Kudos to Mark Seaton - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 03-07-2012, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I decided to redo the sound in my room. I started last year by changing out my amps to the new Bryston gear. I followed up by getting an Anthem Statement processor, and then I finally got an MBL 101e center, to go along with the front pair. Last stop on that train was subville. Mark is local, so I sold my REL Studio and bought 3 Submersives. More importantly, I also hired Mark to calibrate them and integrate them into the system, and ultimately, the room.
I have since learned what people have been saying for years. The room and the system are a unit, one can't divorce one from the other.
Mark started by bringing the subs in and setting them up. I have a difficult room, brick walls and treatments in place, set up by an amateur. That first day, he made some recommendations about wall treatments. I switched out to some Gik bass traps, and added to some diffusers that were already on the ceiling. The basic concept was absorption on the walls, particularly the front one, and diffusion on the ceiling at the reflection points of the fronts and the centers.
I bought a Bryston sub crossover to help integrate 2 of the subs with the 101's and a Behringer sub EQ unit. Then Mark started his magic. He used a combination of EQ, playing with the crossover points and the Anthem processor to set delays for the LFE sub, and there is magic in the room. While not ruler flat, there are no significant peaks or dips in the bass response curve. Thanks to some judicious speaker repositioning, both 2 channel and surrround sound fantastic. He put in a movie to check out the final results, and I had the odd sensation of my shirt MOVING when the bass started.
What a master. By far the best money I could have spent on the system.

David

DES
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post #2 of 13 Old 03-07-2012, 09:14 PM
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congrats, David nice to see the potential for that system get realized.

Dan

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post #3 of 13 Old 03-07-2012, 09:33 PM
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Mark is a great guy. I am glad you are happy with his service.

My new favorite game is Save The Titanic

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post #4 of 13 Old 03-08-2012, 01:47 PM
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I have seen him work his magic in my room and several others and the before and after is never subtle

Kevin
----------
Motor City Custom Audio
Bringing you Custom subwoofer kits, with flames if you want
Onix and Melody Valve Hi Fi Audio Dealer serving the Midwest and Canada
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post #5 of 13 Old 03-08-2012, 03:24 PM
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He installed my BDEAPS way before he hit the big time. At the time, there was nothing like it in HT!. Still rocking!!

I knew there was something special about that guy when I bought his subwoofer 'experiment' almost 10 years ago when he was an employee at Servodrive!

Like my Avatar says, "Nostradamus of HT"!! (I knew this guy was going places even before he did)!

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #6 of 13 Old 03-08-2012, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

He installed my BDEAPS way before he hit the big time. At the time, there was nothing like it in HT!. Still rocking!!

I knew there was something special about that guy when I bought his subwoofer 'experiment' almost 10 years ago when he was an employee at Servodrive!

Like my Avatar says, "Nostradamus of HT"!! (I knew this guy was going places even before he did)!

Yea, Mark has always been tops!! I've known Mark since 2000 on the forum and since 2001 when we hung out a bit at CES in Vegas!

As for The Bland, he scored on Mark, but lost his pants on Theta Digital!
He is morel like the Isaac Newton of Home Theater, as his apple sometimes drops, too!

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #7 of 13 Old 03-09-2012, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve bruzonsky View Post


yea, mark has always been tops!! I've known mark since 2000 on the forum and since 2001 when we hung out a bit at ces in vegas!

As for the bland, he scored on mark, but lost his pants on theta digital!
He is morel like the isaac newton of home theater, as his apple sometimes drops, too!:d

:d

Never become so involved with something that it blinds you.
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post #8 of 13 Old 03-09-2012, 11:38 AM
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Have to agree. I wanted to buy a new sub but I could not install it myself. I talked to Mark several times via PM. He was very gracious in returning all my questions with thoughtful answers. But, alas, I needed help. I told him that the only way I could his sub is if he came and helped me install it. Well, he did. He took my old sub out and installed the SubMersive. It was a great experience. Later, I wanted the HP amp for my sub. Without getting into too many details, he really helped me out with some issues that were UNIQUE TO ME. But he went above and beyond to make sure the problem was fixed.

Yep, Mark is one of the good ones. He is also the one to convince me that the wall unit I had was killing my sound so because of him, I ended up getting rid of it. He is also the reason I really looked into room treatments. It was one sentence that he wrote but I still remember it. He said "I was rather pleased with the results we achieved in Mike's small, untreated room." That really hit home. It took awhile but I did treat my room. My room has changed a lot since he first did the calibration but I still try and follow his advice and I always thank him for it.

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post #9 of 13 Old 03-09-2012, 02:30 PM
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Mark did great work in my room.

I had two of his Submersive subs, a DEQX, and a QSC dsp30, and was well down the path, I thought, with Room EQ Wizzard.

The results he delivered vs. what I was able to do on my own was night and day.
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post #10 of 13 Old 03-09-2012, 05:44 PM
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Thank you for all the compliments. Good to see you around too Steve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Shapiro View Post

I decided to redo the sound in my room. I started last year by changing out my amps to the new Bryston gear. I followed up by getting an Anthem Statement processor, and then I finally got an MBL 101e center, to go along with the front pair. Last stop on that train was subville. Mark is local, so I sold my REL Studio and bought 3 Submersives. More importantly, I also hired Mark to calibrate them and integrate them into the system, and ultimately, the room.
I have since learned what people have been saying for years. The room and the system are a unit, one can't divorce one from the other.
Mark started by bringing the subs in and setting them up. I have a difficult room, brick walls and treatments in place, set up by an amateur. That first day, he made some recommendations about wall treatments. I switched out to some Gik bass traps, and added to some diffusers that were already on the ceiling. The basic concept was absorption on the walls, particularly the front one, and diffusion on the ceiling at the reflection points of the fronts and the centers.
I bought a Bryston sub crossover to help integrate 2 of the subs with the 101's and a Behringer sub EQ unit. Then Mark started his magic. He used a combination of EQ, playing with the crossover points and the Anthem processor to set delays for the LFE sub, and there is magic in the room. While not ruler flat, there are no significant peaks or dips in the bass response curve. Thanks to some judicious speaker repositioning, both 2 channel and surrround sound fantastic. He put in a movie to check out the final results, and I had the odd sensation of my shirt MOVING when the bass started.
What a master. By far the best money I could have spent on the system.

David

Thank you very much David.

Some compliments to yourself for actually jumping on the simple, yet effective advice, and being willing to make some changes, while also being patient enough to get some the new treatments ordered and installed. It's so much simpler to just order a new electronic toy.

Replacing most of the 2" thick panels you had with the 5.5" and 3.5" thick GIK bass traps / acoustic panels up front made a huge difference in your mostly brick and very rigid basement. Re-purposing the diffusers from the back wall to the ceiling greatly helped the front row and center channel sound quality. Both of those changes allowed us to get the speakers off the risers you had to employ before, and the difference was anything but subtle.

Add in sufficient headroom and in-room extension into the 10Hz range, and you should be having some new found fun with the next movie night.

Enjoy!

Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
"Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood..." Daniel H. Burnham
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post #11 of 13 Old 03-09-2012, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Shapiro View Post

I switched out to some Gik bass traps, and added to some diffusers that were already on the ceiling. The basic concept was absorption on the walls, particularly the front one, and diffusion on the ceiling at the reflection points of the fronts and the centers.

Hi David,

I'm curious about the size of the room, and the type of diffusors used. Got pix?
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post #12 of 13 Old 03-10-2012, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Hi David,

I'm curious about the size of the room, and the type of diffusors used. Got pix?

The diffusers used were already installed with a 3x3 block of 9, 2'x2' diffusers. David had another 9 diffusers on the back wall which were not all that helpfully as they were placed. I can't recall who makes the ones he has, but they are formed plastic in the shape of 2" squares of varied height. They are maybe 4" tall in the center and make for a mounded shape that is lowest at the edges. I think a few companies made similar ones.

The left & back walls are exposed brick of the basement, with the front wall having a storage space behind it and the right wall having sets of double doors to closets & utility spaces most of the length.

The original block of ceiling diffusers were placed such that they were only effective for the second row. By repurposing those from the back wall to extend the block on the ceiling forward and moving the speakers toward the front wall a few feet, the diffusion was now effective for the front row as well. Prior to this the 2ch center image would be good from the back row but would get very diffuse as you moved forward & past the backs of the front seats (aligning well with the first ceiling reflection).

The GIK bass traps helped tame the front wall which the omni MBLs were lighting up so strongly. I pushed for the much thicker traps as there was way too much mid bass ringing in the room exemplified by a very audible mound in the 150Hz range which was clouding intelligibility and detail. As with most hard/rigid rooms this is an area which could use even more attention, and will likely get helped if David puts ARC to use in his Anthem.

After testing a handful of possible sub locations I settled on the three locations as front left corner, ~1/4 width at front right, and close to the middle of the back wall. I used a DCX-2496 to adjust the mix of the three. The addition of the back sub allowed filling in some big holes in the response seen in any front wall location.

Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
"Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood..." Daniel H. Burnham
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post #13 of 13 Old 03-10-2012, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

The diffusers used were already installed with a 3x3 block of 9, 2'x2' diffusers. David had another 9 diffusers on the back wall which were not all that helpfully as they were placed. I can't recall who makes the ones he has, but they are formed plastic in the shape of 2" squares of varied height. They are maybe 4" tall in the center and make for a mounded shape that is lowest at the edges. I think a few companies made similar ones.

Understood. Seem to be much the same as the ones I used. I was curious because the taller skyline types require fairly long distance from the listeners to avoid side effects.

Quote:


I pushed for the much thicker traps as there was way too much mid bass ringing in the room exemplified by a very audible mound in the 150Hz range which was clouding intelligibility and detail. As with most hard/rigid rooms this is an area which could use even more attention, and will likely get helped if David puts ARC to use in his Anthem.

Would you consider a membrane panel like RPG Modex if the mode frequencies were well defined?

Quote:


After testing a handful of possible sub locations I settled on the three locations as front left corner, ~1/4 width at front right, and close to the middle of the back wall. I used a DCX-2496 to adjust the mix of the three. The addition of the back sub allowed filling in some big holes in the response seen in any front wall location.

If David fires up the ARC he should probably put the DCX into bypass during the run, then use it to tweak or curve the final response as desired.
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