Official DataSat RS20i thread. (Setup Tips, Questions,General Info, etc) - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 1883 Old 03-23-2013, 06:12 AM
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The RS20i has a US MSRP of 18500 but that is supposedly going up soon if it hasn't already. Dirac adds another $2K or so I believe, plus you'll need it to be pro-calibrated or you'll need to supply the necessary hardware (microphone, mic preamp, computer).

If you need more HDMI I/O's there are numerous outboard boxes that work well. Not an elegant solution, I know, but it is what it is.
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post #542 of 1883 Old 03-23-2013, 07:19 AM
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Dirac is built in. So the msrp includes Dirac, but as mentioned you will need to get it calibrated or purchase a calibration kit.

There is talk of a further expansion board to add more hdmi ins and outs. But as most use video processors this is why they opted for 1 out 4 in.

Auro3d is looking like it will be implemented by the end of the year.
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post #543 of 1883 Old 03-23-2013, 07:58 AM
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Hi Nick - just to clarify, Dirac software is built in, but worthless without the dongle to unlock it. The dongle is part of the kit, and that is an add-on. So you either pay for the kit or you pay for a dealer/pro calibration. Point is there are extra costs in there to get Dirac to run unless there is room to negotiate with the dealer - and I have no idea what room there is on an RS20i.

Out of curiosity, are RS20i's "gettable" at much less than retail? I was always shocked at the percentage off I could get on other equipment like Theta.
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post #544 of 1883 Old 03-23-2013, 08:14 AM
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Yes, I just wanted to clarify your post. As to me it read that Dirac was extra plus calibration or kit. Basically as you say, Dirac is included but needs the software to set it up. Which as you say is either the dongle ( around $500 but I am not sure that is allowed to be sold anymore) or the kit.

If your in uk the price includes setup of Dirac by Neil from Genesis. There will be a cheaper consumer calibration kit available soon here in uk. Not sure about the rest of the world.

And again, in Uk, the price is very strictly controlled. Yes, nothing stops a dealer from selling it at less than msrp but if found out they run the risk of getting their datasat dealership revoked.

There was an rs20i up on eBay new for £12000, which sold pretty quickly. But after confirmation from Neil this is not a uk model and therefore would get no support from uk datasat / genesis tech. No dsp card will be made available to the purchaser
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post #545 of 1883 Old 03-23-2013, 08:52 AM
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"... No dsp card will be made available to the purchaser"

That is not correct. If you own an RS20i you will get the new decoder card no matter where it came from. All you need is a serial number and that is printed on the back of the chassis. There is no such thing as a 'UK model'. All Datasat RS20i are the same.

If Neil chooses to not offer assistance to Datasat customers that were not sold by him that is an unfortunate but unrelated issue. Support can be had from other sources.

An important point of interest ...

Dirac Live is IP owned by Dirac Research that is licensed by OEMs. Datasat has a license to include Dirac Live in their products but does not have exclusivity to that IP nor to the software needed to turn it on inside of an RS20i.
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post #546 of 1883 Old 03-23-2013, 10:48 AM
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ANy news on your dl2/dl3 boxes. I thought they would have been released by now? I certainly have never ever made out that Dirac is only available to datasat. Just looking at diracs website will tell one as such.

And I didn't mean uk model as such. But if we are being pedantic there are differences. A switch to 230 / 110v lol. And I believe slightly differently machined facias. But I think all models are going over to the newer machines facias.
I just meant it was a unit that was not sold by the uk distribution network, meaning if there was any issues with it it would need to be returned back to country of origin. Just like if one purchased an Ada device from france imported to uk, any probs and it will need to be sent back to genesis France to deal with.

And in the uk it is down to the dealer network to distribute and install the new dsp card. Unless this has changed.

It seems the dealer network in uk is a little more strictly controlled as evidenced by a fellow members datasat demo failures that he has received in the states. Infact I don't know if Tony has contacted you as you would be the one I would recommend does a demo for him.
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post #547 of 1883 Old 03-23-2013, 11:04 AM
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Carl can you please confirm if you are actually an authorised dealer?

Thanks

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post #548 of 1883 Old 03-23-2013, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schlitzie View Post

The RS20i has a US MSRP of 18500 but that is supposedly going up soon if it hasn't already. Dirac adds another $2K or so I believe, plus you'll need it to be pro-calibrated or you'll need to supply the necessary hardware (microphone, mic preamp, computer).

If you need more HDMI I/O's there are numerous outboard boxes that work well. Not an elegant solution, I know, but it is what it is.

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Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post

Dirac is built in. So the msrp includes Dirac, but as mentioned you will need to get it calibrated or purchase a calibration kit.

There is talk of a further expansion board to add more hdmi ins and outs. But as most use video processors this is why they opted for 1 out 4 in.

Auro3d is looking like it will be implemented by the end of the year.

Thanks for the responses. At $18.5 (plus expense of getting Dirac up and running it appears) it's not as expensive as I was fearing. For me it's in line (a bit more but not to much) with what I have invested in my Lexicon MC-12Bv5EQ given that our Canadian dollar was only like 73 cents on the US dollar when I purchased it pre v4/5 and EQ and a bit better exchange rate when I bought the v4 upgrade with EQ plus mic kit a few years later.

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post #549 of 1883 Old 03-23-2013, 02:05 PM
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Are there any representatives of Datasat on this thread or forum? There is a need for some clarification I think. What happens if a legitimately purchased unit is sold on privately either in the region it was purchased or outside of it whilst its still in its warranty period? Are Datasat no longer interested in supporting that unit or is there support for the unit from the original retailer from where it was purchased? Is there support from Datasat? Or is no-one interested?!!

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post #550 of 1883 Old 03-23-2013, 03:24 PM
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Support continues as normal from the supplying dealer who should be an authorised agent of DataSat or their distributor outside of the US.

There has been some confusion over price rises, policies etc, etc. in all instances it is worth contacting DataSat or their appointed distributor to learn the actual situation in the country where you wish to purchase.

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post #551 of 1883 Old 03-23-2013, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
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If I am not mistaken, did not Carl help design the AP20 which subsequently was re-engineered as the RS20i?


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post #552 of 1883 Old 03-23-2013, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

If I am not mistaken, did not Carl help design the AP20 which subsequently was re-engineered as the RS20i?

That is correct. I was an Engineer & Project Manager for both Datasat and for DTS previous to the Datasat acquisition of the DTS Cinema Group. Since leaving the employ of Datasat I have formed KAD Products where I do Dirac Live consulting and hardware design. I am a dealer and OEM license holder for Dirac Research.products. Our first product is the DL2 and is currently working thru the certification process with the good people at Dirac Research.
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post #553 of 1883 Old 03-23-2013, 06:04 PM
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I am not questioning your résumé here Carl. Please simply confirm if you are authorised by DataSat as a dealer for the RS20i?

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post #554 of 1883 Old 03-24-2013, 10:10 AM
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Neil,

I was the very first RS20i dealer. Many of the RS20i owners participating in this thread bought from me. When Datasat management made the decision to go forward with the RS20i I was asked to contract back to the company in support of the product. My task was to get the word out and represent the interests of Datasat online and at industry trade shows as Datasat worked to build a dealer network. That was two years ago. Today Datasat has an efficient dealer network and my role has changed. I now refer interested parties to the dealer servicing that territory. These days I spend my time doing installations and Dirac Live 'room tunes' for dealers. My next gig is the Promethius install for CINERAMAX. However I still make time to answer questions about the RS20i and support any and all Datasat customer in need of help.
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post #555 of 1883 Old 03-24-2013, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by ceenhad View Post

I am not questioning your résumé here Carl. Please simply confirm if you are authorised by DataSat as a dealer for the RS20i?

The question is a simple one I think?

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post #556 of 1883 Old 03-24-2013, 11:16 AM
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Neil,

Why the sarcasm? My remarks clearly state that I am no longer part of the Datasat dealer network, but act in support of those dealers and their customers.
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Neil,

Why the sarcasm? My remarks clearly state that I am not in the Datasat dealer network, but act in support of those dealers and their customers.
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Carl, I don't know about anyone else, but I for one am finding your knowledge and insight into the world of Datasat and the RS20i most valuable. This thread would be a much poorer place without your presence.

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post #558 of 1883 Old 03-25-2013, 03:31 AM
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Carl, I don't know about anyone else, but I for one am finding your knowledge and insight into the world of Datasat and the RS20i most valuable. This thread would be a much poorer place without your presence.

Absolutely agree !! Carl, your support an approach is greatly appreciated by all and I am sure that includes Datasat. Without your in depth and knowledgeable contribution to this thread i would not have purchased my RS20i.
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post #559 of 1883 Old 03-25-2013, 06:30 AM
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Please let me clarify my position and why I asked Carl to answer my simple question.
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Originally Posted by Carl_Huff View Post

If Neil chooses to not offer assistance to Datasat customers that were not sold by him that is an unfortunate but unrelated issue. Support can be had from other sources.

By Carl's own admission he is no longer an authorised Datasat dealer and in fact is busily developing competitive products. Despite this he has chosen to make statements on the policy of an authorised Datasat distributor. Considering we have never met and have only ever had the briefest correspondence outside this thread I find that quite remarkable.

Why should I use the hundreds of thousands of pounds we have invested in making sure that our dealers have access to the finest demonstration, training and support resources to bail out the actions of a few rogue dealers happy to knock out boxes but who are not there on the ground to offer support? Datasat track every serial number so it is no problem to kindly direct the owner back to their supplying dealer. Trust me the amount of work we have had trying to sort out the many messes created by one US now ex dealer alone would have paid a couple of months salary for one of my support team

When discussing the actions of others I would simply suggest it best to consider ones own actions first before posting. If you have further concerns then you may wish to contact that person directly before commenting to run them down on a public forum.

One other small point. In the EU it is not legal to fix pricing and we do not do that. We do our best to help our dealers show that their price is fair but if the customer feels they are better to go elsewhere after spending the day with us then that is fine and no hard feelings. At least one person on this thread has had the tour but felt it in their interests to import from the US and I am cool with that - but I am sure that they understand that I will again kindly point them back to their supplying dealer for support.

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post #560 of 1883 Old 03-25-2013, 07:14 AM
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I just want to add that Neil has some of the best customer service that I have EVER experienced. I remember telling him a few months ago over email at 2 in the morning to go to bed and enjoy his weekend and forget about me and my setup issues. He truly does go beyond the call of duty.

A true professional with the most amazing experience centre to boot. And an awesome back up team.

And likewise, Carl has been very helpful also and super quick to respond to questions posed on and off forum.

You are both an asset to datasat. But my choice to go for datasat was not because of writings on a thread it was on pure quality of product and datatsats business ethos and upgrade paths.

Why anyone would choose not to go for a uk dealer supported model after visiting GTuk is beyond me. But each to their own I suppose.
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post #561 of 1883 Old 03-25-2013, 09:48 AM
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Aah wow ...

Neil I am not interested in participating in a mud wrestling match. You are free to 'snap your suspenders' and be the village bully if you like. I will say no more except to reaffirm my commitment to educate others and to promote the RS20i and Dirac Live. Both are great products worthy of an audiophile's time and interest.
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post #562 of 1883 Old 03-26-2013, 09:37 AM
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Attention all,

I want to clarify my position for everyone here. I think the RS20i is a great product! I am proud to have been involved in it's development. I am in strong support of Datasat and their dealer network. I want them and the RS20i to flourish!

Altho others have described the products that I am working on to be competitive with the RS20i they really are not. The RS20i is feature rich and offers much more than will my DL2 and DL3 products. For example the DL2/ DL3 does not contain Dolby or DTS decoders. A typical use of the DL2/ DL3 will be someone that has an Oppo player and wants to use that player as their primary theater source. The Oppo does contain the required Dolby and DTS decoders. The output of the Oppo would go to the DL2/ DL3 and Dirac Live correction would be applied. The analog signal would then be passed on to amplifiers.

The RS20i was purposely designed to have a product life of 15 to 20 years. The RS20i hardware was designed by the same engineer that designed the Theta Casablanca and look how long that product has lasted! The expansion slots on the chassis back will bridge new and emerging technologies into the legacy RS20i chassis. The new decoder card is just the first example of that. DTS NEO:X had not been invented when we engineered the AP20/ RS20i yet Datasat was able to craft a new card that brings that technology into the box. There is another card out there that few people know about that adds support for theater film projectors and more are coming. The RS20i has a bright and robust future. The Datasat RS20i is worthy of your audiophile investment $$.
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post #563 of 1883 Old 03-26-2013, 02:48 PM
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I was thinking about this and kind of brought it up in another thread but figured I would ask the question here as this is the most appropriate place for it. Has Datasat to anyones knowledge given consideration to technologies like Audyssey DSX or Harman's Logic 7 or Quantum Logic? This would of course presume that Audyssey would actually license the DSX tech without their room EQ and that Harman, well would license the tech at all because it has never appeared in a non Harman home theater product.

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post #564 of 1883 Old 03-26-2013, 03:15 PM
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Very early on in the AP20/ RS20i project when we were compiling a features list for Datasat management I approached Harmon to talk about licensing Logic 7 (Quantum Logic did not exist at that time). Altho Harmon was gracious, they wouldn't even talk about it. They saw that IP as their proprietary 'magic sauce' and were committed to keeping it that way. I wouldn't expect that to change.
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post #565 of 1883 Old 03-26-2013, 03:45 PM
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Thanks for the response Carl. Getting the Harman stuff in particular in the Datasat processor would pretty much make a dream SSP for me but I can understand Harman wanting to withold the tech. Meridian would probably be the same with their Trifield I assume.

An unrelated question regarding bass management and LFE handling. How many subs can this SSP actually support? For example my Lexicon MC-12 can support 2 subs for bass management configured for dual mono or setero plus a dedicated LFE sub. Is this configuration possible on the Datasat? Lets say I wanted 4 subs for bass management, is that possible and would the LFE sub have to be sacrificed? If not can more than 1 LFE sub be configured along with muttiple bass management subs?

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post #566 of 1883 Old 03-26-2013, 03:57 PM
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There is quite a bit earlier in this thread detailing best use of the RS20i for managing multiple subwoofers. The RS20i Bass Management engine easily handles 4 subwoofers. The LFE is mixed into each. Japan Dave has a huge collection of subwoofers that he manages with his RS20i. I know that he has explored best use of many combinations. I invite him to respond to your question.
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The RS20i Bass Management engine easily handles 4 subwoofers. The LFE is mixed into each. Japan Dave has a huge collection of subwoofers that he manages with his RS20i. I know that he has explored best use of many combinations. I invite him to respond to your question.
I was at Dave's not long ago, and he had a somewhat complex setup running at first, but something was not patched right, so he switched to the default mode where all redirected bass and LFE went to all 4 subs equally. Worked perfectly, as all 4 subs are clustered between the L/C/R. Can read more about the bass quality in my post.

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post #568 of 1883 Old 03-26-2013, 09:05 PM
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Great write-up Roger!

I know that Japan Dave enjoyed your company. I think it's great when knowledgeable people such as yourself are willing to share so unselfishly with others.
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post #569 of 1883 Old 03-26-2013, 09:25 PM
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I think it's great when knowledgeable people such as yourself are willing to share so unselfishly with others.
Back at you! wink.gif

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post #570 of 1883 Old 03-27-2013, 04:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

I was at Dave's not long ago, and he had a somewhat complex setup running at first, but something was not patched right, so he switched to the default mode where all redirected bass and LFE went to all 4 subs equally. Worked perfectly, as all 4 subs are clustered between the L/C/R. Can read more about the bass quality in my post.

Thanks Roger. I am somewhat humbled by your visit. I thought I knew so much , but realized how little I really do know. Thanks again for all the help and such a great time.


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