Datasat RS20i BETA test and comparison with ADA Rhapsody/Trinnov TEQ-12!!!! - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 1419 Old 11-20-2011, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLion View Post

Amir,

your posted screenshot has quite some deviation from the Synthesis target curves I am used to. Is this the target you/JBL calibrates to these days?

I believe so. My chief designer was doing the calibration and I stepped in asking him to save those screenshots. I am pretty sure he did not modify the curve but I will ask.

BTW, what is it that you are noticing in there? It seems to me to still have a slightly downward slope which is what I thought Harman has advocated.

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Do you always use the same target curve or is that dependend on the speakers used, room size, preferred listening level...?

We do the auto mode first and then manually trim the filter bandwidth and levels (the graph at the bottom) manually by ear. In one case for example, the sub (not JBL brand at the time) was bottoming out so we dialed it back some.

Quote:


Is Synthesis DRC still frequency "only" or is some form of "time domain"/group delay correction also integrated with the SDEC-4500?

I am unclear on your question . But yes, the only place currently to get SFM and ARCOS EQ is in SDEC-4500. That should change with the release of Lexicon MP-20.

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I would really like to try the target curve you posted - could you please give the exact parameters (I modeled after your screenshot and liking what I hear. I think this is a good variation of the B&K "optimal Hifi target curve")

Thank you very much!

I will ask to see if there is a way to extract it.

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post #92 of 1419 Old 11-20-2011, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

Interesting screenshot, Amir. I'd like to see what that looks like measured with something NOT labeled "JBL Synthesis". Unfortunately, there's no indication of what that resolution is, nor is there an indication of the smoothing. It's an excellent response, to be sure, but what I'm trying to do here is utilize third-party tools to verify what the various parties involved in my experiment are "claiming".

There is nothing being "claimed" as in Audessey saying what it thinks it is going to do vs what it is doing. If the system is lying there, it is also lying to itself in how it corrects the room and something tells me that is not the case .

That said, yes, I don't know what smoothing is applying to the graph so maybe there is some marketing going on there.

Then again, see how up front they are with showing the filter points and their coefficients/bandwidth. Double click on any of those points and you get a full view of the filter that you can modify at will. The filters nicely show what correction is done and at what level. It is very hard to lie there.
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What was the distance from the mic to the loudspeaker? Arrival time of 35.6ms leads me to guess that the measurement distance was in the neighborhood of 20-something feet (I'm assuming roughly 10 ms latency for the DSP).

Your numbers are close. I don't have the exact figures. The JBL system uses 8 mics which we place at all seating positions and I think a couple in different places. Which one is used to arrive at the millisecond value, I don't know.

Quote:
There are swings in that trace (pre-) of more than 10db in the low end, and a midbass depression of 4-5 db spanning almost the entire octave of 500-1k; 'guessing the highpass crossover is in the 600 hz range.

The response of any speaker speaker below the transition frequency is dictated by the room. So the "10 db at the low end" is to be expected. You can change the speaker and you will still get that hump or some variations thereof. The room dictates it more than the speaker.

Expanding, that is why we don't generally rely on EQ to solve low frequency response. That is actually the third step. I am writing an article on this but for a teaser, see the audio portion of this presentation on Video for Audiophiles.

I am actually pleased in the way Synthesis managed to fix what it did there.

Quote:
That pre-calibration trace isn't quite as rosy at it appears at first glance, and certainly the JBL hardware does a neat job of cleaning the FR. I'd really like to measure with independent hardware to see the real power/accuracy of what the ARCOS system does.

I am fine with that . It is not a concern for me though as just like you, the results speak for themselves.

We used to have two parallel systems in our reference theater, one with planar magnetic speakers and Audyssey pro. The other as you see with JBL speakers and Synthesis EQ I showed here. Here is the picture from that presentation:



Who wouldn't fall in love with that speaker array and planar speakers? Yet the truth of performance said otherwise.

Since Audyssey doesn't show or do post correction measurement, we did that manually and it was a disaster. It had the dips that you spoke of. And no amount of manually fixing them made a difference. The sound was just wrong, even if the response was flatter. We messed with it for a while but eventually decided to rip it all out as not one customer preferred that to our JBL system in our reference theater. Which I should say, is much cheaper.

BTW, the JBL software goes through a full calibration pass for the mics, the results of which it also shows together with the correction.

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Although Synthesis hasn't appealed to me from the "sound" aspect; their technology has fascinated me for quite some time! Of course, it doesn't hurt to have the resources of the "mother ship" to play with.

Lot of people have that bias. But remarkable thing happens when you put said speakers behind screen and they can't see their ordinary/commercial look and the horns. And then they rave about their sound. Count me as one of those ultra biased people . I was one of the people advocating the planar magnetic speakers only to eat my own words. Now I am in the process of putting the JBLs in my own personal theater. I will of course try to hide them just the same.

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I guess the comment to be made is: less is more.

Definitely. As I mentioned above and in that linked presentation, Room EQ is the third step/tool in the process. The first is always, always multiple subs, optimally placed. The sins created there cannot be erased elsewhere.

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post #93 of 1419 Old 11-20-2011, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Sanjay; that comment wasn't intended to come off as a jab- it just ended-up looking that way. Although, reading it back it IS kind of funny sounding.

Amir; my contention with all of these automated processes is that unless measured separately by a third-party tool, we simply have no idea what the devices are ACTUALLY doing to both the FR and the phase response. A perfect case in point is the Wisdom system you mention- according to Audyssey I'm sure things were great- but you don't get the whole picture- you get the picture they give you, and you have to work with that. I wonder what you could do with a system like Wisdom utilizing processing like Lake or Biamp, or the BSS products (basis for Synthesis) instead of the Audyssey they chose to go with. Also, instead of class D amplification, perhaps class AB or even H for all but the bottom end. I'm really kind of thinking out loud with this.

I'll be getting a demo of an interesting design toward the end of the month- I'll keep you posted on my opinions.

Dan

BTW- that picture isn't Neil Young is it?

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post #94 of 1419 Old 11-20-2011, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

I wonder what you could do with a system like Wisdom utilizing processing like Lake or Biamp, or the BSS products (basis for Synthesis) instead of the Audyssey they chose to go with. Also, instead of class D amplification, perhaps class AB or even H for all but the bottom end. I'm really kind of thinking out loud with this.

Tried almost all of that . We put in Mark Levinson amplification in there and that made an improvement in the highs and eliminated the hiss we were getting. We got custom software for our JBL Synthesis SDEC processor and expanded it to 40 channels to correct both the JBL and Wisdom racks. Alas we could not get Wisdom to give us the EQ curves for the bass array and planar (they are bi-amped with active crossover like our JBL) and they told us without that we could damage the planar units. Their solution was to cascade the Synthesis with the Audyssey being a $6K crossover. We gave that a brief try (no room EQ) but it simply was not a system we could sell to anyone. Too expensive and too many domain changes from analog to digital. So we gave up and parted ways amicably with the company.

Others may be able to get them to perform and I have heard of dealers who sell a lot of them. We just couldn't. All the while the automated system with JBL worked from minute one and kept impressing people. So we had no motivation left to keep cooking things up there.

Quote:
I'll be getting a demo of an interesting design toward the end of the month- I'll keep you posted on my opinions.

Dan

BTW- that picture isn't Neil Young is it?

Thanks. No, that is one of our salespeople.

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post #95 of 1419 Old 11-20-2011, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

Interesting screenshot, Amir. I'd like to see what that looks like measured with something NOT labeled "JBL Synthesis". Unfortunately, there's no indication of what that resolution is, nor is there an indication of the smoothing. It's an excellent response, to be sure, but what I'm trying to do here is utilize third-party tools to verify what the various parties involved in my experiment are "claiming".

This is a key point. Once any measurement system develops the "error curve" (the original response) it can presumably invert it to make a correction curve, and as we've seen from Audyssey, the sum of the two look pretty flat, smooth, free of errors (unless the errors either exceed correction range or are not appropriate for EQ like a cancellation null). That just proves the EQ has sufficient range and resolution to invert the curve. It does not tell us anything about the final sound, as we do not know what target curve was used, any smoothing, or whether the applied EQ removes or introduces other sonic artifacts.

So some "neutral" means of evaluating the EQ'd results is needed. Listening is of course the ultimate guide but it's very subjective. Measurements as by SMAART or REW or the like are useful, but the results will vary by the process used; how many mic positions, in what density of pattern, how were they averaged, etc.

If there are measurement systems and practices that have been shown to correlate with good sound quality, then we're getting somewhere. Which ones are they specifically? Speaking for myself, a combination of a target curve and measurements/averaging based on REW would be something that many of us could use to compare results across many systems. I'm just not sure how well any given model holds up when the acoustics/speakers vary as widely as found across many consumer systems. Therein lies the difference between how a roomEQ algorithm thinks and how an acoustics measurement kit measures. One interprets, the other does not. Can we ever expect them to correlate?

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post #96 of 1419 Old 11-22-2011, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

I believe so. My chief designer was doing the calibration and I stepped in asking him to save those screenshots. I am pretty sure he did not modify the curve but I will ask.

BTW, what is it that you are noticing in there? It seems to me to still have a slightly downward slope which is what I thought Harman has advocated.


We do the auto mode first and then manually trim the filter bandwidth and levels (the graph at the bottom) manually by ear. In one case for example, the sub (not JBL brand at the time) was bottoming out so we dialed it back some.


I am unclear on your question . But yes, the only place currently to get SFM and ARCOS EQ is in SDEC-4500. That should change with the release of Lexicon MP-20.


I will ask to see if there is a way to extract it.

Thank you Amir, I appreciate your efforts. Is the SDEC-4500 / target curve calibrated towards 1/3 octave smoothing?
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post #97 of 1419 Old 11-28-2011, 06:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, the Trinnov install starts in about 1.5 hours. I decided against the added expense of custom-made cables from Whirlwind and made them myself. The reason for integrating the Trinnov first? It's more complex to integrate than the Datasat. I'll be reconfiguring how the entire system is connected, but once that is done, switching between them should be as simple as moving one HDMI and 12 XLRs. well, that's the plan, anyway.

More in a while.

Dan

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post #98 of 1419 Old 11-28-2011, 07:10 AM
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Great thread Dan!

Never become so involved with something that it blinds you.
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post #99 of 1419 Old 11-28-2011, 08:49 AM
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For those who dont know what the back of a TEQ12 looks like!

This came through the office last week for a quick check en-route to the site.


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post #100 of 1419 Old 11-28-2011, 09:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the feedback, Bulldogger, I appreciate the support I'm getting quite a bit. I've already been chasing this experiment for 2 months- and I feel like I'm just getting started!
At this point, it's looking like actually having a live-demo for forum members won't happen until after CES- with the Holidays officially upon us, anything between now and Jan 1 is inconvenient at best for people who will want to travel here to experience this. I need to discuss this with both parties (Datasat and ADA), as my "loan" times for both pieces expires before then...

" here comes the smolder...."

Dan

-yes, I have a daughter whose 4, and I know that movie word-for-word already...the things we do for our kids..

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post #101 of 1419 Old 11-28-2011, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
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....for those of you following along at home....

Here's what I have to do first;

re-route all HDMI to be switched through the Lumagen, then output to the Rhapsody (currently configured the opposite way).

upload a new configuration reflecting these changes to the Savant automation system

test Savant to make sure the system remains functional while I integrate the Trinnov

possibly reconfigure Rhapsody control from rs-232 via ISO-CATII to IP because I think the ADA-Bus cable needs to connect the TEQ and the Rhapsody----and all that entails (I've been trying to avoid the whole IP control of the processor because the rs-232 is so reliable and easy to setup).

THEN I get to start playing with the TEQ for real....finally....well after Curt and I decide the best workflow for me...

Oh, and to make things interesting; I have a live demo of the room for one of the leading realtors in my area (and her partner) on the 6th- so everything has to work flawlessly by then.

Dan

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post #102 of 1419 Old 11-28-2011, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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HDMI reconfigure successful, Savant updated flawlessly, per-Richard I don't need to worry about the ADA bus between the TEQ and Rhapsody in my system.

...so far so good!

Install time.

Dan

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post #103 of 1419 Old 11-28-2011, 11:24 AM
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Very cool Dan!

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post #104 of 1419 Old 11-28-2011, 12:22 PM
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I didn't realize how complex the whole system is; that sure sounded like a nightmare waiting to happen.

Glad it the Rhapsody reconfiguration went smoothly, hope it continues.

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Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

....for those of you following along at home....

Here's what I have to do first;

re-route all HDMI to be switched through the Lumagen, then output to the Rhapsody (currently configured the opposite way).

upload a new configuration reflecting these changes to the Savant automation system

test Savant to make sure the system remains functional while I integrate the Trinnov

possibly reconfigure Rhapsody control from rs-232 via ISO-CATII to IP because I think the ADA-Bus cable needs to connect the TEQ and the Rhapsody----and all that entails (I've been trying to avoid the whole IP control of the processor because the rs-232 is so reliable and easy to setup).

THEN I get to start playing with the TEQ for real....finally....well after Curt and I decide the best workflow for me...

Oh, and to make things interesting; I have a live demo of the room for one of the leading realtors in my area (and her partner) on the 6th- so everything has to work flawlessly by then.

Dan


Noah
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post #105 of 1419 Old 11-28-2011, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Not necessarily a nightmare, but certainly not for the faint of heart!

12, 12-foot long cables- that is a pain in the a$$ to fit into a rack (I need the cables long enough to reach back out of the rack to be connected to the Datasat on the floor- eventually).

TEQ is now in the rack and connected to the Rhapsody and subsequent amplifiers and powered speakers.

Next I have to change some settings inside the Rhapsody (enable TEQ, Disable my PEQ settings, and save as another recall). Then a call to Curt to figure out how to obtain the IP address of the TEQ for my VNC connection.

I'll get this thing measured today, I bet. 'Good thing Curt is 2 hours behind me.

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post #106 of 1419 Old 11-28-2011, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

Then a call to Curt to figure out how to obtain the IP address of the TEQ for my VNC connection.

You have to either plug it in to a monitor (in fact that is exactly what I was doing above) or just check in your router/switch to see the IP.

More fundamentally, you need the product ID from the about screen to use as a password for the VNC connection. Better get the VGA cables out...

Neil

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post #107 of 1419 Old 11-28-2011, 02:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Monitor and mouse plugged-in, I'm waiting to get into the network to obtain IP address. I'm looking at the Help screen now. I have the product ID, just need the IP for VNC.

Dan

Thanks

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post #108 of 1419 Old 11-28-2011, 03:11 PM
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Setup->Network->Apply?

assuming DHCP of course. Otherwise the same tab allows you to change all of the network settings.

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post #109 of 1419 Old 11-28-2011, 03:39 PM - Thread Starter
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got it, we're online now. Richard talked me through it. 'Need to open the port in the network so they can follow along with what I'm doing inside- but that will come tomorrow.

I figure I'll be taking measurements within the next hour or so- first some food, though.

back in a while

Dan

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post #110 of 1419 Old 11-28-2011, 03:48 PM
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LOL!

My first time was using a pair of 12s setup with active crossovers 5000 miles from home and the best I got was 10 minutes of Curts time on the phone as he went between airports!

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post #111 of 1419 Old 11-28-2011, 07:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Taking measurements now. Just finished an extensive conversation with Curt; there's a lot to cover with this device...now the fun truly begins.

I won't be listening until at least 10 local time.

Dan

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post #112 of 1419 Old 11-29-2011, 12:16 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, made it through the first round of measurements- pretty easy stuff once you've setup the device for what you want.

It's interesting how sensitive the microphone is to shading from furniture, etc. If the crest factor fell below 30 for too long- I'd get this warning on the screen "Crest factor too low head 3" or whatever number capsule was being shaded. Typically this happened in cases where the microphone was in an extreme off-axis location from a particular speaker. I'm certain this sound comes from the reduced group delay and the tighter phase response from all loudspeakers in the system (hardly any variation from channel to channel).

Curt did a great job again, going over all the ins and outs of what to expect in the use of the TEQ. It was nice, he was able to VNC to my TEQ and show me in real time, and I could experience the changes- then I would drive and try it out. I'm not dissatisfied with the tool that I now have at my disposal; there's some further tweaking to do when it comes to the subs (the big ??? for this experiment for both systems, actually), I'm getting closer to what I want already, but I wan to discuss a couple things with Richard and Curt before I implement them.

How does it sound???

nothing- that's how it sounds- like it isn't even in the signal chain. When you bypass the TEQ you immediately notice how muddy everything becomes, the soundfield collapses, and you're left with mush. I heard very similar results to what was done by Dirac to the temporary monitors; the upper end was made much cleaner, larger sense of space, greater detail and intelligibility across the board.
My only "huh?" was an apparent lack of sub involvement. I fixed some of it by changing the target curves for the subs, so I'm sure there's more that I'll need to learn about and practice.

It's cool to be able to see all the different parameters that the TEQ looks at, and adjusts to your tastes.

All in all, I spent about 12 hours tearing apart, rebuilding, reprogramming, and reconfiguring my demo theater- and on the first try with the TEQ have what I consider to be acceptable performance on my first try. Not bad, not bad at all ( it helps to have a working knowledge of devices like this already through the commercial work I do ).

More later....when I kick the subs in the tail to get what I'm after.

Dan

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post #113 of 1419 Old 11-29-2011, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

OK, made it through the first round of measurements- pretty easy stuff once you've setup the device for what you want.

It's interesting how sensitive the microphone is to shading from furniture, etc. If the crest factor fell below 30 for too long- I'd get this warning on the screen "Crest factor too low head 3" or whatever number capsule was being shaded. Typically this happened in cases where the microphone was in an extreme off-axis location from a particular speaker. I'm certain this sound comes from the reduced group delay and the tighter phase response from all loudspeakers in the system (hardly any variation from channel to channel).

Curt did a great job again, going over all the ins and outs of what to expect in the use of the TEQ. It was nice, he was able to VNC to my TEQ and show me in real time, and I could experience the changes- then I would drive and try it out. I'm not dissatisfied with the tool that I now have at my disposal; there's some further tweaking to do when it comes to the subs (the big ??? for this experiment for both systems, actually), I'm getting closer to what I want already, but I wan to discuss a couple things with Richard and Curt before I implement them.

How does it sound???

nothing- that's how it sounds- like it isn't even in the signal chain. When you bypass the TEQ you immediately notice how muddy everything becomes, the soundfield collapses, and you're left with mush. I heard very similar results to what was done by Dirac to the temporary monitors; the upper end was made much cleaner, larger sense of space, greater detail and intelligibility across the board.
My only "huh?" was an apparent lack of sub involvement. I fixed some of it by changing the target curves for the subs, so I'm sure there's more that I'll need to learn about and practice.

It's cool to be able to see all the different parameters that the TEQ looks at, and adjusts to your tastes.

All in all, I spent about 12 hours tearing apart, rebuilding, reprogramming, and reconfiguring my demo theater- and on the first try with the TEQ have what I consider to be acceptable performance on my first try. Not bad, not bad at all ( it helps to have a working knowledge of devices like this already through the commercial work I do ).

More later....when I kick the subs in the tail to get what I'm after.

Dan

Wow! Looks like the piece.

Does it have any auto-set up modes to get you in the ball park or is it EQ the room from the ground up?

Nice work!

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There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #114 of 1419 Old 11-29-2011, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
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The setup is manual, but the process is automated from there -for the measurements and filter generation. Since you have control over the target curve, you're controlling the filters that get generated indirectly. Some categories of adjustment include phase, group delay, amplitude, and amplitude direct (ignores the room interaction).

Now that I have the setup time invested, taking further measurements (additional locations in the room) and further computation takes little time. At this point I get to tweak the target curves, and perhaps adjust some of the parameters I have set in the device (loudspeaker passbands, crossover slopes and shapes, etc.). What's nice is that I don't have to start from zero every time I want to measure; I just add the parameters for the next measurement location, add the location, and start rolling.

The TEQ ships with some setup presets built-in from ADA; these are things like 7.1 SMPTE, ITU, 5.1, 2.1, etc. general layout presets to get the ball rolling and bring you a couple steps down the path to measuring. If you start with one of those presets and modify it as necessary to match your setup; you add the parameters for your measurement locations, adjust target curves, speaker configurations, input configuration, output configuration, active crossovers (if necessary), bass management parameters,.....

very complete tool, at first it feels a little daunting but once you get the hang of where everything lives in the UI, it's pretty easy to manipulate (at least it is for me, since I'm used to similar tools in DSPs and I've been playing with the Datasat for a month now).

More info as I make more tweaks.

Dan

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post #115 of 1419 Old 11-29-2011, 07:55 AM
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Dan (or Curt) ....

Why are you taking measurements at multiple locations? ...

Is the Trinnov correction process one where you take measurements at multiple locations and it then tries to "optimize" across those (similar to Adyssey or Harmon), or,

Are you taking measurements and generating presets at multiple locations as part of your investigatory process (to see how well a single location correction works at other locations)?

Thanks
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post #116 of 1419 Old 11-29-2011, 08:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Bruce, the TEQ looks at the loudspeakers, the room, and their interaction with each other; in order to get an accurate picture of what's happening in the room, you need to "see" the room apart from the speakers- that's where the different locations come from.

Similar to the other systems you mentioned, Trinnov has the ability to optimize the response to whatever location I tell it- but I must tell it about that location and measure from there as well. I am looking at various locations somewhat independent from each other, admittedly, I'm just getting started with this since I've only logged about 3 hours worth of practical work on the device (actually measuring and manipulating the results).

So if I can measure at each of the seats in the theater, weight the "prime" seats higher than the "cheap seats" and then take a few measurements outside the seating area- it tells the Trinnov more about what is going on in the room, and that helps the amplitude direct measurments (since the device ignores room modes in that parameter). Whether you're doing this completely manually, or in a semi-automated process like this one- you always take multiple measurements from multiple locations; otherwise you're only looking at one specific spot in the room.

In small-room acoustics (what we're dealing with in any Home Theater), inches make a difference because you're talking quarter-wavelengths in that range and that can make 3-6 db difference in response. Seat to seat variations are on the order of 2-4 db on average, and there's really no getting around that.

Dan

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post #117 of 1419 Old 11-29-2011, 08:53 AM
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Hi Dan,

I didn't understand what the issues are with the subs. Is the Trinnov well equipped to do a lot of filters, etc? My B-Deaps require a lot of EQ to do what they do. I'm sure the Trinnov can handle things better than my QSCS, but wanted to find out what other advantages the TEQ may have over the QSC for subs.

Nice work!

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There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #118 of 1419 Old 11-29-2011, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Jeff, at the moment I am unqualified to answer your question re: your subs. Let me get mine nailed down, then I'll have more working knowledge.

Objectively, the TEQ can place as many filters as necessary (your determination) in any passband- whether it will work or not (having 30 filters from 30-50 hz isn't going to do squat) is another story.

At the moment I'll not relate this device to any system other than my demo system- until I have it basically mastered. So please be patient with me, I need to speak to Yoda some more.

Dan

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post #119 of 1419 Old 11-29-2011, 05:23 PM
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Thanks for the blow-by-blow, Dan, sounds very promising.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

When you bypass the TEQ you immediately notice how muddy everything becomes, the soundfield collapses, and you're left with mush. I heard very similar results to what was done by Dirac to the temporary monitors; the upper end was made much cleaner, larger sense of space, greater detail and intelligibility across the board.

Was the mush the sound you were getting from your previous presumably well set up system, or temporary monitors you're using for testing?

Noah
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post #120 of 1419 Old 11-29-2011, 07:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Noah, in order to utilize the TEQ as well as possible, it is necessary to "zero-out" the Rhapsody so that it essentially just passes the signal through itself to the TEQ. By doing that; I removed all of the Parametric eq work that I had done before, THAT is where the mush came from. Bypassing the TEQ at this point gives you the speakers and room without any correction whatsoever.

The temporary speakers were for my "getting to know you" with the Datasat, I pulled that down for the Thanksgiving weekend.

I did get my bass back; it took a little gain to the subs...at this point I'm down to the intricacies of the Trinnov and just knowing where to find the tools I want to do what I need. The more time I spend with this, the more dialed the sound gets! From about 200hz up, it was great right away- now I did measure from 7 points in the room, and that helps a ton, but the standard SMPTE target curve works very well in that range.

Anyway, It's been pretty cool for both Curt and Richard to be able to VNC into the TEQ and see what I've done as time has gone by. And we're only 23 hours from when I had something to listen to.

More as time passes, folks.

Dan

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