Official DataSat RS20i thread. (Setup Tips, Questions,General Info, etc) - Page 60 - AVS Forum
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post #1771 of 1789 Old 08-18-2014, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post
Regarding the up mixing. 9.1 does phantom center, I don't see why 11-1 or 14-1 COUKDNT as an option? Same would go with native content. Hopefully simple and a fix comes sooner than later...
Well 9.1 and 10.1 don't really do phantom centre. In the case of encoded content, there is nothing mixed down to the centre height and with auromatic it simply doesn't create centre height information.

Not quite the same as a phantom centre.

But yes both Datasat and auro are looking into this.
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post #1772 of 1789 Old 08-18-2014, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post
When did that go on sale? I have to update the original post, not to mention get my upgrade package.
I paid for my update months ago, around feb time.

You'll need to get intouch with your dealer to pay for the update. You'll then be asked to mail your dealer or Datasat your rs20i serial number. They will then send you an authorisation key and a link to the firmware.

But I think as soon as the proper, full non beta auro codec is released there will be a firmware update available to all from the main server and this will contain the auro updates. But these updates will only be activated once you put in your unique feature key.
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post #1773 of 1789 Old 08-19-2014, 04:32 PM
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From an HK High End Show where both Auro3D and Atmos where show.




and finally

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post #1774 of 1789 Old 08-21-2014, 08:53 AM
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Gratuitous cross post:
Field Report from Jeff's calibrations yesterday. Congrats Jeff!

"Success!

I really like AURO-3D. We started working right after lunch and didn't wrap until late, late night early morning. However it was very much worth the effort. We had 6 active subwoofers in that room arranged as 2 x mono with BM. I convinced Mark Seaton to turn off the DSP correction that he usually applies to his subs and he gracefully complied. Dirac did a great job. We measured the results using a TEF measurement system that Mark had brought. We were pleased to discover that the subs were flat to 5Hz in front and flat to 10Hz in back at reference levels. You just don't get better than that!

Those Quested loudspeakers melded well with Mark's subwoofers. The dynamics and detail of the end product was truly outstanding. We listened to several samples from live concert recordings to U571 and War of the Worlds. It was all good. Did I mention that I really like AURO?? Ha, ha ...

Best Regards,
Carl Huff"
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post #1775 of 1789 Old 08-21-2014, 08:54 AM
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Well, Auro is the real deal. I'll have more to say later but the Quested/DATASAT combo is a winner and DTS MA 7.1 / TRUE HD 7.1 simply doesn't it anymore.

We had a very good install last night with Mark Seaton and Carl Huff working 12 hours to dial in the system.

As good as the equipment is, the before and after listening with the two calibrators is what clearly made the difference.

I am so pleased, I'm actually still in disbelief as to to the sound in the room. I can't imagine better - anywhere. What a job those two did. Marks' subwoofers are a true benchmark. Pounding tight, punch. I am disconnecting my Buttkickers and bass shakers.

Carl's expertise and knowledge, along with his wife Elena, really brought the piece to life. His contacts at DATASAT were another plus. I was really impressed with everything that went into the set up and calibration. Great guy. Enjoyed a nice meal, too.

Mark is just amazing. He needs to move into calibration. His ear and quick decisions were simply amazing. What a talent!

More to come...

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #1776 of 1789 Old 08-21-2014, 11:11 AM
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It's pretty dammed good isn't it, Jeff.

Enjoy your new and improved cinema room!
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post #1777 of 1789 Old 08-21-2014, 08:15 PM
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A question or two:

1. What are most folks using to get accurate speaker delay/distance? In my case, I can use the distances from my Integra but don't want to lug it around doing other installs. Someone suggested REW. How does that work? Measured physical distance won't work in my room since all speakers have DSP engines (which add to the physical distance) in them and many other rooms have some speakers (usually subs) that may have DSP's as well.

2. Probably a dumb questions, but ......With my Integra, Audyssey sets up so that "reference" is set to zero on the volume knob. (I usually listen to movies at 5 to 10 below reference). What is the procedure for trim set up so that there is a "reference" position and how does one know what that reference position is on the volume control knob??

Last edited by audioguy; 08-21-2014 at 08:58 PM. Reason: to
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post #1778 of 1789 Old Yesterday, 07:15 AM
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Is there a more current version of the RS-20i manual than the one on the DATASAT website?

Not looking for Auro info, just want to know if there is a newer version before I go through it. THe one on the website is dated Dec., 2012.

Thanks!

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #1779 of 1789 Old Yesterday, 07:35 AM
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Hey Chuck you should probably go over to the REW forums on Hometheatershack and seek out JTwalden (the person who helped me time align my subs in the thread I mentioned on the Seaton forums). I cannot do the distance setting procedure because I dont have the proper external soundcard / loopback setup. You will need that hardware. They can point you to documentation or walk you through it.
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post #1780 of 1789 Old Yesterday, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post
Hey Chuck you should probably go over to the REW forums on Hometheatershack and seek out JTwalden (the person who helped me time align my subs in the thread I mentioned on the Seaton forums). I cannot do the distance setting procedure because I dont have the proper external soundcard / loopback setup. You will need that hardware. They can point you to documentation or walk you through it.
Thanks. By the way, the last post I made on the REW thread some time ago has to date not been responded to and it was about this subject !!

I spent last Friday getting trained on the Datasat RS20i. It is amazing and while not yet perfect, the software and hardware architecture will allow it to just keep improving.

In my opinion, it is the high end SSP to beat. Hard to tell what is going on with Theta and I am not sure of the quantity of resources they have behind the product nor how quickly they can respond to the many upcoming changes in this area. Datasat has the commercial theater business to support them (since the high end audio business is a hard place to get rich) and there is huge overlap between the two products. So I would be much more comfortable going the Datasat route (but probably won't since I have not seen a 75% off sale !!).

Then going up the line to the $40,000 (ADA) price point, while I am sure it is a great product, $40,000 is also a great amount of money.

We will have to see if anything comes out of CEDIA to compete but I doubt it.

Thanks again.
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post #1781 of 1789 Old Yesterday, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Thanks. By the way, the last post I made on the REW thread some time ago has to date not been responded to and it was about this subject !!

I spent last Friday getting trained on the Datasat RS20i. It is amazing and while not yet perfect, the software and hardware architecture will allow it to just keep improving.

In my opinion, it is the high end SSP to beat. Hard to tell what is going on with Theta and I am not sure of the quantity of resources they have behind the product nor how quickly they can respond to the many upcoming changes in this area. Datasat has the commercial theater business to support them (since the high end audio business is a hard place to get rich) and there is huge overlap between the two products. So I would be much more comfortable going the Datasat route (but probably won't since I have not seen a 75% off sale !!).

Then going up the line to the $40,000 (ADA) price point, while I am sure it is a great product, $40,000 is also a great amount of money.

We will have to see if anything comes out of CEDIA to compete but I doubt it.

Thanks again.
Pass on some tidbits for set up!!

I will get to watch my first movie with the combo on Saturday and can't wait. Carl had mentioned they have a group over at Datasat that is very involved and amped up on making the product the best it can be. So far, so good.

I think that as this is similarly priced to the Theta CB IV, the Theta will simply go away. Even Craig is trying out a RS-20i. He's a smart guy and likely sees the writing on the wall. The Theta thread is a ghost town and only one or two have a CB IV and none even discuss it. Obviously, it is a failure and there is likely no possible way they will ever go past 7 channels.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #1782 of 1789 Old Yesterday, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
A question or two:

1. What are most folks using to get accurate speaker delay/distance? In my case, I can use the distances from my Integra but don't want to lug it around doing other installs. Someone suggested REW. How does that work? Measured physical distance won't work in my room since all speakers have DSP engines (which add to the physical distance) in them and many other rooms have some speakers (usually subs) that may have DSP's as well.

2. Probably a dumb questions, but ......With my Integra, Audyssey sets up so that "reference" is set to zero on the volume knob. (I usually listen to movies at 5 to 10 below reference). What is the procedure for trim set up so that there is a "reference" position and how does one know what that reference position is on the volume control knob??

I use REW using my external mic pre that allows for a loop back connection. With the loop back in place and the correct settings enabled with REW ( there is a tick box in one of the setup screens that enables loop back timing reference ).

What one really should do is run the soundcard directly into each amp input and measure, same with subs, directly in to the subs will give the most exact distance or time of flight data.

But I cheat and use the Datasats routing page and shift output channels around. What this does is induce progagation delay but this will be the same for each channel, so by taking this into account you can get a really good and acurate distance / delay setting.

So I run an RCA cable from my sound card to the stereo analogue input of the RS20i. Select this input. Ensure all processing is off.

Then I measure the front left channel. And then go on to shift each channel upto the left and measure them. This will then give you a list of distances that included direct time of flight and and propagation delay. I do the same for the subs.

Once I have these distances, in ms. I find the furthest distance or highest number and this gets called the reference speaker. This gets set to 0 delay in the delays page.

You then subtract each other channels distance from this reference speaker. So let's say the furthest speaker is 20ms. The next speaker say is 15ms. The delay setting for this speaker will be 5ms. And so on.

But you are right in saying that the dsp adds delay. In my system my subs are physically 15ft away, or 15ms. But actually time including delays is around 48ms. This makes my subs the furthest speakers or reference speakers from which all other speaker distances are calculated.

Interms of reference spl settings, this may be dependant on headroom available, but the original manual I think states to set the fader to -7 and calibrate each channel to 85 db with the sides set to 82db and the subs set to 92db.

I think for the home however I think they recommend setting the fader to -15.

So if you set reference to -15 then if the output of the content is at the same level as the rs20i test tones then you know that -15 will be reference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
Is there a more current version of the RS-20i manual than the one on the DATASAT website?

Not looking for Auro info, just want to know if there is a newer version before I go through it. THe one on the website is dated Dec., 2012.

Thanks!
I'm not sure if they have written a new one. I highly recommend you don't use the original as it just confuses matters.

I find the RS20i a doddle to use and setup. My biggest tip is to use the machine in expert nav mode. Go to system setup, then more, then select expert nav mode.
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post #1783 of 1789 Old Yesterday, 01:38 PM
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What is expert nav mode?

Thanks!

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #1784 of 1789 Old Yesterday, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post
So I run an RCA cable from my sound card to the stereo analogue input of the RS20i. Select this input. Ensure all processing is off.

Then I measure the front left channel. And then go on to shift each channel upto the left and measure them. This will then give you a list of distances that included direct time of flight and and propagation delay. I do the same for the subs.
Are you referring to the distance displayed in REW since I have not seen a distance displayed in the RS20i?
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post #1785 of 1789 Old Yesterday, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Are you referring to the distance displayed in REW since I have not seen a distance displayed in the RS20i?
Yes that is correct, you take the distance displayed within the REW info window and build yourself a table to enable you to quickly work out the delays required for inputting into the rs20i delay page.
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post #1786 of 1789 Old Yesterday, 02:41 PM
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What is expert nav mode?

Thanks!
Expert nav mode brings you to this menu structure when you hit the setup button on the home screen.
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post #1787 of 1789 Old Yesterday, 04:21 PM
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Yes that is correct, you take the distance displayed within the REW info window and build yourself a table to enable you to quickly work out the delays required for inputting into the rs20i delay page.
Thanks. Now I just need to relearn REW!!
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post #1788 of 1789 Old Yesterday, 04:23 PM
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Jeff: I hope Carl backed up your settings on a USB stick!!
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post #1789 of 1789 Old Yesterday, 04:49 PM
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Jeff: I hope Carl backed up your settings on a USB stick!!
He did email my file. Not a huge file either.
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