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post #181 of 237 Old 06-21-2012, 10:07 AM
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Latest software is 6.00.11
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post #182 of 237 Old 06-25-2012, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustMike View Post

I was particularly interested that they were told that early demo units had noisier fans than production models. This was my #1 issue when I saw a demo. I really want to see a current production model now.

Mike even good fans are cheap when talking about a projector like this. I know no one wants to open up a brand new PJ, but Delta, Sunco and other high end fluid bearing fans and others only cost about 15-20 dollars each and will have higher CFM and lower noise levels.


It is an option at least.

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post #183 of 237 Old 06-27-2012, 02:14 PM
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Certainly true, but I'd be loath to open the case and void the warranty. Hopefully SIM2 have chosen nice fans for whatever change was made.

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post #184 of 237 Old 07-01-2012, 09:17 AM
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Tech support says that the latest software lowers fan speed which results in quieter performance.
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post #185 of 237 Old 07-04-2012, 01:05 PM
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Very interesting!

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post #186 of 237 Old 07-23-2012, 11:10 AM
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Here's a new (comprehensive) review on the M.150: http://hometheaterreview.com/sim2-m150-led-dlp-hd-front-projector-reviewed/
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post #187 of 237 Old 07-23-2012, 04:53 PM
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Very positive review! It's interesting that he notes that the projector was noisy. I've seen this comment several times, and SIM2's response, that it's an issue that has been addressed. I'm sorry that they haven't supplied a review unit that is truly up to date so that reviewers could give an assessment of the current shipping machine.

It was interesting to hear that it was overly bright out of the box. I wonder how bright it was when I saw it. I was explicitly told that no measured calibration had been performed, and I can't help wondering if the flickering and strobing that I noticed were due to excessive brightness.

I'm really sorry that there's not an opportunity to see one of these projectors, in full shipping form with whatever quietness updates have been made, in a proper, calibrated demo environment. frown.gif

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post #188 of 237 Old 07-26-2012, 08:15 AM
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It's been gratifying to see that my posted first impressions have been validated by qualified others. There is yet another 'rave' by a British site called 'Trusted Reviews'. Interestingly, their only grumble (other than the remote control) was a slightly elevated noise level. I wonder if they too have a sample that pre-dates the fan speed software update?
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post #189 of 237 Old 07-26-2012, 02:59 PM
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I think SIM2 will have done a real disservice to the product if they have shipped it to reviewers and distributors without latest refinements. I was so disappointed to walk into a local dealer showroom where their distributor had brought the projector for me to see. Literally the first words out of my mouth as I stepped over the threshold were, "Gosh, I hope that noise isn't the projector." It was. frown.gif And I ruled it out of contention for my theater. Wouldn't it be a shame if the projector on which I based that decision wasn't up to date? I so wanted to like the projector, but neither I nor the friend I brought along felt that the noise level we heard was acceptable.

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post #190 of 237 Old 08-20-2012, 11:09 PM
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Yet another review that mentions one of the few issues with the M150 is the noise-

http://www.trustedreviews.com/sim2-m-150_Projector_review#tr-review-summary
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustMike View Post

I think SIM2 will have done a real disservice to the product if they have shipped it to reviewers and distributors without latest refinements. I was so disappointed to walk into a local dealer showroom where their distributor had brought the projector for me to see. Literally the first words out of my mouth as I stepped over the threshold were, "Gosh, I hope that noise isn't the projector." It was. frown.gif And I ruled it out of contention for my theater. Wouldn't it be a shame if the projector on which I based that decision wasn't up to date? I so wanted to like the projector, but neither I nor the friend I brought along felt that the noise level we heard was acceptable.

Shame about the noise level ref. Sim2 M150. What did you go for in the end Mike?
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post #191 of 237 Old 08-21-2012, 02:59 PM
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Gees...every review I've read raves about virtually every aspect of the M.150 and lists a couple of minor cons, higher than normal fan noise among them. No matter that some experts are saying the image is the best they've ever seen...it's the few extra dB in the review samples that naysayers focus in on and cite as an intolerable "deal breaker". We're not talking jet engine loud. It's just slightly louder than some arbitrary norm. It's certainly a non issue when the accompanying audio is anywhere in the vicinity of reference. And it is almost a non issue...even with no sound...when placement is 3 or 4' away from ears. I just don't understand how a little extra fan speed can trump a world-class image. The corollary being that a less-spectacular image in conjunction with a quieter projector is preferable?!
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post #192 of 237 Old 08-22-2012, 02:31 PM
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Spitz: Sony VPL-VW1000ES

Pete: as I mentioned before, when I had the chance to audition the M.150 at last, I noticed the fan noise as soon as I set foot in the room. It wasn't a subtle thing that I noticed over time, or because I was sitting very close. And my companion noticed it as well, unprompted.

I've spent a small fortune making my room ultra quiet, but unfortunately there was just no way to do a projector enclosure or a booth, so the sound level is a critical factor for me. Perhaps the 150 I saw/heard was much louder than yours. SIM2 have said that some demo models had a noisy fan, so maybe this was one of those. Perhaps it was set to high altitude, like a 1000ES I saw recently. I don't know.

In addition to the noise, I was also bothered by a strobing effect similar to ones I've seen on over-bright 3-chip DLP, which may indicate that the projector was overly bright as well. I am extremely flicker sensitive, so it may just be that LCoS or 3-chip DLP are the only technologies I can really watch comfortably.

I do feel that I tried really hard to see the SIM2 at its best. I flew to Vegas for CES for the sole purpose of seeing the 150, only to find it on non-operational display. All told, it took nine months to arrange the viewing I finally got, to which the rep arrived with no 3D glasses or emitter, and during which the projector was shown without calibration or confirmation of proper light levels.

I was simply not able to find another opportunity to see it before I needed to make a choice. There are apparently no AVSers local to me who could let me see one in their home theaters.

Really a pity, because I had such high hopes for the machine, and I still hold SIM2 in very high regard. I see that the M.150 is top billed for them for this year's CEDIA, so maybe I'll get a chance to see it set up by SIM2 themselves, but it's too late at this point.

In the end, I had to pass this time around. I will look again in a few years when I am looking for my next projector.

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post #193 of 237 Old 08-24-2012, 09:07 AM
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I started out on these with the old JVC G10 blast-furnace and quickly decided on a through-the-wall installation, so noise won't be an issue here. tongue.gif

My shelving unit should [just barely] accommodate the M150.
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post #194 of 237 Old 09-01-2012, 05:08 PM
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Yeah, I really wish I had been able to build a projection booth in this theater. That will be a must-have if I ever do another one. Then you have so much more flexibility in what you use.

Of course, by the time I recover from this build and am willing to tackle another theater, we'll probably have OLED walls that you spray on from a can... ;-)

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post #195 of 237 Old 09-15-2012, 03:05 PM
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After spending plenty of time chilling out in Sim2's demo room at CEDIA, I was completely 'smitten' with the M150. If anyone has had a chance to see both the M150 and Mico 50, could they care to comment on how different the brightness and general image quality is between the two? I am not into 3D and if I can get something very close to the M150's 2D performance in the Mico 50, I would be tempted

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post #196 of 237 Old 09-15-2012, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danieledmunds View Post

After spending plenty of time chilling out in Sim2's demo room at CEDIA, I was completely 'smitten' with the M150. If anyone has had a chance to see both the M150 and Mico 50, could they care to comment on how different the brightness and general image quality is between the two? I am not into 3D and if I can get something very close to the M150's 2D performance in the Mico 50, I would be tempted

If you have had any time also with the Sony1000ES, it would be interesting to hear your comparison of the (2d) performance of it and the M150.

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post #197 of 237 Old 09-15-2012, 05:44 PM
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I opted to be herded through the Sony demo twice and was impressed with the VW1000, first time I watched from a distance and second time time much closer. Sony packed people in quite close to the 150" screen in the demo room and it was completely light controlled. The Sim2 demo had a little ambient light and you were sat a more comfortable distance from the 107" screen. The VW1000 was visibly brighter than the M150 - It was lighting up a 150" 2.35:1 screen without any difficulty. The complete light control of the Sony enabled them to show off the black levels which were excellent. I normally cringe at the slightest hint of a dynamic iris but it worked seamlessly on the VW1000. Despite seeing the (also very good ) JVC demo with its high native contrast ratio, the blackouts between scenes in the trailers were 'complete' on the Sony. That and the brightness gave it a nice cinematic feel. The M150 certainly had excellent black levels, I am sure on paper its worse than the Sony but not a major factor to me. By the same token, I can't say that the Sim2 was necessarily sharper but being a DLP, there was the 'pop' as many describe it, a more dimensional foreground look which I am a sucker for. Both were very good in a lot of areas, the real difference for me was in the way they handled colour. Now don't get me wrong, the Sony looked accurate and punchy but there was just a richer quality in the darker ranges of colour on the Sim2. I managed to catch a bit of Battleship on the M150, the was a scene with some CGI lens flare (it seems to be a favourite effect in Hollywood these days) where you could see deep crimsons and purples that almost jumped off the screen. I started looking for colour in dark areas that I hadn't seen before. It was a kind of uncanny experience where I started questioning how well I see things in real life.
The Sony looked like a JVC on 4K steroids whereas the Sim2 brought something new to the table for me. Despite the upscaling to 4K, I still preferred how the M150 dealt with 1080p content, which is what I would be predominantly using it for.

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post #198 of 237 Old 09-15-2012, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danieledmunds View Post

I opted to be herded through the Sony demo twice and was impressed with the VW1000, first time I watched from a distance and second time time much closer. Sony packed people in quite close to the 150" screen in the demo room and it was completely light controlled. The Sim2 demo had a little ambient light and you were sat a more comfortable distance from the 107" screen. The VW1000 was visibly brighter than the M150 - It was lighting up a 150" 2.35:1 screen without any difficulty. The complete light control of the Sony enabled them to show off the black levels which were excellent. I normally cringe at the slightest hint of a dynamic iris but it worked seamlessly on the VW1000. Despite seeing the (also very good ) JVC demo with its high native contrast ratio, the blackouts between scenes in the trailers were 'complete' on the Sony. That and the brightness gave it a nice cinematic feel. The M150 certainly had excellent black levels, I am sure on paper its worse than the Sony but not a major factor to me. By the same token, I can't say that the Sim2 was necessarily sharper but being a DLP, there was the 'pop' as many describe it, a more dimensional foreground look which I am a sucker for. Both were very good in a lot of areas, the real difference for me was in the way they handled colour. Now don't get me wrong, the Sony looked accurate and punchy but there was just a richer quality in the darker ranges of colour on the Sim2. I managed to catch a bit of Battleship on the M150, the was a scene with some CGI lens flare (it seems to be a favourite effect in Hollywood these days) where you could see deep crimsons and purples that almost jumped off the screen. I started looking for colour in dark areas that I hadn't seen before. It was a kind of uncanny experience where I started questioning how well I see things in real life.
The Sony looked like a JVC on 4K steroids whereas the Sim2 brought something new to the table for me. Despite the upscaling to 4K, I still preferred how the M150 dealt with 1080p content, which is what I would be predominantly using it for.


Tx for the very thoughtful comments!

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post #199 of 237 Old 09-16-2012, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danieledmunds View Post

I opted to be herded through the Sony demo twice and was impressed with the VW1000, first time I watched from a distance and second time time much closer. Sony packed people in quite close to the 150" screen in the demo room and it was completely light controlled. The Sim2 demo had a little ambient light and you were sat a more comfortable distance from the 107" screen. The VW1000 was visibly brighter than the M150 - It was lighting up a 150" 2.35:1 screen without any difficulty. The complete light control of the Sony enabled them to show off the black levels which were excellent. I normally cringe at the slightest hint of a dynamic iris but it worked seamlessly on the VW1000. Despite seeing the (also very good ) JVC demo with its high native contrast ratio, the blackouts between scenes in the trailers were 'complete' on the Sony. That and the brightness gave it a nice cinematic feel. The M150 certainly had excellent black levels, I am sure on paper its worse than the Sony but not a major factor to me. By the same token, I can't say that the Sim2 was necessarily sharper but being a DLP, there was the 'pop' as many describe it, a more dimensional foreground look which I am a sucker for. Both were very good in a lot of areas, the real difference for me was in the way they handled colour. Now don't get me wrong, the Sony looked accurate and punchy but there was just a richer quality in the darker ranges of colour on the Sim2. I managed to catch a bit of Battleship on the M150, the was a scene with some CGI lens flare (it seems to be a favourite effect in Hollywood these days) where you could see deep crimsons and purples that almost jumped off the screen. I started looking for colour in dark areas that I hadn't seen before. It was a kind of uncanny experience where I started questioning how well I see things in real life.
The Sony looked like a JVC on 4K steroids whereas the Sim2 brought something new to the table for me. Despite the upscaling to 4K, I still preferred how the M150 dealt with 1080p content, which is what I would be predominantly using it for.

Fantastic! I love led projectors and all the advantages in using the device they can get you..
But even in this case.. 150" against 107"... Not to say for 3d..
And I own a 11'wide At screen gain 1.0: already too big for m 150?!
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post #200 of 237 Old 09-16-2012, 08:16 AM
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Maybe I missed something. The demo I seen on the show floor was a walk in (maybe due to the last day and traffic was slow) and it was some extreme snowboarders. Good yes but great, no. I am guessing that was the m150 I seen.

The m150 I think is $28K but the DPI 1100 lumen LED is $40K!

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post #201 of 237 Old 09-16-2012, 09:57 AM
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Maybe I missed something. The demo I seen on the show floor was a walk in (maybe due to the last day and traffic was slow) and it was some extreme snowboarders. Good yes but great, no. I am guessing that was the m150 I seen.
The m150 I think is $28K but the DPI 1100 lumen LED is $40K!

Yes, that was the M.150.  It made a big difference in PQ whether the door was opened or closed.  The Sim2 people seemed to  have a very lackadaisical attitude regarding demoing the product.  I asked them to close the door as the light spill from the show floor was washing out the image.  The LED units still could use some increased brightness for sure.

 

I would agree with danielemonds comment though.  For me, the the M.150 had more image depth and color pop than the Sony VPL-VW1000es.

 

I believe that was the DPI dVision 35 LED unit at the DPI display.

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post #202 of 237 Old 09-16-2012, 02:08 PM
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Yes, I should have stated that the door being closed was what my comments were based on. Agreed, when the doors were open it looked OK but nothing special. I got there quite early in the morning and the SIm2 reps had the doors closed when I got there. I wouldn't want to go much bigger than the 107" unless it was a high gain screen. The screen used on the demo floor was a standard 1.3 Stewart screen if I recall correctly.
The DPI LED demo was dissappointing, not because of the projector though. I tried twice to specifically ask (as did others) to see the LED, they told me to come back at the specified time and then only showed a couple of minutes of Avatar before switching back to the 2.35:1 model. What little time they did show, it also seemed to produce similar colors to the M150 but it was on for such a short time that I couldn't get a good idea of how it looked. It also seemed like the demo had been setup specifically for the 2.35:1 model which may also explain why they didn't want to show the LED.

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post #203 of 237 Old 09-16-2012, 02:31 PM
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That was odd at DPI with times for each projector. In the past you just walked in as long as there was room.

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post #204 of 237 Old 09-17-2012, 02:50 PM
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Since I posted comments before about my M.150 audition, I wanted to follow up with my impressions from seeing it briefly at CEDIA. Of course there was no way to evaluate the noise level of the projector, since it was in a separate projection room and the show floor is very noisy. In terms of picture, I didn't see the obvious strobing effects that I saw when I demoed the unit before. This may have been a question of content (I used lots of dark scenes, and the CEDIA demo had lots of bright scenes), or of better setup for the CEDIA demo. At one point we did pull up a high-contrast menu on the screen, and then I could see more of that sort of refresh/strobing artifact.

On the content that I watched, the projector looked very nice.

So, my conclusion is this: if you are highly flicker sensitive, as I am, audition this or any projector personally.

PS: regarding the DPI, I watched the demo of both the 2.35-native projector and the LED, and I was really surprised that the color saturation of the LED was less than the single-chip colorwheel 2.35 machine! I can only imagine that this is a calibration issue. That said, the rainbow effect was very visible on the 2.35 machine, but absent entirely on the LED.

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post #205 of 237 Old 03-31-2013, 07:23 AM
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I own a Mico 50 projector, but I never could get the very good black levels reported in the reviews. I think dynamic black is too intrusive to be used. My projection room is all black and I have a screen 0.8, 110". The Mico was not calibrated ( I used calibrations form avs forum) and it has 1000 hours on, with a very good brightness. I noticed, however, than when I raise the color adjustment the black level gets better. Or is it an illusion? I'm using a RS 25 JVC projector that I also own, and the black level is far superior than the Mico's. Is there anything in the M 150 that explains its far superior black levels in comparison to the MICO?
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post #206 of 237 Old 04-01-2013, 06:56 AM
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Is there any owner of the Mico 50 who have calibrated its unit using the service menu? I live in Brazil and here we don't have isf calibrators. The black levels got considerably better with the calibration?
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post #207 of 237 Old 04-01-2013, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waltie View Post

I own a Mico 50 projector, but I never could get the very good black levels reported in the reviews. I think dynamic black is too intrusive to be used. My projection room is all black and I have a screen 0.8, 110". The Mico was not calibrated ( I used calibrations form avs forum) and it has 1000 hours on, with a very good brightness. I noticed, however, than when I raise the color adjustment the black level gets better. Or is it an illusion? I'm using a RS 25 JVC projector that I also own, and the black level is far superior than the Mico's. Is there anything in the M 150 that explains its far superior black levels in comparison to the MICO?
I've calibrated my MICO 50 many times from the service menu. If you're talking about absolute black level, calibration won't change it except for insuring you have the user controls set correctly, especially the Brightness control. Here are some things to check: 1. Signal range setting: If using RGB inputs make sure it's set to auto or to match your input video. 2. Brightness control: make sure it's not set too high so that your black levels are elevated. On mine the proper setting is 54-55. 3. Contrast control: set to get max brightness without clipping. On mine the proper setting is 48. Yours might be different, but I suspect there's a lot of correlation with these projectors. 4. Dynamic Black: definitely should be ON for lowest blacks. If yours is intrusive then check the next setting. 5. Firmware version: make sure you've got the latest version for the MICO 50. AFAIK the latest version is 509.10.47 . If yours is older, and you can't get your dealer to help you, PM me and I'll send the firmware with instructions on how to update. 6. If possible set your inputs to RGB video. The MICO 50 definitely prefers RGB for the input. If using YCbCr it will clip levels above 90%, throwing gamma off and limiting the overall brightness.

The MICO 50 presents a glorious image if properly set up using the dynamic black feature. Without this on, the picture is still great but the blacks will suffer.

PM me with questions.

By the way, my MICO 50 is for sale in the classifieds. smile.gif

Bob
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post #208 of 237 Old 04-01-2013, 11:51 AM
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Citation 4444: it's not the first time you help me. Thanks a lot. Presently I'm using my RS 25 projector. Did Sim 2 make any upgrade related to the Dynamic black? Mine is unbearable. When you have a dark scene, it acts like a lame iris. The subtitles dim an light according to the scene, and the projector's s fans make more or less noise, when the image brightens up or darkens. It's terrible. In all the reviews I read, they advised leaving it off. What do I do to see the latest firmware? I'll try to see it with my dealer and would much appreciate your helping me with the update procedure. Being repetitive, thanks again.
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post #209 of 237 Old 04-01-2013, 02:13 PM
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I suspect you have something faulty with your projector. Is it still under warranty? I believe the firmware update was related to improving dynamic black, but not too sure. To check what firmware you have, press the info button on the remote, and it's listed somewhere near the bottom of the list. If you want the firmware and procedure, PM me with your email address and I'll send it.

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post #210 of 237 Old 04-01-2013, 04:27 PM
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Thanks once again Citation: My projector is already out of guarantee. My e-mail is waltiesantos@hotmail.com When the dynamic black is off the unit works perfectly. I think that with a little more than 1000 hours is as bright as my RS25, about 350 hours on. Do you have any idea of what could be causing the strange behaviour of the Dynamic black ? By the way my present version is 509.10.46. I wish you could send me the instructions for the update.
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