Datasat RS20i BETA test and comparison with ADA Rhapsody/Trinnov TEQ-12!!!! - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 1417 Old 05-03-2012, 10:30 AM
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Ah right, I forgot that it had "regular" EQ too

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post #722 of 1417 Old 05-03-2012, 12:46 PM
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Carl,
How soon before the RS20i ships with Dolby HD? And is NEO X a near-term addition or part of a more distant roadmap?
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post #723 of 1417 Old 05-03-2012, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post

Carl,
How soon before the RS20i ships with Dolby HD? And is NEO X a near-term addition or part of a more distant roadmap?

I have been told that Dolby HD will be a software patch that should be available by early fall. As to NEO:X, I've heard no commitment.
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post #724 of 1417 Old 05-06-2012, 12:42 AM
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Here is a link of an older review I found from the now defunct Sensible Sound magazine from 2007,that has an in depth review of the older Trinnov Optimizer studio processor with the touch screen.I'm sure the Trinnov has been updated since then,but interesting read nonetheless, if you haven't read it already.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Trinno...r.-a0158832025
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post #725 of 1417 Old 05-20-2012, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Update:

I've had a production RS20i for about a week now, and though I haven't done the Dirac optimization yet, this sounds even better than the prototype I had! I'm very impressed with the sound quality when I'm listening to high-rez files. The new firmware is different enough from the previous version that I'm still getting used to it, though everything appears to be labeled in a straight forward manner. The unit I currently have is silver, and that gets my vote for being the prettiest, though the black was actually closer to a dark gray and looked very cool, the silver has cool and sophisticated going for it.

So far I've been using analog inputs, SPDIF, and even toslink. Toslink actually sounds the worst of the three; but then again it isn't a very good technology.

I'll report more once I've had the opportunity to run Dirac on this unit.

NOTE: this is being used with a relatively simple CAT 2 channel setup.

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post #726 of 1417 Old 05-20-2012, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

Update:

I've had a production RS20i for about a week now, and though I haven't done the Dirac optimization yet, this sounds even better than the prototype I had! I'm very impressed with the sound quality when I'm listening to high-rez files. The new firmware is different enough from the previous version that I'm still getting used to it, though everything appears to be labeled in a straight forward manner. The unit I currently have is silver, and that gets my vote for being the prettiest, though the black was actually closer to a dark gray and looked very cool, the silver has cool and sophisticated going for it...

Dan,

The prototype that you had was pretty much the AP20 Commercial Cinema product but in a RS20i wrapper. The AP20 was (and still is!) a very good sounding box. However I have to agree with you! I have been pleasantly surprised at how our friends at Datasat have been able to tweak that extra 'muchness' into the RS20i. I invite you to slip the RS20i into your larger demo system to truly appreciate the value that has been added.
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post #727 of 1417 Old 05-20-2012, 09:46 PM
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Dan - I would also be keen to hear your take on the final production unit in your normal set-up. Also, if your BETA unit did not have bass management your comments on that function would also be very interesting.
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post #728 of 1417 Old 05-21-2012, 03:57 AM - Thread Starter
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The prototype had bass management, but Datasat has since modified that both graphically (the prototype had no graphics) and functionally (it seems at first glance, I can't say for sure until I play with it).

But I'll report as soon as I can. I probably won't have the time to insert it back into the demo system until after the holiday.

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post #729 of 1417 Old 05-22-2012, 09:08 AM
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Dan,
What's your take on the absence of any height channels?
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post #730 of 1417 Old 05-22-2012, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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For the meantime I don't care too much; the loudspeakers I use in my systems image well enough that height usually isn't an issue. I've also used commercial DSP to generate a pseudo-height signal, so that's an option as well if I need it.

At this point; height channels are a software update away, if the consumers cry for it enough- it will get implemented. Currently there are bigger issues in general that need to be addressed in most systems (starting with consistent performance and proper setup- not generally an issue with the crowd that hangs here, but remember what a minority we are).

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post #731 of 1417 Old 05-23-2012, 02:07 AM
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Hi Guys,

We have been running the RS20i in our PRO Audio demo room for a while now. Our offices in the UK are only 5 mins away from the DataSat HQ which has been very handy! The bass management options in the new firmware had made a very marked improvement in performance though - especially when matched to a good set of Dirac data!

Here are the screens that will be of interest to most people. For reference we run 4 subs which are amped as front and back pairs (hence two channels of output on the RS20i).

It is important to note the flexibility of slopes and cross over frequency which you can match very accurately to the configuration you make in the Dirac configuration software.







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post #732 of 1417 Old 05-29-2012, 12:35 PM
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Those of you in Southern California who wanted to make it to Dan Francis' demo, you now have a local opportunity to see and hear the Trinnov units at THE Show this coming weekend.

I'll be at The Atrium, Room 327.

Cheers,

___________
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post #733 of 1417 Old 06-02-2012, 03:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

Update:

I've had a production RS20i for about a week now, and though I haven't done the Dirac optimization yet, this sounds even better than the prototype I had! I'm very impressed with the sound quality when I'm listening to high-rez files. The new firmware is different enough from the previous version that I'm still getting used to it, though everything appears to be labeled in a straight forward manner. The unit I currently have is silver, and that gets my vote for being the prettiest, though the black was actually closer to a dark gray and looked very cool, the silver has cool and sophisticated going for it.

So far I've been using analog inputs, SPDIF, and even toslink. Toslink actually sounds the worst of the three; but then again it isn't a very good technology.

I'll report more once I've had the opportunity to run Dirac on this unit.

NOTE: this is being used with a relatively simple CAT 2 channel setup.

Dan

I have followed your advice Dan and my RS20i has arrived in Silver and it looks very classy,
it's also nice in indigo but I think silver has the edge in my opinion . It's going to be nice to see how it sounds in our room compared to the ADA cinema Rhapsody which we have had on demo for a while but I think Dirac will be the game changer.
Still the ADA is a tough act to follow.
Thanks Andy
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post #734 of 1417 Old 06-02-2012, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
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My apologies for not posting more on this thread, but I've been too busy working on customer systems lately (inclusive of travel), and what little time I have at home is spent with my family (kids are 3 and 5, so I try to make the most of it).

Dan

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post #735 of 1417 Old 06-02-2012, 11:52 AM
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^^ For cripee's sake, a guy with a life. Who let him in here!
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post #736 of 1417 Old 06-16-2012, 03:38 PM
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Datasat are updating the RS20i with the advanced Dolby codecs by a module that slots into one of the expansion ports at the back of the unit. The module is being provided free to existing owners and is expected in August.

Abone has also briefly posted on avforums that he had attended a dealer's session on the Datasat and is very excited about the future plans for the RS20i. Abone also indicated that Datasat are likely to produce a 'true' black fascia version of the RS20i.
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post #737 of 1417 Old 06-18-2012, 05:20 AM - Thread Starter
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I figured the Dolby card was going to be close CEDIA for release. So are we talking Silver, Indigo, and a "true Black" for colors now- or is Indigo being replaced? Not that it matters, the silver is still the sexiest of the three.

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post #738 of 1417 Old 06-18-2012, 07:00 AM
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Dan....

Have you compared the datasat to the crm4 but without their respective eqs running?

I have a trinnov mc attached to my crm4 and it's pretty amazing what it does. Still trying to work out whether money is best spend on an rs20i or the trinnov mc.

As it stands the crm4 and trinnov mc work out around £12200 all in. The datasat £17400. Is that extra 5k well spent and noticeable on the datasat?

I wonder what the 2 channel audio work is like on the datasat as it have no analogue domain. No direct bypass. Which is where the Ada suite 7.1hd fell down IMO.

The new 3d auro coming out on the datasat looks to be their form of trinnovs 3d remapping.

Oh, and Neil has said that ati will be realising a range of amps for datasat also. Exciting times.
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post #739 of 1417 Old 06-18-2012, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post

The new 3d auro coming out on the datasat looks to be their form of trinnovs 3d remapping.
Auro-Matic upmixing is quite a different animal, with a different purpose, than Trinnov remapping. Trinnov uses remapping to correct the perceived locations of the speaker channels defined in the content. Auro-Matic extrapolates new signals to create a sense of height (from added height speakers) that was not explicit in the source.
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post #740 of 1417 Old 06-18-2012, 02:03 PM
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Roger, are you confusing Auro 3d with NeoX?

Auro has discrete channels up to 13.1 rather than extrapolating from a 7.1 source

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post #741 of 1417 Old 06-18-2012, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceenhad View Post

Auro has discrete channels up to 13.1 rather than extrapolating from a 7.1 source
Auro-Matic is their upmix algorithm for converting legacy mixes (from mono to 7.1) to a 3D mix with up to 13.1 channels. They also make a reverb plug-in (Auro-Verb 3D), amongst other post-production tools.

http://www.auro-technologies.com/system/engine

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post #742 of 1417 Old 06-18-2012, 05:35 PM
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The new 3d auro coming out on the datasat looks to be their form of trinnovs 3d remapping.

Is there a consumer version of Auro-3D? The Datasat website only makes reference to a commercial cinemas.
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post #743 of 1417 Old 06-18-2012, 07:44 PM
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Is there a consumer version of Auro-3D? The Datasat website only makes reference to a commercial cinemas.
Their white paper makes reference to using it on Blu-ray. That's the only format that can carry it, as it has to be delivered losslessly.
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post #744 of 1417 Old 06-18-2012, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I did not specifically test the units against each other without the correction systems- it became way too time consuming to optimize the systems and our room. Having said that, I have been using the RS20i without Dirac engaged in my room (on a 2 channel system though). I found that the Dirac kept making the mid/high band sound like the speakers were out of phase and my imaging completely went away. Disengage Dirac and things tighten right up. I'm looking forward to getting my hands on one of Carl's DL2 (or is it DL3?) devices...maybe an easier implementation.

My opinion is that it's somewhat unfair to compare the Rhapsody to the RS20i without anything, because the RS20i is almost double the price. For me the nod goes to the RS20i, just keep it in a rack: the fan is still kind of noisy (higher in pitch with the production unit than the prototype).

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post #745 of 1417 Old 06-18-2012, 08:52 PM
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Dan - beauty is in the eye of the beholder - I've convinced myself that the indigo is the best colour and if Datasat subsequently stop producing it then I have a 'collectors' item!
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post #746 of 1417 Old 06-19-2012, 06:08 AM
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The guys at Datasat asked if we thaught they should produce one with
a black facia, so my opinion is that it will be added to the list with indego
and Silver. I was also told that coustome colours could be requested at an
additional cost. (I think there is a ferrari red one out there already )
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post #747 of 1417 Old 06-19-2012, 06:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Considering the chassis are done by the Neal Feay company, I'd say that the only real limit is your imagination. Check out their website an you'll see some of the best industrial design in any industry, much less consumer electronics.

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post #748 of 1417 Old 06-19-2012, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

I did not specifically test the units against each other without the correction systems- it became way too time consuming to optimize the systems and our room. Having said that, I have been using the RS20i without Dirac engaged in my room (on a 2 channel system though). I found that the Dirac kept making the mid/high band sound like the speakers were out of phase and my imaging completely went away. Disengage Dirac and things tighten right up. I'm looking forward to getting my hands on one of Carl's DL2 (or is it DL3?) devices...maybe an easier implementation.
My opinion is that it's somewhat unfair to compare the Rhapsody to the RS20i without anything, because the RS20i is almost double the price. For me the nod goes to the RS20i, just keep it in a rack: the fan is still kind of noisy (higher in pitch with the production unit than the prototype).
Dan

Did you note this issue with the mid/high band sound with the Beta unit and when listening to multi-channel?
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post #749 of 1417 Old 06-19-2012, 07:14 PM - Thread Starter
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NOT when it was in our demo room, that was the multi-channel setup. I had some issues early on with 2 channel and Dirac; but we attributed it to the ATC speakers and their unusual low frequency driver.

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post #750 of 1417 Old 06-19-2012, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

...I found that the Dirac kept making the mid/high band sound like the speakers were out of phase and my imaging completely went away. Disengage Dirac and things tighten right up. I'm looking forward to getting my hands on one of Carl's DL2 (or is it DL3?) devices...maybe an easier implementation.
...

Hi Dan, interesting but somewhat worrisome observation, coming from a seasoned pro like you (no sarcasm intended at all, of course). My only experience with room correction so far is with a very crudely set-up, show condition demo, and I heard what I think is a similar phenomenon: singer's voice lost significant image specificity & details. It was not better at all, just more spacious, or worse, simply more echoey. I have a couple of questions please:

1. In your system, did 2 channel Dirac correct the curve to smooth/flat/etc. by measurement, yet sound bad anyway?
2. Or were you not able to get Dirac to yield the desired smooth/flat curve (and hence the bad sound was expected)?

Another question is I would have thought Dirac is Dirac, why would you expect the implementation to be different in in Carl's DL2 unit versus Datasat? If this were true wouldn't we have a can of worms in our hands? Thanks for sharing your experience.

Regards, Can
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