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post #1 of 42 Old 11-28-2011, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Guys,

There have been lots of great threads on here of some great projects - in particular by my good friend Cineramax!

Over here in the UK things have always been a bit more reserved but since we just opened the best AV demonstration facilities in Europe I wanted to share some details with you all.

First just a teaser of two of our rooms!

Update**************** Video now available:



Wall of Wisdom



Batman patrols the PRO Audio Technology Cinema



for the impatient there is more on facebook at GTUKNeil but I'll add more details here. The space started out as an open plan office before we built the fully isolated shells that house this lot.

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post #2 of 42 Old 11-28-2011, 08:32 AM
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Very reserved, like it. Though I like Arnold Chase's TK palace aswell.
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post #3 of 42 Old 12-03-2011, 05:14 AM
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Taking advantage of the columnar speakers narrow vertical dispersion with the lovely wenge floors. I hear from one of the vendors that your dealers can actually use the facilities to bring their clients. What I found interesting is that you charge a fee to help defray the maintenance of the facilities. Sounds like a very prudent British original keeping the ship in tip top shape and all. Candidly I musty confess that I saw the makings of a Monty Python free mason skit in there somewhere (how would it start? Neil I didn't know you were a fellow .... Yes governor, playback of Battle for Pandora in room B? But of of course , that ill be 16 shillings; per attendee...) That was a silly idea of me, not to mention that I value maintaining air pressure in my tires. Just kidding with my brits...carry on, I spun my wheels all along whilst ignoring what was staring me in the face: THIS IS the archetypal SCOTISH (wich your accent clearly gives away) joke. HA HA! Don't forget to turn those projector lamps off in between showings. We would hate to see a rate hike 3 weeks into inauguration.

Looks great , lots of luck. I have scheduled trips to the UK next year so will come and give you more of a hard time.
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post #4 of 42 Old 12-03-2011, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Peter,

Thanks for the feedback. The Wisdom room will certainly be a head scratcher for the two channel traditionalist with the L150 tucked as tight in the corner as we can possibly make it!

I just wanted to make it clear that our mutual friend is telling you porkies about charges to our dealers to use our facilities! It is a fact that in the UK a far fewer percentage of high end installers have any type of demonstration facilities never mind to the type of standard we have created. We hope that "if we build it, they will come"

I'll be uploading some of the construction shots so that people can see what's happening. Some rack shots but not full exposure just yet

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post #5 of 42 Old 12-04-2011, 02:53 AM - Thread Starter
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So I thought I would put up some images of the construction of the rooms and how we ended up with the systems we have.

One of the biggest challenges we had was finding a suitable venue close to London but with good parking and willing to let us build these spaces. It is not every facility that trusts you when you say that want to but a cinema capable of 115dB in to their space - but it wont affect the other businesses in the building!

We finally settled on a beautiful location in Bracknell which is about 30 mins from Heathrow airport and easy to reach from most parts of the UK.

When we started the place was just a single huge open plan office


To convert an open plan office in to a fully soundproofed beast of an experience centre takes a lot of materials. We used over 12 metric tons of plasterboard alone!


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post #6 of 42 Old 12-04-2011, 03:03 AM - Thread Starter
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The rooms are constructed as double stud rooms within a room. Construction is:

Double layer 15mm board plus Green Glue -> 80mm metal stud -> Rockwool -> 50mm airgap and then repeat...

The whole thing sits on top of the original carpet plus a special isolation layer of a neoprene like material. Despite what it might look like in some of the photos in the thread, excluding ceiling hangers, there is no point where the rooms touch the original structure. Everything is isolated.

12 gallons of green glue (about 50 litres) were used. Thats a lot...



Outer walls going up and rockwool going in. Note the size and depth of the slabs.


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post #7 of 42 Old 12-04-2011, 02:00 PM
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Well it is either just over 45 liter or around 54,5 liter;-).

12 million grams of plasterboard, impressive.
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post #8 of 42 Old 12-04-2011, 05:30 PM
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My apologies for the Roasting. Hehe.

Looks like a lot of work, a much needed injection to the indutry in the uk. You will do well.
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post #9 of 42 Old 12-05-2011, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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At this stage of the build, the progress was remarkable. Just 7 days after starting the project the ceilings were in and the surround speakers were being installed in the cinema.

The cinema is running a fully active speaker system from PRO Audio Technology. For surrounds we have their SCRS-26im speakers installed in wall and driven by the DPA-202 amplifiers.






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post #10 of 42 Old 12-05-2011, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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The ceilings were a real challenge since we needed to suspend them from the ceiling to support the weight of all of the materials whilst still isolating from the existing structure. In addition we had the complication of the existing hung ceiling to work around.

On top of this we needed to make sure that the ceiling would be strong enough to support the weight of the Digital Projection Titan 3D projector and hush box.




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post #11 of 42 Old 12-05-2011, 06:44 PM
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Why was the Green Glue spread with a piece of metal stud track? Spreading it like that will mean that there are some areas that do not have good contact.

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post #12 of 42 Old 12-06-2011, 12:48 AM - Thread Starter
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HI Mike,

The single applicator that was supplied to us was totally unsuitable for the task in hand so we experimented and found that layering it with the section of metal stud gave the best and fastest result. You will note that we were able to build most of the walls flat and then lift them in to place later.

There are no dead spots or weak points in the isolation shell and the cores that we removed (for sockets etc) were all solidly attached to each other.

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post #13 of 42 Old 12-10-2011, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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You don't have as many speakers as we do without needing a wire or two...

All speaker cable and interconnects and mains leads are from Straightwire. Reason for this is easy - Wisdom use Straightwire on the internals of their speakers.


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post #14 of 42 Old 12-10-2011, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
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With the rooms prorgressing so fast it was vital not to miss any of the small details that would affect the performance of our isolation.

The image below shows the doorframe details. You are looking at the side of the door here - you get some idea on how think the walls actually are!

One of the most common mistakes that people make when attempting to isolate a room is to forget the flanking paths - in particular around the door framing. Any normal contractor installs the door frames square by using packers to ensure that everything is square. This often leaves some pretty big gaps but these are all of course all hidden behind the mill work.

In our case we took great care to minimise the gaps but then everything was treated with acoustic foam (the blue stuff) which is amazingly dense and rubbery for something just squirts out of a bottle! We have no air gaps in our frames.




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post #15 of 42 Old 12-17-2011, 04:41 PM
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Awesome undertaking. It really is nice to see this considering the state of the economy pretty much everywhere, as well as the state of the a/v industry. I live in the largest city in the country (Toronto, Canada) and it's not easy to get a great, memorable demo at any of the remaining dealers. Best of luck to you, and I hope the significant investment here pays off!

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post #16 of 42 Old 12-18-2011, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes over here in the UK in particular there are almost no high end AV demo rooms. There are very few high end AV projects outside of the CI market and even the best CIs dont tend to have demo space.

We have done what we wanted and as a result we hope our dealers will benefit with their clients.

What we have done so far is going down very and performance is excellent, but I am still looking forward to spending 3-4 days working on the calibration of the audio!

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post #17 of 42 Old 12-18-2011, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
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One of the most important but horrible jobs was to ensure that the seams around the plasterboard were properly sealed. Everything was filled with acoustic caulking which was allowed to cure before the normal taping and jointing could proceed.

Once the joints are sealed you have to sand it all back to give a smooth finish ready for paint and I can tell you that the amount of plaster dust that accumulates is just amazing. I was there several days after this and still went back to the hotel with it filling every opening


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post #18 of 42 Old 12-18-2011, 01:51 PM
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what kind of software/hardware is providing him with that selection of movies to choose from? does it store the blurays on a hard drive or is it using the discs still? hope someone can answer me.
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post #19 of 42 Old 12-18-2011, 02:03 PM - Thread Starter
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The Wisdom Audio Sage S90I http://wisdomaudio.com/products_s90i.php is one of the cleverest sub designs around but the size of the cabinet calls for some integration skills - especially when you dont have space in the walls for the rest of the speakers and the subs!

We decided that the S90 subs should be installed in our internal plasterboard shell which then allowed us to build yet another wall to hold the speakers and totally hide the subs. We had to come up with a solution to get the sub porting in to the room but I'll cover that later...


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post #20 of 42 Old 12-18-2011, 02:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatallysilent View Post

what kind of software/hardware is providing him with that selection of movies to choose from? does it store the blurays on a hard drive or is it using the discs still? hope someone can answer me.

We have Kaleidescape in both rooms. The discs are running from hard drives in the server but you need a disc vault that holds the physical Blu-ray to prove ownership.

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post #21 of 42 Old 12-18-2011, 02:28 PM
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OK, watched the vid; Neil - Scottish lad are ye? certainly from somewhere up North.

What number is that RS20i? you sneaky devil!

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post #22 of 42 Old 12-18-2011, 02:43 PM - Thread Starter
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The next job was the stage for the cinema. People always underestimate the height you actually need to do staged seating and have the screen at a comfortable viewing height. In almost all cases that means a stage 40cm tall and our room was no exception!

The stage is made of 6x2 timber and totally filled with rockwool. It is all covered in two layers of ply and is extremely solid and inert. One of the best things we were able to do was build the two rear subs in to the structure saving massively on the depth of wall we would have needed otherwise.


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post #23 of 42 Old 12-18-2011, 03:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

OK, watched the vid; Neil - Scottish lad are ye? certainly from somewhere up North.

What number is that RS20i? you sneaky devil!

Dan

Hi Dan

Yes I stay just outside Edinburgh which gives me roughly a 450 mile commute to the office... each way! It is no accident I fly so much.

I don't know the serial number but it will be quite early and remember that DataSat are only about 10mins from our place. I am still not sure how I feel about the RS20i. I am a died in the wool ADA man of course but we had a hell of a lot of success with the Dolby Lake a few years back and we seem to be getting similar reaction from our dealers and their clients to this piece.

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post #24 of 42 Old 12-19-2011, 03:40 AM
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I was fortunate enough to visit Neil and Graham at their demonstration facility last week and it is amazing what they managed to achieve in such a short space of time.

The Wisdom room was quite a different experience for me as I have never heard line array or line source speakers and they are definitely something I would like to spend more time listening to. They are continually tweaking as the speakers slowly run in (the conventional drivers have very stiff surrounds apparently) so maybe another visit is in order if I can face the M25 again, I think we spent over 7 hours on the road in the end instead of the 4 it should have taken, never mind.

The Pro Audio Cinema room was simply amazing though, and given the 'cinema' credentials of the room I was pleasantly surprised by the musical reproduction, vocals were simply stunning. The room was probably the best I have been in in terms of the acoustics, it wasn't over-damped and just felt very natural whilst talking and I think this attention to detail helped get the most from the hardware.

The bass was proper chest thumping stuff where it needed to be but very taught and precise, it was a tad hot but I think both rooms are being adjusted as the speakers loosen up but it suited my tastes perfectly.

The projector was a proper light cannon and definitely the best projected picture I have had the pleasure of viewing, even the 3D was bright in comparison and I could have sat their all day (in those great chairs).

I just wanted to thank Neil and Graham for being such great hosts and talking us through the various systems and hardware and happily sharing their knowledge and expertise to an inquisitive audience.

I had a great time and needless to say I have started buying lottery tickets again

Adam
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post #25 of 42 Old 12-26-2011, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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We knew that we wanted to try and squeeze in the maximum number of models from the Wisdom Audio range in to our reference listening room.

Ever since the Sage Series launched I have always liked the following image and it become something of a template for us as we formulated our plans for the room.



One of the biggest challenges is that the Sage series really, really energise the wall and we planned on putting every model in there. We knew that minimising the number of cuts would be vital and so the guys made all of the cut outs from a single sheet of ply. That ply is fixed to battens in between every speaker and by the time we put the uni grip frames in you couldn't move the wall even applying your full weight to it



The Wisdom line do benefit from some pretty detailed setup work but the performance (even from are still very roughly calibrated units as I write this) is already incredibly compelling.

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post #26 of 42 Old 12-26-2011, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Here you can see the finished wall before the speakers were installed. It is worth noting the sub outlets in the bottom corners. It is hard to think how we could have achieved a more discrete sub woofer install in this room!


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post #27 of 42 Old 03-29-2012, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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After a short interlude I wanted to get back to this thread after what seems like the busiest few months I can remember!

I you look back you will see the last post has the wall of Wisdom with some nice holes ready to take some speakers. This great image shows the room fast forwarded a little with the floors laid, walls painted and wall mounts installed.

The frames are aluminium and clamp their entire length which actually helps to stiffen the wall. So many of them made this a challenge though!

The reason that the speakers are all lit is that they are installed behind AT fabric and the lights track which models are playing. Nice little bit of theatre during a dem!


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post #28 of 42 Old 03-29-2012, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Jumping a little ahead again, here is the wall with the speakers installed and the DNP Supernova Flex in place.

For me the Flex is the king of retractable screens but it of course comes at a price. The eagle eyed will also notice that it is set quite high on the wall to allow perfect placement of the C20 and C38 centre channel speakers. Just about acceptable in a media room but for me AT screens are a requirement for high performance cinema and DNP dont have such a model yet.


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post #29 of 42 Old 03-29-2012, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
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This is the rack with the Wisdom Electronics just starting to go in.

We have two SC-1 processors with Audyssey room correction and 7.3 in 14.3 out!

We also have multiple SA-x series amps which are 500W per channel - we have about 16kW in this configuration :smashin:


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post #30 of 42 Old 03-29-2012, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Elsewhere in the building a cinema is taking shape...


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