Theta CB III HD in the house (with my ADA Mach IV)! - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 271 Old 05-08-2012, 08:25 AM - Thread Starter
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I agree. Slopes, are a small thing. I will match the current crossover points. Thanks.

If anyone could send me one, I'd appreciateis a 6 shooter.
My cables are on the way!

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post #92 of 271 Old 05-08-2012, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I agree. Slopes, are a small thing. I will match the current crossover points. Thanks.

If anyone could send me one, I'd appreciateis a 6 shooter.
My cables are on the way!

The slopes are very important in a set-up like yours. You have extremely powerful subs but much less capable sats. Running those sats within as ideal a range as possible will give you the most dynamic range with the less distortion. I am specifically considering your situation. It will not matter if the ADA can match the slopes of the Casablanca and if you don't steep of slopes. Crossover types matter too but not so much.

The suggestion for a Six Shooter is not well thought through. You are running 8 channel and the Six Shooter is ONLY 6 channels. Therefore you need 2 Six Shooter to cover 8 channels. Ideally you need the first one set to cover channels 1-6 and the jumper in the second one set to handle the 7-12 channels. That's a major hassle. You can get around the need to set the second Six Shooter by using the level controls of the ADA to some extent. That's just too much to ask for what you are doing?? You need 16 XLR between the two processors, and 2 cheap rca interconnects between the Casablanca into the first 6 shooter and the second rca into the other Six Shooter. I sold both of my Six Shooters and all of those cables. The sound was great but I could clearly see the future at Theta was digital.

It would be nice to know what kind of slope you are using. The adjustments of the QSC could tell you if you needed a steeper slope than the ADA is providing.

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post #93 of 271 Old 05-08-2012, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

If anyone could send me one, I'd appreciateis a 6 shooter.

I would send you mine, but I am still using it. Keep in mind you would need extra cables as well. If you run 5.1, you need 3 x 3 pairs of XLR's. 1 x ADA to SS, 1 x CBIII to SS, and 1 x SS to poweramps.

Even more fun would be to run a Marantz UD9004 into the third SS input (#2), and have a three way, triple blind shoot out, especially on SACD.
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post #94 of 271 Old 05-08-2012, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

The suggestion for a Six Shooter is not well thought through. You are running 8 channel and the Six Shooter is ONLY 6 channels. Therefore you need 2 Six Shooter to cover 8 channels.

I mentioned that myself. Obviously in 7.1 mode you would need a 2nd six shooter. You would do the shootout in 5.1 mode. This double blind would still be far more reliable than having to swap cables, have 10 minute interval, and actually know what you are listening to.
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post #95 of 271 Old 05-08-2012, 08:07 PM
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Just a passing opinion, but if you "really" want to test and see how it stacks up against your current SSP, would having someone who is familiar in the correct setup of the Theta unit be more prudent?

As we have seen so many times with comparisons of any audio gear, incorrect setup will always result in disappointment. I don't see this comparison changing anything the way it is going.

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post #96 of 271 Old 05-09-2012, 03:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Just a passing opinion, but if you "really" want to test and see how it stacks up against your current SSP, would having someone who is familiar in the correct setup of the Theta unit be more prudent?

As we have seen so many times with comparisons of any audio gear, incorrect setup will always result in disappointment. I don't see this comparison changing anything the way it is going.

I'm not opposed to anyone helping out. I'm hoping to get to programming a single input this weekend. I'll post questions as I go through the manual. But anyone nearby who wants to get Hands on is certainly welcome to come by.

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post #97 of 271 Old 05-09-2012, 06:11 AM
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I'm not opposed to anyone helping out. I'm hoping to get to programming a single input this weekend. I'll post questions as I go through the manual. But anyone nearby who wants to get Hands on is certainly welcome to come by.

I would not worry about it too much. Setting up a CBIII is not overly complicated, and you can always ask the forum for help. Given that there is no room correction involved, the chances of setting it up incorrectly and getting subpar results are minimal in my estimation.
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post #98 of 271 Old 05-09-2012, 01:48 PM
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This is a great thread.

Whatever the outcome of the test (especially if they are close) I am sure people will claim it is not valid due to cables/speakers/setup/room not being good enough to hear the Theta's sonic benefits over the ADA.

Also Jeff, are you using a $3k power cord? If not the sound stage is ruined I have been told.
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post #99 of 271 Old 05-09-2012, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm aware. I'm not expecting any true differences as I think all SSPs after a certain price point sound alike. You simply get more or less features. I expect running the ADA with my 48/16 DACs will beat the Theta soundly when running on its own. I do also want to e sluatung the speed of surround steering as well as dynamic range when i push both pieces past reference level. I'm planning on having some notable evaluators if all works out. I'm most interested in what I think but I know others aren't!

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post #100 of 271 Old 05-09-2012, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I'm aware. I'm not expecting any true differences as I think all SSPs after a certain price point sound alike. You simply get more or less features. I expect running the ADA with my 48/16 DACs will beat the Theta soundly when running on its own. I do also want to e sluatung the speed of surround steering as well as dynamic range when i push both pieces past reference level. I'm planning on having some notable evaluators if all works out. I'm most interested in what I think but I know others aren't!

Can anyone believe this demo is worth "watching" or "listening" for?
That's what The Bland is all about, "features". Its never about the music!

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post #101 of 271 Old 05-09-2012, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by edorr View Post

I would not worry about it too much. Setting up a CBIII is not overly complicated, and you can always ask the forum for help. Given that there is no room correction involved, the chances of setting it up incorrectly and getting subpar results are minimal in my estimation.

It doesn't matter how he sets it up, how long he burns it in, whether his ears are full of wax for the CB3 HD demo and clear for the ADA. His "findings" will be the same. Neil Sinclair should have given him a free CB3 years ago and the goodwill and good press from The Bland would have been sensational!

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post #102 of 271 Old 05-09-2012, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Neil Sinclair would likely own the company if he'd asked for help!!

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post #103 of 271 Old 05-09-2012, 04:03 PM
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Neil Sinclair would likely own the company if he'd asked for help!!

You mean if he gave you the "free" CB3 and your wife gave him PR advise!

I think Neil did both himself and us Theta luvers a big favor when he sold to Morris Kessler and ATI, when he had "offshore" offers from China.

Morris has the assets and manufacturing capability to consolidate Theta into ATI, buy B&K as a lower priced line, and actually keep Theta going better than ever, even over your years of catcalling Theta (and for a good year or two, I actually thought you would turn out to be right). Morris is likely the only one who could have pulled this off.

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post #104 of 271 Old 05-09-2012, 04:27 PM - Thread Starter
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I'll be the judge of that when I demo this reference Extreme piece.

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post #105 of 271 Old 05-09-2012, 07:53 PM
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I'll be the judge of that when I demo this reference Extreme piece.

What are you waiting for? It's not complicated to plug it in and use it.

I fully expect this to be a total waste of time on our part. We all know the result before you even start. ADA WooHoo...Theta Sucks. Those who don't learn from History are doomed to repeat their mistakes. And your History has ALWAYS been Anti-Theta.
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post #106 of 271 Old 05-09-2012, 09:34 PM
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What are you waiting for? It's not complicated to plug it in and use it.

I fully expect this to be a total waste of time on our part. We all know the result before you even start. ADA WooHoo...Theta Sucks. Those who don't learn from History are doomed to repeat their mistakes. And your History has ALWAYS been Anti-Theta.

For a solid year The Bland essentially was "kicked" off the official Theta thread because his doomsaying turned out to be wrong. Now some "fool" lets him demo a CB3 HD thinking The Bland will give it a fair shake.
#1, the sound in his room sucks, for when someone repeatedly tells you that his room sounds great for movies but not so good for music, give me a break!! Bulldogger, me and others know how to have a theater room that still sounds really good on music and well as movies.

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post #107 of 271 Old 05-10-2012, 01:16 AM
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This is a great thread.

Whatever the outcome of the test (especially if they are close) I am sure people will claim it is not valid due to cables/speakers/setup/room not being good enough to hear the Theta's sonic benefits over the ADA.

Also Jeff, are you using a $3k power cord? If not the sound stage is ruined I have been told.

Not 3000.00 power cords. It's the 300 hundred dollars per speaker that I have found a limitation. Those are the real reason that all processors sound the same in his system. Honestly, I agree with him. He's not likely to hear any advantage to having a 20K processor vs a 6K model. Yamaha speakers are not really known for their resolution. He has powerful great quality subs and they are the only components not limited by his auxiliary components. So sure EQ, will be of huge benefit with such a system.

Really the expensive processors seem foolish. Personally,i believe he would be better served by buying an Integra and not spending 10K on outboard Trinnov but investing that money in some higher quality speakers.

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post #108 of 271 Old 05-10-2012, 03:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jim HTPC View Post

What are you waiting for? It's not complicated to plug it in and use it.

I fully expect this to be a total waste of time on our part. We all know the result before you even start. ADA WooHoo...Theta Sucks. Those who don't learn from History are doomed to repeat their mistakes. And your History has ALWAYS been Anti-Theta.

I had to order XLR cables as mine are too buried into my chases and we bought a place up north and my weekends have there (like last weekend). I'm excited to get going.

I'll be honest with my thoughts even though I'm biased against any SSP at this price. It is unnecessarily expensive for what it does.

That said, I'm working on get a few unbiased AVS observers in on things to get their thoughts. it'll be fun. Can't wait to see how the $26,000 leviathan stacks up.

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post #109 of 271 Old 05-10-2012, 07:08 AM
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I'll be honest with my thoughts even though I'm biased against any SSP at this price. It is unnecessarily expensive for what it does.

"There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009 "

Your AVS signature for several years now says it all, doesn't it?

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post #110 of 271 Old 05-10-2012, 07:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

"There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009 "

Your AVS signature for several years now says it all, doesn't it?

Yep. Per my sig, full disclosure (but my sig is really for Bulldogger rallying against op amps).

But I still want to know. I've been doing this long enough to understand that if I go through the process of trying something out and it gives me a tick up on performance, I'll buy it. Tried the CBII - didn't do it for me. I really want to know what it's all about here with the Theta. You gotta have balls charging this price for an older design / DACs. I'm soon going to be crystal clear on what the CB III HD is all about. Then, it will be over.

I will say this, the build is quite substantial.

Look at my history, I buy a lot of gear.

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Yep. Per my sig, full disclosure (but my sig is really for Bulldogger rallying against op amps).


Look at my history, I buy a lot of gear.

Historically you hate Theta. Is DougWinsor your twin?

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post #112 of 271 Old 05-10-2012, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Historically you hate Theta. Is DougWinsor your twin?

My 'hate' for Theta has been more diversionary fun than anything else. It's just equipment.

Look at my old posts when I railed against Oppo... Then they asked me to beta test their upcoming Blu Ray player knowing I blasted their DVD players... and now I am a very happy owner!! A lot of risk on their part having me test one. But in the end, it was a great product!

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post #113 of 271 Old 05-10-2012, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

"There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009 "

Your AVS signature for several years now says it all, doesn't it?

You [edit] or someone else already pointed that out, whatever it's supposed to mean.

Now would you guys please lay off the sniping at Jeff (who is to be commended for not responding in kind)?

Rather than harp on Jeff's bias, why not wait until he actually reports on his findings and then respond?

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post #114 of 271 Old 05-10-2012, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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You are someone else already pointed that out, whatever it's supposed to mean.

Now would you guys please lay off the sniping at Jeff (who is to be commended for not responding in kind)?

Rather than harp on Jeff's bias, why not wait until he actually reports on his findings and then respond?

Thanks Noah. I've got the piece, I'm going to demo it against my ADA as fairly as possible. I'm going to give my opinion. But for fun, there will be a number of AVS members, too. SHould be a fun time.

I'm thinking

1. War of the Worlds - simply for dynamics
2. Lord of the Rings Balrog scene (as Gandolf's voice can get lost in all the intense sound at -0)
3. Queen Live in Montreal - try the music modes
4. MI4 - Great 7.1 sound with a lot of impressive steering effects.

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post #115 of 271 Old 05-10-2012, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

You are someone else already pointed that out, whatever it's supposed to mean.

Now would you guys please lay off the sniping at Jeff (who is to be commended for not responding in kind)?

Rather than harp on Jeff's bias, why not wait until he actually reports on his findings and then respond?

Who made you the hall monitor?

Jeff would be very, very disappointed and probably wouldn't even do the demo if there was no "sniping" in this thread. Jeff thrives on "sniping"!

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post #116 of 271 Old 05-11-2012, 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Thanks Noah. I've got the piece, I'm going to demo it against my ADA as fairly as possible. I'm going to give my opinion. But for fun, there will be a number of AVS members, too. SHould be a fun time.

I'm thinking

1. War of the Worlds - simply for dynamics
2. Lord of the Rings Balrog scene (as Gandolf's voice can get lost in all the intense sound at -0)
3. Queen Live in Montreal - try the music modes
4. MI4 - Great 7.1 sound with a lot of impressive steering effects.

Jeff would you mind terribly if you added "Thor" (Ice Giants battle) & "Iron Man 2" (Final battle) please.

Thanks mate

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post #117 of 271 Old 05-11-2012, 03:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Jeff would you mind terribly if you added "Thor" (Ice Giants battle) & "Iron Man 2" (Final battle) please.

Thanks mate

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ABOUT THE COMPARISON

I can get Thor... I didn't see Iron Man 2. Thanks!

My cabling will be here Monday. Then I can set up and disconnect my ADA for a few weeks.

At first I'm going to run the CB III HD with my QSC DACs as I'm afraid of any SSP without DSP correction . But when I get time next week, I'll defeat the QSCs for a couple movies and see how things sound with out any room correction and compare.

At this point, I am thinking June 9 for a shoot out for a couple of reasons.

1. I'm having UMR (Jeff Meier) coming to set up my PEQ on June 6. That's a big job and then I will retire my QSC DACs. That said, I will keep the QSC DSP-30 for my subs. I will run the THETA Sub out through my QSC for all tests!

2. I will have Jeff verify levels in the Theta (and ADA) so things are fully level matched prior to testing and have him recommend crossovers and slopes.

3. When I compare SSPs, I will compare the Theta against the ADA with PEQ engaged and with it disengaged. Engaging/disengaging is fast and simple via software. I believe you can do so in real time as well.

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post #118 of 271 Old 05-11-2012, 03:54 AM
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ABOUT THE COMPARISON

I can get Thor... I didn't see Iron Man 2. Thanks!

My cabling will be here Monday. Then I can set up and disconnect my ADA for a few weeks.

At first I'm going to run the CB III HD with my QSC DACs as I'm afraid of any SSP without DSP correction . But when I get time next week, I'll defeat the QSCs for a couple movies and see how things sound with out any room correction and compare.

At this point, I am thinking June 9 for a shoot out for a couple of reasons.

1. I'm having UMR (Jeff Meier) coming to set up my PEQ on June 6. That's a big job and then I will retire my QSC DACs. That said, I will keep the QSC DSP-30 for my subs. I will run the THETA Sub out through my QSC for all tests!

2. I will have Jeff verify levels in the Theta (and ADA) so things are fully level matched prior to testing and have him recommend crossovers and slopes.

3. When I compare SSPs, I will compare the Theta against the ADA with PEQ engaged and with it disengaged. Engaging/disengaging is fast and simple via software. I believe you can do so in real time as well.

So you are already planning to keep the ADA. The comparison is only to prove the ADA is better. Waste of everyone's time.

Never become so involved with something that it blinds you.
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post #119 of 271 Old 05-11-2012, 04:03 AM - Thread Starter
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I never planned to ditch the ADA. The Thera is the challenger in my theater. Now if the Theta comes up aces, I'll reconsider my ADA. But the Theta has to prove its better.

This only a comparison. I'm going to set things up as equal as possible. The best test will be Theta and ADA with no PEQ or DSPs. Just SSP vs SSP.

I have other viewers coming and they can post what they hear - even if they prefer the Theta. This, to me, is simply a comparison and will be set up so no piece has an advantage. The best SSP will win. I'll have listeners vote.

You're welcome to attend... (if you dare)!

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post #120 of 271 Old 05-11-2012, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post


You're welcome to attend... (if you dare)!

A year and a half ago, I would have been interested. Now, I am waiting to hear the new dacs with Dirac Live. PEQ, that's like last century tech and I am completely uninterested in that. My set-up is going to include at least one Gen 8, the new Digi out card, and Dirac live. None of which you have.

Never become so involved with something that it blinds you.
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