Official DataSat RS20i thread. (Setup Tips, Questions,General Info, etc) - Page 59 - AVS Forum

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Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+)

Rod#S's Avatar Rod#S
05:47 PM Liked: 29
post #1741 of 1997
08-13-2014 | Posts: 1,769
Joined: Jun 2003
Seems I already asked this a few months ago Any changes since then?


B&W 802D LR
HTM1D Centre
804s Sides
805D rears
SCMS Side heights
805D Front heights
Sig 8NT VOG
2 PHC LFC 15-sm subs up front
2 Aerial SW12s at the rear
JapanDave's Avatar JapanDave
05:57 PM Liked: 104
post #1742 of 1997
08-13-2014 | Posts: 2,407
Joined: Jul 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
Sounds like I am good but how do you navigate to see the latest firmware version?

Thanks!
Go to update screen and it will tell you which version you have.
Carl_Huff's Avatar Carl_Huff
07:09 PM Liked: 31
post #1743 of 1997
08-13-2014 | Posts: 630
Joined: Feb 2009
theBland,

Just to be sure I'll be bringing the latest firmware with me the day of the installation.
_____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
djnickuk's Avatar djnickuk
03:26 AM Liked: 39
post #1744 of 1997
08-14-2014 | Posts: 836
Joined: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post
Seems I already asked this a few months ago Any changes since then?


B&W 802D LR
HTM1D Centre
804s Sides
805D rears
SCMS Side heights
805D Front heights
Sig 8NT VOG
2 PHC LFC 15-sm subs up front
2 Aerial SW12s at the rear
A few changes

803d sides
805d side heights
So the only remaining non diamond speaker is the 8NT VOG. Didn't fancy hanging an 802d from the ceiling. Lol
thebland's Avatar thebland
05:10 AM Liked: 172
post #1745 of 1997
08-14-2014 | Posts: 24,049
Joined: Jan 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Huff View Post
theBland,

Just to be sure I'll be bringing the latest firmware with me the day of the installation.
_____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff

Sounds great. I appreciate it! Still have some prep work as the theater mad my family room next door are disasters!
CINERAMAX's Avatar CINERAMAX
07:05 AM Liked: 85
post #1746 of 1997
08-14-2014 | Posts: 12,827
Joined: Sep 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post
A few changes

803d sides
805d side heights
So the only remaining non diamond speaker is the 8NT VOG. Didn't fancy hanging an 802d from the ceiling. Lol
I would say that is sufficiently diamonised..

Must sound fantastic. Very transparent. Just careful on them DTS-HD transients.** Well it seems from Jeffs screenshots that dynamic range control is part of Auro, that saves the day right there for tweeter based systems.
CINERAMAX's Avatar CINERAMAX
09:43 AM Liked: 85
post #1747 of 1997
08-14-2014 | Posts: 12,827
Joined: Sep 2000
Ok so for AURO folks that do not want to invest in an extra heights center channel here is my question/quick fix (if you have 2 channels left free).




Create 2 more channels on above screen.

Take Height Center channel Height and split it and add to Left Height Channel and Right Height Channel.

Someone please try and report
Attached: New Auro.jpg (114.4 KB) 
djnickuk's Avatar djnickuk
10:50 AM Liked: 39
post #1748 of 1997
08-14-2014 | Posts: 836
Joined: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
Ok so for AURO folks that do not want to invest in an extra heights center channel here is my question/quick fix (if you have 2 channels left free).




Create 2 more channels on above screen.

Take Height Center channel Height and split it and add to Left Height Channel and Right Height Channel.

Someone please try and report
It doesn't work like that. Well if I'm understanding what you mean. You could of course split the centre height to the left and right height channels, but you'd be taking them away from their left and right height input. The only way you can do what you suggest is to add an extra 2 speakers, ie, have 2 front left heights and 2 front right channels.

Can I ask people with auro to try playing back 2 channel non music content thru any of the auro settings. As on mine this is the biggest problem. It doesn't extrapolate the speech and send it to the centre channel. It keeps it in the left and right and also sounds out of phase. Most odd.
djnickuk's Avatar djnickuk
10:53 AM Liked: 39
post #1749 of 1997
08-14-2014 | Posts: 836
Joined: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
I would say that is sufficiently diamonised..

Must sound fantastic. Very transparent. Just careful on them DTS-HD transients.** Well it seems from Jeffs screenshots that dynamic range control is part of Auro, that saves the day right there for tweeter based systems.
Yes it sounds amazing. But where I am right now, I live in a terraced house and can not listen up at reference levels. So i have my RS20i calibrated to 85db at -10 on the fader. Most of my movie listening is done at -30 to -25.

The only area I think the diamonds fall down on is mid range dynamics. But I find the bass very natural and the treble so sweet and airy.
RUR's Avatar RUR
11:52 AM Liked: 77
post #1750 of 1997
08-14-2014 | Posts: 2,387
Joined: Feb 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post
Routings and crossovers
Nick, what are the Xover filter choices e.g. LR/Butterworth/Bessel/etc. and 2nd/3rd/4th etc. order? Filter frequency in 1dB increments?
djnickuk's Avatar djnickuk
12:26 PM Liked: 39
post #1751 of 1997
08-14-2014 | Posts: 836
Joined: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by RUR View Post
Nick, what are the Xover filter choices e.g. LR/Butterworth/Bessel/etc. and 2nd/3rd/4th etc. order? Filter frequency in 1dB increments?
No choice of xovers. I am not sure what xover it uses. All you can adjust is the LPF AND HPF and lower the spl by 0.5db increments down to minus 10. You can not raise the spl above 0 using this screen. I guess this is to save clipping if using eq / Dirac.
Rod#S's Avatar Rod#S
01:01 PM Liked: 29
post #1752 of 1997
08-14-2014 | Posts: 1,769
Joined: Jun 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post
A few changes

803d sides
805d side heights
So the only remaining non diamond speaker is the 8NT VOG. Didn't fancy hanging an 802d from the ceiling. Lol

LOL..Yeah I wouldn't want to be the one sitting underneath a ceiling mounted 802 either


So the HTM1D is obviously a Gen1 diamond as its the only time it ever existed and the 805D's are Gen2 as they did not exist in Gen1. What about your 802's and newly added 803's, both Gen1 as well or are they all from Gen2 like the 805's?
djnickuk's Avatar djnickuk
01:12 PM Liked: 39
post #1753 of 1997
08-14-2014 | Posts: 836
Joined: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post
LOL..Yeah I wouldn't want to be the one sitting underneath a ceiling mounted 802 either


So the HTM1D is obviously a Gen1 diamond as its the only time it ever existed and the 805D's are Gen2 as they did not exist in Gen1. What about your 802's and newly added 803's, both Gen1 as well or are they all from Gen2 like the 805's?
It's still slightly unnerving sitting underneath my VOG 8 NT in my custom speaker box as it comes in at 50kg.

And yes all speakers except 805s are D1s.
thebland's Avatar thebland
02:53 PM Liked: 172
post #1754 of 1997
08-14-2014 | Posts: 24,049
Joined: Jan 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post
It doesn't work like that. Well if I'm understanding what you mean. You could of course split the centre height to the left and right height channels, but you'd be taking them away from their left and right height input. The only way you can do what you suggest is to add an extra 2 speakers, ie, have 2 front left heights and 2 front right channels.

Can I ask people with auro to try playing back 2 channel non music content thru any of the auro settings. As on mine this is the biggest problem. It doesn't extrapolate the speech and send it to the centre channel. It keeps it in the left and right and also sounds out of phase. Most odd.
Hmm. Seemed logical but perhaps, not.

Hmm. I would think Datasat or AURO could / should be able to remedy this... (or pehaps they have and it's not yet available).
RUR's Avatar RUR
04:13 PM Liked: 77
post #1755 of 1997
08-14-2014 | Posts: 2,387
Joined: Feb 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post
No choice of xovers. I am not sure what xover it uses. All you can adjust is the LPF AND HPF and lower the spl by 0.5db increments down to minus 10. You can not raise the spl above 0 using this screen. I guess this is to save clipping if using eq / Dirac.
Thanks, Nick. How many ways can one construct the Xover network i.e. 2 way (Low/High), 3 way (Low/Mid/High)?
stephenbr's Avatar stephenbr
05:08 PM Liked: 22
post #1756 of 1997
08-14-2014 | Posts: 460
Joined: Jan 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by RUR View Post
Thanks, Nick. How many ways can one construct the Xover network i.e. 2 way (Low/High), 3 way (Low/Mid/High)?
Not that I have done it but I understand you can construct the Xover network as many ways as you want within the limit of the 16 'channels' of the unit. For example if you have a 3 way Xover for L&R then you would have used 6 of the available 16 channels for those 2 speakers.
Rod#S's Avatar Rod#S
06:11 PM Liked: 29
post #1757 of 1997
08-14-2014 | Posts: 1,769
Joined: Jun 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post
It's still slightly unnerving sitting underneath my VOG 8 NT in my custom speaker box as it comes in at 50kg.

And yes all speakers except 805s are D1s.

Whoa! 50kg, that's some serious weight for the ceiling.


Thanks for the info on the speaker setup. It's always interesting coming across others running a lot of the diamond series or D1 series.
GGA's Avatar GGA
06:46 PM Liked: 14
post #1758 of 1997
08-14-2014 | Posts: 717
Joined: Dec 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
Hmm. Seemed logical but perhaps, not.

Hmm. I would think Datasat or AURO could / should be able to remedy this... (or pehaps they have and it's not yet available).
The Routing/Crossovers in the RS20i is not designed to combine signals. It would be an unusual feature for any processor. That is usually done in the setup where the speaker layout is chosen.

However, externally combining signals I believe is pretty straightforward. You just need a small box with two xlr inputs and one xlr output plus a resistor. Mark Seaton could build one in his sleep.

You then follow djnick's suggestion and Copy the Center High to another channel but instead of sending to a new pair of speakers you externally combine the Center High with the Left High and the Copied Center High with the Right High.

But if you don't specify a Center High won't the signal go the L/R Highs anyway?
thebland's Avatar thebland
07:11 PM Liked: 172
post #1759 of 1997
08-14-2014 | Posts: 24,049
Joined: Jan 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGA View Post
But if you don't specify a Center High won't the signal go the L/R Highs anyway?
That would be logical. I'm not sure if you can de-select a front height.
sdurani's Avatar sdurani
08:31 PM Liked: 1043
post #1760 of 1997
08-14-2014 | Posts: 19,985
Joined: Oct 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGA View Post
But if you don't specify a Center High won't the signal go the L/R Highs anyway?
This is where the commercial cinema roots of Datasat hardware and Auro software rears its head.

When was the last time a commercial cinema needed to phantom the centre channel to the L/R speakers? Has Auro ever needed to extract a centre output from stereo music in a commercial cinema? No surprise then that these particular functions will need some massaging to work properly.

It's the same reason why bass management was relatively new to Datasat, when we'd been taking it for granted on consumer gear for decades. Not because they were behind the times or anything like that, but only because bass management wasn't needed in commercial cinemas.
CINERAMAX's Avatar CINERAMAX
10:03 PM Liked: 85
post #1761 of 1997
08-14-2014 | Posts: 12,827
Joined: Sep 2000
at least now we know why it is still in beta....

I swear however that i read in one firmware upgrade of the channel mixing capability, that to me is 2>1, no?
thebland's Avatar thebland
05:42 AM Liked: 172
post #1762 of 1997
08-15-2014 | Posts: 24,049
Joined: Jan 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
at least now we know why it is still in beta....

I swear however that i read in one firmware upgrade of the channel mixing capability, that to me is 2>1, no?
Well. I'll wait for my install to see what happens, but hopefully Datasat is on it. I haven't seen many (if any theaters) that are incorporating Center Heights. I could, but it seems redundant and would create, IMO, an esthetic issue not to mention the cost. My Front Heights were not cheap!
djnickuk's Avatar djnickuk
06:27 AM Liked: 39
post #1763 of 1997
08-15-2014 | Posts: 836
Joined: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
Well. I'll wait for my install to see what happens, but hopefully Datasat is on it. I haven't seen many (if any theaters) that are incorporating Center Heights. I could, but it seems redundant and would create, IMO, an esthetic issue not to mention the cost. My Front Heights were not cheap!
Well all commercial Auro cinemas with Auro above 9.1 will be using centre heights.

The thing with the lack of phantom centre height really isn't that much of an issue right now. The only real content you'll be loosing by not having a centre height would be on a native auro recording in 11.1. Which as we know do not exist as yet, well on the BD platform.

With the upmixer whilst you'll not be getting that info from the centre height you are also not loosing anything as it will be info that was bled from the main centre channel.

So, right now, the only way to get a phantom centre is to use the described method using an external 2into 1 box. As the only options on the Datasat for auro configs in Bass management are 9.1 10.1 11.1 and 13.1. So to choose a setting where content wouldn't be lost by lack of centre height would be to use 10.1 but then your rear info will be sent to sides.

And in response to your statement about using VOG in a small room and being distracting. This is far from the truth. I have only 3m width in my room and my VOG is at or under 6ft above my head and 3-4 foot from the sides. Most of the time I actually have to mute all other channels to hear that the VOG is operational. But if you mute the VOG the sound just isn't as immersive. So i would def choose VOG over rear heights that are duplications of the side heights.

I'll post this on the other forum as you raised some interesting points.
JapanDave's Avatar JapanDave
03:52 PM Liked: 104
post #1764 of 1997
08-17-2014 | Posts: 2,407
Joined: Jul 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post


Why is the screen blue? Is that a setting that can be changed?
djnickuk's Avatar djnickuk
09:06 PM Liked: 39
post #1765 of 1997
08-17-2014 | Posts: 836
Joined: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post
Why is the screen blue? Is that a setting that can be changed?
They have updated the GUI. This is the new colour.
JapanDave's Avatar JapanDave
05:20 AM Liked: 104
post #1766 of 1997
08-18-2014 | Posts: 2,407
Joined: Jul 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post
They have updated the GUI. This is the new colour.
My machine says I have the latest firmware and I don't have this screen. What is the latest firmware?
stephenbr's Avatar stephenbr
05:24 AM Liked: 22
post #1767 of 1997
08-18-2014 | Posts: 460
Joined: Jan 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post
My machine says I have the latest firmware and I don't have this screen. What is the latest firmware?
It is the firmware associated with the Auro 3D upgrade (which brings with it the Dirac 2 capability as well).
JapanDave's Avatar JapanDave
05:35 AM Liked: 104
post #1768 of 1997
08-18-2014 | Posts: 2,407
Joined: Jul 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenbr View Post
It is the firmware associated with the Auro 3D upgrade (which brings with it the Dirac 2 capability as well).
When did that go on sale? I have to update the original post, not to mention get my upgrade package.
stephenbr's Avatar stephenbr
05:38 AM Liked: 22
post #1769 of 1997
08-18-2014 | Posts: 460
Joined: Jan 2004
Not sure if it is officially released - some owners have a beta version but a final release appears to be just around the corner. I plan to get mine in a couple of months.
thebland's Avatar thebland
06:19 AM Liked: 172
post #1770 of 1997
08-18-2014 | Posts: 24,049
Joined: Jan 2001
Regarding the up mixing. 9.1 does phantom center, I don't see why 11-1 or 14-1 COUKDNT as an option? Same would go with native content. Hopefully simple and a fix comes sooner than later...

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