Datasat RS20i BETA test and comparison with ADA Rhapsody/Trinnov TEQ-12!!!! - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 1417 Old 08-23-2012, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by JonasHansen View Post

Interesting! I cant seem to figure out how this product differ from the already existing Trinnov component? Other than a new look.

There is not a whole lot that is new here. Functionally, you can see this as either the mc pro unit without the digital in/outs, or the TEQ units without the ADA control integration. It will be interesting to see how pricing compares with either one of these two boxes. For 8 channels it should be cheaper than both the TEQ8 and the MC8, so (low) price which may be its most compelling feature. If they sell the 8 channel for say 8-10K it could be interesting for owners of good processors without DRC (Theta, Bryston) that want get into the DRC game.
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post #902 of 1417 Old 08-23-2012, 06:43 AM
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I would be tempted to try it out myself too smile.gif I need 16 channels out though, but that should be possible if they deliver what they write.

Wonder if it will be 48khz processing like the ADA version or 96khz.

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post #903 of 1417 Old 08-23-2012, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by JonasHansen View Post

I would be tempted to try it out myself too smile.gif I need 16 channels out though, but that should be possible if they deliver what they write.
Wonder if it will be 48khz processing like the ADA version or 96khz.

The Trinnov engine and DACs support 96/24, so this should be user selectable. I'm surprised the TEQ processes at 48/24 and does not at least give you the option to do 96/24..
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post #904 of 1417 Old 08-23-2012, 03:16 PM
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I think the major thing is that the Magnitude32 can be purchased as a 32 channel version vs. the MC which can only be configured for up to 24.I don't know if "Image remapping" is somehow different than 2D/3D remapping,but I wouldn't doubt there haven't been improvements done in that area as well.
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post #905 of 1417 Old 08-23-2012, 06:47 PM
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It seems that the new Magnitude will have 8 XLR inputs which makes it very similar to the TEQ. If we speak only about ANalog unit, I would rather go with the TEQ Trinnov....more pleasing for the eye and also with great quality. It is pitty that the Magnitude doesn't offer Digital inputs...
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post #906 of 1417 Old 08-25-2012, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by edorr View Post

For 8 channels it should be cheaper than both the TEQ8 and the MC8, so (low) price which may be its most compelling feature.

How could that be, with 32 output channels?

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post #907 of 1417 Old 08-25-2012, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

How could that be, with 32 output channels?

I am of course talking about the 8 channel version.
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post #908 of 1417 Old 08-25-2012, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by edorr View Post

I am of course talking about the 8 channel version.

Ah; I assumed that with Magnitude32 engraved on the front panel, all versions would have that.

Still, I expect the 8 ch pro version is a good deal less expensive than the pretty HT one, same as other HT/pro components with the same functionality.

Oh wait, there isn't an 8 in/8 out pro version, is there?

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post #909 of 1417 Old 08-25-2012, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Ah; I assumed that with Magnitude32 engraved on the front panel, all versions would have that.
Still, I expect the 8 ch pro version is a good deal less expensive than the pretty HT one, same as other HT/pro components with the same functionality.
Oh wait, there isn't an 8 in/8 out pro version, is there?

There is an 8 channel pro, but it has both digital and analog in/outs - it is around 12K. The chassis of the HT version is not that different than the mc pro - since the Magnitude32 it has no digi in/out, I would expect it to be cheaper than the mc8 pro.
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post #910 of 1417 Old 08-25-2012, 06:01 PM
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Thanks for everyone's interest in the new Magnitude 32 -

A preliminary reply to questions....

Background

Trinnov has had 32 channel capability for years now, but in the past it required the larger Trinnov MC platform running a (studio standard) digital MIDI interface to a bank of external premium pro converters (Lynx Aurora, SSL, or Prisim). The big news here is that Trinnov now has 32 channel functionality in one compact unit using Trinnov premium converter technology. The typical installs that we've been using the higher channel count on are sophisticated home theaters that utilize a combination of high speaker/subwoofer count combined in some cases with active crossovers.

One example is a recently completed HT that has a bi-amped 11.6 configuration (28 speaker feeds), with possibility for additional height channels. Hi channel count Trinnovs are typically fed 5.1 or 7.1 content that is then spatially processed to the speaker configuration. The 11 bi-amped speakers take advantage of Trinnov's automated crossover calibration during setup, which is a separate process that is accomplished before the room/speaker calibration. While these high channel count systems (24-32 channels) utilized digital I/O to the converters, seldom are digital inputs used because of the increased complexity. For someone who wants 32 channels including digital I/O, the Trinnov solution has been available for some time and, additionally, there are now some components available to take advantage of this.

All units in the Trinnov and ADA Lineup share the same Trinnov proprietary hardware components, which are modular. The software is also shared, with minor differences in the user interface while sharing equal performance and flexibility, with software updates available via the Internet (15 min download).

A basic comparison of Multichannel unit features MC2 and Magnitude 32
  • All share same Trinnov proprietary hardware components, which are modular.
  • MC2 (pro) has up to 16 channels I/O, Magnitude 32 has up to 32 channels.
  • Both units use a combination of XLR and Tascam Standard DB25 connectors (DB25-XLR cables are plentiful, available at all price points)
  • MC2 has 8 XLR outs, Magnitude 32 has both 8 XLR out and 8 XLR in
  • Both units share software features*. This means all 2D/3D, EQ, xovers, are common features amoung all machines.(* pro units offer optional software monitoring functions unique to pro applications-see Trinnov.com for details)
  • Sample rates in all Trinnov units are a function of the channel count and processing power available
    (A doubling of sample rate (ie 48k to 96k) requires a quadrupling (4x) of processing power required. Sample rates possible are a function of channels processed. Hardware is designed for a max sample rate of 24/192k. Current software impose limitation is 24/96k. Planned future development will allow for a 24/192k functionality (within the CPU limitations of the given platform))

The ADA TEQ and Reference share hardware and software components with various Trinnov branded units. ADA also has added the following premium upgrades to make the system easily integrated into typical HT:
  • TEQ adds both balanced and unbalanced I/O,
  • TEQ has Software selectable hardware I/O gain (On Trinnov units, must move board jumpers),
  • TEQ has Front panel functions: Power, Mic input, 5 Trinnov function switches, and Rotary Level Knob (Trinnov has on/off power)
  • Reference has touchscreen display
  • All ADA units include ADAnet Bus for inter connectivity (Trinnov has RS232)
  • All ADA units have built in mic power/preamp (Trinnov mic requires a battery)

As we move forward to CEDIA, I look forward to sharing more details as they become available.
.

Cheers,

Curt Hoyt
Trinnov Audio USA

___________
Curt Hoyt
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Trinnov Audio
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post #911 of 1417 Old 08-26-2012, 01:43 PM
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The $64,000 question( unintended pun ): Do you have any information on the retail pricing of the Maginitude32 processors?
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post #912 of 1417 Old 08-26-2012, 06:10 PM - Thread Starter
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one - million - dollars!!!!! HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!

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post #913 of 1417 Old 08-26-2012, 06:46 PM
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one - million - dollars!!!!! HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!
Hope you had your pinky at your mouth when typing that.

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post #914 of 1417 Old 08-27-2012, 01:33 AM
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Well, the RS20i is in the house and it looks a load better than the AP20, expected off corse. One thing that immediately stood out was how much quieter the actual machine is(the fans). The AP20 was pretty loud. I have yet to hook it up to the speakers, will do so soon. I will get back with my impressions compared to the AP20.
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post #915 of 1417 Old 08-27-2012, 02:54 AM
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What colour did you opt for Dave?
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post #916 of 1417 Old 08-27-2012, 06:34 AM
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I went with the Indigo face-plate color.

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post #917 of 1417 Old 08-27-2012, 09:23 PM
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We recently signed up and are expecting our RS20i any day now. I am very excited to get my hands on this unit and begin testing with it. I plan to re-calibrate our showroom and learn the features in and out.

Also look forward to the upcoming training at CEDIA.
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post #918 of 1417 Old 08-28-2012, 03:45 AM
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I went with the Indigo face-plate color.

Same as mine!
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post #919 of 1417 Old 08-28-2012, 06:07 AM
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I'm also looking Tact tcs mkiii.

Forget about the TacT TCS Mk III. Two years after purchase, Boz had still not fixed the bug that was bugging me the most. I never got mine to work properly and reliably. HDMI would stop functioning when playing back certain BluRays and lock up the whole unit, odd clicks every now and then, etc. When the unit worked, I *loved* it, but watching a movie half way through and then having to take a break to reboot the TCS was no fun. Pure enjoyment turned into a major annoyance. The man behind the unit (Radomir Bozovic, aka Boz) stopped returning phone calls in March. Since late April all you get is their answering machine. Their web site was hacked sometime in June or early July and a VIRUS THREAT "Exploit Blackhole Exploit Kit (type 2170)" (according to AVG anti-virus) appears when you visit the site.

It appears TacT Audio is out of business. eek.gif

I sold my TCS Mk III to an avid TacT/Lyngdorf fan in England who knew about the issues. He wanted it as a spare since it looks like manufacturer support is history...
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post #920 of 1417 Old 08-28-2012, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Nielsen View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by orologio View Post

I'm also looking Tact tcs mkiii.
Forget about the TacT TCS Mk III. Two years after purchase, Boz had still not fixed the bug that was bugging me the most. I never got mine to work properly and reliably. HDMI would stop functioning when playing back certain BluRays and lock up the whole unit, odd clicks every now and then, etc. When the unit worked, I *loved* it, but watching a movie half way through and then having to take a break to reboot the TCS was no fun. Pure enjoyment turned into a major annoyance. The man behind the unit (Radomir Bozovic, aka Boz) stopped returning phone calls in March. Since late April all you get is their answering machine. Their web site was hacked sometime in June or early July and a VIRUS (!) appeared when you visit the site (looks like the hosting company recently discovered the issue, because the virus is now gone).
It appears TacT Audio is out of business. eek.gif
I sold my TCS Mk III to an avid TacT/Lyngdorf fan in England who knew about the issues. He wanted it as a spare since it looks like manufacturer support is history...
That sounds all oh so familiar.... mad.gif
Oh, well. Life goes on, with a RS20i. wink.gif
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post #921 of 1417 Old 08-28-2012, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Nielsen View Post

Forget about the TacT TCS Mk III. Two years after purchase, Boz had still not fixed the bug that was bugging me the most. I never got mine to work properly and reliably. HDMI would stop functioning when playing back certain BluRays and lock up the whole unit, odd clicks every now and then, etc. When the unit worked, I *loved* it, but watching a movie half way through and then having to take a break to reboot the TCS was no fun. Pure enjoyment turned into a major annoyance. The man behind the unit (Radomir Bozovic, aka Boz) stopped returning phone calls in March. Since late April all you get is their answering machine. Their web site was hacked sometime in June or early July and a VIRUS (!) appeared when you visit the site (looks like the hosting company recently discovered the issue, because the virus is now gone).
It appears TacT Audio is out of business. eek.gif
I sold my TCS Mk III to an avid TacT/Lyngdorf fan in England who knew about the issues. He wanted it as a spare since it looks like manufacturer support is history...
Like wise my experience with the device has been hellish. I had some of the channels intermittently act up. So I went in the software and told it to redownload the firmware. Well, that bricked the device and would no longer boot. I contacted Boz and he tells me I should have never tried that. I explained that what I did was a standard option in the software he provides with the darn thing. He kept repeating that I had no business doing the firmware reload. So I asked him how I get the thing fixed. He said he had no idea since my unit is discontinued. I paid $10K for the unit originally and $6K to get it upgraded to version II. And now he is telling me it is a dead end after $16K of expense. I asked if he had any spare parts. He said no. I asked how that can be as surely he has a development unit that he would work on. And again he said there is nothing.

I opened the unit and find hand rework of a Samsung flash memory next to the DSP. I look under a magnifying glass and see that two pins have a sold bridge over them (i.e. shorted)! That was the likely cause of firmware reload putting the wrong bits in there causing it to no longer boot. So at the end was sloppy upgrade work.

So I have a $16K door stop.

Amir
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"Insist on Quality Engineering"

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post #922 of 1417 Old 08-28-2012, 01:58 PM
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That sounds all oh so familiar.... mad.gif
Oh, well. Life goes on, with a RS20i. wink.gif

Good for you. I got burnt so bad by my five year "TacT experience" (TCS Mk2, Mk3, Boz 216 and nine 2200 modules) that I'm not ready to deal with another beta unit. Maybe I'll have a look at the RS20i when it has matured in 2 years or so. For now, it looks like I will go with proven technology: the SDP-40HD (Lexicon 12HD). Sure it may be outdated, but it does the things I need and I expect it to do that without getting me annoyed to the point that it's a health hazard tongue.gif
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post #923 of 1417 Old 08-28-2012, 02:17 PM
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I explained that what I did was a standard option in the software he provides with the darn thing. He kept repeating that I had no business doing the firmware reload.

Nothing was wrong with your unit! TacT TCS and Boz hardware is always hand patched like you describe, and the solder bridges are normal. What's wrong is that the TCS PC software that TacT ships to customers has functions that lets the customer ERASE the bootloader, and effectively require a factory reflash of the motherboard. This is ludicrous! These functions should not be available in customer sofware since the customer has no way to restore the flash. rolleyes.gif

I did the same mistake with one of my Boz 2200 modules. Eventually I sent in the control board to Boz and he reflashed it. With a hell of a lot of patience and smooth talk I always managed to get Boz to fix things, but sometimes it took several dozen phone calls and up to 3 months to get just one small issue resolved. And there were dozens and dozens of issues to solve.... Crazy!
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For now, it looks like I will go with proven technology: the SDP-40HD (Lexicon 12HD). Sure it may be outdated, but it does the things I need and I expect it to do that without getting me annoyed to the point that it's a health hazard.
In that case, save some money and try to get a used MC-12HD. No sense paying full price for a brand new SDP-40HD when you can get the same functionality for less.

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post #925 of 1417 Old 08-28-2012, 02:52 PM
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Nothing was wrong with your unit! TacT TCS and Boz hardware is always hand patched like you describe, and the solder bridges are normal. What's wrong is that the TCS PC software that TacT ships to customers has functions that lets the customer ERASE the bootloader, and effectively require a factory reflash of the motherboard. This is ludicrous! These functions should not be available in customer sofware since the customer has no way to restore the flash. rolleyes.gif
I did the same mistake with one of my Boz 2200 modules. Eventually I sent in the control board to Boz and he reflashed it. With a hell of a lot of patience and smooth talk I always managed to get Boz to fix things, but sometimes it took several dozen phone calls and up to 3 months to get just one small issue resolved. And there were dozens and dozens of issues to solve.... Crazy!

Wierd his stuff seemed so cool at past CES demos. I really liked going to the laptop and with a mouse clip grabbing the FR curve and changing it.

Oh well another one is done it appears.

Whatever happened to HALCRO?

Off topic sorry...

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post #926 of 1417 Old 08-28-2012, 02:55 PM
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In that case, save some money and try to get a used MC-12HD. No sense paying full price for a brand new SDP-40HD when you can get the same functionality for less.

Thanks for the advice, but I can get a new one at a very good price or a B-stock for less than used units sell on eBay. I don't want to risk a used unit and I'd rather pay a bit more for a new unit with full warranty.
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post #927 of 1417 Old 08-28-2012, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Like wise my experience with the device has been hellish. I had some of the channels intermittently act up. So I went in the software and told it to redownload the firmware. Well, that bricked the device and would no longer boot. I contacted Boz and he tells me I should have never tried that. I explained that what I did was a standard option in the software he provides with the darn thing. He kept repeating that I had no business doing the firmware reload. So I asked him how I get the thing fixed. He said he had no idea since my unit is discontinued. I paid $10K for the unit originally and $6K to get it upgraded to version II. And now he is telling me it is a dead end after $16K of expense. I asked if he had any spare parts. He said no. I asked how that can be as surely he has a development unit that he would work on. And again he said there is nothing.
I opened the unit and find hand rework of a Samsung flash memory next to the DSP. I look under a magnifying glass and see that two pins have a sold bridge over them (i.e. shorted)! That was the likely cause of firmware reload putting the wrong bits in there causing it to no longer boot. So at the end was sloppy upgrade work.
So I have a $16K door stop.
That is horrible.
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post #928 of 1417 Old 08-28-2012, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by stephenbr View Post

Same as mine!
Very nice. Have you got it set up yet. And where you an AP20 user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhafner View Post

That sounds all oh so familiar.... mad.gif
Oh, well. Life goes on, with a RS20i. wink.gif

So how many people have the RS20i on this forum? Seems like a few are starting to pop up?

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post #929 of 1417 Old 08-28-2012, 08:11 PM
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Very nice. Have you got it set up yet. And where you an AP20 user?
So how many people have the RS20i on this forum? Seems like a few are starting to pop up?

Dave - I have my RS20i set up but am yet to run Dirac (hopefully this weekend) . I am loving it and very excited about its future. I didn't have an AP20 beforehand.
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post #930 of 1417 Old 08-28-2012, 08:30 PM
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What are you using to take the measurements? Or should I say will you use?

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