Kaleidescape 3U Server Price - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 160 Old 12-30-2011, 07:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Just received a quotation from a very reputable installer in my area (NJ) and want to know if it seems like a fair deal.

K-scape 3U server with eight 2TB drives for $20K.

Should I go with this or do they have room to negotiate?
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post #2 of 160 Old 12-30-2011, 07:55 PM
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Kaleidescape has more value built-in to their devices than I've seen from any manufacturer save for Runco (from days past). The drives are hand-picked for reliability, they are not off the shelf drives. The behind-the-scenes support from this company is unreal- the dealer sees the operational temps of your server and drives, and knows when there's an issue impending (usually drive temps spike before a problem). Your dealer will see when you're running out of hard drive space to let you know to expand, etc.

You're receiving a discount at the price you quoted, and honestly, Kaleidescape is one of those rare companies where MSRP is worth it. There are many imitators to this system, but none can match the support and thoroughness of Kaleidescape.

Just because computers have become commoditized, doesn't mean that all are a commodity; apple for instance- high price, high service, high performance expectations. People purchase apple products paying 2-3x what they would for a PC, and in doing so expect more (or in this case, less- problems). Kaleidescape is the same way: pull it out of the box, populate the drives, migrate the content from the other server, and boom! working...period.

Disclosure: I too, sell Kaleidescape- which is why I know the dealer is giving you a discount, and why I can see things from their perspective as well. Kaleidescape products are worth every penny, i wish they had a starting place for blu-ray that was fewer pennies than they currently are, but never the less worth it.

I hope this helps.

Dan

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post #3 of 160 Old 12-30-2011, 08:58 PM
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I am about to 'can' my Crestron ADMS which has been a nightmare...
The biggest gripe I have with the ADMS is that it does not play all the Audio formats such as the True HD 7.1 and my Theta CB3HD does not show the correct audio output which it is playing. The video of the ADMS is also not of videophile quality so I end up using my Oppo 95 instead.
With that said - how is the Kaleidoscope system with regards to video quality and audio formats... this is very important to me if I have to consider the Kaleidoscope..
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post #4 of 160 Old 12-30-2011, 09:17 PM
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Rock solid, Ash. It passes whatever formats you tell it to, I've verified this. The video quality is as good as the Oppo BDP-95 we use for single discs. We run an M700 into the Radiance and use the Radiance for switching - because I've been swapping stuff around lately.

For your system, I would highly recommend it! It's been the most satisfying addition to the theater, by far. Was Dennis your dealer? Or did you source your own electronics? If it was Dennis, ask him for his feedback, don't just take my word for it.

PM me if you'd like more info.

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post #5 of 160 Old 12-31-2011, 09:06 AM
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I've personally always been surprised that not more guys hanging out in this forum have a K system. It is by far the single best piece of AV gear I've put into my system. As Dan says, rock solid, and the support from the company is the best in the industry, IMO.

I now have about 2000 movies, 700 BR, 1400 CD's, accessible with a couple of button clicks, and the video quality is as good as any other video piece I've ever had in my system, including the Denon and Sony ES BR players. Really wouldn't be without it.


Jim

Disclosure: Although one of my companies sells and installs Kaleidescape, and I'm involved in the Owner's Forum, I owned K before I brought the line into the AV business.
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post #6 of 160 Old 12-31-2011, 10:45 AM
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Thanks Dan .... Will PM if I have questions.
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post #7 of 160 Old 01-01-2012, 05:48 AM
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Components Description MSRP
KSERVER-5000-0600 Kaleidescape 3U Server (Capacity 600 Blu-ray Discs or 3600 DVDs; includes 14 disk cartridges, all slots full) $ (USD) 26,995
KSERVER-5000-0300 Kaleidescape 3U Server (Capacity 300 Blu-ray Discs or 1800 DVDs; includes 8 disk cartridges, 6 slots for expansion) 20,995
KSERVER-1500-0150 Kaleidescape 1U Server (Capacity 150 Blu-ray Discs or 900 DVDs; includes 4 disk cartridges, all slots full) 9,995
KCINEMA-1-HC Kaleidescape Cinema One (Capacity 450 DVDs; includes Kaleidescape and Child Remotes) 5,995
KVAULT-M700-A Kaleidescape M700 Disc Vault - Region A (Disc vault with 320 slots and integrated M-Class player) 5,995
KVAULT-M700-B Kaleidescape M700 Disc Vault - Region B (Disc vault with 320 slots and integrated M-Class player) 5,995
KVAULT-M700-C Kaleidescape M700 Disc Vault - Region C (Disc vault with 320 slots and integrated M-Class player) 5,995
KPLAYER-M500-A Kaleidescape M500 Player - Region A 4,495
KPLAYER-M500-B Kaleidescape M500 Player - Region B 4,495
KPLAYER-M500-C Kaleidescape M500 Player - Region C 4,495
KPLAYER-M300-A Kaleidescape M300 Player - Region A 2,995
KPLAYER-M300-B Kaleidescape M300 Player - Region B 2,995
KPLAYER-M300-C Kaleidescape M300 Player - Region C 2,995
KPLAYER-6000 Kaleidescape 1080p Player 1,995
KMUSIC-4000 Kaleidescape Music Player 3,495
KSPEEDREADER-2 Kaleidescape Speed Reader 4,495
KDISK-2000-L-S Kaleidescape 2 TB Disk Cartridge (Add-on for 1U or 3U Server; capacity 50 Blu-ray Discs or 300 DVDs) 995
KDISK-1000-M-S Kaleidescape 1 TB Disk Cartridge (Add-on for Cinema One; capacity 150 DVDs) 695
KDISK-500-M-S Kaleidescape 500 GB Disk Cartridge (Add-on for Cinema One; capacity 75 DVDs) 495
KDISK-750 Kaleidescape 750 GB Disk Cartridge (Add-on for 5U Server; capacity 18 Blu-ray Discs or 110 DVDs) 995
KFILESYSTEM-3U Kaleidescape KEAOS File System for 3U Server (Requires 3 disk cartridges, 14 max) As quoted
KFILESYSTEM-1U Kaleidescape KEAOS File System for 1U Server (Requires 2 disk cartridges, 4 max) As quoted
KFILESYSTEM-C1 Kaleidescape KEAOS File System for Cinema One (Requires 2 disk cartridges, 4 max) As quoted
KFILESYSTEM-5U Kaleidescape KEAOS File System for 5U Server (Requires 2 disk cartridges, 12 max) As quoted
Extended Limited Warranties Description MSRP
KWARR-EXT-SERVER-LG Kaleidescape 1-Year Limited Warranty Extension for 3U or 5U Server $ (USD) 900
KWARR-EXT-SERVER-SM Kaleidescape 1-Year Limited Warranty Extension for 1U Server or Cinema One chassis 450
KWARR-EXT-VAULT-IDV Kaleidescape 1-Year Limited Warranty Extension for M700 Disc Vault 750
KWARR-EXT-CINEMA-1 Kaleidescape 1-Year Limited Warranty Extension for Cinema One and disks 750
KWARR-EXT-PLAYER Kaleidescape 1-Year Limited Warranty Extension for Player 225
KWARR-EXT-DISK Kaleidescape 1-Year Limited Warranty Extension for Disk Cartridge 75
Movie Collections Description MSRP
KCOLL-1600-B The Best of Blu-ray (Blu-ray) $ (USD) 1,045
KCOLL-0800 Kaleidescape's Critics 150 (DVD) 3,195
KCOLL-1300 The New York Times Best DVDs (DVD) 4,395
KCOLL-1800-B Great Concerts (Blu-ray) 645
KCOLL-1800 Great Concerts (DVD) 545
KCOLL-1100-B Family Collection (Blu-ray) 1,245
KCOLL-1100 Family Collection (DVD) 1,695
KCOLL-1700-B Disney Collection (Blu-ray) 1,795
KCOLL-1700 Disney Collection (DVD) 1,645
KCOLL-1000 Preschool Collection (DVD) 845
KCOLL-0500-B Academy Award Winners - Best Picture (Blu-ray) 1,095
KCOLL-0500 Academy Award Winners - Best Picture (DVD) 1,445
KCOLL-0600-B Academy Award Nominees - Best Picture (Blu-ray) 3,345
KCOLL-0600 Academy Award Nominees - Best Picture (DVD) 4,995
KCOLL-0300 The Criterion Collection Catalog (DVD) 7,495
KCOLL-1400 Sports Collection (DVD) 1,345
KCOLL-1500 The Essential Collection (DVD and CD) 2,545
Other Description MSRP
KREMOTE-20 Kaleidescape Remote (Backlit IR remote control for M-Class players) $ (USD) 39
KREMOTE-20-10PK Kaleidescape Remote (Backlit IR remote control for M-Class players) - 10-pack 350
KREMOTE-10 Kaleidescape Remote (Backlit IR remote control) 39
KREMOTE-10-10PK Kaleidescape Remote (Backlit IR remote control) - 10-pack 350
KREMOTE-30 Kaleidescape Child Remote 39
KREMOTE-30-10PK Kaleidescape Child Remote - 10-pack 350
KSHELF-300 Kaleidescape Mini Player Rack-Mount Shelf (1U, holds 2 players) 185
KUPGR-MOVIES-UNL Kaleidescape Unlimited Movie Streams Playback License 5,000
KUPGR-MOVIES-ADD Kaleidescape Movie Playback and Guide Service Upgrade 2,745
KUPGR-MUSIC-ADD Kaleidescape Music Playback and Guide Service Upgrade 2,745
SVC-KIT-0010 Service Kit: KPLAYER-2500 Power Supply and Fan 50
SVC-KIT-0020 Service Kit: KSERVER-1500 Power Supply 50
SVC-KIT-0030 Service Kit: KPLAYER-5000/KMUSIC-4000 Power Supply and Fan 50
SVC-KIT-0040 Service Kit: KPLAYER-6000 Power Supply 50
Remanufactured Components Description MSRP
KPLAYER-5000-Q Kaleidescape Movie Player 2 with Kaleidescape Remote (Remanufactured) $ (USD) 995
Out-Of-Warranty Replacements* Description MSRP
KSERVER-5000-R Kaleidescape 3U Server (Replacement) $ (USD) 3,000
KSERVER-1500-R Kaleidescape 1U Server (Replacement) 2,000
KSERVER-2500-R Kaleidescape 5U Server (Replacement) 3,000
KSERVER-2000-E-R Kaleidescape 5U Server (Replacement) 3,000
KSERVER-2000-R Kaleidescape 5U Server (Replacement) 3,000
KSYSTEM-120-R Kaleidescape Cinema One chassis (Replacement) 2,000
KVAULT-M700-A-R Kaleidescape M700 Disc Vault - Region A (Replacement) 2,500
KVAULT-M700-B-R Kaleidescape M700 Disc Vault - Region B (Replacement) 2,500
KVAULT-M700-C-R Kaleidescape M700 Disc Vault - Region C (Replacement) 2,500
KVAULT-10-R Kaleidescape Modular Disc Vault (Replacement) 900
KPLAYER-M500-A-R Kaleidescape M500 Player - Region A (Replacement) 2,000
KPLAYER-M500-B-R Kaleidescape M500 Player - Region B (Replacement) 2,000
KPLAYER-M500-C-R Kaleidescape M500 Player - Region C (Replacement) 2,000
KPLAYER-M300-A-R Kaleidescape M300 Player - Region A (Replacement) 1,400
KPLAYER-M300-B-R Kaleidescape M300 Player - Region B (Replacement) 1,400
KPLAYER-M300-C-R Kaleidescape M300 Player - Region C (Replacement) 1,400
KPLAYER-6000-R Kaleidescape 1080p Player (Replacement) 1,000
KPLAYER-300-R Kaleidescape 1080p Mini Player (Replacement) 900
KPLAYER-5000-R Kaleidescape Movie Player 2 (Replacement) 1,000
KPLAYER-2500-R Kaleidescape Player (Replacement) 1,000
KPLAYER-2000-E-R Kaleidescape Player (Replacement) 1,000
KPLAYER-2000-R Kaleidescape Player (Replacement) 1,000
KMUSIC-4000-R Kaleidescape Music Player (Replacement) 1,000
KREADER-2000-E-R Kaleidescape Reader (Replacement) 1,000
KREADER-2000-R Kaleidescape Reader (Replacement) 1,000
KDISK-2000-L-R Kaleidescape 2 TB Disk Cartridge (Replacement) 250
KDISK-1000-L-R Kaleidescape 1 TB Disk Cartridge (Replacement) 250
KDISK-750-L-R Kaleidescape 750 GB Disk Cartridge (Replacement) 250
KDISK-250-L-R Kaleidescape 250 GB Disk Cartridge (Replacement) 250
KDISK-1000-M-R Kaleidescape 1 TB Disk Cartridge (Replacement; Cinema One only) 250
KDISK-500-M-R Kaleidescape 500 GB Disk Cartridge (Replacement; Cinema One only) 250
KDISK-750-R Kaleidescape 750 GB Disk Cartridge (Replacement; 5U Server only) 250
KDISK-500-R Kaleidescape 500 GB Disk Cartridge (Replacement; 5U Server only) 250
KDISK-400-R Kaleidescape 400 GB Disk Cartridge (Replacement; 5U Server only) 250
KDISK-300-R Kaleidescape 300 GB Disk Cartridge (Replacement; 5U Server only) 250
KDISK-250-R Kaleidescape 250 GB Disk Cartridge (Replacement; 5U Server only) 250
KSPEEDREADER-2-R Kaleidescape Speed Reader (Replacement) 1,250
KSPEEDREADER-R Kaleidescape Speed Reader (Replacement) 1,250
Out-Of-Warranty Minor Repair Fees* Description MSRP
KREPAIR-PLAYER Minor Repair Fee for player or reader (RMA required for purchase) $ (USD) 450
KREPAIR-SERVER Minor Repair Fee for server or Cinema One (RMA required for purchase) 600
Exchange Deposits* Description MSRP
EXCHDEP-SERVER-LG Kaleidescape Exchange Program Deposit for 3U or 5U Server $ (USD) 5,000
EXCHDEP-SERVER-SM Kaleidescape Exchange Program Deposit for 1U Server 2,500
EXCHDEP-CINEMA-1 Kaleidescape Exchange Program Deposit for Cinema One 2,000
EXCHDEP-VAULT-IDV Kaleidescape Exchange Program Deposit for M700 Disc Vault 3,000
EXCHDEP-VAULT-MDV Kaleidescape Exchange Program Deposit for Modular Disc Vault 750
EXCHDEP-PLAYER Kaleidescape Exchange Program Deposit for Player 1,000
EXCHDEP-PLAYER-MINI Kaleidescape Exchange Program Deposit for Mini Player 750
EXCHDEP-DISK Kaleidescape Exchange Program Deposit for Disk Cartridge 350
EXCHDEP-SPEEDREADER Kaleidescape Exchange Program Deposit for Speed Reader 3,500
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post #8 of 160 Old 01-02-2012, 11:30 AM
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Great product , but I built my own Windows Media Server..... CINERAMAX check your PM
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post #9 of 160 Old 01-03-2012, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

Kaleidescape has more value built-in to their devices than I've seen from any manufacturer save for Runco (from days past). The drives are hand-picked for reliability, they are not off the shelf drives. The behind-the-scenes support from this company is unreal- the dealer sees the operational temps of your server and drives, and knows when there's an issue impending (usually drive temps spike before a problem). Your dealer will see when you're running out of hard drive space to let you know to expand, etc.


Dan

It was also constant drive scrubbing to monitor for read/write errors in advance to start predicting failures and to also monitor the batches to see possible issues well in advance.

people forget that the core team also built NetAPP. so the pedigree is not CE stuff but 6 sigma enterprise reliability.

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post #10 of 160 Old 01-03-2012, 04:45 PM
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Hand-picked harddrives ...Really ? from which manufacture WD, Seagate of Toshiba.....
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post #11 of 160 Old 01-03-2012, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taker View Post

Hand-picked harddrives ...Really ?

Don't know about hand picking drives but they do put them through extensive qualifications which rejects many drives you and I would buy through retail. As mentioned, the process they go through is as if they are building enterprise class equipment.

Quote:


from which manufacture WD, Seagate of Toshiba.....

I will rule out Toshiba but beyond that, you have to guess as I don't know if they keep that confidential or not. .

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post #12 of 160 Old 01-03-2012, 06:48 PM
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Oh they are clearly marked WD them 2 t's.

There is an announcement tonight about new higher capacity drives to become available.
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post #13 of 160 Old 01-03-2012, 07:44 PM
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Ours are Seagates.

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post #14 of 160 Old 01-03-2012, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Don't know about hand picking drives but they do put them through extensive qualifications which rejects many drives you and I would buy through retail. As mentioned, the process they go through is as if they are building enterprise class equipment.


I will rule out Toshiba but beyond that, you have to guess as I don't know if they keep that confidential or not. .

That is not uncommon these days. I have built unraid server /NAS ( my third one in last 5 years ) and the current one with seven 3 TB drives. You can run a shell preclear script when you install the drives and you can choose to run it for 1 to several hundred cycles for dayss continously before you assign the drive in array , depending on how paranoid you want to be about drive failure . It will give you the reliabilty confidence and all the drives with SMART feature are monitored and will give you reliability warning. The pro license for unraid is $129. I am not denying the value of K server . They have developed a reliable product and are entitled to determine the value of their IP and hard work. Just stating the facts that those features are not unique in my opinion.

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post #15 of 160 Old 01-03-2012, 07:57 PM
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Harddrive are all the same hand picked or retail ..I have purchased drive that were enterprise class and they failed and the vendor comes out and replaces them ..I have drives that I go and get from local copmputer store and they do the same at the same rate the mean time between failure is just best guess ...
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post #16 of 160 Old 01-03-2012, 07:58 PM
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There are several great features to K. The scene creator with scripting is justy incredible the most fun you can have for 3hrs without seating through an entire movie. Just a barrage of incredible demo clips one after the other. Try this with D-Box and holly sh!t (they are showing this at CES which is already fully operational with 600 BD movies at SKOLL)of course why stop there hook it up to the teranex and now you have a 4D ride that will readily enamour the most staunchest 3D detractors.

There is the new (where is it?) cinemascape 2.35 aspect ratio user interface which has anamorphic stretch or 860 by 1920 for the zoomers. Take a look at the new Ipad app (where is it again?) there is already another Ipad app on the market that allows you to scoot by covers.

The auto masking function works like a freaking samurai commanding in lighting fast fashion the masking panels to the correct aspect ratio. Did I say the picture quality is top notch?
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post #17 of 160 Old 01-03-2012, 08:00 PM
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Like I said Kalidescape is a great product, I just don't like having to pay 7x for a 2TB harddrive ..dose it playback 3D movies
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post #18 of 160 Old 01-03-2012, 08:10 PM
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Part of the beta for Cinemascape and iPad app as well, Peter? Tom just informed me of the latest changes in KEAOS, if you're zooming try the native 2.35 settings; you'll get full res 1.78:1 films as well as the full 2.35 extended OSD with all the info for list view.

How do you like the App?

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post #19 of 160 Old 01-03-2012, 08:24 PM
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post #20 of 160 Old 01-03-2012, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Poindexter View Post

Peter, where did you hear that there would be an update tonight on larger hard drive sizes?

They are already listed on the site: http://www.kaleidescape.com/products/servers/3U/
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post #21 of 160 Old 01-03-2012, 09:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Is there a big price delta between the 3TB and the 2TB drives?

If I am going to purchase this unit I might as well go with the 3TB.
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post #22 of 160 Old 01-03-2012, 10:10 PM
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5,500 more for 14 3 TB drives vs 14 2 TB drives

3,000 more for 8 3TB drives vs 8 2TB drives

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post #23 of 160 Old 01-03-2012, 10:30 PM
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Dan, I think you left out the Thailand Flood Surcharge being placed on hard drives, which adds $100 difference per disc.

From their email to dealers:
*Thailand Flood Surcharge
As you have likely seen in the news, the 2011 Thailand flooding has severely affected the supply and cost of 3.5" hard disk drives. Kate Solomon from TechRadar reports that demand outstripped supply by 70 million hard drives in Q4 2011 and estimates that it may take many months to restore normal production. Lucas Mearian of ComputerWorld reports that prices have risen by as much as 100%. Kaleidescape has thus far absorbed the increased costs, but the problem may continue well into 2012. Rather than changing the MSRP, we are instituting a temporary surcharge on each new disk cartridge sold for use in 1U and 3U Servers, whether included in a server, add-on storage, or part of a disk cartridge or server trade-up. This surcharge reflects the increase in our costs, and you may pass this surcharge through to your customers.

The surcharge sucks, but I completely understand it and look forward to the world hard drive shortage to come to an end as soon as possible.
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post #24 of 160 Old 01-03-2012, 11:00 PM
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for the extra 1400 it would cost on a fully-loaded 3RU server, I guess it's up to each dealer to weigh their feelings of passing that added cost along or not.

I'd love them to do something like the Cinema One K-Vault 100 combo kind of thing for around 10 grand. That's kind of the threshold of acceptability for me to move from well-heeled to more normal income brackets. To me, they family with 2-3 kids and a ton of movies benefits the most from K-scape.

Sorry for the derail.

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C'SEED Entertainment Systems GMBH
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post #25 of 160 Old 01-04-2012, 01:34 AM
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Harddrive are all the same hand picked or retail ..I have purchased drive that were enterprise class and they failed and the vendor comes out and replaces them ..I have drives that I go and get from local copmputer store and they do the same at the same rate the mean time between failure is just best guess ...

They don't just buy enterprise class drivers. They put the drives through a full qual cycle before using any of them. This is what I meant by enterprise class as in companies sourcing components and making sure they meet a high quality bar.

The failures you see is the precise reason they don't take manufacturer's word for them being of certain reliability. They will not use the drive model unless it meets a high quality bar.

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post #26 of 160 Old 01-04-2012, 06:33 AM
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Part of the beta for Cinemascape and iPad app as well, Peter? Tom just informed me of the latest changes in KEAOS, if you're zooming try the native 2.35 settings; you'll get full res 1.78:1 films as well as the full 2.35 extended OSD with all the info for list view.

How do you like the App?

dan

No Dan, I am sitting back and letting you get all the Beta arrows for once. Thanks!
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post #27 of 160 Old 01-04-2012, 07:09 AM
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Well, then have you been able to play with the actual Kaleidescape App?

You're going to like it- it works crazy fast; much faster than using a remote, scroll to the movie or cd you want and tap play.

Dan

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post #28 of 160 Old 01-04-2012, 07:12 AM
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I use the other k app which is ok but I look forward to it.
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post #29 of 160 Old 01-04-2012, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by amirm View Post

They don't just buy enterprise class drivers. They put the drives through a full qual cycle before using any of them. This is what I meant by enterprise class as in companies sourcing components and making sure they meet a high quality bar.

The failures you see is the precise reason they don't take manufacturer's word for them being of certain reliability. They will not use the drive model unless it meets a high quality bar.

The Vendors I use do the same thing they all run the drives through a rigorous procedures its still they even put there own firmware(microcode) on the drives I stand by my previous post "best guess on harddrive failures "
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post #30 of 160 Old 01-04-2012, 12:53 PM
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the constant scrubbing that K does is a big predictor of potential failures and they store all that data and mine it so they can more accurately monitor and track drives.

disclosure... i worked there and hold stock.

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