Official DataSat RS20i thread. (Setup Tips, Questions,General Info, etc) - Page 62 - AVS Forum

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Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+)

sdrucker's Avatar sdrucker
04:52 PM Liked: 162
post #1831 of 1997
09-02-2014 | Posts: 2,277
Joined: Feb 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by RUR View Post
Yup. Hard to see how this wouldn't cannibalize profits.
Distribution differences, brand equity, personal relationships with the dealers might be a start. If you're buying less of a hunk of metal and more of a long-term relationship with the distributor/dealer/rep and you've the bucks, there's some reason to sell and support differently than in the mass market. Most of you here are more familiar with this than me, but that's at least what I'd see as a marketer professionally.

Reading the various threads, it struck me on that at least one firmware upgrade to the Datasat was done due to a single user's issue (maybe thebland's one with Auro center height extraction/downmix to L/R heights from reading the UK equivalent of AVS). That's a completely different ballgame than the model of the mainstream world. And more like what I'm used to seeing for software support for boutique products (not necessarily expensive ones, just ones with very dedicated audiences). In that context, maybe you can get away with near-identical products with different brand nameplates.
RUR's Avatar RUR
05:01 PM Liked: 77
post #1832 of 1997
09-02-2014 | Posts: 2,387
Joined: Feb 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenbr View Post
RUR - just to clarify, the Storm Audio SSPs are quite different designs to the Datasat units.
I believe you, but the fundamental performance specs - 12/16 channels, Dirac correction (Nick's post above), Auro decoding - appear to be the same, and the Storm pricing ain't much discount from Datasat, if any. What do you see as the big discriminators?
stephenbr's Avatar stephenbr
05:18 PM Liked: 22
post #1833 of 1997
09-02-2014 | Posts: 460
Joined: Jan 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by RUR View Post
I believe you, but the fundamental performance specs - 12/16 channels, Dirac correction (Nick's post above), Auro decoding - appear to be the same, and the Storm pricing ain't much discount from Datasat, if any. What do you see as the big discriminators?
I see Storm Audio and Datasat a bit like Onkyo/Integra and Marantz in their respective fields. The 5509 and 8801 have a very similar feature set and are competitors but are designed differently.

Some quick but significant differences I see between the Storm Audio SSP-16 and the Datasat RS20i include:
- DSP chips, DAC etc
- input/outputs
- upgrade path (eg Datasat has card 'slots' for ease of upgrade)
- operating interface
- how extra channels are added
CINERAMAX's Avatar CINERAMAX
05:51 PM Liked: 85
post #1834 of 1997
09-02-2014 | Posts: 12,827
Joined: Sep 2000
I made an exercise to reduce channel count to what I consider bare minimum for Aegir and lo and behold I need 32 channels.....

datasat can you please populate the empty slots?
djnickuk's Avatar djnickuk
07:52 PM Liked: 39
post #1835 of 1997
09-02-2014 | Posts: 836
Joined: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
Reading the various threads, it struck me on that at least one firmware upgrade to the Datasat was done due to a single user's issue (maybe thebland's one with Auro center height extraction/downmix to L/R heights from reading the UK equivalent of AVS). That's a completely different ballgame than the model of the mainstream world. And more like what I'm used to seeing for software support for boutique products (not necessarily expensive ones, just ones with very dedicated audiences). In that context, maybe you can get away with near-identical products with different brand nameplates.
The request for Phantom HC was put in some weeks before thebland took delivery of his unit. And do remember the codec was still in beta testing so the writing team were dedicated to this task. But that aside, Datasat do listen, investigate and take the required,action to fix any bug that may come up.
thebland's Avatar thebland
04:06 AM Liked: 172
post #1836 of 1997
09-03-2014 | Posts: 24,049
Joined: Jan 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post
The request for Phantom HC was put in some weeks before thebland took delivery of his unit. And do remember the codec was still in beta testing so the writing team were dedicated to this task. But that aside, Datasat do listen, investigate and take the required,action to fix any bug that may come up.
Nick,

Speaking of that beta software, I tried updating to this release via USB drive but get error' "this software not supported by this hardware". Any suggestions?
djnickuk's Avatar djnickuk
04:58 AM Liked: 39
post #1837 of 1997
09-03-2014 | Posts: 836
Joined: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
Nick,

Speaking of that beta software, I tried updating to this release via USB drive but get error' "this software not supported by this hardware". Any suggestions?
Hmmm, make sure the file ends in .upd also ensure the drive has nothing else on it. Failing that, shoot Datasat an email. Perhaps the file is corrupted. That is not an issue I've come across I'm afraid.
JapanDave's Avatar JapanDave
04:22 PM Liked: 104
post #1838 of 1997
09-03-2014 | Posts: 2,407
Joined: Jul 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
Nick,

Speaking of that beta software, I tried updating to this release via USB drive but get error' "this software not supported by this hardware". Any suggestions?
Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post
Hmmm, make sure the file ends in .upd also ensure the drive has nothing else on it. Failing that, shoot Datasat an email. Perhaps the file is corrupted. That is not an issue I've come across I'm afraid.
I have had the same issue before. If it is the correct file, I found a complete reboot helped in some cases. Otherwise you may be correct and the file is corrupt.
thebland's Avatar thebland
06:15 PM Liked: 172
post #1839 of 1997
09-03-2014 | Posts: 24,049
Joined: Jan 2001
I got it! Carl gave me a bit of advice.

Thanks!
CINERAMAX's Avatar CINERAMAX
06:37 PM Liked: 85
post #1840 of 1997
09-03-2014 | Posts: 12,827
Joined: Sep 2000
I just started the official Tandem Rs-20i Thread. For those wanting 32 channels of dirac 2 corrected auro and atmos off the bat, this is a very attractive proposition at BOGOHP.

Done frequently in large format auditoriums with the ap-24, now coming to HT for atmos auro 32 channel dirac.





Attached: tandem-rs-20i.jpg (182.7 KB)  dopple-rs201.jpg (225.4 KB) 
JapanDave's Avatar JapanDave
06:10 AM Liked: 104
post #1841 of 1997
09-07-2014 | Posts: 2,407
Joined: Jul 2009
Love the dual RS20i's Peter. How do you incorporate the Dirac live for the extra channels?

Dave
CINERAMAX's Avatar CINERAMAX
07:38 AM Liked: 85
post #1842 of 1997
09-07-2014 | Posts: 12,827
Joined: Sep 2000
You don't 16 plus 16 =32.

BUT YOU CAN SOMEHOW BECAUSE BARCOS VERSION IS 24
stephenbr's Avatar stephenbr
06:33 AM Liked: 22
post #1843 of 1997
09-09-2014 | Posts: 460
Joined: Jan 2004
Datasat have released their technical notes for the Auro 3D upgrade:

http://datasatdigital.com/docs/archi...ro_8_RS20i.pdf
stephenbr's Avatar stephenbr
06:42 AM Liked: 22
post #1844 of 1997
09-09-2014 | Posts: 460
Joined: Jan 2004
And following confirmation that Atmos is coming:

http://datasatdigital.com/consumer/i...dolby-news.php
CINERAMAX's Avatar CINERAMAX
04:52 PM Liked: 85
post #1845 of 1997
09-09-2014 | Posts: 12,827
Joined: Sep 2000
I told ya'll.
stephenbr's Avatar stephenbr
05:59 PM Liked: 22
post #1846 of 1997
09-09-2014 | Posts: 460
Joined: Jan 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
I told ya'll.
Never doubted you!
JapanDave's Avatar JapanDave
03:38 AM Liked: 104
post #1847 of 1997
09-11-2014 | Posts: 2,407
Joined: Jul 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
Reading the various threads, it struck me on that at least one firmware upgrade to the Datasat was done due to a single user's issue (maybe thebland's one with Auro center height extraction/downmix to L/R heights from reading the UK equivalent of AVS). That's a completely different ballgame than the model of the mainstream world. And more like what I'm used to seeing for software support for boutique products (not necessarily expensive ones, just ones with very dedicated audiences). In that context, maybe you can get away with near-identical products with different brand nameplates.
I think you will find that one issue I brought up with DataSat regarding WASAPI and communication with a windows PC was fixed and I was the only one who had the issue at the time. They sent me instructions on how to debug the problem and I sent the logs back to them and they had the fix and a new update within a couple of weeks.
westmd's Avatar westmd
07:58 AM Liked: 68
post #1848 of 1997
09-11-2014 | Posts: 457
Joined: Jan 2010
I read in a Datasat speaker setup guide that the Auro height center channel is only necessary in very large rooms. Now my room is 5.70m x 4.30m and 2.20m high. Now I have got the problem that amp wise I can only use either the center height or the VOG and I was wondering if in my environment the centre height even makes sense!
Wookii's Avatar Wookii
08:26 AM Liked: 43
post #1849 of 1997
09-11-2014 | Posts: 414
Joined: Aug 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by westmd View Post
I read in a Datasat speaker setup guide that the Auro height center channel is only necessary in very large rooms. Now my room is 5.70m x 4.30m and 2.20m high. Now I have got the problem that amp wise I can only use either the center height or the VOG and I was wondering if in my environment the centre height even makes sense!
There is now, I believe, an option within the RS20i (and I assume LS10) set-up menus to opt for the centre height channel to be down mixed into the L/R front height channels.

If you have to choose, personally I would go for the VOG. Alternatively pick up a cheap second hand stereo or mono amp to add to your existing, and have both channels. That is what I have done - I have two seven channel amps covering 14 speakers, so I got a Primare stereo amp (which handily has a bridged mode) for running the VOG.

My room is a similar size to yours
westmd's Avatar westmd
05:02 AM Liked: 68
post #1850 of 1997
09-12-2014 | Posts: 457
Joined: Jan 2010
May I invite you to the newly opened The official Auro 3D thread (home theater version)
yapota's Avatar yapota
04:51 AM Liked: 10
post #1851 of 1997
09-15-2014 | Posts: 40
Joined: Oct 2002
Hi All

Bit of a newbie question but I just want to make sure I am getting the most out of my system. I have an Oppo 103D connected to the Datasat via HDMI. Is it better to have the Oppo send uncompressed LPCM to the Datasat or Bitstream to the Datasat.

Also if I am using LPCM is it better to do it using Co-Axial as it can then do 192khz?

Thanks for you help in advance.
Wookii's Avatar Wookii
05:11 AM Liked: 43
post #1852 of 1997
09-15-2014 | Posts: 414
Joined: Aug 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by yapota View Post
Hi All

Bit of a newbie question but I just want to make sure I am getting the most out of my system. I have an Oppo 103D connected to the Datasat via HDMI. Is it better to have the Oppo send uncompressed LPCM to the Datasat or Bitstream to the Datasat.

Also if I am using LPCM is it better to do it using Co-Axial as it can then do 192khz?

Thanks for you help in advance.
Blu-ray audio sent over coax will be down sampled, so send it all via HDMI.

EDIT: Down sampled might not be theright description - you will essentially only get the basic SD core of the soundtrack, not the HD sound track.

Whether you send it via bitstream or LPCM should make no difference sound quality wise but your RS20i won't show the source file type (DTS-MA etc) if sent via LPCM, personally I use bitstream.
CINERAMAX's Avatar CINERAMAX
04:51 AM Liked: 85
post #1853 of 1997
09-16-2014 | Posts: 12,827
Joined: Sep 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by westmd View Post
May I invite you to the newly opened The official Auro 3D thread (home theater version)

Some guy in Local Denver TV claimed to improve on Wilfred's invention.
thebland's Avatar thebland
05:06 AM Liked: 172
post #1854 of 1997
09-16-2014 | Posts: 24,049
Joined: Jan 2001
Peter... That is the funniest damn thing! You are the best and besides my own helpful advice here, I can't imagine this forum wihout you and your cutting edge experiments!!!
thebland's Avatar thebland
06:30 AM Liked: 172
post #1855 of 1997
09-16-2014 | Posts: 24,049
Joined: Jan 2001
AUDIOLICS REVIEW OF DATASAT and AURO 3D!

Auro-3D
After visiting with Pioneer, Cliff and I made the long walk to Auro’s demo room which was situated across the hall. Suffice it to say, few systems present at CEDIA could compete with what Auro brought to the party. In addition to a Datasat RS20i processor boasting Dirac Live room correction, the Auro room featured a 20.1 setup consisting of James loudspeakers and no less than six subwoofers. The speakers were arrayed in nine channel arrays; the first array was oriented at ear level, with the second height layer being placed roughly five to six feet above ear level. Two “voice of God” speakers were utilized for overhead effects.

To call Auro’s demo impressive would be the understatement of the year. In fact, it was by far our favorite demo experience of the show though we didn't get the chance to hear the highly regarded JBL Atmos demo. Part of this was undoubtedly due to the caliber of the system present, but the added ambient information provided by the height layer added a sense of scale that simply wowed both of us. A wide selection of material was played back including an organ piece recorded in a church, as well as an orchestral piece. However, the star of the show was a jet flyover. As someone that occasionally parks near an airport to watch (as well as listen) to planes taking off, I can say that this demo was extraordinary in its realism, which certainly wasn’t hurt by the dynamic capability of the system.


http://www.audioholics.com/editorial...14-show-report

Can't wait to get my hands on that demo disc!
Wookii's Avatar Wookii
06:38 AM Liked: 43
post #1856 of 1997
09-16-2014 | Posts: 414
Joined: Aug 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
AUDIOLICS REVIEW OF DATASAT and AURO 3D!

Auro-3D
In addition to a Datasat RS20i processor boasting Dirac Live room correction, the Auro room featured a 20.1 setup consisting of James loudspeakers and no less than six subwoofers. The speakers were arrayed in nine channel arrays; the first array was oriented at ear level, with the second height layer being placed roughly five to six feet above ear level. Two “voice of God” speakers were utilized for overhead effects.


Can't wait to get my hands on that demo disc!
Interesting Jeff - so I wonder how they were mapping the 20 channels out of the RS20i, and where were the additional two channels in the nine channel array - were these additional side surrounds perhaps to cover multiple rows of seats? Did anyone here attend the demo it at CEDIA?
CINERAMAX's Avatar CINERAMAX
06:49 AM Liked: 85
post #1857 of 1997
09-16-2014 | Posts: 12,827
Joined: Sep 2000
PD on the health of the James Speakers over the course of 3 days.

Day one great sounding best sound at cedia except had not heard JBL (which takes the atmos cake).
Day two speakers behind screen appear to be losing efficiency surrounds sound louder in comparison.
Day three every ambient channel where a vehicle or aircraft was prominently panned thru is blown, the left wall surround (where the truck goes by, the lower left screen channel also truck related and the upper right behind the screen high where the jet and choppers hover, all them fancy four leaf clover tweeters gone.

Im not tooting Jeff's horn but being the one that has heard all systems, Jeff's Room (Miss HT of September) is where the next round of cedia comparisons come to a crux. The Questeds kill the JBL's M2's, and as wonderful the James speakers trumped wisdom and Procella(Can we hear class action suits there- who is the genious that invited these speakers to cedia?) ;-)

The ADA suite had the best ricochet speaker demo, Richard tweaked the presentation and gave an inciteful and wonderfully educational lecture on how to do richochet atmos right. He got third best sound despite there were no ada processors on display just empty chassis, I think Marantz was tweaked by Richard to great effect.
stephenbr's Avatar stephenbr
07:23 AM Liked: 22
post #1858 of 1997
09-16-2014 | Posts: 460
Joined: Jan 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Interesting Jeff - so I wonder how they were mapping the 20 channels out of the RS20i, and where were the additional two channels in the nine channel array - were these additional side surrounds perhaps to cover multiple rows of seats? Did anyone here attend the demo it at CEDIA?
I'd like to know how they did all these channels too.
thebland's Avatar thebland
07:55 AM Liked: 172
post #1859 of 1997
09-16-2014 | Posts: 24,049
Joined: Jan 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
PD on the health of the James Speakers over the course of 3 days.

Day one great sounding best sound at cedia except had not heard JBL (which takes the atmos cake).
Day two speakers behind screen appear to be losing efficiency surrounds sound louder in comparison.
Day three every ambient channel where a vehicle or aircraft was prominently panned thru is blown, the left wall surround (where the truck goes by, the lower left screen channel also truck related and the upper right behind the screen high where the jet and choppers hover, all them fancy four leaf clover tweeters gone.

Im not tooting Jeff's horn but being the one that has heard all systems, Jeff's Room (Miss HT of September) is where the next round of cedia comparisons come to a crux. The Questeds kill the JBL's M2's, and as wonderful the James speakers trumped wisdom and Procella(Can we hear class action suits there- who is the genious that invited these speakers to cedia?) ;-)

The ADA suite had the best ricochet speaker demo, Richard tweaked the presentation and gave an inciteful and wonderfully educational lecture on how to do richochet atmos right. He got third best sound despite there were no ada processors on display just empty chassis, I think Marantz was tweaked by Richard to great effect.
Peter,

Love your reviews!

I am on my 30th-40th hours today breaking in with Pink noise. Coming along.

Those James speakers look sweet but dome tweeters have an Achilles Heal... They generally can't play to cinema levels.

Great reviews!!
djnickuk's Avatar djnickuk
09:28 AM Liked: 39
post #1860 of 1997
09-16-2014 | Posts: 836
Joined: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenbr View Post
I'd like to know how they did all these channels too.
I'm guessing either they had an 8 channel expansion or daisy chained 2 RS20i together.

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