issues. So there is some scaling problem there.

Even in the spiderman clip there were contouring.

In general the resolution differences on the material they picked was very small and I was sitting at ~1X screen width. You really had to squint to see any difference. With still images shot on Sony Alpha DSLR, we can't blame the problem on it.

This being a prototype, perhaps these things will get fixed but for now, it is hard to get excited over this unit.

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post #30 of 287 Old 09-11-2011, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

Agreed !

Art


Disagreed on dci dlp units 2k content on 4k creams 2k on 2k content.way more film like and no stairstepping. There are zero artifacts produced by frame quadrupling on cinema dlp both in the ti board or imb board.

So if that is any indication, the Sony despite lcos may be ok playing 2k on 4k.
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