Official DataSat RS20i thread. (Setup Tips, Questions,General Info, etc) - Page 115 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 03-23-2016, 05:34 AM
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Old 03-23-2016, 05:37 AM
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That's what my google search came back with.

Might have to increase that 3x multiplier for Dts:X Gareth!!

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Old 03-23-2016, 05:50 AM
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Crickey - that's disturbing news! I hope I can at least still get my Atmos card
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Old 03-23-2016, 05:50 AM
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That's what my google search came back with.

Might have to increase that 3x multiplier for Dts:X Gareth!!
Before we all start panicking, I have been told that Datasat has simply closed their UK operation, largely as a result of no longer conducting the commercial cinema work (mastering etc) that used to be done out of there. So I suspect its a voluntary winding up to get out of an expensive lease on the large building they rented that they no longer require, admin staff for the UK operation are now sited within Datasat Communications building I am told.

I will be more concerned if something similar happens with the US operation. Perhaps, someone else can shed some more light on that side of the Atlantic . . .
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Old 03-23-2016, 05:59 AM
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Thx for the clarification Gareth.
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Old 03-23-2016, 06:08 AM
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Thx for the clarification Gareth.
I am just surmising based on what I have been told, and my limited knowledge of the UK business Stephen, so don't know anything as fact at this point.
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Old 03-23-2016, 06:43 AM
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Before we all start panicking, I have been told that Datasat has simply closed their UK operation, largely as a result of no longer conducting the commercial cinema work (mastering etc) that used to be done out of there. So I suspect its a voluntary winding up to get out of an expensive lease on the large building they rented that they no longer require, admin staff for the UK operation are now sited within Datasat Communications building I am told.

I will be more concerned if something similar happens with the US operation. Perhaps, someone else can shed some more light on that side of the Atlantic . . .
I'm aware the Entertainment arm is just one arm of the business and the main business is concerned with Satellite communications and related matters.

But it still seems a massive step to take, to wind the business up, when you've launched the business less than a decade ago (after the Dts commercial arm purchase) and you have a lease on a building?

Unless the entertainment side of operations are so much so based Stateside, that the uk end is wound up and they start again Stateside, same outfit and same people but afresh for business reasons.

I can't see the entertainment arm just disappearing- there's obviously quite a bit going on behind the scenes..we'll have to wait and see how it plays out.

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Old 03-23-2016, 07:40 AM
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I'm aware the Entertainment arm is just one arm of the business and the main business is concerned with Satellite communications and related matters.

But it still seems a massive step to take, to wind the business up, when you've launched the business less than a decade ago (after the Dts commercial arm purchase) and you have a lease on a building?

Unless the entertainment side of operations are so much so based Stateside, that the uk end is wound up and they start again Stateside, same outfit and same people but afresh for business reasons.

I can't see the entertainment arm just disappearing- there's obviously quite a bit going on behind the scenes..we'll have to wait and see how it plays out.
As I understand it Asif, all the hardware units sold in the UK get shipped from the states and have done for some time, probably even since the start, thats where all the hardware development takes places also I believe. When I visited the Datasat building in the UK, the majority of what they did there was the commercial mastering/editing with just some marketing/storage for the domestic hardware side. So I think yeah, the US is the main centre of their operations in effect - that will no doubt be held within a separate US corporation to the UK company, and so hopefully (providing its still making money) should be able to carry on, business as usual.
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Old 03-23-2016, 07:49 AM
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I guess that bringing out dts-x upgrade (soonish) will be a good show of their commitment to the market. I know Steve is working hard at it and they have been actively designing a very comprehensive piece, if they come out with a 32 channel dirac unison machine they will reach new heights again.
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Old 03-23-2016, 08:11 AM
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I will be more concerned if something similar happens with the US operation. Perhaps, someone else can shed some more light on that side of the Atlantic . . .
I no longer have any insight into the inner workings at Datasat, but I can tell you that the US-based company, Datasat Digital Entertainment, Inc., has always been the "main" operation - the R&D, product development, engineering, QA, main warehouse and admin teams are in California, and the bulk of the actual product manufacturing was also done in California. The UK office was acquired as part of Datasat's acquisition of DTS Digital Cinema, and served as a headquarters for European sales (for both cinema and consumer hardware). Plus they had that really nice screening room, it'd be a shame to see that go.

The fact that the company's ownership was UK-based made the UK office more central to the operation than it had been in the DTS days, but the folks who actually design and build the products have always been (and still are) in Southern California.
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Old 03-23-2016, 11:05 AM
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As I understand it Asif, all the hardware units sold in the UK get shipped from the states and have done for some time, probably even since the start, thats where all the hardware development takes places also I believe. When I visited the Datasat building in the UK, the majority of what they did there was the commercial mastering/editing with just some marketing/storage for the domestic hardware side. So I think yeah, the US is the main centre of their operations in effect - that will no doubt be held within a separate US corporation to the UK company, and so hopefully (providing its still making money) should be able to carry on, business as usual.
Despite Neils post, I don't think there's anything to worry about. It's obviously a strategic decision to serve the overall business better, which in the current economic climate would make absolute sense.

If a 32 channel datasat piece makes it to the market, I hope the faithful Rs20i owners are offered an upgrade path

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Old 03-23-2016, 11:25 AM
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I would like to see upgradable dacs like the theta.

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Old 03-23-2016, 12:59 PM
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If a 32 channel datasat piece makes it to the market, I hope the faithful Rs20i owners are offered an upgrade path
It would be nice if that were to be the case, but I wouldn't hold your breath!
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Old 03-23-2016, 01:07 PM
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I wonder if one could contact "Anthony Harry Hyams" and a deal on any of the gear in the screening room?

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Old 03-23-2016, 01:18 PM
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I would like to see upgradable dacs like the theta.
Personally I think that's largely pointless in a home theatre setting. I would challenge anyone to be able to tell what DAC's are being used in the middle of a movie with images on screen and 16 channels firing! Especially where they are already as well implemented as they are in the RS20i.

Fine if the processor is doubling as a stereo system, but even then I'd still rather utilise the digital outputs into the stereo DAC of my choice.

I'd much rather they created additional flexibility into any new unit, such as being able to utilise any Atmos or DTS:X channels of choice up to the full channel count of the unit, give unlimited options for channel down mixing such as those mentioned on the QSC units above, allow Dirac profiles to be set based on the output channel, not the input channel, and indeed make the unit as modular as possible to allow easy upgrade and expansion. (Oh, and chuck in a IR remote next time guys!)

An ideal system would be a purely digital head unit, which can output digitally (blu link or similar) into seperate 8 channel 1U analogue slave units that can be daisy chained together for almost unlimited channel expansion. Probably unlikely, but one can dream!
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Old 03-23-2016, 01:31 PM
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I think music is also important during a movie, this is where the datasat can use a improvement.

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Old 03-23-2016, 02:45 PM
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Personally I think that's largely pointless in a home theatre setting. I would challenge anyone to be able to tell what DAC's are being used in the middle of a movie with images on screen and 16 channels firing! Especially where they are already as well implemented as they are in the RS20i.
Could not agree more.

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Fine if the processor is doubling as a stereo system, but even then I'd still rather utilise the digital outputs into the stereo DAC of my choice.
I also agree but I think there is a some limit on the bit depth/length truncation that could affect hi rez music

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I'd much rather they created additional flexibility into any new unit, such as being able to utilise any Atmos or DTS:X channels of choice up to the full channel count of the unit, give unlimited options for channel down mixing such as those mentioned on the QSC units above, allow Dirac profiles to be set based on the output channel, not the input channel, and indeed make the unit as modular as possible to allow easy upgrade and expansion. (Oh, and chuck in a IR remote next time guys!)
A remote would be nice. There are still some unused slots so some serious upgrades could still be implemented in the RS20i

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An ideal system would be a purely digital head unit, which can output digitally (blu link or similar) into seperate 8 channel 1U analogue slave units that can be daisy chained together for almost unlimited channel expansion. Probably unlikely, but one can dream!
Sounds a bit like a Theta Casablanca.

Having had a Theta, I like the hardware simplicity of the RS20i. I don't want to worry about any more boxes or attachments. It is more than good enough for music and incredible for movies
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Old 03-23-2016, 06:10 PM
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^^^^
Proverbs 3:5 is where the rubber meets the road.

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Old 03-23-2016, 06:13 PM
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^^^^
Proverbs 3:5 is where the rubber meets the road.
You win!!
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Old 03-23-2016, 06:15 PM
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We all win.

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Old 03-23-2016, 07:09 PM
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I wonder if one could contact "Anthony Harry Hyams" and a deal on any of the gear in the screening room?
I believe this is the screening room with the protoype Procella speakers designed by Anders.

Cheers,
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Old 03-24-2016, 03:30 PM
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What is the MiniDSP you are suggesting for the subs?
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Old 03-24-2016, 04:17 PM
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What is the MiniDSP you are suggesting for the subs?
Depends on the number of subs and how they are layed out. I have 4 but each 2 are equidistant from the MLP and use XLR connections. Given all of that, I use miniDSP OpenDRC AN.

If yours is not like that, they have other models that will fit the bill.
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Old 03-25-2016, 02:41 AM
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What is the MiniDSP you are suggesting for the subs?
This is the one I use:

https://www.minidsp.com/products/min...p-balanced-2x4

I only use two subs because in their current positions in my room (just off centre mirrored front and back) they provide a very good naturally flat combined response pre-EQ. But the unit gives me the option of adding another two subs should I ever feel the desire.
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Old 03-25-2016, 07:13 PM
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@westmd made some excellent points. As near as I can tell, there is at least one key function that would give "potential" sonic advantage to the RS20i over the LS10. The RS20i has the ability to set PEQ's that are taken into consideration when Dirac runs (on the Output Presets) while the LS10 does not. Both have the ability to set PEQ's after Dirac is run. What this provides is the ability to get even more uniform response than without it, and, therefore, potentially better envelopment. I have no clue how audible it is, if at all.

Having recently assisted in the set up a McIntosh 160, it is my opinion that the Datasat is the (far) superior choice. And I'm just guessing here but the differences are really Dirac vs Room Perfect as opposed to the actual platforms on which they run. @joerod did some blind comparisons of the 160 and an RS20i and chose the RS20i.

Just guessing here but I would think you will get more than 90% of the RS20i sound in the LS10 for about half the price. And if you have a basic room (e.g. 7.1.4) I can think of no great reason to spend the extra money. And given you don't need the unit for a few months, I would go with the LS10 over the 160.
Thank you. I was on the verge of getting an MX160 but will look into the new LS10 as well!
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Old 03-25-2016, 11:48 PM
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Depends on the number of subs and how they are layed out. I have 4 but each 2 are equidistant from the MLP and use XLR connections. Given all of that, I use miniDSP OpenDRC AN.

If yours is not like that, they have other models that will fit the bill.
What I would like to do is not the subs but my center. As I have ne center above my screen and one center below (I don't have an AT screen) I would like to level these two speakers in level and delay before running DIRAC on the LS10.
Nevertheless what is better to go with both sub outs in the subs and run DIRAC or to go with one mono sub out into the MiniDSP and run both subs together during DIRAC?
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Old 03-26-2016, 08:00 AM
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What I would like to do is not the subs but my center. As I have ne center above my screen and one center below (I don't have an AT screen) I would like to level these two speakers in level and delay before running DIRAC on the LS10.
Nevertheless what is better to go with both sub outs in the subs and run DIRAC or to go with one mono sub out into the MiniDSP and run both subs together during DIRAC?
The above and below the screen center can work as well. Setting levels would be straight forward but setting the delays would be a bit more tricky (the impulse measurement from REW would work in this case). But once completed, it can be quite effective (I did this years ago with a different room correction product that set trim and delays and it worked.) As an FYI, it really only works well for the MLP as once you get off center some phase issues messed things up a bit.

For the subs, I would use one output from the LS10 with a splitter into the two inputs of the miniDSP. That allows you to use different filters for the two subs on the input side, but set the trims and delays on the output side. Having done this multiple times, you will definitely get better LFE results this way as compared to using two outputs from the LS10.
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Old 03-26-2016, 08:01 AM
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I guess that bringing out dts-x upgrade (soonish) will be a good show of their commitment to the market. I know Steve is working hard at it and they have been actively designing a very comprehensive piece, if they come out with a 32 channel dirac unison machine they will reach new heights again.
Any idea what resolution is being targeted, 96/24 or 192/24?

I've been following the Theta thread and there was a post a while back that would suggest Dirac at 192/24 was giving the Theta platform (I assume) some issues. Unfortunately no further info was given.

Thanks

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Old 03-26-2016, 08:05 AM
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I've been following the Theta thread and there was a post a while back that would suggest Dirac at 192/24 was giving the Theta platform (I assume) some issues. Unfortunately no further info was given.

Thanks
Do you think that is a Dirac issue or a Theta issue? I think the RS20i platform is 24/192 compatible is it not? If that's the case with Theta and Datasat, then it would seem the issue is Dirac, but I am only guessing.
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Old 03-26-2016, 08:21 AM
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Thank you. I was on the verge of getting an MX160 but will look into the new LS10 as well!
Given they are close to the same price, and that the MX160 gives you ZERO control over the target curve and the LS10 gives just under infinite control, it would be no contest. When I assisted with the MX160 installation, I had him order a miniDSP for two reasons: (1) he had his subs placed such that he could get them to play nice together prior to Room Perfect and (2), he wanted a bit more lift in the lower end of the bass frequencies for action movies and games, but not for music. The miniDSP has four dial-selectable slots to allow him this flexibility.

One other big advantage of the LS10. Distance (delay) is set manually in the MX160 and there is no way for the user to take into account the latency built into any DSP engines in the loop (e.g. most subs). Without external measuring tools, there is no way to get delays set perfectly, which plays a huge roll in the overall sense of envelopment. Dirac will set delays and trims very accurately. However, with Dirac and Audyssey and Room Perfect, they almost ALWAYS miss the delays when multiple subs are involved. After the room correction systems have done their job, using REW or equivalent allows you to adjust the sub delays to get a better blend with the other speakers.

But remember, this is just one man's thoughts on the subject. YMMV.
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