Official DataSat RS20i thread. (Setup Tips, Questions,General Info, etc) - Page 131 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3901 of 3926 Unread 09-21-2016, 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted by dschulz View Post
Acurus was showing a 7.1.6 channel system at CEDIA, so at least one DSP manufacturer has bumped their architecture and firmware up to 14 channels. Hopefully that's a sign of good things to come across all of the DSP-based solutions, Datasat included.
Has that definitely been confirmed as 14 discrete DTS:X/Atmos channels then Dan? Definitely no proprietary upmixing/remapping/extrapolation trickery?
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post #3902 of 3926 Unread 09-21-2016, 01:55 AM
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Has that definitely been confirmed as 14 discrete DTS:X/Atmos channels then Dan? Definitely no proprietary upmixing/remapping/extrapolation trickery?
From what I understand from Neil, is that they did all their stuff in house. Whether they made their own dsp chips I don't know. But I do know that dts will still be 11 according to what some one posted as being told by the Acurus rep.
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post #3903 of 3926 Unread 09-21-2016, 03:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Has that definitely been confirmed as 14 discrete DTS:X/Atmos channels then Dan? Definitely no proprietary upmixing/remapping/extrapolation trickery?
I queried this with Neil in the Acurus thread on Avf and it is correct, according to him it's all discrete channels, for Atmos only.

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post #3904 of 3926 Unread 09-21-2016, 03:34 AM
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From what I understand from Neil, is that they did all their stuff in house. Whether they made their own dsp chips I don't know. But I do know that dts will still be 11 according to what some one posted as being told by the Acurus rep.
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I queried this with Neil in the Acurus thread on Avf and it is correct, according to him it's all discrete channels, for Atmos only.
OK, thanks guys - that's good news and bad news then I guess.

Good news that at least we now know its physically possible. Bad news in that one has to ask if a little company Like Indy Audio Labs can do this, why the hell can't a larger concern like Datasat?!
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post #3905 of 3926 Unread 09-21-2016, 03:41 AM
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OK, thanks guys - that's good news and bad news then I guess.

Good news that at least we now know its physically possible. Bad news in that one has to ask if a little company Like Indy Audio Labs can do this, why the hell can't a larger concern like Datasat?!
Maybe their is a solution or workaround, but at this point, I'm guessing priority is to get DTS:X up and running.

Personally, I think we'll only see a higher count quite a bit down the line with the availability of a new Atmos card.

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post #3906 of 3926 Unread 09-21-2016, 04:00 AM
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I talked to the Mikes at CEDIA and neither were aware of any IMMEDIATE chip changes that would facilitate more discrete channels. So, my bet is that either this "additional channel" count is some added in-house hardware OR some kind of "faux" channel process (JVC anyone?) that they are marketing as discrete channels.

What I do know is that there is a lot one can do with the "limited" 16 or 24 channels that we have. Even the incredible Wisdom demo at CEDIA had "extra" channels using the RS20i. Copying channels may not be discrete but it sure can improve the immersiveness if one wants more speakers. These copied channels can have their own trims and delays so while that's not discrete, it works quite well. While not everyone thought so, many thought the Wisdom/Datasat demo was the best at the show. And the remainder were way more than impressed. I am one of them and would go on to say, all things taken into consideration, it was the best I have ever heard. All with way more speakers than the 12 we are "limited to".

I am very comfortable that while our system is "limited", it is very upgradable and once the chip thing gets settled, we will be able to take advantage of it. How many other chip-based processors will be able to do so???????

And as for having the ability to use "upgraded DACs", we can most certainly do that as well. We have digital outs. Why not stick 6 stacks of dCS components for 12 channels of "improved?" sound for a mere $480,000 upgrade??
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post #3907 of 3926 Unread 09-21-2016, 04:15 AM
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Of course, yes, the RS20i is very flexible, I do still love mine. However, whilst the copying of channels certainly seemed to work well for the Auro3D upmixer, I'm not convinced of its benefit for DSU, and really think it has no place at all on native Atmos tracks since it goes against the very methodology and design of the format.

For me personally, that leaves me with 4 redundant channels for the vast majority of my listening.

I suspect Asif is right in that we'll only see extended channel usage with a new card, more than likely for another 3 grand! At that point Datasat will be implementing what, arguably, they should have implemented right at the start. Its easy to make excuses for them, but I do find it hard to cut them so much slack when the costs of entry are so high.
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post #3908 of 3926 Unread 09-21-2016, 04:49 AM
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Of course, yes, the RS20i is very flexible, I do still love mine. However, whilst the copying of channels certainly seemed to work well for the Auro3D upmixer, I'm not convinced of its benefit for DSU, and really think it has no place at all on native Atmos tracks since it goes against the very methodology and design of the format.

For me personally, that leaves me with 4 redundant channels for the vast majority of my listening.

I suspect Asif is right in that we'll only see extended channel usage with a new card, more than likely for another 3 grand! At that point Datasat will be implementing what, arguably, they should have implemented right at the start. Its easy to make excuses for them, but I do find it hard to cut them so much slack when the costs of entry are so high.
Price notwithstanding, and given the RS20i is a relative of the AP20 (chip based), I'm not sure how they could have implemented more channels initially since I am not aware of any other source of these kinds of chips. For about 1/2 the price, you get the LS10 which offers much of the value.

BUT, if they really offer the upgrade at $3K, that would more than suck. But, lest we forget, not one of us were forced to buy. We could have waited until the similarly priced Trinnov was available.

I see this situation as maybe a slightly different version of what has happened in flat panel displays. The first 42 inch I saw was a mere $20,000 and now they are about 1% of that price. And having just come back form CEDIA, for those who JUST purchased a new 4K UHD TV, you are already holding old technology. At least two of the main stream TV companies demonstrated now available TV's that up sampled normal content to both 4K (not new) AND UHD (brand new) and the differences between a regular 4K TV showing this content vs the up sampled UHD version was startling.

Those of us who enjoy playing in this technology sandbox get to pay for the privilege. While I too would love a product that was a bit more upgradable, it is what it is. And, we are only speculating at what the future upgrade might cost.
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Hi All,

No need to guess - I can confirm that the Acurus ACT4 is no capable of delivering 7.1.6 discrete channels from the ATMOS decoder dsp. There is no trick or anything else. The platform design of the ACT4 is such is that they could extend this further but there are no more physical outputs but who knows what could happen in the future...

I have asked the guys to do some layout diagrams and a bit of a "white paper" on this since it is so cool and so unexpected.

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post #3910 of 3926 Unread 09-21-2016, 08:25 AM
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Hi All,

No need to guess - I can confirm that the Acurus ACT4 is no capable of delivering 7.1.6 discrete channels from the ATMOS decoder dsp. There is no trick or anything else. The platform design of the ACT4 is such is that they could extend this further but there are no more physical outputs but who knows what could happen in the future...

I have asked the guys to do some layout diagrams and a bit of a "white paper" on this since it is so cool and so unexpected.
Thanks Neil.

Have they written bespoke code of the standard DSP that other manufacturers have used then, or have they used their own DSP and code?
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post #3911 of 3926 Unread 09-21-2016, 08:28 AM
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I assume it is the "standard" decoder but all the rest of the DSP stuff they have done themselves.

The additional channels are physically routed to the downmix output channels which normally have a 2 channel downmix of the currently playing track applied to them.

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post #3912 of 3926 Unread 09-21-2016, 08:56 AM
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Bad news in that one has to ask if a little company Like Indy Audio Labs can do this, why the hell can't a larger concern like Datasat?!
Little companies like Indy Audio Labs don't have the coding resources that bigger companies do, so they have to buy their DSP solutions from board makers like Momentum Data Systems. MDS uses TI chips, which are capable of rendering to 13 speakers locations when decoding an Atmos signal.

Data sheet from the MDS website: http://www.mds.com/wp-content/upload...AE89_rev1b.pdf

At the top of the diagram on page 3, specs are listed as follows: "from PCM or AAC 7.1 channels @96 kHz, 13.2 @48kHz ATMOS, 11.2 @ 48kHz UHD".

That spec sheet is over 2 years old (note that DTS UHD had not yet been rebranded as DTS:X), so native Atmos decoding/rendering to 13 speakers is certainly not new, though Indy Audio Labs might be the first manufacturer to take advantage of it.
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post #3913 of 3926 Unread 09-21-2016, 12:36 PM
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Great post Craig.


I think we do all understand the limitations on the discrete channels (bed/objects) available for manufacturers using DSPs is the restriction of the DSP and not of their own design. I guess we are all very enthusiastic about our HT and are a pretty demanding bunch at times (sometimes unreasonably so) and would just love to be able to use all the potential of the 16 channels provided by the RS20i. I actually never thought I would use these 16 channels when I first got my unit, considering it a bit of an overkill, but times change quickly.


It would be great if you can share you thoughts across these 3 tremendous units when you experience the Trinnov. The feature set of the Trinnov is so very compelling for consumers looking at options in that market range. My RS20i is a keeper and I am very very grateful for Carl in directing me to it. So I do need to reflect and remember my good fortune and to manage my expectations.
Thank you for the kind words my friend..

I have heard the Trinnov and believe me if I needed 28 Channels (IE. Ash Sharma ) I would have no choice. In my world which consists of many Audiophiles and high end Theater Enthusiasts the Casablanca 4 and the Datasats are just awesome. Some people like Theta because of its 20+ year upgradable track record and flexible Dacs and easy modular upgrades. Others love Datasat for its incredible setup screens and overall programmability along with the Atmos card based install for RS20 which is nice.

Hope that helps

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post #3914 of 3926 Unread 09-22-2016, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Little companies like Indy Audio Labs don't have the coding resources that bigger companies do, so they have to buy their DSP solutions from board makers like Momentum Data Systems. MDS uses TI chips, which are capable of rendering to 13 speakers locations when decoding an Atmos signal.

Data sheet from the MDS website: http://www.mds.com/wp-content/upload...AE89_rev1b.pdf

At the top of the diagram on page 3, specs are listed as follows: "from PCM or AAC 7.1 channels @96 kHz, 13.2 @48kHz ATMOS, 11.2 @ 48kHz UHD".

That spec sheet is over 2 years old (note that DTS UHD had not yet been rebranded as DTS:X), so native Atmos decoding/rendering to 13 speakers is certainly not new, though Indy Audio Labs might be the first manufacturer to take advantage of it.


Very interesting info. What's the .2 in "13.2 @8kHz ATMOS"? 2 more independent channels that are NOT capable of positional rendering?


Does Theta use the same MDS board/DSP?

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Is the DataSat platform upgradeable like Theta?
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post #3916 of 3926 Unread 09-24-2016, 02:12 PM
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Is the DataSat platform upgradeable like Theta?
If I might paraphrase a past US President, it all depends on what you mean by "upgradeable". As I recall, the primary upgrade path for Theta owners is new DACs. The Datasat (only the RS20i and not the LS10) does have digital outputs in addition to the excellent included DACs. So if you were so inclined, you could use the digital outs and attach them to whatever DAC's you chose to spend your money on.

Based upon comparing my RS20i and the included DACs to a dCS stack when playing multi-channel sources (blind, level matched), I would NOT use the digital outs, stick with the most excellent internal DACs of the RS20i and spend my money on other stuff (better PJ, more source material, better speakers, etc).

Do a blind, level matched comparison of a 7.1 or 7.1.4 (or more) system of the Theta (with no room correction in place and the best DAC's Theta offers) to any other reasonable SSP, and see how well you do. It's a lot lot lot easier when listening to 2 channel compared to 7 or more. A lot easier. If you have the difficulty that others have had who have done this (must be blind and level matched), you can save your money.

One man's opinion.

Let me assume that the DAC's/hardware of the Theta is better than the RS20i. I would maintain that the flexibility of the RS20i (e.g. output preset PEQ's), would allow me to provide a better listening experience compared to the Theta. The RS20i also allows the user to store up to 10 sets of Dirac filters and assign them to the various inputs. I can also copy input channels to other channels. So it can support systems with more speakers.

I have no doubt that the Theta is an outstanding piece (I was a Theta owner for years), but the mere fact that it provides DAC options does not make it the better choice - at least for me. BUT, the Theta does support Dirac, runs on great hardware and I have no doubt it provides great sonics.
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post #3917 of 3926 Unread 09-24-2016, 02:46 PM
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Is the DataSat platform upgradeable like Theta?
Rock

Thats a very fair question and that was a great answer above. I am fairly neutral as I have been selling Theta for 21 years and Datasat for quite a long time as well.

Theta is truly card based and has proven for over 20 years that the chassis can be upgraded with new Video Cards, new Dacs and new processing engines and more. The Xtreme and Xtreme D3 dacs are very impressive and from a straight 2 channel perspective you wont find a pre pro anywhere with this level of sound. For multi channel of course there are lots of options but Datasat is incredible and offers great software flexibility and setup that is freaking fantastic. The sonics of the LS10/RS10 are very good. I have listened to music on the RS20 for hours and hours and was actually blown away how good it is. It doesn't quite have the warm open Theta sound for music and for some people that may be a deal breaker but believe me its very impressive.

I have over 400 Casablanca's that I manage across the world and most of them are very happy with the flexibility and upgrades although we all complain that Theta is always a little late with new Tech. Theta is a little slow but they like to get it right before release. When they do get new stuff out , its usually mind boggling good. Ask the people with the new Xtreme D3 dacs.

For the guy who wants great Sound and Incredible flexibility and setup options the Datasat is great. As for upgrades, the LS10 is upgradable but we don't have a track record as its so new. They have added Dirac and Atmos to it with a factory upgrade and that is fantastic. The Rs20 is a little more flexible as the Atmos card can be removed right out the back.

The Casablanca customers which some of them have had CB's for over 20 years continue to upgrade and grow there Cb's by adding new Tech and new HDMI and new Dac options as we release more Dac cards.

Datasat has a little jump on Theta right now with Atmos as the Theta Atmos card for Casablanca 4a is still in beta and hopefully will arrive end of year. Its up and running but software is time consuming.

You can't go wrong with either one. These are the 2 best of the best and both american made. USA USA

Hope that helps -

Craig
Theatermax LLC
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post #3918 of 3926 Unread 09-24-2016, 04:47 PM
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Do a blind, level matched comparison of a 7.1 or 7.1.4 (or more) system of the Theta (with no room correction in place and the best DAC's Theta offers) to any other reasonable SSP, and see how well you do. It's a lot lot lot easier when listening to 2 channel compared to 7 or more. A lot easier. If you have the difficulty that others have had who have done this (must be blind and level matched), you can save your money.
Not at all entering the argument of which one is better (PLENTY of evidence that Datasat is an excellent SSP), but would like to comment on your methodology. IMHO testing at 7.1.4 instead of 2.0 or mono and citing an inability to hear a difference as evidence of "being the same" doesn't really make sense. For a few reasons:

1. In a comparison of two components, IMHO tester should try to eliminate variables, not increase them. This of course is the first rule of any scientific test. You don't test 2 cars using different tires, test 2 lenses using different camera bodies. It's a good idea to minimize effect of *your* set of surround speakers, their various qualities, their interactions with *your* room, etc., into the test. I do not know of one audio engineer who tests quality your way: using the result of 7.1.4 as the sole evidence of quality.

2. Movie sound is not always all-out at 7.1.4. In fact more often, especially in good movies, only 2 or 3 speakers are playing, specifically LCR. You will hear a difference then, no?

3. Hearing a difference with 2.0 is "easier" than 7.1.4 therefore 7.1.4 "or more" is the better way to test? Quite the contrary. It's a test of sound quality, not to see when your sensation threshold is overloaded. IMHO this is not too different from cranking up volume so loud to the point you can't hear nuances of difference anymore.

4. No criticism here, just want to point out that if you do hear a difference with 2 channel, and not hear it with 7.1.4, then to me this is more of a personal observation within your system that may not apply to others, as you've implied. Your sensation overload threshold for making a distinction (7.1.4 overloads more than 2.0) may not be same as others. For me the sum is the result of the small parts, if 2.0 is not as good, 7.1.4 at least follows. Surely it won't be better.

Regards, Can
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Last edited by cannga; 09-24-2016 at 04:54 PM.
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post #3919 of 3926 Unread 09-24-2016, 05:06 PM
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Not at all entering the argument of which one is better (PLENTY of evidence that Datasat is an excellent SSP), but would like to comment on your methodology. IMHO testing at 7.1.4 instead of 2.0 or mono and citing an inability to hear a difference as evidence of "being the same" doesn't really make sense. For a few reasons:

1. In a comparison of two components, IMHO tester should try to eliminate variables, not increase them. This of course is the first rule of any scientific test. You don't test 2 cars using different tires, test 2 lenses using different camera bodies. It's a good idea to minimize effect of *your* set of surround speakers, their various qualities, their interactions with *your* room, etc., into the test. I do not know of one audio engineer who tests quality your way: using the result of 7.1.4 as the sole evidence of quality.

2. Movie sound is not always all-out at 7.1.4. In fact more often, especially in good movies, only 2 or 3 speakers are playing, specifically LCR. You will hear a difference then, no?

3. Hearing a difference with 2.0 is "easier" than 7.1.4 therefore 7.1.4 "or more" is the better way to test? Quite the contrary. It's a test of sound quality, not to see when your sensation threshold is overloaded. IMHO this is not too different from cranking up volume so loud to the point you can't hear nuances of difference anymore.

4. No criticism here, just want to point out that if you do hear a difference with 2 channel, and not hear it with 7.1.4, then to me this is more of a personal observation within your system that may not apply to others, as you've implied. Your sensation overload threshold for making a distinction (7.1.4 overloads more than 2.0) may not be same as others. For me the sum is the result of the small parts, if 2.0 is not as good, 7.1.4 at least follows. Surely it won't be better.
I built an XLR switch box that allows us to direct connect any two sources to compare UP TO a 7.1 configuration. When we compared the RS20i against a dCS stack, we ONLY listened to two channel - blind and level matched. The speakers were Magico Q5's augmented with REL subs. Without going into all of the details, let's just say that the sighted results were dramatically different than the blind results.

Using my system, we also started out with a 2.1 system (my mains are not full range). We then expanded to 7.1. The point I was trying to make is that the differences in DAC's, if there are any, is incredibly difficult to ascertain when listening to all of those speakers. If you have not tried it blind, do so and I have no doubt that if you do it honestly, you will see exactly what I am talking about.
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post #3920 of 3926 Unread 09-24-2016, 07:51 PM
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I look forward to evaluating the 2 channel performance of the RS20i and comparing it to the Trinnov I used to have. I will give an honest opinion of the performance comparison fwiw. I don't have any issue with criticizing the 2 channel performance of anything because at the end of the day if I am not happy with it I won't use it for 2 channel. I sold off my 10k stereo preamp after concluding that the Trinnov ST2 was just as quiet and had superb performance/sound quality. If the RS20i impresses me in the same way then I will be very happy because I won't have to buy another preamp! I would like to have compared the Theta Casablanca but had no way of auditioning one. I'm sure it would be really good, even if it has low-grade non-tiffany style rca jacks on the back. Lol, how did the audiophiles let Theta get away with that one?

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post #3921 of 3926 Unread 09-24-2016, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by rocktober View Post
Is the DataSat platform upgradeable like Theta?
If I might paraphrase a past US President, it all depends on what you mean by "upgradeable". As I recall, the primary upgrade path for Theta owners is new DACs. The Datasat (only the RS20i and not the LS10) does have digital outputs in addition to the excellent included DACs. So if you were so inclined, you could use the digital outs and attach them to whatever DAC's you chose to spend your money on.

Based upon comparing my RS20i and the included DACs to a dCS stack when playing multi-channel sources (blind, level matched), I would NOT use the digital outs, stick with the most excellent internal DACs of the RS20i and spend my money on other stuff (better PJ, more source material, better speakers, etc).

Do a blind, level matched comparison of a 7.1 or 7.1.4 (or more) system of the Theta (with no room correction in place and the best DAC's Theta offers) to any other reasonable SSP, and see how well you do. It's a lot lot lot easier when listening to 2 channel compared to 7 or more. A lot easier. If you have the difficulty that others have had who have done this (must be blind and level matched), you can save your money.

One man's opinion.

Let me assume that the DAC's/hardware of the Theta is better than the RS20i. I would maintain that the flexibility of the RS20i (e.g. output preset PEQ's), would allow me to provide a better listening experience compared to the Theta. The RS20i also allows the user to store up to 10 sets of Dirac filters and assign them to the various inputs. I can also copy input channels to other channels. So it can support systems with more speakers.

I have no doubt that the Theta is an outstanding piece (I was a Theta owner for years), but the mere fact that it provides DAC options does not make it the better choice - at least for me. BUT, the Theta does support Dirac, runs on great hardware and I have no doubt it provides great sonics.

What I mean by upgradeable means just that. Simply put, will it be around in twenty yrs? The Casablanca, after 20 yrs, in a world of ever changing technology, is current today! The question wasn't about which sounds better at this many channels or dacs or blind testing, the question was, is the DataSat platform upgradeable in the future? I'm just in awe at Theta for their commitment to the Casablanca, it's a commitment that nobody else in this industry can claim... To have kept this product current today and to continue to do that is short of amazing! I wish more companys showed that type of commitment to their customers.
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post #3922 of 3926 Unread 09-25-2016, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by rocktober View Post
What I mean by upgradeable means just that. Simply put, will it be around in twenty yrs? The Casablanca, after 20 yrs, in a world of ever changing technology, is current today! The question wasn't about which sounds better at this many channels or dacs or blind testing, the question was, is the DataSat platform upgradeable in the future? I'm just in awe at Theta for their commitment to the Casablanca, it's a commitment that nobody else in this industry can claim... To have kept this product current today and to continue to do that is short of amazing! I wish more companys showed that type of commitment to their customers.
Theta is probably unique in that respect. And not to take away from that philosophy, but having been through a few of those Theta "upgrades", at least one was an "upgrade" in name only since virtually everything was completely replaced. But no one else has done that so kudos to Theta.

I would be MORE than surprised if in 20 years the RS20i exists in any form. To me, unfortunately, in 20 years, it will make no difference since I will exist in Spirit only
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post #3923 of 3926 Unread 09-25-2016, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by rocktober View Post
What I mean by upgradeable means just that. Simply put, will it be around in twenty yrs? The Casablanca, after 20 yrs, in a world of ever changing technology, is current today! The question wasn't about which sounds better at this many channels or dacs or blind testing, the question was, is the DataSat platform upgradeable in the future? I'm just in awe at Theta for their commitment to the Casablanca, it's a commitment that nobody else in this industry can claim... To have kept this product current today and to continue to do that is short of amazing! I wish more companys showed that type of commitment to their customers.
Rock

Well said my friend and thanks for that.

Whats super important to understand is this. Steve Evanitsky (VP Sales) of Datasat is a great guy and totally gets the industry. He came up with ways for people with early LS10's that wanted Dirac and Atmos to do an exchange where they get a fully upgraded machine and they just have to send their unit back. Reducing downtime to essentially zero. This says a lot and in this ever changing world of HDMI and tech this was a stunning move. I give him all the credit in the world for doing this. Certainly the LS10 has proven some upgradability so far and of course requires some factory work but they managed to add Dirac which I never thought they would to the LS10 along with Atmos.

They know what they are up against and they are getting a lot of traction as we see it. Since Dave K is running the tech at Datasat you can know for sure that the tricks its capable of will be awesome. When Dave K was at Theta and working on Casablanca he was the guy who gave it the magic of having 12 Environments with unique settings for each of the 12 inputs. This same type of flexibility of course moved with him to Datasat and he's expanded even more with crossover and bass management unlike anything on the market.

Theta is much more focused on sound and better D/A etc. The CB of course has Digital outputs if needed but very few people today would need an external dac with CB as the Xtreme D3's are unreal. Its funny when I read mentions about DCS and comparisons. We did many A/B tests over the years with Berkeley and DCS against the Theta Gen VIII stand alone dac and every time the Gen VIII Smoked the others. How can a 14K dac smoke a 60K DCS dac. Theta's been building dacs before either of those companies existed. When Theta releases the Xtreme D3 dac many people A/B tested it against their Gen VIII's stand alone dacs and most of them sold off their Gen VIII's because the Xtreme D3 seemed to better. End result Morris Kessler (ATI/Theta Boss) is spending a lot of money on the future of Casablanca has really done it again and set the CB4 at the pinnacle of audio quality.

In all my years in this business it makes me very happy to know that we have 2 great companies building the best they can here in the USA and providing customers the absolute best in class products.

I wouldn't be surprised if they both are around in 20 years

Craig
Theatermax LLC
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post #3924 of 3926 Unread 09-25-2016, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Theta is probably unique in that respect. And not to take away from that philosophy, but having been through a few of those Theta "upgrades", at least one was an "upgrade" in name only since virtually everything was completely replaced. But no one else has done that so kudos to Theta.

I would be MORE than surprised if in 20 years the RS20i exists in any form. To me, unfortunately, in 20 years, it will make no difference since I will exist in Spirit only
I hope it is around in 20 yrs brother, and hope you are too!

"May fortune favor the foolish" Captain James T Kirk
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post #3925 of 3926 Unread 09-25-2016, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by VGI View Post
Rock

Well said my friend and thanks for that.

Whats super important to understand is this. Steve Evanitsky (VP Sales) of Datasat is a great guy and totally gets the industry. He came up with ways for people with early LS10's that wanted Dirac and Atmos to do an exchange where they get a fully upgraded machine and they just have to send their unit back. Reducing downtime to essentially zero. This says a lot and in this ever changing world of HDMI and tech this was a stunning move. I give him all the credit in the world for doing this. Certainly the LS10 has proven some upgradability so far and of course requires some factory work but they managed to add Dirac which I never thought they would to the LS10 along with Atmos.

They know what they are up against and they are getting a lot of traction as we see it. Since Dave K is running the tech at Datasat you can know for sure that the tricks its capable of will be awesome. When Dave K was at Theta and working on Casablanca he was the guy who gave it the magic of having 12 Environments with unique settings for each of the 12 inputs. This same type of flexibility of course moved with him to Datasat and he's expanded even more with crossover and bass management unlike anything on the market.

Theta is much more focused on sound and better D/A etc. The CB of course has Digital outputs if needed but very few people today would need an external dac with CB as the Xtreme D3's are unreal. Its funny when I read mentions about DCS and comparisons. We did many A/B tests over the years with Berkeley and DCS against the Theta Gen VIII stand alone dac and every time the Gen VIII Smoked the others. How can a 14K dac smoke a 60K DCS dac. Theta's been building dacs before either of those companies existed. When Theta releases the Xtreme D3 dac many people A/B tested it against their Gen VIII's stand alone dacs and most of them sold off their Gen VIII's because the Xtreme D3 seemed to better. End result Morris Kessler (ATI/Theta Boss) is spending a lot of money on the future of Casablanca has really done it again and set the CB4 at the pinnacle of audio quality.

In all my years in this business it makes me very happy to know that we have 2 great companies building the best they can here in the USA and providing customers the absolute best in class products.

I wouldn't be surprised if they both are around in 20 years

Craig
Theatermax LLC
Craig, I love reading your responses man, when it comes to all things Theta, you're the man brother! Keep rockin that tune Bro!

"May fortune favor the foolish" Captain James T Kirk
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post #3926 of 3926 Unread 09-25-2016, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by rocktober View Post
I hope it is around in 20 yrs brother, and hope you are too!
Yes I hope for that as well

Craig Shumer
20 Years of Audio Video Excellence
President of Theatermax LLC
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