Official DataSat RS20i thread. (Setup Tips, Questions,General Info, etc) - Page 61 - AVS Forum

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Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+)

thebland's Avatar thebland
05:11 AM Liked: 172
post #1801 of 1997
08-27-2014 | Posts: 24,049
Joined: Jan 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
Do they offer training for non-installer individuals (i.e. users)? Although I plan to have my calibrator work his magic on the RS20i once I order one, I need to be able to modify as changes are made and channels are added.
Didn't you purchase a Theta CB??
BrolicBeast's Avatar BrolicBeast
06:36 AM Liked: 364
post #1802 of 1997
08-27-2014 | Posts: 3,068
Joined: Sep 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post
You should be able to buy the kit with training.

But one thing you should be aware of, if you change something or add more channels you can not just modify your current Dirac calibration and add more calibrated channels. You have to start the whole process again.

The only things you can modify once calibration is complete is the target curves and HF / LF roll off.

Mind you I am talking from my experience with Dirac v1 perhaps d2 will be different but I doubt it as in general this is how all other room corrections I have used have operated.
Thanks very much for the info....I have much to ponder. Any change requires at least a few hours of recalibration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
Didn't you purchase a Theta CB??
Sold it in Feb after analyzing Theta's HDMI adoption time (6 years?) and pondering the likely turn around time for Atmos (or even Heights/wides). Not waiting six years!
thebland's Avatar thebland
06:45 AM Liked: 172
post #1803 of 1997
08-27-2014 | Posts: 24,049
Joined: Jan 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
Thanks very much for the info....I have much to ponder. Any change requires at least a few hours of recalibration.



Sold it in Feb after analyzing Theta's HDMI adoption time (6 years?) and pondering the likely turn around time for Atmos (or even Heights/wides). Not waiting six years!
You must've been reading my Theta 'truths' (re: the long HDMI wait, etc). Fact is, I'd bet they haven't sold a single new CB IV in many months and after the upcoming CEDIA, when they announce (deflect) that there will never be an Atmos release, no Auro, and that DIRAC will never work as well as in the RS-20i, it will be pronounced dead (or rise again as a new model). There was so much anticipation of DIRAC in the CB before it was released but since then, few members have upgraded and those that did are conspicuously quiet.
audioguy's Avatar audioguy
07:35 AM Liked: 331
post #1804 of 1997
08-27-2014 | Posts: 3,558
Joined: Jun 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
You must've been reading my Theta 'truths' (re: the long HDMI wait, etc). Fact is, I'd bet they haven't sold a single new CB IV in many months and after the upcoming CEDIA, when they announce (deflect) that there will never be an Atmos release, no Auro, and that DIRAC will never work as well as in the RS-20i, it will be pronounced dead (or rise again as a new model). There was so much anticipation of DIRAC in the CB before it was released but since then, few members have upgraded and those that did are conspicuously quiet.
Maybe related to that is that the high end audio business in general and $20,000 SSP's is not a huge opportunity. The advantage that Datasat has over Theta is that if they never sell many RS20's they will still probably do fine as they are a major player in the commercial theater business.

My guess is that Theta has nowhere near the deep(er) pockets that Datasat has and nowhere near the man-power that Datasat has assigned to this product. Architecture and sound quality aside, I think the CB-IV or whatever comes next is DOA. Go read the Theta thread compared to the RS20 thread.

I'm sure the Theta fan boys will say otherwise but just look at how long Theta has taken to first get the CB IV out the door and now to still be trying to get Dirac to function correctly and consistently.

I'm not in the market for any $20,000 SSP's but if I were, Theta would not make the short list while Datasat would be on the top.

It really is sad since Theta made some great products in the "old days". Oh well!!!
BrolicBeast's Avatar BrolicBeast
08:15 AM Liked: 364
post #1805 of 1997
08-27-2014 | Posts: 3,068
Joined: Sep 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
You must've been reading my Theta 'truths' (re: the long HDMI wait, etc). Fact is, I'd bet they haven't sold a single new CB IV in many months and after the upcoming CEDIA, when they announce (deflect) that there will never be an Atmos release, no Auro, and that DIRAC will never work as well as in the RS-20i, it will be pronounced dead (or rise again as a new model). There was so much anticipation of DIRAC in the CB before it was released but since then, few members have upgraded and those that did are conspicuously quiet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Maybe related to that is that the high end audio business in general and $20,000 SSP's is not a huge opportunity. The advantage that Datasat has over Theta is that if they never sell many RS20's they will still probably do fine as they are a major player in the commercial theater business.

My guess is that Theta has nowhere near the deep(er) pockets that Datasat has and nowhere near the man-power that Datasat has assigned to this product. Architecture and sound quality aside, I think the CB-IV or whatever comes next is DOA. Go read the Theta thread compared to the RS20 thread.

I'm sure the Theta fan boys will say otherwise but just look at how long Theta has taken to first get the CB IV out the door and now to still be trying to get Dirac to function correctly and consistently.

I'm not in the market for any $20,000 SSP's but if I were, Theta would not make the short list while Datasat would be on the top.

It really is sad since Theta made some great products in the "old days". Oh well!!!
Yeah, I mean...as I put in my review (click to read: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/dbtreview.php?do=view_review&id=4580) the theta was the best sounding pre/pro I have ever heard. But folls like us need more than sound quality...we need ***features*** that match our HT passions.

I heard the Datasat a few times and it was glorious! Theta glorious in terms of sound quality? It was definitely in the same ballpark.
thebland's Avatar thebland
06:56 AM Liked: 172
post #1806 of 1997
08-28-2014 | Posts: 24,049
Joined: Jan 2001
After hearing comments on a loud fan, looks like the fan spped is variable (10% below pic) and there is virtually no noise.

The 1-ton minisplit in the equipment room is very effective at cooling the 9 amplifiers, Projector, Datasat and sources... all in a sealed equipment room 4 X 7 X 8.




One more of Mark Seaton placing the 2 rear F2 subs:


Marcus Gan's Avatar Marcus Gan
10:11 PM Liked: 12
post #1807 of 1997
08-29-2014 | Posts: 250
Joined: Dec 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
Yes. With Auro included.

So much to learn.

Can you set up a standard volume at start up, rather than where the volume was at last use?

Thanks!
Hi Thebland

I think you can set a start up or default volume. I can do it on my AP20.
Just go to Menu>fader control>Select Format. Back to home menu. Turn the knob to require volume and hold the format button for 5 sec.

BTW you have to set on each format.
Cheers
JapanDave's Avatar JapanDave
10:58 PM Liked: 104
post #1808 of 1997
08-29-2014 | Posts: 2,407
Joined: Jul 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
After hearing comments on a loud fan, looks like the fan spped is variable (10% below pic) and there is virtually no noise.

The 1-ton minisplit in the equipment room is very effective at cooling the 9 amplifiers, Projector, Datasat and sources... all in a sealed equipment room 4 X 7 X 8.




One more of Mark Seaton placing the 2 rear F2 subs:

How many subs did you go with Jeff?
thebland's Avatar thebland
05:21 AM Liked: 172
post #1809 of 1997
08-30-2014 | Posts: 24,049
Joined: Jan 2001
Hi Dave,

6 Submersives.



Thanks Marcus, I'll try that. Appreciate it!@
djnickuk's Avatar djnickuk
05:25 AM Liked: 39
post #1810 of 1997
08-30-2014 | Posts: 836
Joined: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Gan View Post
Hi Thebland

I think you can set a start up or default volume. I can do it on my AP20.
Just go to Menu>fader control>Select Format. Back to home menu. Turn the knob to require volume and hold the format button for 5 sec.

BTW you have to set on each format.
Cheers
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
Hi Dave,

6 Submersives.



Thanks Marcus, I'll try that. Appreciate it!@
We don't have those options on the RS20i!
Marcus Gan's Avatar Marcus Gan
06:24 AM Liked: 12
post #1811 of 1997
08-30-2014 | Posts: 250
Joined: Dec 2002
Just downloaded the rs20i manual yup don't have this function. Fade control. Btw if you guys find this useful just feedback to datasat and they can put it in the next firmware update.

I find this function very useful. I can set different volume for different formats. Eg for movie I set very loud and music average.
thebland's Avatar thebland
06:43 AM Liked: 172
post #1812 of 1997
08-30-2014 | Posts: 24,049
Joined: Jan 2001
I'm out if town now but am returning today where I'll be able to spend time. I thought Nick posted somewhere that you can set a start up volume or something similar? Maybe I'm incorrect but I was going to start going through threads and the manual.
Marcus Gan's Avatar Marcus Gan
07:10 AM Liked: 12
post #1813 of 1997
08-30-2014 | Posts: 250
Joined: Dec 2002
If AP20 can I don't see why RS20i can't since RS20i is a much better Processor with more bells & Whistle. Probably different way of setting the start up volume.

Carl will know better.
djnickuk's Avatar djnickuk
08:29 AM Liked: 39
post #1814 of 1997
08-30-2014 | Posts: 836
Joined: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
I'm out if town now but am returning today where I'll be able to spend time. I thought Nick posted somewhere that you can set a start up volume or something similar? Maybe I'm incorrect but I was going to start going through threads and the manual.
Currently, there is no way of setting the rs20i to use a start up volume. It will always revert to the state it was in when last turned on.

However, I did say you could create a macro within your control gear so that when turned on, after a delay, it could send a command t set the volume to whatever setting you like.

As said, if you hit Datasat tech with an email they can indeed add this to a firmware update.
djnickuk's Avatar djnickuk
10:16 AM Liked: 39
post #1815 of 1997
09-01-2014 | Posts: 836
Joined: Feb 2011
Happy days!

The latest revision of the beta auro update has phantom HC. Thanks for listening Datasat.
thebland's Avatar thebland
10:54 AM Liked: 172
post #1816 of 1997
09-01-2014 | Posts: 24,049
Joined: Jan 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post
Happy days!

The latest revision of the beta auro update has phantom HC. Thanks for listening Datasat.
Is it available to download? Where??

Awesome!! I've owned many SSPs but the fast turn around on requests amazes me. I complained about this 3 weeks ago when I first installed - an now a fix! Perhaps this was in the works prior, but who knew this was an issue before the Auro release!

I've yet to update my piece... is there an FAQ?
djnickuk's Avatar djnickuk
11:50 AM Liked: 39
post #1817 of 1997
09-01-2014 | Posts: 836
Joined: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
Is it available to download? Where??

Awesome!! I've owned many SSPs but the fast turn around on requests amazes me. I complained about this 3 weeks ago when I first installed - an now a fix! Perhaps this was in the works prior, but who knew this was an issue before the Auro release!

I've yet to update my piece... is there an FAQ?
It's on the secondary server but for some reason I could not get it to download properly, so I asked Datasat to mail me the file. We informed Datasat of this phantom HC requirement well over 2 months ago. But as you say, they listen well.

The official final release should be out very soon.
JapanDave's Avatar JapanDave
06:05 AM Liked: 104
post #1818 of 1997
09-02-2014 | Posts: 2,407
Joined: Jul 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
Is it available to download? Where??

Awesome!! I've owned many SSPs but the fast turn around on requests amazes me. I complained about this 3 weeks ago when I first installed - an now a fix! Perhaps this was in the works prior, but who knew this was an issue before the Auro release!

I've yet to update my piece... is there an FAQ?
I hate to be the one who said "I told you so!"

I had a problem that was limited to me only and they did a firmware upgrade. How is that for listening to their customers?!!!
RUR's Avatar RUR
09:59 AM Liked: 77
post #1819 of 1997
09-02-2014 | Posts: 2,387
Joined: Feb 2007
OK, Datasat folks, here's a link to a description of the forthcoming Auro Mensa processor: http://www.virtualmarket.ifa-berlin....54#description

Which says, in part

"The Auro-3D® Mensa™
Integrated 3D Sound Processor - Full 3D Audio + 3D Video AV Processor

The Auro-3D® Mensa® AV Processor is one of the most versatile, customizable and feature-rich audio processors available today in the high end consumer space. Exclusively designed for Auro Technologies by Datasat Digital Entertainment, leaders in the world of digital cinema audio processors, the Auro-3D® Mensa™ will be an attractive component of any luxury home entertainment system.

With 16 output channels, the Auro-3D® Mensa™ allows to accommodate not only all Surround sound formats but also the most immersive experience available in the home market today. Your movie experience will be like nothing you have heard before with crystal-clear dialog and immersive sound tracks like originally intended by their creators.
The Auro-3D® Mensa™ includes features such as Dirac Live® room optimization, memory profile settings, stackable multiple EQ’s, room optimisation/correction and extensive automation controls ending up in one of the most professional sound solutions."

Emphases mine.

Presumably Storm product. Price unknown, but why the heck would Datasat design a product which would seem to be in direct competition with the RS20? I'm missing something, but what?
djnickuk's Avatar djnickuk
11:34 AM Liked: 39
post #1820 of 1997
09-02-2014 | Posts: 836
Joined: Feb 2011
And it looks like the crux is a rebadged LS10.
sdrucker's Avatar sdrucker
11:49 AM Liked: 162
post #1821 of 1997
09-02-2014 | Posts: 2,277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post
And it looks like the crux is a rebadged LS10.

What about the Mensa? A rebadged SSP-16 3D Reference?
RUR's Avatar RUR
12:10 PM Liked: 77
post #1822 of 1997
09-02-2014 | Posts: 2,387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
What about the Mensa? A rebadged SSP-16 3D Reference?
Stuart, the SSP-xx models don't show Dirac as a feature, which is contrary to Mensa/Crux details. Could be an omission, a new add since June, or they're different products, though similar products from both Auro and Storm would be yet another odd development.
djnickuk's Avatar djnickuk
02:38 PM Liked: 39
post #1823 of 1997
09-02-2014 | Posts: 836
Joined: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
What about the Mensa? A rebadged SSP-16 3D Reference?
No, the ssp16 is made my storm. The Auro article states the Mensa is made by Datasat and the specs are the exact same as the RS20i. As are the specs of the crux to the LS10.

It's strange that they are not sticking with Storm as it's storm who makes Auros Auriga.

I also noted that Auro are using a Trinnov Altitude to show off Auro at IFA Berlin. Not going with their own Auriga.

Reading between the lines I would say that Auro and Storm have had a falling out.
djnickuk's Avatar djnickuk
02:42 PM Liked: 39
post #1824 of 1997
09-02-2014 | Posts: 836
Joined: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by RUR View Post
Stuart, the SSP-xx models don't show Dirac as a feature, which is contrary to Mensa/Crux details. Could be an omission, a new add since June, or they're different products, though similar products from both Auro and Storm would be yet another odd development.
The SSP models and Auriga are made by Storm. One of their key people is Stephen Fields, who was pivotal to the design of the RS20i by Datasat, so it's no suprise there are some similarities between both manufacturers products.

It was also mentioned on AVforums by Neil of Genesis who has taken on Storm that it would be getting room correction added, and it was clear it would be Dirac.

So if storm actually get their products out, there will be the ssp range. Datasats range and Auros range ( rebadged Datasats ).
RUR's Avatar RUR
03:23 PM Liked: 77
post #1825 of 1997
09-02-2014 | Posts: 2,387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post
The Auro article states the Mensa is made by Datasat...
Not to be pedantic, Nick, but AFAICT the article says only that it's designed by Datasat. Are you sure it's manufactured by Datasat?
Quote:
....and the specs are the exact same as the RS20i. As are the specs of the crux to the LS10.
Which brings us back to my original query... Why is Datasat designing (and manufacturing?) products which are in direct competition with their own?

Quote:
It was also mentioned on AVforums by Neil of Genesis who has taken on Storm that it would be getting room correction added, and it was clear it would be Dirac.

So if storm actually get their products out, there will be the ssp range. Datasats range and Auros range ( rebadged Datasats ).
Which would make three sets of virtually identical pre/pro products - Datasat, Auro and Storm. I don't (yet) understand the galactic plan.
djnickuk's Avatar djnickuk
04:29 PM Liked: 39
post #1826 of 1997
09-02-2014 | Posts: 836
Joined: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by RUR View Post
Not to be pedantic, Nick, but AFAICT the article says only that it's designed by Datasat. Are you sure it's manufactured by Datasat?

Which brings us back to my original query... Why is Datasat designing (and manufacturing?) products which are in direct competition with their own?


Which would make three sets of virtually identical pre/pro products - Datasat, Auro and Storm. I don't (yet) understand the galactic plan.
No I'm not sure it's manufactured by Datasat, but I can only take inference using the same line of thought as you, why would they design something to be in direct competition with themselves. It makes much more sense for them to allow their units to be rebadged, like Bryston did with Lexicon.

And whilst it's confusing to look at these three companies turning out identical products it's no different further down the line to normal main stream pre pros. Onkyos, denons, marantz et al, all do essentially the same thing but with slight variations in features and of course components.
audioguy's Avatar audioguy
04:32 PM Liked: 331
post #1827 of 1997
09-02-2014 | Posts: 3,558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post
it's no different further down the line to normal main stream pre pros. Onkyos, denons, marantz et al, all do essentially the same thing but with slight variations in features and of course components.
One huge difference. The market opportunity for a $2000 SSP is gigantically larger than one for a $20,000 SSP.
sdrucker's Avatar sdrucker
04:38 PM Liked: 162
post #1828 of 1997
09-02-2014 | Posts: 2,277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
One huge difference. The market opportunity for a $2000 SSP is gigantically larger than one for a $20,000 SSP.
Denon and Marantz also have a few points of physical differentiation today: Marantz units are aimed a bit more at the mid-end audiophile market for pre/pros, with XLR outputs and HDAM modules replacing the Denon AVR amps and speaker posts. I could see Datasat being differentiated from the Auro-branded units with different EQ (Dirac Unison down the road?), more esoteric DB25 I/O, or better DACs. But otherwise it's simply branding and/or a different distribution network as a rationale IMO.

I'd beg to differ than Onkyo & D&M are almost identical: Onkyo has a bit more emphasis on video processing (QDEO chips a year ago vs. what D&M had), and their HDMI boards are far less reliable LOL if you believe AVS. Pioneer is historically different due to PQLS (if you care) on the video side and Class D amps (ditto) on their Elite AVRs. That's leaving aside REQ, of course, where only D&M have Audyssey and the others their own "unique" REQ (or lack of, in the case of Onkyo these days WRT mains and subs).
stephenbr's Avatar stephenbr
04:41 PM Liked: 22
post #1829 of 1997
09-02-2014 | Posts: 460
Joined: Jan 2004
RUR - just to clarify, the Storm Audio SSPs are quite different designs to the Datasat units.
RUR's Avatar RUR
04:44 PM Liked: 77
post #1830 of 1997
09-02-2014 | Posts: 2,387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
One huge difference. The market opportunity for a $2000 SSP is gigantically larger than one for a $20,000 SSP.
Yup. Hard to see how this wouldn't cannibalize profits.

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