Official DataSat RS20i thread. (Setup Tips, Questions,General Info, etc) - Page 55 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 5Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1621 of 1711 Old 05-15-2014, 09:03 AM
Member
 
Billybobjimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 189
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereojeff View Post

Stephen Fields has not been with Datasat for many months.

Jeff

Correct, he's with DMS/Storm Audio.

21inch hitachi
Billybobjimbob is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1622 of 1711 Old 05-15-2014, 09:09 AM
Advanced Member
 
Carl_Huff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 616
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
And it's Storm Audio that is rolling out the Aurigo receiver.
_____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
Carl_Huff is offline  
post #1623 of 1711 Old 05-15-2014, 09:13 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Posts: 18,530
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 309 Post(s)
Liked: 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

But does all that upmixing help or hurt the sound??
Auro's upmixing of standard 5.1 content sounded good to me at the movie theatre. I would expect it to sound even better at home, since consumers don't use mono arrays of surround speakers, and therefore can enjoy better imaging.

Sanjay
sdurani is online now  
post #1624 of 1711 Old 05-15-2014, 10:26 AM
Advanced Member
 
djnickuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 690
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereojeff View Post

Stephen Fields has not been with Datasat for many months.

Jeff

Yes, that's why I mentioned his name in regards to the Auriga which is Auros own AVR manufactured by Storm. Full reading of the last few posts would have shown you that, this is why I mentioned his name!
djnickuk is offline  
post #1625 of 1711 Old 05-30-2014, 07:51 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
CINERAMAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: everywhere
Posts: 12,415
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Rs20i will not stop it's evolution at Auro.cool.gif
CINERAMAX is offline  
post #1626 of 1711 Old 05-30-2014, 09:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
BrolicBeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Charles County, MD
Posts: 2,732
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 263
Does the RS20i have the processing power to handle object-oriented audio of the future?
BrolicBeast is online now  
post #1627 of 1711 Old 05-30-2014, 10:02 AM
Advanced Member
 
Carl_Huff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 616
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Does the RS20i have the processing power to handle object-oriented audio of the future?

Yes! If the 6 400mHz DSPs that are internal to the chassis are not enough an option card with whatever MIPs required can simply be slipped into the back. The RS20i was purposely designed for that very kind of evolution.
_____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
Carl_Huff is offline  
post #1628 of 1711 Old 05-30-2014, 10:06 AM
AVS Special Member
 
hifiaudio2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,521
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 57
So its finally going to be the "future proof" processor so many companies have promised for the past 15 years? smile.gif
hifiaudio2 is online now  
post #1629 of 1711 Old 05-30-2014, 10:39 AM
AVS Special Member
 
edorr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,446
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

"future proof" processor

Gets my vote for oxymoron of the week.
BrolicBeast likes this.
edorr is offline  
post #1630 of 1711 Old 05-30-2014, 08:25 PM
Senior Member
 
Curt_Trinnov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Huntington Beach, Ca
Posts: 291
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post


Gets my vote for oxymoron of the week.

Edorr-  You are absolutely right- the box may be future proof for a while, one cannot get away from changing parts.  

 

Using PC as the heart of the system goes a long way towards future proofing HT and consumers are taking note.   Datasat is on to something there, as are Dolby, Trinnov and others who have been doing PC based cinema processors for a while.  At Trinnov, we took the idea of "future proof" model a step further in the Altitude, by eliminating the DSP.   Even so, they will still have to change out the HDMI 1.4 board for the HDMI 2.0 board when it comes out.   And eventually down the road,  we'll run out of processing power and change PC boards too, but at least they are ubiquitous parts, unlike DSP boards, which IMHO, are a true PITA.  BTW, PC board's useful life in our experience, is reliably 8+ years running 24/7 (so far).

 

Cheers,


___________
Curt Hoyt
3D Audio Consultant

Trinnov Audio
USA

Curt_Trinnov is offline  
post #1631 of 1711 Old 05-30-2014, 11:30 PM
Advanced Member
 
Carl_Huff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 616
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Curt and Edorr,

I agree mostly with you but feel the need to point out the problem building products around PC motherboards. The biggest problem being that any one motherboard is in production for only 18 to 24 months once you've committed to it. PC motherboard tech moves along even more quickly than does the HDMI standard. As an OEM when the motherboard that you are using gets marked EOL (End Of Life) you are faced with having to buy and inventory the last remaining stock and are forced to begin an expensive process of migrating to and certifying the latest incarnation of PC madness into your product. And what happens when it comes time to service one of your products that has a 'dead dinosaur' in the chassis? Where do you get the repair parts? Do you offer your customer a wholesale replacement? And who covers that cost?

Products built around PC motherboards are alluring to OEMs because they are inexpensive development platforms and easy to get up and running. But what they don't foresee is the slow bleed of ongoing Engineering expense. OEMs have a finite pool of Engineering resources to work with. If those resources are consumed doing ongoing product support they don't have time to create new magic. That is why Datasat (and others) have been burnt enough to move their new products away from being built around PC motherboards. Datasat abandoned the PC platform for new products several years back. Don't get me wrong, they still sell video servers and cinema decoders that are PC motherboard based but those designs are almost 10 years old and the PC motherboards in those have been revved more than once.

The recent products of Datasat are all built on a non PC platforms. Yes, as new tech comes along there will sometimes be PCBs to swap out in the RS20i but the base platform will persist and will never be found on an electronics recycling heap. To validate my point I only need to point you to the Theta Casablanca that is built on a similar platform. The Casa first went into production nearly 20 years ago but is still going strong.

Just my 2 cents. Discount at will ...
_______________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
Carl_Huff is offline  
post #1632 of 1711 Old 05-31-2014, 07:20 AM
VGI
Advanced Member
 
VGI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Central NJ
Posts: 535
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

So its finally going to be the "future proof" processor so many companies have promised for the past 15 years? smile.gif

The theta Casablanca has proven full upgradability for almost 20 years and still going strong.

The only other truly capable pre pro that has a upgrade path is the rs20i

I have both and they are both top of the heap for sure ..

Pretty much every other pre pro and I mean every single one is considered a throw away. It's sad to say but it's true , there's many 10k pre pros people are buying which will be scrap.

Theta has cb4 with 4k and Dirac now and will have atmos I am sure soon and datasat has Dirac and auro and I'm sure atmos at some point also.

Its awesome that there is two great fully upgradable solutions people can buy and potentially have these for life !!

Have fun
Craig
VGI is offline  
post #1633 of 1711 Old 05-31-2014, 08:40 AM
AVS Special Member
 
blazar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 2,247
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 234
I excluded theta because it lacks the channel capability i want. I want at least 16 channel pre, plus at least 2 manageable subwoofer outputs. Once you hear that many channels, the experience is unmistakably better than 7 channel no matter how much you paid for it.

Theta needs a strategy immediately for that so I hope they are working on casablanca 4 already.

Blazar!
blazar is offline  
post #1634 of 1711 Old 05-31-2014, 11:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
DanFrancis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Aurora, IL, USA
Posts: 1,845
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Channel count is on the minds at Theta, I can guarantee that. John and I had a long conversation about how one would implement the inevitable additional channels in the Casablanca chassis- bouncing various options back and forth. There is not a "perfect" solution for Theta at this point, just compromises where some are better than others- much like Trinnov and Datasat encounter with their solutions.

If you want 32 channels of XLR your chassis is enormous, use breakout cables and you'll end up with at least a percentage of customers complaining about the need to utilize specialty cables or an extra connection. Those two options are really the only practical ones you have at the moment.

Dan

Dan Francis
Head of Sales US
C'SEED Entertainment Systems GMBH
www.cseed.tv
df@cseed.tv
DanFrancis is offline  
post #1635 of 1711 Old 06-01-2014, 01:24 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 8,133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Huff View Post

The Casa first went into production nearly 20 years ago but is still going strong.
Hi Carl,

I asked this a while back when the upgrade topic was on the burner, but never saw an answer. Just how much of the original Casablanca remains in use in the CBIV?
Roger Dressler is offline  
post #1636 of 1711 Old 06-01-2014, 08:33 AM
Advanced Member
 
Carl_Huff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 616
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Hi Carl,

I asked this a while back when the upgrade topic was on the burner, but never saw an answer. Just how much of the original Casablanca remains in use in the CBIV?

I don't actually know. Perhaps someone who owns one will tell us.
______________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
Carl_Huff is offline  
post #1637 of 1711 Old 06-01-2014, 08:42 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
CINERAMAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: everywhere
Posts: 12,415
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Huff View Post

And don't forget DTS ...

DTS has announced DTS-UHD as their object oriented 3D solution, altho it is unclear to me exactly what it is.

http://www.dts.com/corporate/press-releases/2013/01/dts-announces-next-generation-audio-solution-for-ultra-hd-content.aspx

_____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff


DTD-UHD also has a big ace in the hole: it's up-conversion logic is the best up-conversion I have heard giving the impression of multiple super-steered apparent objects -OFF a 7.1 track.

I heard this at cinemacon in an open canopy show floor booth with some 30 odd small bracket mounted speakers but the sonic pirouettes were there in full glory. It sounded almost like Atmos but when I asked time and again it was up-converted 7.1!

This proves my point, like when we used the 22.10 speaker/channel trinnov (with heights 3D remapped) that as long as the master is made from atmos a competent imaging rich facsimile can be extracted via up-conversion.. The difference here the more powerful quested speakers were throwing a freight train overhead, but the USPL demo while not packing any punch did have objects panning sufficiently close to the personal space invasion I heard at Dolby in multiple pseudo -objects.
CINERAMAX is offline  
post #1638 of 1711 Old 06-01-2014, 09:20 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
CINERAMAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: everywhere
Posts: 12,415
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

Channel count is on the minds at Theta, I can guarantee that. John and I had a long conversation about how one would implement the inevitable additional channels in the Casablanca chassis- bouncing various options back and forth. There is not a "perfect" solution for Theta at this point, just compromises where some are better than others- much like Trinnov and Datasat encounter with their solutions.

If you want 32 channels of XLR your chassis is enormous, use breakout cables and you'll end up with at least a percentage of customers complaining about the need to utilize specialty cables or an extra connection. Those two options are really the only practical ones you have at the moment.

Dan

Stacking units is now a competitive feature in the datasat and trinnov.Insistence on an xlr pane without a breakout box is a lame excuse. If a client on a 30 channel sound system complains about buying the extra breakout cable/box solution tel them to take a hike and change hobbies.biggrin.gif

While I still cannot give the cineramax goodhousekeeping seal of approval to Auro(discreete-upconvert yes) due to the 30 foot violin effect, the Datasat and new trinnov pieces are format neutral.

Few here have done the speaker channel calculations for atmos, a speaker every meter and a half 4.5 feet will yield a speaker count of 30-32 speakers in a 30 foot room and eat up 60-64 channels in a 50 footer.

Here is the setup in the Barco three image circus at cinemacon. Stacked datasats in24 channels oemd to Barco (and that one has direac in all 24 channels). This is a simple latch in the datasat software for the 2 to behave as one (this may be very handy on future ULTRA-DTS and Atmos home setups).Very cool.



This room was replete with speakers: (along that right wall shown emanated the illusive 30 foot wide violin I have referred to 2 times).



What I learnt from all the demos at cinemacon either qsc or christie vive or Crown JBL. Even at the dolby atmos core facility is that they are preserving sound system technology inherited from the optical print era, that and the fact that larger rooms are harder to make sound good. But the epiphany of me flying from the Quested 22.10 channel system into the Dolby Hall (6/10ths of the globe away) gave me a unique insight as to what needs to happen; thus my latest quest.

Let me dig up the amplifiers at the Barco preview. They were QSC or Crown let's see. I look for it now....

Ok Crown JBL . Go figure a combination badly in need of audiophile performance.I bet they are using 18 gauge cable too.



So this has nothing to do with Auro or Atmos because the same grit and compression distortion evidenced it self at both of these 64 speaker setups, the Barco experience at Cinemacon in a large theater and Gravity premiere at Dolby Labs in the valley.

These theater sound system manufacturers need to understand what has been accomplished in large scale sound reinforcement venues in London, study the AMT drivers, study the high spl high fidelity bass-mid drivers, and taking the freaking grit out of the sound, it is completely gratuitous, fatiguing and UNACCEPTABLE! Enough of it!
CINERAMAX is offline  
post #1639 of 1711 Old 06-05-2014, 03:21 AM
Member
 
Bassfeen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: UK & Asia
Posts: 137
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Sorry to mess up this convo, Needed some help,

I have just manage to find time to setup my home theatre system in a different house. I wanted some advise on how to use the channel delay.

I am 5.6 Meters away from the front left and right speaker would I put in channel delay 560ms?

Home Theatre: Onkyo PR SC 5509, ATI 3007 Danley SH50, Danley SH69, Danley SH100 (Rear), Seaton Subwoofer X 2, Custom Made Acoustic Panels and Bass Traps.

2 Channel System: Philharmonics 3, GD Audio Master 2 Mono Blocks, GD Audio Master 1 Pre-Amp. Wireworld Eclipse Gold 5 Silver XLR, Clear Day...
Bassfeen is offline  
post #1640 of 1711 Old 06-05-2014, 03:32 AM
Senior Member
 
stephenbr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 397
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 19
My understanding is that 1" = 1 ms. So 5.6m = 18.4" = 18.4 ms.
stephenbr is online now  
post #1641 of 1711 Old 06-05-2014, 03:39 AM
Member
 
Interleave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 57
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenbr View Post

My understanding is that 1" = 1 ms. So 5.6m = 18.4" = 18.4 ms.


Stephen, you have divided a bit too far and calculated 18.4' its actually 220.5" = 220.5ms

Actually isnt it 1ms per 12 inches? therefore correct in your calculation?
Interleave is offline  
post #1642 of 1711 Old 06-05-2014, 03:41 AM
Senior Member
 
Wookii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 200
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Speed of sound is 340 metres per second. So 5.6 metres is 16.4ms is it not?
Wookii is offline  
post #1643 of 1711 Old 06-05-2014, 03:43 AM
Senior Member
 
3ll3d00d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 277
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 21

You can use this calculator - http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-soundpath.htm (NB: doesn't seem to work in chrome on my computer but does in IE & Opera) - to confirm that Wookii is correct

3ll3d00d is online now  
post #1644 of 1711 Old 06-05-2014, 03:52 AM
Senior Member
 
stephenbr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 397
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 19
My bad - used wrong symbol! I like Wooki's easy way to calculate. It also removes the 10% error that applies in my simplistic conversion.
stephenbr is online now  
post #1645 of 1711 Old 06-05-2014, 10:13 AM
Advanced Member
 
djnickuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 690
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassfeen View Post

Sorry to mess up this convo, Needed some help,

I have just manage to find time to setup my home theatre system in a different house. I wanted some advise on how to use the channel delay.

I am 5.6 Meters away from the front left and right speaker would I put in channel delay 560ms?

Well as others have said, 1 foot per ms. So 18.37ms. But you don't just put that number is as the delay.

What you need to do is find your reference speaker, ie the speaker which is furthest away from the main listening point. This is called the reference speaker.

You then subtract each other speaker from this.

So, for eg, let's say your furthest speaker is 20ft away. This speaker gets set to 0 delay. To work out the remaining speakers you take your 20ft or 20ms and subtract the next speakers distance. Say 15ft. So speaker 2 is 5ms. So 5 gets put in as delay, and so on.

But you must remember that any speaker with a dsp, for eg, a subwoofer, will impose a propagation delay onto the signal. So actual physical measurements will not be correct. An eg of this is my PHC pro Audio subs. The dsp adds about 40ms delay.

Best to use REW with a loop back cable connected to properly work out the distances.
djnickuk is offline  
post #1646 of 1711 Old 06-05-2014, 10:20 AM
AVS Special Member
 
hifiaudio2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,521
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 57
Did I read correctly that Dirac version 2 is going to calculate these for you?
hifiaudio2 is online now  
post #1647 of 1711 Old 06-05-2014, 10:41 AM
Advanced Member
 
djnickuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 690
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Yes it is supposed to. But I think I read that it doesn't work on the theta cb4? Either way I would still do it by using REW and loop back.
djnickuk is offline  
post #1648 of 1711 Old 06-05-2014, 03:12 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
thebland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Detroit, Michigan USA
Posts: 23,566
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 85
Is DIRAC 2 supposed to be integrated into future RS-20i SSPs?

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
thebland is online now  
post #1649 of 1711 Old 06-05-2014, 03:15 PM
Member
 
dschulz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 67
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Is DIRAC 2 supposed to be integrated into future RS-20i SSPs?

Yes, we're working on integrating Dirac 2 into the RS20i.
dschulz is offline  
post #1650 of 1711 Old 06-05-2014, 03:33 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
thebland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Detroit, Michigan USA
Posts: 23,566
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by dschulz View Post

Yes, we're working on integrating Dirac 2 into the RS20i.

Would this be expected on units that will be shipping with Auro? If not, updatable at home?

Thanks!

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
thebland is online now  
Reply Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+)

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off