Alternatives to Casablanca III - Page 7 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #181 of 234 Old 07-06-2012, 10:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Jim HTPC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,278
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I don't know what's more funny... That the CBIII clips blacks and whites or that the owners (and dealers) never knew it!
Kudos to Lon. Hilarious!

What an ignorant comment to make Jeff. Those of us with Video Processors have already had the HDMI video going through the video processor. Why would you believe anyone would dismantle their system and re-reroute HDMI directly into an Audio Processor? I for one have always had a Lumagen Radiance XD upgraded to XE upgraded to XE3D which existed before the HD upgrade started. I output the audio from the Lumagen to the CB3HD. Nor I, or the rest of the crowd with video processors wouldn't have a reason to inspect video in/out of CB3HD.

We can all make stupid comments. Sometimes it's best to keep them to yourself.
Jim HTPC is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #182 of 234 Old 07-07-2012, 04:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
adidino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,221
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by VGI View Post

Oh and jeff, Please post a Picture of your ADA passing 0-255 visibly on your screen.
Please post this for us to see
Thanks
CRaig

Not sure about the ADA but the Classe passes it for sure. The Classe, and any other prepro with video pass through should not filter out anything. It should pass through the original content without change. I'm sure it's a pretty simple fix for Theta though...

McIntosh MX151 Owner's Thread

Owner, AudioXtream.
Authorized Dealer for Kef, Triad, Bryston, Auralic, Audeze, Grado, Audioquest, Marantz

Audioxtream.com
adidino is offline  
post #183 of 234 Old 07-07-2012, 08:36 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Steve Bruzonsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
Posts: 17,668
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim HTPC View Post

What an ignorant comment to make Jeff. Those of us with Video Processors have already had the HDMI video going through the video processor. Why would you believe anyone would dismantle their system and re-reroute HDMI directly into an Audio Processor? I for one have always had a Lumagen Radiance XD upgraded to XE upgraded to XE3D which existed before the HD upgrade started. I output the audio from the Lumagen to the CB3HD. Nor I, or the rest of the crowd with video processors wouldn't have a reason to inspect video in/out of CB3HD.
We can all make stupid comments. Sometimes it's best to keep them to yourself.

Most of us make stupid comments by accident. When it comes to Theta, the Bland makes them intentionally!!@@@mad.gif

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
Steve Bruzonsky is offline  
post #184 of 234 Old 07-07-2012, 08:58 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
thebland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Detroit, Michigan USA
Posts: 24,009
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 315 Post(s)
Liked: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim HTPC View Post

What an ignorant comment to make Jeff. Those of us with Video Processors have already had the HDMI video going through the video processor. Why would you believe anyone would dismantle their system and re-reroute HDMI directly into an Audio Processor? I for one have always had a Lumagen Radiance XD upgraded to XE upgraded to XE3D which existed before the HD upgrade started. I output the audio from the Lumagen to the CB3HD. Nor I, or the rest of the crowd with video processors wouldn't have a reason to inspect video in/out of CB3HD.
We can all make stupid comments. Sometimes it's best to keep them to yourself.

You're kidding right? Because you bypass the CBIII HD, it's OK that it clips blacks and whites? Hilarious!

My Home Theater of the Month- Le Petit Trianon

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
thebland is online now  
post #185 of 234 Old 08-17-2012, 04:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
stevekale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: London
Posts: 1,007
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

You're kidding right? Because you bypass the CBIII HD, it's OK that it clips blacks and whites? Hilarious!

I assure you I can see below black and above white via my new CB III HD.

EDIT: I why did I even bother to reply to this thread

Egglestonworks Andra III, Andra III Centre, Rosa (as surround). Rel Stentor II. Theta CB IV. Krell FPB 200 and two KAV 150a amps. Custom-built audio server. Oppo 103EU. Apple TV. Pioneer PDP-LX608D. Synergistic Research "Element Copper" front speaker cable. Cardas Clear Light bal interconnects.
stevekale is offline  
post #186 of 234 Old 08-18-2012, 05:07 AM
Super Moderator
 
markrubin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Jersey Shore
Posts: 23,075
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked: 467
perhaps this thread has run its course...

please take the high road in every post
if you see a problematic post, please do not quote it or respond to it: report it to the mods to handle
markrubin is offline  
post #187 of 234 Old 10-31-2012, 08:56 AM
Senior Member
 
k_lewis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Beverly Hills 90210
Posts: 493
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Looking for some feedback- Getting tired of "waiting" for Theta to get it together and release the Dirac Live upgrade, because my system is at a point whrre I cannot completely dial it in without room correction. I've checked with Theta as recently as last week, and still no firm answer on release date for Dirac.

I recently demo'd an Integra DHC-80.3 in my dealer's $150k+ reference system, where the 80.3 replaced the CBIII-HD in the chain as the processor. We did some A-B listening between the 80.3/CBIIIHD for movies and 2ch, and the 80.3 sounded 95% as good as the CBIIIHD for movies, very good for 2ch but of course not as good on the stage or depth in terms of critical listening. But, the video quality was nicer than the CBIII due to the 80.3's scaler. Actually in some respects it sounded better than the CBIIIHD because of the room correction in effect.

We then put a GenVIII S3 into the mix with the GenVIII running L/R and the 80.3 running the remainder. We could not tell a shred of difference between this and using a GenVIII with the CBIII-HD. Identical sound / stage / openness for both movies and 2ch. Quite amazing, really, considering the Integra is slighly more than $2k. It really got me thinking.

There is a well reputed company online that does high-end mods to the Integra and other audiophile gear - http://www.**************.com/upgrade-company-products/integra?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.pbv.v1.tpl&product_id=25&category_id=17

I spoke with the owner and he claims that a modded 80.3 (roughly $3200 in cost for a brand new moded unit), will be sonically on par with our out-perform a CBIII (they also mod Theta units as well). They back the claim with an unconditional inhome demo return policy. - e.g. you don't like it or agree, send it back. He seemed quite nice, knowledgeable and very low pressure (no sales pitches).

Looking at the DAC specs of the 80.3, which BTW does room correction in the 96khz domain, I could see how a properly modded unit could acheive similar sonic quality. So the quandry now is to either keep waiting for Dirac from Theta, buy a Trinnov unit for RC to go with the Theta, or sell the Theta and pick up a modded 80.3 plus a GenVIII s3.


A/V Gear: Elite 70" display, Theta CBIIIHD processor, Theta Intrepid amplifier, Oppo 95 BD, BG Radia LA800 mains, BG Radia CC400 center, four BG Radia R18i surrounds, dual 18" Bag End Infrasubs, two Fuhrman P1800PF AVRs, Synergistic Silver Reference active cables & interconnects. 

k_lewis is offline  
post #188 of 234 Old 10-31-2012, 09:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
edorr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,469
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by k_lewis View Post

We then put a GenVIII S3 into the mix with the GenVIII running L/R and the 80.3 running the remainder. We could not tell a shred of difference between this and using a GenVIII with the CBIII-HD. Identical sound / stage / openness for both movies and 2ch. Quite amazing, really, considering the Integra is slighly more than $2k. It really got me thinking.

How did you integrate the Integra with the GenVIII DAC in a multi channel setup? The Integra has no digital outs, and your source was presumably HDMI? How did the DAC get a digital input signal for the R/L channels? Even if you got that sorted out, how did you synch up the volume control between the GenVIII R/L channels and the other channels running through the integra?
Quote:
Originally Posted by k_lewis View Post

There is a well reputed company online that does high-end mods to the Integra and other audiophile gear - http://www.**************.com/upgrade-company-products/integra?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.pbv.v1.tpl&product_id=25&category_id=17
I spoke with the owner and he claims that a modded 80.3 (roughly $3200 in cost for a brand new moded unit), will be sonically on par with our out-perform a CBIII (they also mod Theta units as well). They back the claim with an unconditional inhome demo return policy. - e.g. you don't like it or agree, send it back. He seemed quite nice, knowledgeable and very low pressure (no sales pitches).

I have done some upgrades with this guy in the past - while he is legit, sometimes achieves good results, and will refund you the money if you don't like his work, he is also greatly hyping stuff. Has no problem conclusively stating his gear will trounce pieces of equipment that he has never heard, and just in general dismissing any equipment that has not been exposed to his magic touch as junk. Then, when something new comes out, everything that has come before it will be relegated to the scrapheap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by k_lewis View Post

Looking at the DAC specs of the 80.3, which BTW does room correction in the 96khz domain, I could see how a properly modded unit could acheive similar sonic quality. So the quandry now is to either keep waiting for Dirac from Theta, buy a Trinnov unit for RC to go with the Theta, or sell the Theta and pick up a modded 80.3 plus a GenVIII s3.

If room correction floats your boat and you can't wait, getting a digi out card for the Theta and a Trinnov MC would be an interesting alternative. If you want to keep this relatively cheap, you could get a four channel Trinnov ST2-Pro and just run R/L/C/LFE through the Trinnov. You could use the digital out from the Trinnov into the GenVIII for mains, use the Trinnov DACs for C/LFE and run the surround through the Theta DACs. Both the Trinnov and Theta have RS232 and 1dB volume increments steps, so you can integrate the volume control using an iRule macro.
edorr is offline  
post #189 of 234 Old 10-31-2012, 09:39 AM
RUR
Innocent Bystander
 
RUR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: California Republic
Posts: 2,378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 141 Post(s)
Liked: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by k_lewis View Post

......There is a well reputed company online that does high-end mods to the Integra and other audiophile gear - http://www.**************.com/upgrade-company-products/integra?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.pbv.v1.tpl&product_id=25&category_id=17

I spoke with the owner and he claims that a modded 80.3 (roughly $3200 in cost for a brand new moded unit), will be sonically on par with our out-perform a CBIII (they also mod Theta units as well). They back the claim with an unconditional inhome demo return policy. - e.g. you don't like it or agree, send it back. He seemed quite nice, knowledgeable and very low pressure (no sales pitches)......
Plenty of folks believe that the company provides no objectively demonstrable audible benefit. Caveat emptor.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1336902/how-do-i-verify-or-debunk-the-claims-of-the-upgrade-company
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1198719/the-upgrade-company-component-mods

Plenty of similar discussion on other audio fora.
RUR is offline  
post #190 of 234 Old 10-31-2012, 09:41 AM
Senior Member
 
k_lewis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Beverly Hills 90210
Posts: 493
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Thanks for the input and ideas- Not sure how the setup was plugged together, this was not my system. Perhaps it was a volume control sync using integrated macros. Audio was coming from SPDIF and not HDMI. I can only tell you that it worked fine stating this as the listener / observer.

I do have the 12ch single ended digi card installed in my CBIIIHD. The signal output is "fixed", so as you stated I would have to do some sort of volume control sync via remote on the Trinnov. Or find one or two of those old-school Theta volume control black boxes. I use an RTI control system.

When I spoke with the vendor at **************, he did not seem to be hyping the newest gear- he could very easily have suggested I send him my CBIII for further modding, but did not think it was worthwhile and that the Integra 80.3 or equivalent Onkyo model (essentially same guts in different chassis), would be a better bang for the buck especially considering recoup costs of selling the CBIIIHD. He was totally keen on using the GenVIII and did not try to sell me anything on that / dissuade me. He seemed rather legit- I know when I'm getting sales pitched biggrin.gif

I mostly need the room correction for my two 18" subs (front of room / rear of room) to cut down on some room nodes at the listening position, plus a bit on the front L/R LA800's since they are so freakishly massive on their sound output and playing down to 16hz.


A/V Gear: Elite 70" display, Theta CBIIIHD processor, Theta Intrepid amplifier, Oppo 95 BD, BG Radia LA800 mains, BG Radia CC400 center, four BG Radia R18i surrounds, dual 18" Bag End Infrasubs, two Fuhrman P1800PF AVRs, Synergistic Silver Reference active cables & interconnects. 

k_lewis is offline  
post #191 of 234 Old 10-31-2012, 10:04 AM
Senior Member
 
k_lewis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Beverly Hills 90210
Posts: 493
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by RUR View Post

Plenty of folks believe that the company provides no objectively demonstrable audible benefit. Caveat emptor.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1336902/how-do-i-verify-or-debunk-the-claims-of-the-upgrade-company
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1198719/the-upgrade-company-component-mods
Plenty of similar discussion on other audio fora.

Hence the return policy. I would only appreciate opinion of those who have actually purchased / demo'd one of the modded units or worked with the vendor in question, and, have a system of equal or greater quality than mine. Edorr's opinion is appreciated since he has direct experience to share. Otherwise the opinion carries zero weight / waste of electrons. You can subjectively argue all day long about the quality of internal components affecting the resulting output audio quality of a given device (especially when your argument is based on other people's posts). Example, is Theta providing any appreciable benefit by Modding an Oppo95 into a Compli Blue 3D? Why replace the Oppo 95 digital output section, or power supply, if it's all just same / same? Sounds good to me, from what I have personally investigated with Theta directly. Others ("folks") may say otherwise. I don't speak for them. There are merits to internal upgrades if done correctly, and "results" in your system can be good or poor based on the rest of the components in the audio chain. I see a lot of complainers shoot down equipment while testing on low or mid-end speakers and low or midrange amps / transports, and even using cables from ebay or the other discount cable places online. Expectations should be adjusted accordingly.

Since you cite zero positive examples (which I'm sure there are, otherwise this person would not be in business as long as they have), you're simply on a bashing run and have nothing intelligent to contribute. I've already seen those threads / old news.


A/V Gear: Elite 70" display, Theta CBIIIHD processor, Theta Intrepid amplifier, Oppo 95 BD, BG Radia LA800 mains, BG Radia CC400 center, four BG Radia R18i surrounds, dual 18" Bag End Infrasubs, two Fuhrman P1800PF AVRs, Synergistic Silver Reference active cables & interconnects. 

k_lewis is offline  
post #192 of 234 Old 10-31-2012, 10:06 AM
AVS Special Member
 
edorr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,469
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by k_lewis View Post

Thanks for the input and ideas- Not sure how the setup was plugged together, this was not my system. Perhaps it was a volume control sync using integrated macros. Audio was coming from SPDIF and not HDMI. I can only tell you that it worked fine stating this as the listener / observer.

If you are seriously considering this, you would have to figure out how this was set-up. I just don't see how you can integrate the GenVIII with the an Integra SSP with Multi Channel. The S/DIF output will not give you the full bandwidth signal for BluRay sources. Also, a S/DIF input into the GenVIII would have to be two channel PCM. How do you get the other 4 channels digitally into the Integra at the same time? Complete mystery to me....
Quote:
Originally Posted by k_lewis View Post

When I spoke with the vendor at **************, he did not seem to be hyping the newest gear- he could very easily have suggested I send him my CBIII for further modding, but did not think it was worthwhile and that the Integra 80.3 or equivalent Onkyo model (essentially same guts in different chassis), would be a better bang for the buck especially considering recoup costs of selling the CBIIIHD. He was totally keen on using the GenVIII and did not try to sell me anything on that / dissuade me. He seemed rather legit- I know when I'm getting sales pitched biggrin.gif

My issue with David is he is willing to tell you the Integra/Onkyo is equivalent to the Theta CBIII as a base platform for his mods without any basis for this claim. I'm pretty sure he never heard the two side by side. This is consistent with my experience with him. He has all sorts of very strong opnions about stuff he has never actually heard. Keep in mind that to my knowledge he does not actually change any hardware components, powersupplies etc. He "shields" stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by k_lewis View Post

I mostly need the room correction for my two 18" subs (front of room / rear of room) to cut down on some room nodes at the listening position, plus a bit on the front L/R LA800's since they are so freakishly massive on their sound output and playing down to 16hz.

If you need four channels of room correction the Trinnov + digi out card would do the trick. You could run L/R/Sub1/Sub2 through it, or L/R/C/MonoSub. I did the latter for a while (I had Avalons + 2 x JL113 subs) with great results. Theta / Trinnov volume control integration would work very well with iRule macros.
edorr is offline  
post #193 of 234 Old 10-31-2012, 10:25 AM
RUR
Innocent Bystander
 
RUR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: California Republic
Posts: 2,378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 141 Post(s)
Liked: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by k_lewis View Post

Since you cite zero positive examples (which I'm sure there are, otherwise this person would not be in business as long as they have)....
That's a deeply flawed perspective, if I may say so.
Quote:
...you're simply on a bashing run and have nothing intelligent to contribute.
I'm sorry you think so. But, it's your money and that's that.
RUR is offline  
post #194 of 234 Old 10-31-2012, 10:35 AM
Senior Member
 
k_lewis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Beverly Hills 90210
Posts: 493
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by RUR View Post

That's a deeply flawed perspective, if I may say so.

Waste of more electrons. I saw some of your posts in your previously suggested threads. You have zero experience with any of this, so essentially as far as this subject goes, you seem to have a lot to say about nothing. I did note that every time a person who did an upgrade posted something positive, you were there to bash them. It would seem you work for a competing service or vendor, so please take your agenda elsewhere. You are off topic here. My perspectives may always appear flawed to those less mentally capable. not a big deal.


A/V Gear: Elite 70" display, Theta CBIIIHD processor, Theta Intrepid amplifier, Oppo 95 BD, BG Radia LA800 mains, BG Radia CC400 center, four BG Radia R18i surrounds, dual 18" Bag End Infrasubs, two Fuhrman P1800PF AVRs, Synergistic Silver Reference active cables & interconnects. 

k_lewis is offline  
post #195 of 234 Old 10-31-2012, 10:44 AM
Senior Member
 
k_lewis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Beverly Hills 90210
Posts: 493
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

If you are seriously considering this, you would have to figure out how this was set-up. I just don't see how you can integrate the GenVIII with the an Integra SSP with Multi Channel. The S/DIF output will not give you the full bandwidth signal for BluRay sources. Also, a S/DIF input into the GenVIII would have to be two channel PCM. How do you get the other 4 channels digitally into the Integra at the same time? Complete mystery to me....
My issue with David is he is willing to tell you the Integra/Onkyo is equivalent to the Theta CBIII as a base platform for his mods without any basis for this claim. I'm pretty sure he never heard the two side by side. This is consistent with my experience with him. He has all sorts of very strong opnions about stuff he has never actually heard. Keep in mind that to my knowledge he does not actually change any hardware components, powersupplies etc. He "shields" stuff.
If you need four channels of room correction the Trinnov + digi out card would do the trick. You could run L/R/Sub1/Sub2 through it, or L/R/C/MonoSub. I did the latter for a while (I had Avalons + 2 x JL113 subs) with great results. Theta / Trinnov volume control integration would work very well with iRule macros.

Awesome- Great input, thanks. I will definitely take your expressed concerns under advisement- I too was a bit surprised on claims, but hey if you're the owner of a company are you not going to talk good about your product? lol. The only thing that got me thinking, was actually listening AB to the 80.3 vs a CBIIIHD. I could see how a (properly) modded 80.3 could achieve better results, but of course that is the analytical / engineering brain in me talking. There is some merit to proper shielding as well, but all by itself without actual component mods? Questionable. But, it is a relatively low risk to try it (curiosity)- most it will cost me is the price of shipping it back.

The Trinnov suggestion is very good- I'll look further into it. I will also find out how the GenVIII was hooked up.


A/V Gear: Elite 70" display, Theta CBIIIHD processor, Theta Intrepid amplifier, Oppo 95 BD, BG Radia LA800 mains, BG Radia CC400 center, four BG Radia R18i surrounds, dual 18" Bag End Infrasubs, two Fuhrman P1800PF AVRs, Synergistic Silver Reference active cables & interconnects. 

k_lewis is offline  
post #196 of 234 Old 10-31-2012, 10:53 AM
AVS Special Member
 
edorr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,469
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by k_lewis View Post

Awesome- Great input, thanks. I will definitely take your expressed concerns under advisement- I too was a bit surprised on claims, but hey if you're the owner of a company are you not going to talk good about your product? lol. The only thing that got me thinking, was actually listening AB to the 80.3 vs a CBIIIHD. I could see how a (properly) modded 80.3 could achieve better results, but of course that is the analytical / engineering brain in me talking. There is some merit to proper shielding as well, but all by itself without actual component mods? Questionable. But, it is a relatively low risk to try it (curiosity)- most it will cost me is the price of shipping it back.
The Trinnov suggestion is very good- I'll look further into it.

Case in point. I owned a McCormack MAP1 MCH analog preamp. David @ TUC assured me his modded Onkyo (855) would beat is as an analog preamp. I tried and sure enough it did. +1 TUC. I then acquired a Theta with Six Shooter and the Six Shooter trounced the modded Onkyo (very predicatably). This was categorically impossible according to David, and what I needed to do is spend $400 on 8 audiophile fuses (which he sells) in the Onkyo. Yeah right.

I also owned an Audio Note DAC modded by him, which was bested by the Xtreme DACs in my CBIII. Again, he claimed his modded DAC trounces anything south of $10K DACs. So botttom line, some of his mods work, some better than others, and he is a respectable businessman (he will not screw you), but his claims can be so outlandish I stay away from him. I spend over $5K on a few mods and two pieces of equipment with him.
edorr is offline  
post #197 of 234 Old 10-31-2012, 10:56 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Steve Bruzonsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
Posts: 17,668
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Did the CB3 HD have the new latest digi out card or the 12+ years old digi out card? Makes a difference.

I had an Integra SSP analog out into my Theta CB3 Six Shooter for some time, until I upgraded to the CB3 HD (and added a Gen VIII) in April 2011.
Even not using the Gen VIII DAC, using only the Extreme DACs, my system on movies sounded clearly better, as an all digital system without
using the Six Shooter - Integra combo.

Sure I've "heard" from folks that tne newer Integra SSPs are better. But that much better? I doubt it and am not interested in trying it.

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
Steve Bruzonsky is offline  
post #198 of 234 Old 10-31-2012, 11:13 AM
Senior Member
 
k_lewis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Beverly Hills 90210
Posts: 493
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

Did the CB3 HD have the new latest digi out card or the 12+ years old digi out card? Makes a difference.
I had an Integra SSP analog out into my Theta CB3 Six Shooter for some time, until I upgraded to the CB3 HD (and added a Gen VIII) in April 2011.
Even not using the Gen VIII DAC, using only the Extreme DACs, my system on movies sounded clearly better, as an all digital system without
using the Six Shooter - Integra combo.
Sure I've "heard" from folks that tne newer Integra SSPs are better. But that much better? I doubt it and am not interested in trying it.

Steve- Thanks for the input and feedback. Interesting that you used the Six Shooter with the Integra- How did you control the volume level and channel trims in the SS, was the SS still being controlled by a CBIII? I swear, I would not even be considering this line of thought if I had not personally heard it for myself. And yes the CBIIIHD did have the single ended digi card and not the new balanced card. I suppose even as much as I love Theta products and have used them for some time now, I'm still rather miffed that I cannot get a high end SSP with RC built in unless I jump ship and go with another brand- and of course at that point I will probably be missing the musical quality of the CBIIIHD, which still has it hands down over other SSP's at any price point (IMHO). Let's face it, doing RC at native 96khz is not rocket science these days, with even low-end processors already doing it for well over a year now. And that seems to be a nut that Theta can't yet crack.


A/V Gear: Elite 70" display, Theta CBIIIHD processor, Theta Intrepid amplifier, Oppo 95 BD, BG Radia LA800 mains, BG Radia CC400 center, four BG Radia R18i surrounds, dual 18" Bag End Infrasubs, two Fuhrman P1800PF AVRs, Synergistic Silver Reference active cables & interconnects. 

k_lewis is offline  
post #199 of 234 Old 10-31-2012, 11:14 AM
Senior Member
 
k_lewis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Beverly Hills 90210
Posts: 493
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

Case in point. I owned a McCormack MAP1 MCH analog preamp. David @ TUC assured me his modded Onkyo (855) would beat is as an analog preamp. I tried and sure enough it did. +1 TUC. I then acquired a Theta with Six Shooter and the Six Shooter trounced the modded Onkyo (very predicatably). This was categorically impossible according to David, and what I needed to do is spend $400 on 8 audiophile fuses (which he sells) in the Onkyo. Yeah right.
I also owned an Audio Note DAC modded by him, which was bested by the Xtreme DACs in my CBIII. Again, he claimed his modded DAC trounces anything south of $10K DACs. So botttom line, some of his mods work, some better than others, and he is a respectable businessman (he will not screw you), but his claims can be so outlandish I stay away from him. I spend over $5K on a few mods and two pieces of equipment with him.

Yep I totally see your point. Thanks again!


A/V Gear: Elite 70" display, Theta CBIIIHD processor, Theta Intrepid amplifier, Oppo 95 BD, BG Radia LA800 mains, BG Radia CC400 center, four BG Radia R18i surrounds, dual 18" Bag End Infrasubs, two Fuhrman P1800PF AVRs, Synergistic Silver Reference active cables & interconnects. 

k_lewis is offline  
post #200 of 234 Old 10-31-2012, 11:27 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Steve Bruzonsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
Posts: 17,668
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by k_lewis View Post

Steve- Thanks for the input and feedback. Interesting that you used the Six Shooter with the Integra- How did you control the volume level and channel trims in the SS, was the SS still being controlled by a CBIII? I swear, I would not even be considering this line of thought if I had not personally heard it for myself. And yes the CBIIIHD did have the single ended digi card and not the new balanced card. I suppose even as much as I love Theta products and have used them for some time now, I'm still rather miffed that I cannot get a high end SSP with RC built in unless I jump ship and go with another brand- and of course at that point I will probably be missing the musical quality of the CBIIIHD, which still has it hands down over other SSP's at any price point (IMHO). Let's face it, doing RC at native 96khz is not rocket science these days, with even low-end processors already doing it for well over a year now. And that seems to be a nut that Theta can't yet crack.

When I had the Integra SSP connected by single ended analog multi-channel to the Six Shooter, I only used the Integra when I played blu rays or HD-DVD discs. I used the CB3 for everything else. The CB3 remote controlled the Integra's volume when used in this manner,
I simply preset the Integra at a certain volume level.

Tyree also did this. Both of us will never go back from the CB3 HD to using an Integra SSP. The Integra SSP was a stop gap measure only.
By the way, I first ditched the Integra SSP a good year prior to my CB3 upgrade to the HD version, when I got the Marantz UD9004 which I used analog out multi-channel straight into the Six Shooter. This killed using the Integra. And next the HD upgrade to the CB3 beat out using the Marantz.

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
Steve Bruzonsky is offline  
post #201 of 234 Old 10-31-2012, 11:34 AM
Senior Member
 
k_lewis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Beverly Hills 90210
Posts: 493
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

When I had the Integra SSP connected by single ended analog multi-channel to the Six Shooter, I only used the Integra when I played blu rays or HD-DVD discs. I used the CB3 for everything else. The CB3 remote controlled the Integra's volume when used in this manner,
I simply preset the Integra at a certain volume level.
Tyree also did this. Both of us will never go back from the CB3 HD to using an Integra SSP. The Integra SSP was a stop gap measure only.
By the way, I first ditched the Integra SSP a good year prior to my CB3 upgrade to the HD version, when I got the Marantz UD9004 which I used analog out multi-channel straight into the Six Shooter. This killed using the Integra. And next the HD upgrade to the CB3 beat out using the Marantz.

Ah, makes sense. Very good to know all of this. What transport are you running now?


A/V Gear: Elite 70" display, Theta CBIIIHD processor, Theta Intrepid amplifier, Oppo 95 BD, BG Radia LA800 mains, BG Radia CC400 center, four BG Radia R18i surrounds, dual 18" Bag End Infrasubs, two Fuhrman P1800PF AVRs, Synergistic Silver Reference active cables & interconnects. 

k_lewis is offline  
post #202 of 234 Old 11-01-2012, 12:04 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Steve Bruzonsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
Posts: 17,668
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by k_lewis View Post

Ah, makes sense. Very good to know all of this. What transport are you running now?

Theta Compli Blu - use primarily for blu ray; and Bryston BDP-1 medial player for music!

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
Steve Bruzonsky is offline  
post #203 of 234 Old 11-10-2012, 05:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Bulldogger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Clinton,MS
Posts: 6,684
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by k_lewis View Post

Looking for some feedback- Getting tired of "waiting" for Theta to get it together and release the Dirac Live upgrade, because my system is at a point whrre I cannot completely dial it in without room correction. I've checked with Theta as recently as last week, and still no firm answer on release date for Dirac.
Have you tried Jriver? You could experiment with the 2 week trial of Dirac Live. You can actually try them both for free as Jriver gives a 30 day free trial. Media Center 18 has "Convolution." where you can use third party software to construct filters. The hometheater market will never be able to keep up with computer advancements. If you just want to play around, you can use your lap top to see what you think and worry about building a server later. http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Convolution Personally, I have come to the point where I don't see the value of waiting for the high-end or buying mega-expensive external processors when you can do it much faster, much cheaper, and over HDMI with a PC. For many Theta owners, this approach may be too much of a hassle. Quite a few, use their installers even if they need to just hook up a new piece of gear.

Never become so involved with something that it blinds you.
Bulldogger is offline  
post #204 of 234 Old 11-10-2012, 06:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Bulldogger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Clinton,MS
Posts: 6,684
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by k_lewis View Post

We did some A-B listening between the 80.3/CBIIIHD for movies and 2ch, and the 80.3 sounded 95% as good as the CBIIIHD for movies, very good for 2ch but of course not as good on the stage or depth in terms of critical listening. But, the video quality was nicer than the CBIII due to the 80.3's scaler. Actually in some respects it sounded better than the CBIIIHD because of the room correction in effect.
We then put a GenVIII S3 into the mix with the GenVIII running L/R and the 80.3 running the remainder. We could not tell a shred of difference between this and using a GenVIII with the CBIII-HD. Identical sound / stage / openness for both movies and 2ch. Quite amazing, really, considering the Integra is slightly more than $2k. It really got me thinking.
The weak point is that the Gen VIII is handicapped by getting a down-rezzed signal from the Casablanca. So if the movie is 24/48 your hearing 24/48 in the Casablanca and the Gen VIII is only getting 16 bits. I"m planning to work around this with Jriver. Jriver can output to two sound cards concurrently. My plan is to output a corrected signal over HDMI into the Casablanca from a server which also has a Lync AES16e card. The Lync AES16e will be used for digital transmission of the front left and right with NO downrez into the Gen VIII. Jriver is decoding DTS MA to PCM. If it works, I will not need the Theta Digi out card for blu-ray,CD and SACD anyway. The question is will there be latency issues. If there are and they are small, I think I can use the "Room Correction" feature of Jriver to get the front left and right in line with the channels I'm playing through the Casablanca.

Never become so involved with something that it blinds you.
Bulldogger is offline  
post #205 of 234 Old 11-10-2012, 08:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
edorr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,469
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

The weak point is that the Gen VIII is handicapped by getting a down-rezzed signal from the Casablanca. So if the movie is 24/48 your hearing 24/48 in the Casablanca and the Gen VIII is only getting 16 bits. I"m planning to work around this with Jriver. Jriver can output to two sound cards concurrently. My plan is to output a corrected signal over HDMI into the Casablanca from a server which also has a Lync AES16e card. The Lync AES16e will be used for digital transmission of the front left and right with NO downrez into the Gen VIII. Jriver is decoding DTS MA to PCM. If it works, I will not need the Theta Digi out card for blu-ray,CD and SACD anyway. The question is will there be latency issues. If there are and they are small, I think I can use the "Room Correction" feature of Jriver to get the front left and right in line with the channels I'm playing through the Casablanca.

Keep in mind that if you run your mains straight into the GenVIII, you do not have access to bass management. This would be a dealbreaker for most.
edorr is offline  
post #206 of 234 Old 11-10-2012, 09:00 AM
Senior Member
 
k_lewis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Beverly Hills 90210
Posts: 493
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

The weak point is that the Gen VIII is handicapped by getting a down-rezzed signal from the Casablanca. So if the movie is 24/48 your hearing 24/48 in the Casablanca and the Gen VIII is only getting 16 bits. I"m planning to work around this with Jriver. Jriver can output to two sound cards concurrently. My plan is to output a corrected signal over HDMI into the Casablanca from a server which also has a Lync AES16e card. The Lync AES16e will be used for digital transmission of the front left and right with NO downrez into the Gen VIII. Jriver is decoding DTS MA to PCM. If it works, I will not need the Theta Digi out card for blu-ray,CD and SACD anyway. The question is will there be latency issues. If there are and they are small, I think I can use the "Room Correction" feature of Jriver to get the front left and right in line with the channels I'm playing through the Casablanca.

Yeh I have built a few ultra high end media PCs over the years- I actually still have a nice Ahanix box that used to run a Lynx AES16 card, used Jriver, etc. Right now it is sitting in it's box in my closet. While the PC advancements are indeed faster than the hardware processor market, using a PC is still too much in "tweaker" territory. There are always glitches and incompatabilities when using a PC as the central controller, some of it due to the nature of Windows being buggy, and some of it being due to hardware / software incompatabilities. Then there is getting everything remote controlled well enough to the point of it being "no hassle" for family to run the system without constant assistance from the local tech guru (me).

I simply don't have the time to constantly massage and update a PC-based media controller, which is why I went with the dedicated hardware route. At this point I am planning on keeping the CBIIIHD and I will give Theta a bit more time to hopefully get the Dirac to market. That is really the only piece I am missing. But thank you for sharing your suggestions BD!


On another topic, I recently picked up a pair of practically brand new Channel Islands Audio D200 monoblocks for a rediculous cheap price. I had to get them if for nothing more than a lark to see what the fuss is about with Dusty's Class D design. I hooked them up to my LA800 Radia's and to my amazement, they drive them harder and cleaner than my Theta Intrepid amp. Larger stage, more detailed. In all fairness, the Intrepid was originally intended to only drive my surrounds and I do realize it is a bit underpowered for the LA800's, but I'm still quite amazed that these two little CIA amps (they are small!) play music like 200lb gorillas. go figure. Am leaving them in for now.


A/V Gear: Elite 70" display, Theta CBIIIHD processor, Theta Intrepid amplifier, Oppo 95 BD, BG Radia LA800 mains, BG Radia CC400 center, four BG Radia R18i surrounds, dual 18" Bag End Infrasubs, two Fuhrman P1800PF AVRs, Synergistic Silver Reference active cables & interconnects. 

k_lewis is offline  
post #207 of 234 Old 11-11-2012, 08:13 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Bulldogger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Clinton,MS
Posts: 6,684
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

Keep in mind that if you run your mains straight into the GenVIII, you do not have access to bass management. This would be a dealbreaker for most.
As you say DEAD WRONG. You don't know what you are talking about. Jriver is handling both "streams" so the output is the same. You can do a bass-management if you choose and you can still send it out over HDMI and and SPDIF at the same time .The Gen VIII would get the high-pass from the Lynx AES16e. The low pass would go out via HDMI and be handled by the Casablanca. Both signals are actually going out over both cards concurrently, for the SPDIF side you are only hooking up the Gen VIII. Stop quoting my post!!! Stop over-analysing my post!! KEEP IN MIND, I'd appreciate it if you would put me on your ignore list.

Never become so involved with something that it blinds you.
Bulldogger is offline  
post #208 of 234 Old 11-11-2012, 08:32 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Bulldogger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Clinton,MS
Posts: 6,684
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by k_lewis View Post

Yeh I have built a few ultra high end media PCs over the years- I actually still have a nice Ahanix box that used to run a Lynx AES16 card, used Jriver, etc. Right now it is sitting in it's box in my closet. While the PC advancements are indeed faster than the hardware processor market, using a PC is still too much in "tweaker" territory. There are always glitches and incompatabilities when using a PC as the central controller, some of it due to the nature of Windows being buggy, and some of it being due to hardware / software incompatabilities. Then there is getting everything remote controlled well enough to the point of it being "no hassle" for family to run the system without constant assistance from the local tech guru (me).
I simply don't have the time to constantly massage and update a PC-based media controller, which is why I went with the dedicated hardware route. At this point I am planning on keeping the CBIIIHD and I will give Theta a bit more time to hopefully get the Dirac to market. That is really the only piece I am missing. But thank you for sharing your suggestions BD!
.
I understand. Fifty bucks for Jriver,10 bucks for Jremote with an Iphone and 1.5k for a server, is not worth the hassle when you can just spend 4k for a much more elegant solution. I'm not being sarcastic. Honestly, I'm not. It's just a simple truth that many miss.

For others, I would suggest they download test tones from Rives Audio or Real Traps, use a cheap Radio Shack analog meter and the calibration file and run sweeps. After you measure the peaks, use the Parametric EQ function of Jriver to cut those frequencies. You do that by adding filters. It's a very cheap way to experiment as to how correcting some the issues in your room would help. You don't have to spend anything more to try this if you have a lap top, some type of sound meter or measuring mike as the Jriver 30 day trial is free. You can of course do this over SPDIF if you are running 2 channel or if you want to do it for Dolby Digital.

Never become so involved with something that it blinds you.
Bulldogger is offline  
post #209 of 234 Old 11-11-2012, 08:39 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Bulldogger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Clinton,MS
Posts: 6,684
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by k_lewis View Post

On another topic, I recently picked up a pair of practically brand new Channel Islands Audio D200 monoblocks for a rediculous cheap price. I had to get them if for nothing more than a lark to see what the fuss is about with Dusty's Class D design. I hooked them up to my LA800 Radia's and to my amazement, they drive them harder and cleaner than my Theta Intrepid amp. Larger stage, more detailed. In all fairness, the Intrepid was originally intended to only drive my surrounds and I do realize it is a bit underpowered for the LA800's, but I'm still quite amazed that these two little CIA amps (they are small!) play music like 200lb gorillas. go figure. Am leaving them in for now.
How is the front to back soundstage, depth? I have not tried those. My past experience with Class D is that is where they usually stumble. "At first glance," you'll miss that. I want to move to digital amps as I am tired of moving those heavy analog amps around. I'm actually thinking about building some of the Hypex N-Core amps to use as surround amps. I am interested in the Prometheus but 250 watts is about half of what I run on my front channels.

Never become so involved with something that it blinds you.
Bulldogger is offline  
post #210 of 234 Old 11-11-2012, 08:54 AM
Senior Member
 
k_lewis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Beverly Hills 90210
Posts: 493
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

I understand. I think that what many miss that many Theta owners are wealthy. Fifty bucks for Jriver,10 bucks for Jremote with an Iphone and 1.5k for a server, is not worth the hassle when you can just spend 4k for a much more elegant solution. I'm not being sarcastic. Honestly, I'm not. It's just a simple truth that many miss.
For others, I would suggest they download test tones from Rives Audio or Real Traps, use a cheap Radio Shack analog meter and the calibration file and run sweeps. After you measure the peaks, use the Parametric EQ function of Jriver to cut those frequencies. You do that by adding filters. It's a very cheap way to experiment as to how correcting some the issues in your room would help. You don't have to spend anything more to try this if you have a lap top, some type of sound meter or measuring mike as the Jriver 30 day trial is free. You can of course do this over SPDIF if you are running 2 channel or if you want to do it for Dolby Digital.

Yep that is all good info- I make regular use of the Rat-Shack meter and test tone discs. Back when I had a lot more free time it was no big deal to build and manage a media PC as the central system controller. I can indeed say that a quality PC build with an AES16 card sounds unbelievably good- But at around $1k for the Lynx sound card, well it better sound good right? biggrin.gif

So now it is more of a cost vs time tradeoff. For me, it is more cost effective to buy the pricey ready made hardware vs spending hours on the DIY route. The last DIY I recently did was building custom, accoustically inert speaker cabinets for my LA800 main speakers and CC400 center speaker. What should have taken me 1 day took me 1.5 weeks to finish. If I had a reasonable option to pay to have the boxes made I would have done so.

If I had a decent amount of free time, I'd probably still be on the HTPC bandwagon as well- It's a good route for those who are technically inclined and want to have high quality sound at a lower price point.


A/V Gear: Elite 70" display, Theta CBIIIHD processor, Theta Intrepid amplifier, Oppo 95 BD, BG Radia LA800 mains, BG Radia CC400 center, four BG Radia R18i surrounds, dual 18" Bag End Infrasubs, two Fuhrman P1800PF AVRs, Synergistic Silver Reference active cables & interconnects. 

k_lewis is offline  
Reply Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off