Sim2 Worlds first Active 3D LED projector. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 237 Old 01-30-2012, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Niceness bright for LED 1100 lumens.
All M.150 orders taken before January 31 and shipped before March 31 will benefit from an extended warranty period on the product of five years.


Contact your local Sim2 dealer for further details!!



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post #2 of 237 Old 01-30-2012, 11:55 AM
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1100 lumens at 'standard while measurement'; does this mean at D65, or some max uncalibrated mode?
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post #3 of 237 Old 01-30-2012, 12:03 PM
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Can the M140 be upgraded for 3D later?
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post #4 of 237 Old 01-30-2012, 12:09 PM
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This is the next gen MICO... it is supposed to be at D65... I think we will have to see what someone measures to know for sure.

Very nice design as always from SIM2 and active 3d. From what has been posted else where supposed to use some of the lumis internals for better pathway. Any idea if this is true Alan?

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post #5 of 237 Old 01-30-2012, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Ive edited my first post. The 140 is not happening.

David the 100 lumens is true measurement. I heard but I do not know the details yet they are using a new LED light module that is indeed brighter. No tricks in the light path but I am not 100% on that.
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post #6 of 237 Old 01-30-2012, 04:27 PM
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Well let's see at the Rai tomorrow afternoon.
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post #7 of 237 Old 01-30-2012, 04:52 PM
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I really want to see this machine in a proper demo environment. It was at CES, but not a proper demo.

Any word on demo availability in the SF Bay area?

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post #8 of 237 Old 01-30-2012, 06:17 PM
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Alan Rosen said it will be in a seperate room, not just the booth, last year Sim2 had a nice demoroom.
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post #9 of 237 Old 02-01-2012, 03:18 PM
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Donaldk, did you get a chance to see the Sim2 M150 in action?

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post #10 of 237 Old 02-01-2012, 04:51 PM
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Yes I did. Nice and sharp. The content was a fairly dark concert so i would have gone for a somewhat smaller screen than the Black Diamond 2 1.4 gain 120" (2.5 meters wide) screen brought over from the UK. As it is 'only' 1000 lumens. The room was quite dark.

The still image of a red strawberry, on green (strawberries?), looked brighter, and the switch between Rec. 709, and Adobe RGB colourspace was quite noticable, deepening, and therefor darkening the green and also the red. Basically the same effect I saw with the Dolby LCD at IBC.

The active 3D did not show any tremor I could see. They were rather proud of the projector working with 0.9 milisecond switching time on the 3D glasses, without ghosting, retaining as much light as possible in 3D.

Euro pricing is 20K plus VAT.

Some people here wondered about the Nero, I did see it sit a pedestal, like some other units, but they were not being demoed, all focus was on the MICO 150.

I had a little chat with the develloper as well. He told me about his history with Seleco competing against the Eidephor in the Eureka 95 programme (EU analog and HD-MAC HD development program). I didn't ask about what exactly makes the LEDs go brighter, sorry, my bad...

From standby the start-up and loading of the various FPGAs' firmware is only taking milliseconds, forgot how many;-).


The Runco D73 Dual LED was shown on a larger screen, but the gain was 2. The passive 3D was quite stable. The polarisation filtering didn't bother me, though I didn't put it really to the test by shaking my head;-). The new LS12d active 3D was showing a slight tremor.
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post #11 of 237 Old 02-01-2012, 05:54 PM
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Any signs of color separation artifacts ("rainbow") with the projector? Also, was the room quiet enough to get a sense of fan noise?

I really envy your getting to see the projector in a proper demo room, even if on a non-ideal screen. I went to CES mostly to see the machine, and it was really not demoed.

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post #12 of 237 Old 02-01-2012, 06:27 PM
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Yeah, but I envy you for being able to even consider acquiring it;-).

Like I said the brief demo was stable and I didn't notice any motion artifacts/colour seperation issues. I am not very sensitive to it though. Unlike the Autostereoscopic 'Philips' LCDs that always make me feel sick or give me an headache. Yep, Philips Signage was showing these, eventhough they closed the 2D+ WOWVX 3D division down. I believe Domenico was at the show, but I didn't see them.

I didn't notice the fan noise, but there must have been some, eventhough it is a watercooled unit, as there must be fans on the radiators. Though the room was at a quiet part of the conference center, away from the showfloors there was some noise coming in, as the other half of the room was used for meetings, and when in the blacked-out half we were not dead quiet either.
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post #13 of 237 Old 02-01-2012, 11:34 PM
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Thanks!

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post #14 of 237 Old 02-02-2012, 03:54 AM
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sorry Donald I didn't understand..
which was the screen size?
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post #15 of 237 Old 02-02-2012, 05:18 AM
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Thanks for the info!

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post #16 of 237 Old 02-02-2012, 09:27 AM
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It was a Black Diamond 2 (Screen Innovations) not the high gain, not the negative gain, so the one in between, and I was told that has a gain of 1.4. The diagonal was 120", the width 2.5 meters, at least that was what I was told when I asked.
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post #17 of 237 Old 02-02-2012, 10:34 AM
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Thank you Donald
I have a 16/9 Screen Research 3,30*1,85 with 4 masks gain 1.0.
Do you think it' s too much for the M 150?
Better going with the Sony vw 1000 es?
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post #18 of 237 Old 02-02-2012, 10:46 AM
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Personally, I think your screen is too large for the Sony as well. I just told Wolfgang, in one of the other threads, I don't agree with his assesment that it can light up screens upto 5 meters wide in 2D. I believe you saw the ISE demo of the Sony, I didn't think it was bright enough to use on screens larger than the one they used there. I estimated that screen is 2.5 meter wide, perhaps a tad larger, but not much. If we get into high-end equipment like this I am not willing to compromise on brightness. Now if we are talking the 500/600 lumens units at 500-800 euro...
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post #19 of 237 Old 02-02-2012, 10:57 AM
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mmm I saw the Sony pre production unit
On a 4 meters screen gain 1.2 And was bright enough..
A seller has mesured 90 cd/mq on a 3 mt screen gain 1.0..
Good numbers...
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post #20 of 237 Old 02-02-2012, 02:15 PM
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Yeah, there was just one display I walked by that I considered slightly, but only slightly, too bright. That was a 6,5mm LED modular display, from Chinese manufacturer TCL. It was 'only' 3000 cd/m2. 'Yes, we can make it brighter, than we just use different LEDs'.

I also saw a pair of high temperature operating LCDs (105 degrees Celsius), 47" and 55", I believe these were Sharp displays. They were nice and bright at 2300 CD/M2.

If those number are good enough for you than the Sim2 will be bright enough for you, it offers 1000 lumens, the pre-production Sony unit was said to be around 800 lumens.

Why don't you ask for a visit to the Sim2 plant/demoroom, since you are in Italy?
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post #21 of 237 Old 02-03-2012, 03:05 PM
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I'm thinking an M.150 may be my next projector. I enjoyed the MICO 50 while I had it, but I really want to add 3D to the mix. Of all the 3D I've seen, SIM2 seems to do it best, and if the M.150 has the same 3D platform as the SOLO/NERO, it sounds like it could be the total package for me...at least until 4K or 8K becomes pervasive.
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post #22 of 237 Old 02-04-2012, 03:51 AM
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Pete the 3D Platform on the Solo is not the same as the Nero, with the latter missing out on the Triple Flash technology (reserved for the Solo only at this time).
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post #23 of 237 Old 02-04-2012, 06:38 AM
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Triple flash is indeed reserved to the 3 chippers, dual flash with 0.9 milliseconds seperation, no tremors, shakes or stutters I could see.
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post #24 of 237 Old 02-04-2012, 09:52 AM
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I've seen both the SOLO and the NERO in 3D and I could not detect any 3D-related problems -- jitter, ghosting, etc. -- in either one. The Solo, being a 3-chip, had more punch, and, yes, it has triple flash, but I could not detect the missing 12fps per eye when I saw the NERO. And 120fps is still faster than most other 3D projectors. There are ingredients other than refresh rate that make SIM2's SOLO 3D platform special. My only question is will it be bright enough in 3D? I know the perceived brightness of LED is greater than the standard ANSI number - some say 25% -- but will that be enough when in 3D to avoid eye strain? I'll let you know.
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post #25 of 237 Old 02-04-2012, 10:28 AM
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I have been waiting for a Brighter led based projector but the luminous Phat light 120 has been around for 2 or 3 years so I do not see how this projector would be much brighter than previous projectors unless they changed the projector lens. What I really like to know is what is the lumen output calibrated at D65
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post #26 of 237 Old 02-04-2012, 10:38 AM
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The R&D director told me 1000 lumens, spec says 1100 lumens.
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post #27 of 237 Old 02-04-2012, 01:03 PM
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... And how many candles and fl are/correspond 1000 lumens with the projector calibrated?
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post #28 of 237 Old 02-04-2012, 03:04 PM
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I would like to know if it does 24p material at 120 (maybe LRLRL/RLRLR), or if it goes to 96Hz for 24p like everybody else. I've heard both answers, so I'd like to really find out for sure.

I'm sure it doesn't make 1100 calibrated lumens, but I bet it's north of 800, which should be plenty for my room especially since it won't lose much as it ages.

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post #29 of 237 Old 02-04-2012, 04:22 PM
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Double flash to each eye, triple flash is reserved for the 3-chippers.
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post #30 of 237 Old 02-04-2012, 05:31 PM
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So 96Hz for 24p. Too bad, but I still really want to see it!

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