Speaker Wire Length - opinions please - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 40 Old 03-20-2012, 09:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Recently finished construction of home and had the builder run smurf tubing for future F / C / R speakers. I had anticipated my maximum speaker wire run back to the A/V cabinet would be no longer than 22' each channel. The final runs ended up being 35' per channel. Currently getting by with Monoprice 2-12 until budget allows for cable upgrade. Even my wife commented that the music is not as enjoyable to listen to as when speaker wire was an 18' pair of Audio Quest Type-8.

I thought I could just bite the bullet and get longer runs of AQ Type 8. Now the extra feet of wire has me concerned I am stuck with a "weakest link" that can not be overcome. Has anyone found that super long runs of their favorite speaker wire has negatively impacted sound?
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post #2 of 40 Old 03-21-2012, 03:44 AM
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If you're not speaking of $20,000 speaker wire, this is not likely the best place to post that question. None-the-less, your problem has nothing to do with the speaker wire. It would be room acoustics, speaker positioning, broken speaker ... not the wire.

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post #3 of 40 Old 03-21-2012, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

If you're not speaking of $20,000 speaker wire, this is not likely the best place to post that question. None-the-less, your problem has nothing to do with the speaker wire. It would be room acoustics, speaker positioning, broken speaker ... not the wire.

Agreed, 12/2 at 35 feet is well within the limits.

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post #4 of 40 Old 03-23-2012, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

If you're not speaking of $20,000 speaker wire, this is not likely the best place to post that question. None-the-less, your problem has nothing to do with the speaker wire. It would be room acoustics, speaker positioning, broken speaker ... not the wire.

Thats the only reason I had to open this thread. I was really curious as to what type of wire he was using or speakers lol.
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post #5 of 40 Old 03-23-2012, 04:33 PM
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...Even my wife commented that the music is not as enjoyable to listen to as when speaker wire was an 18' pair of Audio Quest Type-8....

And you're coming to the usual (irrational) audiophile conclusion that this is due to the cable?!
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post #6 of 40 Old 03-23-2012, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by causa View Post

Recently finished construction of home
The final runs ended up being 35' per channel.
Now the extra feet of wire has me concerned I am stuck with a "weakest link" that can not be overcome.
Has anyone found that super long runs of their favorite speaker wire has negatively impacted sound?

No.
So you have just moved your speakers to a new House/Room or moved the positions of the speakers in the same room?

Sounds to me more of a problem with positioning rather than anything to do with a little bit of extra extra wire on the runs.
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post #7 of 40 Old 03-24-2012, 05:51 AM
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As others have said, the room effects the sound more than anything else. To easily prove this. Move the equipment close to the speakers and hook up the old cables (without moving the speakers from current position and then listen. Let someone else switch back and forth so that you do not know which cable is used and then tell them, by listening, which cable is which.

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post #8 of 40 Old 03-24-2012, 05:36 PM
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A 35 foot length (70 foot loop) of 12 AWG cable will exhibit an insertion loss of about 0.24 dB when driving a 4 ohm loudspeaker load. Meaning that if you were to remove the cable entirely and directly connect the speaker to the amplifier, you would see a 0.24 dB difference in level.
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post #9 of 40 Old 03-25-2012, 05:53 PM
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Crosspost thread won't help you. You got all the answers you needed the first time you posted this thread in the audio theory forum, word for word identical to this one.

I suppose if you keep asking maybe you'll get the answer you are hoping to hear. In that case, skip the question and just do that. But to assist in your effort, try posting this at audio asylum... those guys love to hallucinate about cable effects.

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post #10 of 40 Old 03-25-2012, 07:38 PM
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"those guys love to hallucinate about cable effects."
******
It 's interesting that a forum were many posters could afford to buy snake oil by the giga-liter; the opinions expressed usually aren't based on magical thinking.

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post #11 of 40 Old 03-25-2012, 09:42 PM
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Usually. We have enough of that here but not nearly so much as many other forums.

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post #12 of 40 Old 03-25-2012, 10:55 PM
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Poor guy, has not been back to the thread after facing the angry mob!



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post #13 of 40 Old 03-26-2012, 06:24 AM
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He's already started this thread once. Received nearly 100 replies so far and has all the answers he needs.

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post #14 of 40 Old 03-26-2012, 12:38 PM
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lets see if i can find a response that breaks the laws of physics...

i know i can find that in the 20k forum!

:-)

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post #15 of 40 Old 03-26-2012, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzman View Post

lets see if i can find a response that breaks the laws of physics...

i know i can find that in the 20k forum!

:-)

I guess you havent figured it out yet...laws of physics are for mere mortals...we at AVSforum are immune to those laws...
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post #16 of 40 Old 03-26-2012, 04:15 PM
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...It 's interesting that a forum were many posters could afford to buy snake oil by the giga-liter; the opinions expressed usually aren't based on magical thinking....

Well, I certainly have the cash on hand to buy any of the exotic loudspeaker cables, but I would rather spend it on things that really do make a difference, rather than spend it on bling.
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post #17 of 40 Old 03-26-2012, 09:01 PM
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"Well, I certainly have the cash on hand to buy any of the exotic loudspeaker cables, but I would rather spend it on things that really do make a difference, rather than spend it on bling."
*********
I usually buy bulk brand name Japanese wire, German connectors and make my own cables. By not buying $5000 interconnects, $1000 power cords, made with degaussed, cryo-treated unobtainium, manufactured in China, I have money to buy tires for the cars. :>)

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post #18 of 40 Old 03-27-2012, 01:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vandevantersh1 View Post

"Well, I certainly have the cash on hand to buy any of the exotic loudspeaker cables, but I would rather spend it on things that really do make a difference, rather than spend it on bling."
*********
I usually buy bulk brand name Japanese wire, German connectors and make my own cables. By not buying $5000 interconnects, $1000 power cords, made with degaussed, cryo-treated unobtainium, manufactured in China, I have money to buy tires for the cars. :>)

Steve

Crap $6000 dollar tires! Do you drive something like this?



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post #19 of 40 Old 03-27-2012, 04:34 AM
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post #20 of 40 Old 03-27-2012, 05:29 AM
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^^^

i find this one effective for that as well...


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post #21 of 40 Old 03-27-2012, 05:47 AM
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Crap $6000 dollar tires! Do you drive something like this?


These three and two SUVs about do it for the tire budget. :>)
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post #22 of 40 Old 03-27-2012, 08:19 AM
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oh, come on. It ain't a Ferrari unless it has 12 cylinders and castor oil in the crankcase.
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post #23 of 40 Old 03-27-2012, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Poor guy, has not been back to the thread after facing the angry mob!


Well.... actually I have a life and just made it back to the AVS Forum to suffer the consequences of not knowing the best place to pose my question, and impatiently posting it twice. I considered the 20K thread would be the place where tweaks who really know how to squander money in search of audio bliss would share some profound opinions on speaker cable theory. Thanks to all for your thoughtful and educational replies.
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post #24 of 40 Old 03-27-2012, 08:32 PM
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"oh, come on. It ain't a Ferrari unless it has 12 cylinders and castor oil in the crankcase."
********
She has 12 cylinders but only Shell Helix Ultra in her dry sump oil tank.

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post #25 of 40 Old 03-27-2012, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by causa View Post

Well.... actually I have a life and just made it back to the AVS Forum to suffer the consequences of not knowing the best place to pose my question, and impatiently posting it twice. I considered the 20K thread would be the place where tweaks who really know how to squander money in search of audio bliss would share some profound opinions on speaker cable theory. Thanks to all for your thoughtful and educational replies.

hmm...so u didnt think that people who post on this forum will have a life as well. ...u think that's an excuse to not to come to your own post for several days and should be acceptable to the people who reply to your question. I am not trying to be rash or critical....but that comment came as a sarcastic comment ...It implies that you post a question...and people on the forum who have nothing better to do and no life of their own..should research and reply to your question and you come after few days to see whats the best answer..I think if you have been engaged in the discussion and more appreciative, you may have gotten more responses although this was not the right forum for your question....just my 2 cents
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post #26 of 40 Old 03-27-2012, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by causa View Post

Well.... actually I have a life and just made it back to the AVS Forum to suffer the consequences of not knowing the best place to pose my question, and impatiently posting it twice. I considered the 20K thread would be the place where tweaks who really know how to squander money in search of audio bliss would share some profound opinions on speaker cable theory. Thanks to all for your thoughtful and educational replies.


Buy the Audioquest.

There are a number of papers published in the Journal Of The Audio Engineering Society which use extensive scientific rigor to show that differences in source and destination reactances coupled with differences in resistance capacitance and inductance in different conductors account for measurable differences in performance.

All the other factors mentioned can be way more important, but do not be ashamed of being able to hear.

Differential equations do not violate the laws of physics


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post #27 of 40 Old 03-27-2012, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by causa View Post

Well.... actually I have a life and just made it back to the AVS Forum to suffer the consequences of not knowing the best place to pose my question, and impatiently posting it twice. I considered the 20K thread would be the place where tweaks who really know how to squander money in search of audio bliss would share some profound opinions on speaker cable theory. Thanks to all for your thoughtful and educational replies.

Well from your OP: "The final runs ended up being 35' per channel. Currently getting by with Monoprice 2-12 until budget allows for cable upgrade. Even my wife commented that the music is not as enjoyable to listen to as when speaker wire was an 18' pair of Audio Quest Type-8."

I agree with most of what's been posted to you in this thread that you started.

In my experience wire connections (both interconnect and speaker) are at best minor issues.

I have no experience with Audio Quest Type-8 speaker wire, but enough experience to think that it might have some very minor merit.

Likely better to spend the same money on something else that'll be more likely to help improve the sound of your new home setup.

The best is the enemy of the good. Voltaire (1694-1778)

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post #28 of 40 Old 03-28-2012, 07:48 AM
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Well I for one differ with my opinion. I do believe that speaker cables make a difference, and not only should you buy Audioquest Everest cables, but you need cable elevators as well. You'll notice a dramatical difference.


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post #29 of 40 Old 03-28-2012, 07:51 AM
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post #30 of 40 Old 03-28-2012, 11:20 AM
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How has the OP come to the conclusion that it's the speaker wires? It may just as well be the power wiring. First step is to rewire the room, install cryotreated breakers and receptacles and of course get some Audioquest (or whatever) power cords....
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