OK, seriously, audiophile fuses? What say you? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 125 Old 01-23-2012, 07:33 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Curt Palme's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 18,965
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 25
http://www.revolutionpower.com/p/HiF...OW+Blow+T/352/

www.curtpalme.com - CRT tech info

www.soundsolutionscanada.com -pro audio website
Curt Palme is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 125 Old 01-23-2012, 08:03 PM
Senior Member
 
petern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 417
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I think any "audiophile" whose system isn't powered by an off-the-grid network of rare-metal batteries is a poser. You seriously intend to hook your equipment and millions of dollars of shaman-blessed interconnects to the same distributed AC power grid that - ugh! - powers things like refrigerators?
petern is online now  
post #3 of 125 Old 01-23-2012, 09:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Bigus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The South
Posts: 4,258
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 51
I find that even these limit the maximum transient speed my system can achieve, so I've replaced all of mine with gold clad solid copper slugs.

Bigus is offline  
post #4 of 125 Old 01-24-2012, 07:44 AM
Advanced Member
 
Peter Nielsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Wilmington, NC, USA
Posts: 895
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I believe this is a very popular upgrade for Magnepan speakers that actually have gold plated fuse sockets (at least the top end models do) but come with "regular" fuses. Those fuses in the link do not seem to be gold plated, but there are other brands that are...

When FUD bites, you open your wallet and buy these. After all it's a very small investment compared to the cost of the speakers...
Peter Nielsen is offline  
post #5 of 125 Old 01-24-2012, 07:51 AM
Advanced Member
 
Peter Nielsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Wilmington, NC, USA
Posts: 895
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Here's a better link to showcase the magic fuses
http://www.vhaudio.com/fuses.html#hififuses
Peter Nielsen is offline  
post #6 of 125 Old 01-24-2012, 09:04 AM
AVS Special Member
 
edorr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,469
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:

Wait until you hear aobut the directionality of fuses. In an A/C signal path no less.
edorr is offline  
post #7 of 125 Old 01-24-2012, 10:06 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
amirm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Washington State
Posts: 18,371
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 975 Post(s)
Liked: 546
We had the mother of all discussions on WBF about this topic: http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showth...diophile-Fuses

I got some follow up PM from the company addressing the questions I asked regarding measurement gear and such but did not save it. Didn't change my mind though.

Amir
Retired Technology Insider
Founder, Madrona Digital
"Insist on Quality Engineering"
amirm is online now  
post #8 of 125 Old 01-24-2012, 11:20 AM
Member
 
Ernstmach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: The Great Mitten..
Posts: 160
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 17
...."Fuse Rolling".
Ernstmach is online now  
post #9 of 125 Old 01-24-2012, 12:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Glimmie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,014
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Liked: 249
Well I guess I'll have to ask the infamous Glimmie question I always ask when these foo foo companies get into AC primary wiring devices: Are these fuses UL listed (or equivalent)?

And again, it's not Ok to buy OEM UL listed fuses and replate them. That's a modification which nullifies the listing.

Fuses are a safety feature, not only for the equipment but for YOU as well.

Glimmie's HT Page
Being redone - comming soon!

Glimmie is online now  
post #10 of 125 Old 01-25-2012, 06:04 PM
Advanced Member
 
fastl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boston
Posts: 589
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 11
...When FUD bites, you open your wallet and buy these....

More like: when STUPIDITY bites, you open your wallet and buy these.
fastl is offline  
post #11 of 125 Old 01-25-2012, 10:11 PM
 
BassMasterG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Denver
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
These have been around for a while now, when i bought my MBL amps they tried pushing these on me. I couldn't hear a difference so i didn't buy them.
BassMasterG is offline  
post #12 of 125 Old 01-26-2012, 10:39 AM
Advanced Member
 
jmichaelf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 988
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
There's a weak link joke in here somewhere.
jmichaelf is offline  
post #13 of 125 Old 01-26-2012, 12:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
edorr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,469
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmichaelf View Post

There's a weak link joke in here somewhere.

The weakest link is always the gullible audiophile (aka as "sucker"). This would include me - proud owner of 8 hifi supreme fuses ($55 a pop). Why take any risk of leaving performance improvement opportunities (illusory or real) unexploited when $440 earns you less than $4 a year in the bank?

Incidentally, the new PS audio PWD MKII upgrade kit comes with two high grade audiophile fuses.
edorr is offline  
post #14 of 125 Old 01-26-2012, 12:26 PM
Member
 
Champ04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 128
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I understand the skepticism.
But I had a chance to try some. No $$ outlay. No expectations. No biased "prepping" by anyone interested in selling them.
Just a friend that had come by some, had no use for them and said, "Here, I don't know what to do with these. You want 'em?"

Differences? Subtle. But distinct, in my system. Enough that I won't be pulling them back out.

For what it's worth....
Champ04 is offline  
post #15 of 125 Old 01-26-2012, 12:45 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Glimmie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,014
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Liked: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Champ04 View Post

I understand the skepticism.
But I had a chance to try some. No $$ outlay. No expectations. No biased "prepping" by anyone interested in selling them.
Just a friend that had come by some, had no use for them and said, "Here, I don't know what to do with these. You want 'em?"

Differences? Subtle. But distinct, in my system. Enough that I won't be pulling them back out.

For what it's worth....

And how exactly did you measure the difference? Simply replacing the fuses and hearing what you think is a difference is not a valid test at all. If you are going to do a listening test versus an electrical measurement, you need to do DBT which is discussed at length on these forums.

Now were these fuses used? If so that brings up yet two more contradictory audiophile theories:

1) Used parts are "worn" and may not be giving you the full experience.

2) Used parts are "burned in" and therefore quite superior to new parts.

Either way it's hogwash to me and many others with electronics backgrounds.

And again, legitimate fuses from the classic manufactures, Bussman, Littlefuse, etc, are tested and certified to strict standards for current rating and blow timing. They are further tested and listed by independent safety labs like UL, CSA, ETL.

How about these foo foo fuses with no traceable manufacturing origins? The engineer who designed your amps and other components no doubt designed to the standards I speak of. Now you put these charlatan fuses in to protect those circuits.

Yep, they sound great so leave them in!

Glimmie's HT Page
Being redone - comming soon!

Glimmie is online now  
post #16 of 125 Old 01-27-2012, 11:20 AM
Advanced Member
 
Peter Nielsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Wilmington, NC, USA
Posts: 895
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastl View Post

...When FUD bites, you open your wallet and buy these....

More like: when STUPIDITY bites, you open your wallet and buy these.

Well, if you buy a pair of Magnepan 20.1 (list $16,000 today?) and the speakers come with gold plated sockets fitted with regular fuses, I don't think its really that stupid if someone wants to replace the cheap fuses with something that - if nothing else - looks better... Also these fuses are directly in the signal path after all. I do agree that sound-wise the investment probably does not make a difference at all.

Why put expensive rims on a car? Likewise you can argue that this is stupid. They don't make the car any faster/better, etc...

That said, I have not replaced my Maggie fuses, and I'm not using aftermarket rims either. However, each one to his own.
Peter Nielsen is offline  
post #17 of 125 Old 01-27-2012, 11:27 AM
Advanced Member
 
Peter Nielsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Wilmington, NC, USA
Posts: 895
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Audiophile jewelry is what it is. Like jewels, some of these components actually keep their value and increase in price over the years...
Peter Nielsen is offline  
post #18 of 125 Old 01-27-2012, 12:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Glimmie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,014
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Liked: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Nielsen View Post

Audiophile jewelry is what it is. Like jewels, some of these components actually keep their value and increase in price over the years...

I don't think we in the "hogwash" camp have a problem with that at all. I know I don't. If somebody wants to buy expensive fuses or power cords because they like they way they look, that's fine.

It's the false scientific advertising I and many other have a problem with. To use your wheel rim analogy, buying them for looks is perfectly fine. But if the manufacture claims improved gas milage with their fancy wheel rims, well I for one want to see the test results from an independent lab.

And then there is the safety issue I always bring up when it comes to power products. Going back to the wheel rims, suppose they don't latch on properly and tend to fall off. That could be a fatal road hazard. So are these fancy wheel rims compliant to auto industry safety standards?

Does a Prada purse protect your cell phone any better than a vinyl Wall Mart purse?

Glimmie's HT Page
Being redone - comming soon!

Glimmie is online now  
post #19 of 125 Old 01-27-2012, 05:50 PM
Advanced Member
 
fastl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boston
Posts: 589
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 11
...Like jewels, some of these components actually keep their value and increase in price over the years......

Until you blow one of them...then how much are they worth? I'll bet they have good fidelity when they blow!
fastl is offline  
post #20 of 125 Old 01-27-2012, 05:56 PM
Advanced Member
 
Peter Nielsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Wilmington, NC, USA
Posts: 895
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastl View Post

...Like jewels, some of these components actually keep their value and increase in price over the years......

Until you blow one of them...then how much are they worth? I'll bet they have good fidelity when they blow!

Yeah, in all fairness I would not feel comfortable buying a used fuse. What I had in mind is WBT speaker conenctors (another form of audiophile bling). I purchased three dozen WBT-0645s back in 2004 for $12 each. Today these sell for a whopping $45 (!) each. I can't say I have ever owned any other piece of gear that has increased in value like that in a relatively short time...
Peter Nielsen is offline  
post #21 of 125 Old 01-27-2012, 06:03 PM
Advanced Member
 
Peter Nielsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Wilmington, NC, USA
Posts: 895
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

It's the false scientific advertising I and many other have a problem with.

Don't listen to that. False advertising is everywhere. I bet that Prada bag is going to give you a much better life... If you believe it, that may actually be true. Think about it

The big "problem" with these products is the big "what if" that creeps up... What if this product actually makes a difference? Some people will buy it just for peace of mind. Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.
Peter Nielsen is offline  
post #22 of 125 Old 01-27-2012, 08:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Glimmie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,014
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Liked: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Nielsen View Post

I bet that Prada bag is going to give you a much better life... If you believe it, that may actually be true. Think about it
.

Two possibilities: (assuming its a gift to her)

1) single, you might just get laid!

2) married, you just get a higher credit card balance !

Glimmie's HT Page
Being redone - comming soon!

Glimmie is online now  
post #23 of 125 Old 01-30-2012, 11:41 AM
Advanced Member
 
Peter Nielsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Wilmington, NC, USA
Posts: 895
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

Well I guess I'll have to ask the infamous Glimmie question I always ask when these foo foo companies get into AC primary wiring devices: Are these fuses UL listed (or equivalent)?.

Supposedly the IsoClean fuses are UL listed, some of the others are not.

Also, a UL listing is not worth much outside the US. A CE rating is needed in most European countries to legally import/market a device.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

And again, it's not Ok to buy OEM UL listed fuses and replate them. That's a modification which nullifies the listing.)

Correct, but it may be possible to have the OEM manufacture the listed fuses with gold plating (if such a provision exists).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

Fuses are a safety feature, not only for the equipment but for YOU as well.

If it fails in a speaker, the worst thing that happens is that your speaker element blows. If it's a mains power fuse, then the breaker (or fuse) in your distribution center is there to avoid a catastrophy. The fuse in the amplifier is only added protection that should not be solely relied on.

I think the risk of something going wrong is much greater if you venture into purchasing an aftermarket power cord that is not UL and CE rated...
Peter Nielsen is offline  
post #24 of 125 Old 01-30-2012, 11:54 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
thebland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Detroit, Michigan USA
Posts: 24,007
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 314 Post(s)
Liked: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post


Does a Prada purse protect your cell phone any better than a vinyl Wall Mart purse?

You cannot be married!

Since when is a purse purchased for protection of anything? Purse purchases are analogous to shoe purchases for women: forget comfort or protection of contents (or feet), it is all about fashion!!!

My Home Theater of the Month- Le Petit Trianon

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
thebland is offline  
post #25 of 125 Old 01-30-2012, 02:46 PM
Advanced Member
 
Solfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Skylands N.J. & Hawaii Kai
Posts: 531
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
When these fuses blow, the silence is more "open".
Solfan is offline  
post #26 of 125 Old 02-06-2012, 05:35 PM
Advanced Member
 
BobearQSI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 644
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 26
I remember a study where simply being told wine cost more actually changed the chemical response in the brain - and that likewise, subjects who were told an energy drink cost more actually performed better on puzzles:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13580_3-9849949-39.html

Thus, I am solidly convinced a sucker audiophile can actually hear a difference from more expensive _____insert_item_here______. Not because it is actually different soundwaves, but because there is more activity in the brain's pleasure center they hear it differently.
BobearQSI is online now  
post #27 of 125 Old 02-06-2012, 05:47 PM
Advanced Member
 
Solfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Skylands N.J. & Hawaii Kai
Posts: 531
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
^^ Yup, I think the anticipation/excitement of hearing an improvement after connecting a new device increases blood/oxygen flow to the auditory senses and creates the illusion that it sounds "better".

I caught myself falling into this very trap many years ago... the above happened to me on more than one occasion, then a few days later I calmly A/B tested the device/cable/wire in question and I then heard no difference at all.
Solfan is offline  
post #28 of 125 Old 02-06-2012, 05:52 PM
Advanced Member
 
fastl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boston
Posts: 589
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I am solidly convinced that sucker audiophiles hear "differences" in everything they listen to, not just fuses!
fastl is offline  
post #29 of 125 Old 02-07-2012, 10:52 AM
Advanced Member
 
BobearQSI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 644
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Which begs the question . . . if it actually changes way your brain works, makes wine literally taste better - if paying more literally heightens your senses and gives you golden ears you did not have before, is it worth it? Especially if money is no object?
BobearQSI is online now  
post #30 of 125 Old 02-07-2012, 12:28 PM
Member
 
Champ04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 128
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I take issue with the arrogant bastards who like to constantly repeat "Sucker" audiophiles.

Keep in mind that you are just another faceless name on a computer screen who is spending your time shamelessly mocking other human beings.

At this point I could give a **** about these tweaky devices and their credibility.
I know not a damn one of you would call me "sucker" to my face.
Keep that in mind next time you feel that cowardly tendency to call names.......
Just sayin.
Champ04 is offline  
Reply Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+)



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off