Cedia demo worth seeing/hearing - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 08-07-2012, 02:54 PM - Thread Starter
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At the Westin, Governor's suite (suite number 325) XTX group shall be demoing their wares.

XTX Group is a startup founded by the owner of Bormann Marketing (commercial/pro sound rep-firm), Jon Bormann.

Here are some broad-strokes:

Fully active crossovers
DSP built-in amplifiers
Line Array technology
Loudspeakers produced by Innovox audio (special design)
Sealed Cabinets
Fully custom-built ; as-in project to project- think along the lines of a build-to-order loudspeaker/audio system
Vertically integrated: speakers, amps, processors, acoustics consultation, room design, etc.
Some of the best names in the Pro Sound industry are partners:
Innovox Audio
Lab Gruppen
Rational Acoustics
Whirlwind
SurgeX


Here's what I know about the system being demonstrated:
7.x (several subs used for LFE/ full range duties; 12" and 18")
135" 1.78 aspect Stewart Microperf Studiotek 130 screen
ProjectionDesign F32 projector
8x32 DSP array
fully active

I've heard the XTX prototypes in my demo room and was rather impressed with not only the musicality and depth of soundstage, but also the sheer output capability. Our demo came the day after there was a day-long demo at the Copernicus Theater in Chicago for Innovox products; and I listened to ONE of their line arrays fill that theater (single speaker unit) and do so musically!

This is a system that is going to turn heads as it moves on; this is the beginning of something pretty special. I encourage all attendees to pay a visit to the suite at the Westin, and to visit booth 2348 registered to XTX group and Peavey electronics.

Here's a link to the website for XTX group:

www.xtxgroup.com


For those that visit the suite, please post feedback here- I'd love to hear your opinions.

Dan

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post #2 of 22 Old 08-10-2012, 09:05 AM
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Well Dan, I do appreciate the heads up and I'll make it a point to check it out.

Thank you

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post #3 of 22 Old 08-10-2012, 10:15 PM - Thread Starter
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You're welcome!

I'd like to add that you're in for a treat; I'm expecting some pretty nice audio and video demo material (not that I may have had some hand in the selection.)

Hopefully, my schedule allows for me to attend.

Dan

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post #4 of 22 Old 08-11-2012, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

You're welcome!
I'd like to add that you're in for a treat; I'm expecting some pretty nice audio and video demo material (not that I may have had some hand in the selection.)
Hopefully, my schedule allows for me to attend.
Dan

I spent some time probing around, examining the products offered up in the link you provided,...interesting stuff. I like their hierarchy of importance, and the overall approach used. Additionally, nice robust, sealed subwoofage, sweet.

Yeah, sounds good. I'm quite familiar with that room, as it's used for a small, private after-party function I attend annually. It's not that big, but big enough to be quite similar to many residential environments. Relatively low ceiling (hopefully well served by the line arrays) and perhaps 15 feet wide by well over double that in the long dimension. So, seemingly a great choice and environment dimensionally. It's always refreshing to see significant effort put forth to acquire a decent acoustic space for gear demonstration. The sound rooms at the Cedia show floor a decent, however they're not without their issues and they've got operational constraints. The premise is fantastic, and a wonderful (yet accidental) benefit is the boundaries pass some of the LF/ULF, yet retain the range above. That's great going outbound, but inbound energy from the next exhibitor can be problematic. I digress...

My point being it's great that this demo is in a very realistic environment, not unlike a typical residence audio room/HT.


Quote:
For those that visit the suite, please post feedback here- I'd love to hear your opinions.
Dan

Will do.

Thanks

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post #5 of 22 Old 08-14-2012, 06:40 PM
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XTX is in the same city as Audio Control.

Mike Miles

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post #6 of 22 Old 08-15-2012, 05:27 PM
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Errrrr....

Symetrix, a XTX partner and DSP engine, in in Mountain Lake Terrace WA like Audio Control.

My bad.

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post #7 of 22 Old 08-15-2012, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Currently, the official XTX showroom is in the Minneapolis area. Since Bormann Marketing handles distribution of XTX, and Innovox is also located in that area- it makes sense. I have a feeling that there will be some additional locations for demo systems after CEDIA, as dealers sign-on.

For those interested in attending any of the demos in the suite; I suggest you familiarize yourselves with the following content:

The Art of Flight- absolutely stunning HD video! and bitchin' music to boot!!

Eric Clapton's Crossroads festival 2010- disc2 is particularly good.

The Dark Knight- do I really need to explain this one? In particular the IMAX sections of the movie.

These are the demo materials that I have suggested for XTX to show their capabilities- from subtle, musical passages in the Dark Knight and quieter blues (in particular Buddy Guy, who has this knack for doing so much with such a light touch)- to the over-the-top almost electronica from the Art of Flight. This should prove to be quite the fun ride for those that attend.

It's hard for me to convey what it's like; the sound had a neutrality somewhere between Wilson and Rockport, output that exceeds JBL Synthesis without tearing your head off, and bass from a 12" driver that I've only heard similar quality from the AlumaPro woofers in my CAT towers (the XTX 12s have more output, though).

Also, though Symetrix is a technology partner- because Peavey is sharing booth space and involved with the suite ( I believe through their Media Matrix line and Crest amplification line) the DSP in the demo system is one from Media Matrix.

I thought folks would appreciate the additional information.

Dan

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post #8 of 22 Old 08-16-2012, 08:20 AM
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Yes, the additional information is great. Looking quite forward to the show.

Thanks

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post #9 of 22 Old 08-16-2012, 05:30 PM
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I hope they keep the pro audio pricing model. However they will probably be chomping at the bit when the see what some of the consumer stuff sells for. I'm sure they know already wink.gif

Mike Miles

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post #10 of 22 Old 08-21-2012, 05:46 PM
 
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Miles. you going to Cedia? I'll be there from Tuesday aft through early Saturday night. You know the number and if you can't remember see below. Long time no talk.
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post #11 of 22 Old 08-22-2012, 03:09 PM
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MH, I will be there early Thursday evening leaving Sunday am.

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post #12 of 22 Old 09-05-2012, 10:36 PM - Thread Starter
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So we just finished tuning the room about an hour ago, I think it sounds pretty great!
Display Development projector (avielo) and Stewart microperf screen.

2 sets of fronts
10x 12" subs
2x 18" subs
32 channels amplification.

oppo 95 fed directly into DSP for processor agnosticism (is that even a word?)

I'm typing this from Nicky Blaines cocktail lounge- very cool place.

BTW only one Sam Adams, then I'm off to bed.

Go to the Westin Governor's suite (325); totally worth it !!

Dan

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post #13 of 22 Old 09-06-2012, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

So we just finished tuning the room about an hour ago, I think it sounds pretty great!
Display Development projector (avielo) and Stewart microperf screen.
2 sets of fronts
10x 12" subs
2x 18" subs
32 channels amplification.
oppo 95 fed directly into DSP for processor agnosticism (is that even a word?)
I'm typing this from Nicky Blaines cocktail lounge- very cool place.
BTW only one Sam Adams, then I'm off to bed.
Go to the Westin Governor's suite (325); totally worth it !!
Dan


Dan,
Whoa, late night .... Nicky Blaines is sweet cool.gif

Two sets of fronts, as in demoing two different sets? Interesting, looking quite forward to visiting, ...hopefully today. I'll post up my impression here as soon as time permits, going to be busy until late tonight.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

10x 12" subs, 2x 18" subs, 32 channels amplification

eek.gif Nice

EDIT; couldn't make it today, tomorow (Friday) for sure

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post #14 of 22 Old 09-07-2012, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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I had the pleasure of meeting FOH this morning, and bgarcia was also an early visitor to the XTX suite.
I look forward to hearing their feedback.

Dan

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post #15 of 22 Old 09-08-2012, 07:24 AM
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It was a pleasure Dan, however I assure you, .... the pleasure was all mine.

What a fantastic demonstration, a wonderful environment that ideally conducive to a superb demo. Folks, this system shines, and yes ... as stated, this is a Cedia demo worth seeing and hearing. I'll go into much greater detail given a bit more time (I heading out shortly to return to the show). However, suffice it to say that the finesse and high resolution capability of mating these superb ribbon HF drives to equally capable multiple (4), 4" magnet forward midrange drivers covering the critical range down into the mid 200s, then four 6.5" drives handling the all important octaves between the mids and the subs, ... all subsequently resulting in phenomenal power yet with superb clarity and finesse. Of course these incredible mains were supported by a well optimized array of subwoofers spanning the entire width of the LCR spread. Two 18s and several twelves upfront, and I believe I saw subs in the rear flanking the seating position, .... but they never drew my attention even though I was merely a couple feet from them as I relegated the center on occasion to Curt Hoyt of Trinnov. Together, the two of us enjoy a very nice demo of a variety of material.

Yes, this system approach is a brute force technique, and seemingly limitless dynamics resulted. But what really impressed me was the detail and imaging capability. When listening to a music only track, the vocal nuance and clarity was stunning. The dimensionality the soundstage possessed was wonderfully full and realistic. This imaging and sound-staging capability was highlighted even more upon switching to the next demo which was a great choice for sure, but it lacked the depth and dimensional component of the previous music track. so clearly, the system had a strong ability to resolve such upstream details as source material, etc.

All in all; Great loudspeakers, tons of professional amplification, fantastic and very "domestic like" room with sidewalls far away from the L&R, very pleasant and professional individuals handling the demonstration and stimulating and engaging conversation to boot.

As I conveyed to the XTX representatives, the best audio demo I'd heard at Cedia. I'm coming back for more today.



Highly recommended.

Thanks,
Kevin

(I'd like to discuss these offerings further, more details to come)

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post #16 of 22 Old 09-09-2012, 08:04 PM
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First of all, I would like to extend an enormous thanks to Dan Francis for his assistance in calibrating our demo suite! Obviously based upon some of the reviews that I have had the pleasure to read hear on the forum, he does excellent work.

Kevin, I would like to thank you for the very kind words and excellent review of our product. While we certainly missed some opportunities to expose XTX to more dealers at CEDIA due to our off-site location, it offered us the best environment to showcase our product. Ideally a much narrower room would have provided a better imaging and the ability to move our larger 414 speaker closer to the screen would have provided us with a noticeable performance increase in the demo but you do what you have to do!

Quite frankly, it is very rare that you get to choose the perfect room dimensions and interior decore for optimal sound reproduction, so our demo may have been one of the most realistic application of any manufacturers products at CEDIA. I hope over the next several months to expose our products to additional press for review and will report their thoughts here on the board. Should anyone have questions about our XTX products, please feel free to contact me.

Regards,

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post #17 of 22 Old 09-09-2012, 08:49 PM
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Dan hope the show went great for you and good luck in the future.Hope you come to Canada some day so I can hear it some day.
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post #18 of 22 Old 09-09-2012, 09:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks John, it actually did go quite well for me (Francis Custom Theaters) overall. It appears that we've made an upgrade in the projector dept. for our demo room (DCI is in our future)...so if anyone knows of a good home for a Titan Reference...

I hope to get to Toronto this year, hopefully to work on Joelc's room adding Trinnov in one way or another; maybe even catch a Blackhawks/Leafs game at the same time (that would be cool!, as well as HHOF).

Dan

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post #19 of 22 Old 09-11-2012, 02:11 PM
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Agree with FOH it was great sound for sure.

However I think the pricing model, from what notes I took, was more a WHAT THE MARKET WILL SUPPORT since the will compete with higher priced lines such as JBL Synthesis, Pro Audio Tech (PHC), Genelec etc. Even that said they are still way under the Steinway Lyndorf room that topped $480,000.00 rolleyes.gif

In short I think it could sold for much less and still feed everyone...

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post #20 of 22 Old 09-12-2012, 10:26 AM
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mmiles,

No doubt that we are playing in a very premium price range, and that will relegate our product to a select few. While all of the manufacturers you mentioned build an excellent product with certain attributes that are their claim to fame, few if any of them will truly build a completely custom product for a particular application. Does that make us more valuable than our competitors in the space? Does exclusivity of having a product that is custom built for a particular clients wants and demands merit our prices? I guess only time will tell.

To provide those of you who were unable to hear and see what XTX is bringing to market some perspective on pricing, I will give you an example of what a roughly $220K retail price point buys:

Typically 1-2 on-site consultation visits with you, your client, and acoustician if involved prior to project build
qty. 3 - 441 speakers for L,C, R
qty. 4 - 241 speaker for surround effects
qty. 10 - 112 12" woofers
qty. 2 - 118 18" subwoofers
23 channels of amplification @ almost 30,000 watts of RMS power full range
Complete DSP control per amp channel
Power filtering and protection by SurgeX
Engineering documentation including CAD drawings and wiring diagrams
2-3 days of on-site calibration and configuration of installed system

Not that I don't think our system isn't pretty darn incredible as it is (yes, I get paid to say that!), but one of the ways where we differ from the mentioned competitors is that we will provide you with the same sonic signature in the form of our ConcertBar product line. Anything that will be constructed in that line is using the exact same ribbon used in our 241, a slightly smaller mid and a similar 6 1/2" woofer. As an example, we would be looking at a $15K retail to build a custom 2 channel ConcertBar with a sub and roughly 3400 watts of DSP controllable amplification, which will have all of the same tonal characteristics as our theater system and the client will probably get to enjoy that a heck of a lot more often than his theater system!

For those of you that were generous enough to come by and share your time with us, I wanted to provide you with an interesting update on the ConcertBar. One of the representatives from SH Acoustics wanted to hear the ConcertBar without the subs. After a brief reconfiguration of the DSP we were able to demo the system as a full range solution without the subs. The results were nothing less than impressive. So much so that Jon had to actually physically touch the two 12" drivers to confirm that they were actually off! While the ConcertBar is using a 6 1/2" driver like our main speakers, it is a very different driver that runs all the way down into the low 40Hz range to provide significant low end delivery. While we expected great performance from the driver, it delivered WAY more than we anticipated. While it will never approach the 125dB of sustainable output of our theater system, it will certainly be more than enough to fill any typical sized family room with excellent sound.

Mike
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post #21 of 22 Old 09-12-2012, 06:07 PM
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Agreed it is a ton of line items, DSP, wattage and subs out the butt not to mention some of if not the best sound at the show in an odd room.

I just feel that many, not your firm directly, price products based on what they feel is competitive. Case in point one person told me that we sell the ZULU DELTA PRO PACKAGE MASTER BLASTER in a dumbed down format to another somewhat broader market base for 60% less than our consumer line. It was practically the same device. Name withheld so no PMs or emails please

At $220K you are still 65% less than Steinway Lyndorf.

I think to the right person with an open mind, good ears and no brand prejudice you will have no problem getting your number.

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post #22 of 22 Old 09-13-2012, 03:32 PM
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That is awesome, I will have to come up with a Master Blaster package! Maybe it should have 6 of our 18" subs!!! Thanks for the kinds words about our system. Hopefully people will appreciate what we can deliver while still allowing them to keep a Ferrari in their wallet in comparison to the Steinway wink.gif
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