Genelec 1039a vs 1034b- looking for advice - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 01-14-2012, 10:51 AM - Thread Starter
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I am thinking of changing my theater speakers. The theater is 27'L x 20'W x 12'H. It is a dedicated room , acoustically treated. I am thinking of 1034b or 1039a for LCR's. They will be flush/baffle mounted in the front wall /behind the screen. I have owned 1037b's and love their sound . I am wondering if the above mentioned models are too much for my room. I would prefer to have more headroom and go for slight overkill than have underwhelming sound. If anyone with experience with these models can opine , I will appreciate it. I havent completely decided on the surrounds yet . I have 3 1037b's which I can use for surrounds and I can buy one more of those to have 7 channel setup.

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post #2 of 21 Old 01-14-2012, 01:13 PM
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The benefit of increased headroom plus displacement (low frequency) is definitely worth it. The 1037's are very impressive but when you get into the larger mains its a different ball game again. You wont need to turn them up to enjoy the difference either.
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post #3 of 21 Old 01-15-2012, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genelec Man View Post

The benefit of increased headroom plus displacement (low frequency) is definitely worth it. The 1037's are very impressive but when you get into the larger mains its a different ball game again. You wont need to turn them up to enjoy the difference either.

Thats what I want to know in somewhat more detail. In what areas will 1034 and 1039 best the 1037's , besides the SPL's achieved?

Thanks
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post #4 of 21 Old 01-15-2012, 07:38 PM
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In theory the 1039 should offer more impact up to 400hz due to the huge difference in speaker cone area. Now the question comes into play if you will be able to hear/feel this difference at the levels that you listen to. If you listen near reference level, I think you will feel the difference in the mid-bass. 1039's are definitely over kill, but you will not be left wondering and should keep you satisfied for many many years.

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post #5 of 21 Old 01-16-2012, 04:11 PM
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Not happy with Catalysts?
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post #6 of 21 Old 01-17-2012, 03:59 PM
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Why not use three HT312B for LCRs in conjunction with a couple of HTS4B?
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post #7 of 21 Old 01-17-2012, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post

Why not use three HT312B for LCRs in conjunction with a couple of HTS4B?

T312 is identical to pro version 1037 that I already have and I dont think I will be happy with it in that big of a room. 1037's are still considered three way near field monitors. I am looking something more powerful than that for LCR's with more headroom and SPL at seating position. I will uses 1037's for surrounds if I go Genelc route again.
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post #8 of 21 Old 01-17-2012, 04:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

Not happy with Catalysts?

Its not that I am not happy ...I am just looking for more. I have three Catalyst12's for LCR and four catalyst 8's for surrounds and if you add up the cost I belive it comes close to 21K . If ihave to build a theater again with 20K budget for amps and speakers I will go with catalysts again without a doubt. But somehow I prefer genelec sound . I have used 1037's for about 5 years. People have described that sound (genelec's) more detailed/ more fatiguing/ more revealing/ bright more forward etc as compared to Catalysts. But I seem to prefer that sound. So I am contemplating the change. I am still considering the costs and different combinations and the cost to benefit ratio etc.
I dont want to discuss one brand vs another in this thread as it almost always derails the thread. I am mostly looking for opinions on the differences between 1037's and larger main monitors from genelec

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post #9 of 21 Old 01-17-2012, 05:59 PM
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I have set up systems with 1037's as LCR's & the results were excellent. I was fortunate to have met one of the main engineer's from Genelec (Finland) at a training session & asked him the very same question (what do the larger models sound like?) He said they all pretty much have the same "sound signature" & it really comes down to listening distance & room volume. I'm sure you have seen the Genelec rec/tables (distance/room size). They are all based on the minimum solution so it's perfectly logical to upsize. I like many on forum
believe in the most clean headroom possible so it's usually budget that is the limiting factor. I know if I won the lottery I would have 1036 x 3 or Meyer EXP at the top of my list & have the room built for it. The room wouldn't be 50 ft long either but just a large "normal" theatre with more clean dynamics than God.
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post #10 of 21 Old 01-18-2012, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mani View Post

T312 is identical to pro version 1037 that I already have and I dont think I will be happy with it in that big of a room. 1037's are still considered three way near field monitors. I am looking something more powerful than that for LCR's with more headroom and SPL at seating position. I will uses 1037's for surrounds if I go Genelc route again.

The HT312s are not near field monitors. They are commonly used in 6000 cu ft acoustically treated home theaters (with two HTS4B subs) and these systems can get wicked loud. But if you want overkill, go to the system commonly used in 8000 cu ft spaces...3 x HT315B and an HTS6. Go ahead and use your 1037's in the rear. This setup would rock.
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post #11 of 21 Old 01-18-2012, 09:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post

The HT312s are not near field monitors. They are commonly used in 6000 cu ft acoustically treated home theaters (with two HTS4B subs) and these systems can get wicked loud. But if you want overkill, go to the system commonly used in 8000 cu ft spaces...3 x HT315B and an HTS6. Go ahead and use your 1037's in the rear. This setup would rock.

I know you can use 1037 (HT312) for decent sized theater - I have been using 1037's for LCR for 5 yrs in my previous non dedicated room and loved them . But fact still is that they are not recommended for listening distance in my theater even by Genelec. Here is the recommendations from Genelec.


http://www.genelec.com/learning-cent...vie-mix-rooms/

If you look at them the typical listening distance for 1037 (identical to HT312) is 7-1/2 feet - which is near to midfield. The max distance for them is 15' bt they clearly say that the ideal listening distance should be half of max distance mentioned. My first row is at 16' and second row at 21', even by Genelec's recommendations 1304 or 1039 seem to be right choice.
I am not saying that you can't use 1037's (HT312) for LCR in that size room, but after listening to them for 4-5 yrs I want more impact and headroom esp. since the listening distance in my current theater has increased.
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post #12 of 21 Old 01-19-2012, 03:34 PM
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1037 is not identical to HT312. The 1037 is for editing suites (near field) and the HT series is for Home Theater applications. You do not need to be as close to an HT as you do to the commercial iteration. And the amount of "impact" experienced will largely be determined by the subs to which the HT's are crossed over in conjunction, of course, with room acoustics.
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post #13 of 21 Old 01-19-2012, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Attachment 234698[ATTACH]Attachment 234699[/ATTACH]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post

1037 is not identical to HT312. The 1037 is for editing suites (near field) and the HT series is for Home Theater applications. You do not need to be as close to an HT as you do to the commercial iteration. And the amount of "impact" experienced will largely be determined by the subs to which the HT's are crossed over in conjunction, of course, with room acoustics.

1037c is identical to HT312 and 1038 is identical to HT315 . The only difference is that HT versions have auto on/off feature. I had confirmed that with Genelc dealer. I have attached the specs for both models. If you look through them 1037 and HT312 specs are identical to every single letter in the specs. They have same drivers/ amps/ freq response/ crossovers/ SPL and look identical.

http://www.genelec-ht.com/documents/...315.pdfSimilar

www.genelec.fi/documents/datasheets/DS1037c.pdf

I understand tha you can keep them at 15ft or 20 ft, I was just quoting ideal/typical listening distance recommended by Genelc for each model. I n myprevious home where I was using 1037's for LCR's , my family room and kirchen were in one big area and if I walked back to 18-20 feet from the speakers, the impact was nowhere close to what it was in the main listening position at about 13 feet , which is still 5-6 ft more than what's recommended by Genelec. Thats why I am leaning towards bigger models for LCR in current setup.

Mani
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post #14 of 21 Old 01-19-2012, 05:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Hopefully these pictures will be of better resolution
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post #15 of 21 Old 01-20-2012, 06:13 AM
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My recommendation for "practical" solution is to spend most $$ on speakers & within that category spend most on the LCR. I recall a system where the fronts were 1037 x 3 & the rears were HT206 & HT205. The recommended rears were actually larger & more expensive. The budget was for the most part fixed so I did not compromise the front's for having large rears. The end result was fantastic even with smaller backs.(can always upgrade later) Not theoretical ideal but worked fine.
The only difference between HT & 1000 series is the HT has an RCA line level input & defeat able LED on the front of the speaker. A classic example is the 1031 vs HT208: Same exact speaker if your listening to them. I always try & sell the pro version if only to save a bit of money.
Go with as big as you can for the fronts for best performance!
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post #16 of 21 Old 02-10-2012, 03:57 PM
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I would say go for the biggest as possible, the type of sound will be the same in every aspect on all Genelecs, the difference is the SPL, the headroom, the dinamics, ..., based on the room size, but the Genelec taste will be there on all models.
I had last week the 1036 playing at reference level with a Datasat pream in a 100sqm room and WOW ! Front row of Madonna, Sting and DJ Tiesto at incredible sound presure and no distorsion or compression or clipping. Same on movies.
Regarding the HT and PRO models they are the same.
All 3 way models can offer good performance on a mid distance, similar to a traditional 2 ch stereo speaker, I have compared them to many well know products and ussually they beat them all in dynamics at half the price.
Of course Genelec is not for all type of customers, if they listen to classical music, they will not liked it, basically because when they listen to a speaker designed for been flat 20 Hz to 20 kHz with no limitations they will feel it is agressive on the highs and vague on the bottom lows. Seat in front of a violin or a trumpet and then play the same on the Genelecs and you will understand why most recording and post production sound engineers likes Genelec, because it tells you what you are listening and doing, the reality of the music.
Audiophiles look for a particular type of sound they prefer ( colorated ), sound engineers look for the true, that is why there are a few Pro speaker brands and hundreds of Consumer brands. Pro stuff use to be EQ and used in controlled rooms, with acoustic design and treatment. Consumer models are for the living room, so the designers tunes them ( EQ ) in the croosover, and we with the cables, the electronics, the placing, ...
For the rears you can go for the 2 way models, no need for more. The Datasat gives you information about channel levels in real time and none of the disc played had the energy of the front channels, so if surround music is not the most important use, 2 way small monitors are fine, or the 1038 the smallest 3 way.
A good idea is to place power amps near the speakers with just one meter of speaker cable and run long balanced audio cables.
Better if you stack the fronts in the wall, on high and tillting down.
Good luck !!!

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post #17 of 21 Old 02-24-2012, 03:20 PM
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The larger waveguides ,increased radiating surface, and higher power enable a more accurate reproduction of shock wave transients, making drums, electric bass, gunfire, and explosions far more realistic. YES go with 1039

This threshold of transient reality, coupled with an ease of delivery begins with HT315, and gets better with each successive model. Long live headroom !

Overkill is business as usual for me, as the systems are lower in distortion, more emotional, and last a long time.

I have calibrated dozens of Genelec systems, many of them which utilize the large main monitors, including 1036. and my observations are based upon those experiences

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post #18 of 21 Old 02-25-2012, 01:28 AM
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Mani,

as you probably know a couple of months ago I was where you are now. I came from owning 3 Genelec 1037C as LCR and was looking for more... First stop: Seaton Catalyst (see Seaton forum for my rather extensive comparison to Genelec). This wasn't fully satisfying for all the reasons you mention - primarely personal preference.

After that I was thinking about going with 1034B as fronts, using the 1037C as surrounds. That would have given me the very same sound signature across the board with much better dynamics in the front (you can never have enough of that in big rooms).

So what's the end of the story: I went another way. I bought 3 Danley Sound SH-50 as fronts (Parasound JC1 amps) and use the Genelecs (4x) as surrounds. Driven by a Prism Sound Orpheus, Acourate room correction running on a HTPC setup with JRiver MC17. I am very satisfied. I still own the Seaton Catalyst which will go to my TV setup eventually - just sitting around now.

IMHO the SH-50 is very competitive with the big(gest) Genelecs in all parameters at considerably lower cost. A truly smart design.
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post #19 of 21 Old 02-28-2012, 12:53 PM
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HT315 / 1038 is suggested by Genelac for a room of 8800 cu ft (a bit bigger than your room).

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post #20 of 21 Old 03-06-2012, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLion View Post

So what's the end of the story: I went another way. I bought 3 Danley Sound SH-50 as fronts (Parasound JC1 amps) and use the Genelecs (4x) as surrounds.

IMHO the SH-50 is very competitive with the big(gest) Genelecs in all parameters at considerably lower cost. A truly smart design.

Interesting you pulled the trigger on that. I was considering the same setup vs the Genelecs. With the SH-50's high efficiency, and the JC1 high class A output, you're probably running them pure class A most of the time. I read your review on the Seatons too. I didn't consider them because I don't like the idea of the extra A/D D/A step for the DSP processing.

I drove to Georgia to hear the SH-50's, but was a little disappointed to find the Danley show room is actually their warehouse. I guess the huge space is closer to their target market than a (relatively) small residential room would be. What I heard, I liked, but there was no way I could tell what they would sound like in my room.

I looked into having Keith design my theater. I saw he uses SH-50's in his outdoor theater, but read he tends to spec Genelecs indoors. That made me a little uneasy with a blind buy. The SH-50's are a good bit cheaper than the big Genelecs, but still not cheap enough (for me) to buy, try, then sell for a loss. But if they're working well for you, I'll see if I can rent a pair from somewhere when my room gets closer to being done.

 

 

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post #21 of 21 Old 03-07-2012, 06:49 AM
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The build-design of the Danley SH-50 looks interesting.
Inside the SH-50 box is 2 x 12", 4 x 5", 1 x 1"
The PDF below has a pic of how the drivers are mounted, and numerous measurements

http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/pdf/danley_tapped.pdf

- Andy
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