Official DataSat RS20i thread. (Setup Tips, Questions,General Info, etc) - Page 63 - AVS Forum
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post #1861 of 1883 Old 09-16-2014, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Interesting Jeff - so I wonder how they were mapping the 20 channels out of the RS20i, and where were the additional two channels in the nine channel array - were these additional side surrounds perhaps to cover multiple rows of seats? Did anyone here attend the demo it at CEDIA?
Copying from my post over on the Auro-3D Demo thread:

We used a single RS20i with the 8-channel card, for a total of 24 channels out of the RS20i.

The content was native 11.1.

The Left, Center, Right mains were 2-ways, with the crossovers being handled by the RS20i.

We used arrays of 3 speakers each for the Left Surround, Right Surround, LS Height and RS Height channels.

We used a 2 speaker array for the VOG. The original plan for the room was to use 4 overhead for the VOG channel, but we used up all the available speakers in the James warehouse and had to make do with 2!

6 subs.

So total count was 20 + 6 subs.
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post #1862 of 1883 Old 09-16-2014, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by dschulz View Post
Copying from my post over on the Auro-3D Demo thread:

We used a single RS20i with the 8-channel card, for a total of 24 channels out of the RS20i.

The content was native 11.1.

The Left, Center, Right mains were 2-ways, with the crossovers being handled by the RS20i.

We used arrays of 3 speakers each for the Left Surround, Right Surround, LS Height and RS Height channels.

We used a 2 speaker array for the VOG. The original plan for the room was to use 4 overhead for the VOG channel, but we used up all the available speakers in the James warehouse and had to make do with 2!

6 subs.

So total count was 20 + 6 subs.
Thanks For the info Dan, wish I could have heard it in action.

I have to ask though: "We used a single RS20i with the 8-channel card" . . . What 8 channel card? Is this something that is going to be available to existing customers at some point?
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post #1863 of 1883 Old 09-16-2014, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post
AUDIOLICS REVIEW OF DATASAT and AURO 3D!

Auro-3D
After visiting with Pioneer, Cliff and I made the long walk to Auro’s demo room which was situated across the hall. Suffice it to say, few systems present at CEDIA could compete with what Auro brought to the party. In addition to a Datasat RS20i processor boasting Dirac Live room correction, the Auro room featured a 20.1 setup consisting of James loudspeakers and no less than six subwoofers. The speakers were arrayed in nine channel arrays; the first array was oriented at ear level, with the second height layer being placed roughly five to six feet above ear level. Two “voice of God” speakers were utilized for overhead effects.

To call Auro’s demo impressive would be the understatement of the year. In fact, it was by far our favorite demo experience of the show though we didn't get the chance to hear the highly regarded JBL Atmos demo. Part of this was undoubtedly due to the caliber of the system present, but the added ambient information provided by the height layer added a sense of scale that simply wowed both of us. A wide selection of material was played back including an organ piece recorded in a church, as well as an orchestral piece. However, the star of the show was a jet flyover. As someone that occasionally parks near an airport to watch (as well as listen) to planes taking off, I can say that this demo was extraordinary in its realism, which certainly wasn’t hurt by the dynamic capability of the system.


http://www.audioholics.com/editorial...14-show-report

Can't wait to get my hands on that demo disc!
Wookii,
I was there and I can verify the 20.1 setup with two VOG overhead. I'm a Trinnov guy but the Auro demo, with the better material, was almost as impressive as Atmos in the Procella room (which was my favorite among five Atmos demos due to the realism of object movement/panning and a sense of "depth" to certain dialogue and effects). As to music, the pipe organ rising up and surrounding the listener (me, center of the second row from the front) puts you into the room with the instrument, but I agree with others that the symphony orchestra clip felt "flat" by comparison, more like IMO multichannel stereo than the distinct surround impression of the other cuts. Even more noticeable were the environmental clips for Amsterdam city center and the "tractor pass" in a forest, with the middle layer shining to bring ambient sound from the pedestrians passing by, and the tractor moving past the forest, respectively. And the jet overhead was head-turning, literally.

My only question would be how much of the overall effect was Auro, and how much was due to the sheer number of speakers. IIRC there were five LCR and L/R back surround lower, five parallel to the above as a middle layer, two sets - two pairs of lower and middle - of side surrounds on each side wall, and the two VOG on the ceilling.
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post #1864 of 1883 Old 09-16-2014, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Thanks For the info Dan, wish I could have heard it in action.

I have to ask though: "We used a single RS20i with the 8-channel card" . . . What 8 channel card? Is this something that is going to be available to existing customers at some point?
Pretty sure that card is publically available now. At least it is on my Datasat price sheet.


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post #1865 of 1883 Old 09-16-2014, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post
Pretty sure that card is publically available now. At least it is on my Datasat price sheet.
Really? At what price?

Edit: Also, is Dirac available on all 8 additional channels?

Last edited by Wookii; 09-16-2014 at 02:17 PM.
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post #1866 of 1883 Old 09-16-2014, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Really? At what price?

Edit: Also, is Dirac available on all 8 additional channels?
The RS20i 8 Channel Expansion Card is $4K retail.




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post #1867 of 1883 Old 09-16-2014, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
The ADA suite had the best ricochet speaker demo, Richard tweaked the presentation and gave an inciteful and wonderfully educational lecture on how to do richochet atmos right.
Peter, what is richochet Atmos? I've never heard the term.

Roger

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post #1868 of 1883 Old Yesterday, 12:52 AM
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The RS20i 8 Channel Expansion Card is $4K retail.


Jim
Thanks Jim.

Can anybody confirm if Dirac is available on the additional 8 channels added by the expansion card?
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post #1869 of 1883 Old Yesterday, 04:33 AM
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Only the Barco 24 has it.


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post #1870 of 1883 Old Yesterday, 04:51 AM
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Only the Barco 24 has it.
Are you replying to Roger, or me there Peter?
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post #1871 of 1883 Old Yesterday, 05:04 AM
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Are you replying to Roger, or me there Peter?
To you.

Roger , that is how I describe the ceiling bounce method because I confuse enabled speakers versus modules etc...


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post #1872 of 1883 Old Yesterday, 05:14 AM
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To you.
Ah right, thank you Peter, so no Dirac on the 8 channels if you add it to the RS20i . . .
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post #1873 of 1883 Old Yesterday, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
The ADA suite had the best ricochet speaker demo, Richard tweaked the presentation and gave an inciteful and wonderfully educational lecture on how to do richochet atmos right. He got third best sound despite there were no ada processors on display just empty chassis, I think Marantz was tweaked by Richard to great effect.
Peter, thank you for coming by the Suite and taking so much time to sit through even the Yani demo (sorry about that ;-)

I will take third place in a heart beat considering the MSRP of our room was under $15K and that even includes the hotel's flat-panel TV ;-) We are at the dawn of a new surround sound era and the most important thing all of us can do is to educate ourselves on how to make this marvelous new audio technology rock. There is so much yet to learn.

I hope everyone had an amazing CEDIA. We most certainly did. Thanks to all who dared to step into our lair
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post #1874 of 1883 Old Yesterday, 11:27 AM
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Peter, thank you for coming by the Suite and taking so much time to sit through even the Yani demo (sorry about that ;-)

I will take third place in a heart beat considering the MSRP of our room was under $15K and that even includes the hotel's flat-panel TV ;-) We are at the dawn of a new surround sound era and the most important thing all of us can do is to educate ourselves on how to make this marvelous new audio technology rock. There is so much yet to learn.

I hope everyone had an amazing CEDIA. We most certainly did. Thanks to all who dared to step into our lair
My 3D sound goal at CEDIA was to find systems where the sound objects invaded my personal space while sounding musical, natural and above all un-fatiguing. The Datasat /James (accelerated-decrepitude-Tweeter super speakers) Auro 3D with 20 channels came in number one, the jbl with the all digital Cat 6 chain atmos, second, and yours definitely third best over the below list:

The Dolby Atmos Demo using the same speakers sounded boxy and unresolute (maybe they should have used ADA amps like yours), the Datasat with wisdom audio had so many ribbons the dirac could not tame it's zippiness, the trinnov procella where the front sofa had excellent 3d layering but the seat behind the sofa did not, and the obvious insult to injury is these cretinous sounding poor excuse for a loudspeaker per se - again who was the highly respected acoustic guru that designs everyones room but brought these speakers to cedia 2010?
[Malpractice or Giant brain fart !!!], then as I approach the bottom of the list is Steinway Lyngdorf and it's low resolution proprietary crap, muffled sounds due to the way it digital controls volume below 0 db not allowing clipping and the rolled off high frequencies of their amplifier, and the insistence on stacking subs on front and delay manage for rear surround bass info, This "highly respected" demagogue has a mantra " I envision in my head-therefore it must exist", well it does not and his large room delivered the antithesis of Atmos personal space invasion. If I was considering giving this company any business I would cancel the order again on the spot for the second time.

Fact is Richard schooled everyone on how object panning personal space invasion is done in a small room, kudos.


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post #1875 of 1883 Old Yesterday, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Thanks Jim.

Can anybody confirm if Dirac is available on the additional 8 channels added by the expansion card?
There are 16 Dirac, or processing channels, and either 16 or 24 output channels.

The Dirac processing channels are basically the content channels: L,R,C,LFE,Ls,Rs,HL,HR,HC,HLs,HRs,T (and Lw,Rw for Neo:X).
You can connect one or more output channels to any of the Dirac processing channels.

A typical use for multiple outputs is for crossovers where a high and low output are from the same Dirac channel. In that case Dirac treats it the same as it does an individual speaker (for the Dirac setup there is no difference if one output was used and the crossovers were at the speaker).

A second use is to have an speaker array. In that case Dirac cannot do the time alignment impulse response correction.

16 channel processing happens before routing.
- Dirac
- 1/3 octave EQ
- Parametric EQ
- Bass
- Treble
- Trim
- Channel Delay

Output channel processing happens after routing.
This can be 16 or 24 channels.
- High Pass Filter
- Low Pass Filter
- Output Channel Delay
- Output Channel Trim
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post #1876 of 1883 Old Yesterday, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by dschulz View Post
There are 16 Dirac, or processing channels, and either 16 or 24 output channels.

The Dirac processing channels are basically the content channels: L,R,C,LFE,Ls,Rs,HL,HR,HC,HLs,HRs,T (and Lw,Rw for Neo:X).
You can connect one or more output channels to any of the Dirac processing channels.

A typical use for multiple outputs is for crossovers where a high and low output are from the same Dirac channel. In that case Dirac treats it the same as it does an individual speaker (for the Dirac setup there is no difference if one output was used and the crossovers were at the speaker).

A second use is to have an speaker array. In that case Dirac cannot do the time alignment impulse response correction.

16 channel processing happens before routing.
- Dirac
- 1/3 octave EQ
- Parametric EQ
- Bass
- Treble
- Trim
- Channel Delay

Output channel processing happens after routing.
This can be 16 or 24 channels.
- High Pass Filter
- Low Pass Filter
- Output Channel Delay
- Output Channel Trim
will the rs20i ever have true discrete 24 (or more) channel processing with dirac? it is kind of needed for high end atmos setups, especially if someone want to have a height layer for auro too..
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post #1877 of 1883 Old Yesterday, 12:00 PM
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will the rs20i ever have true discrete 24 (or more) channel processing with dirac? it is kind of needed for high end atmos setups, especially if someone want to have a height layer for auro too..
They have the 32 channel equivalent of that on a 2 chassis stack, where the price is BOGOHP, so practically yes as if you attached the extra dirac licensing fee to the 8 output card.



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post #1878 of 1883 Old Yesterday, 01:14 PM
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They have the 32 channel equivalent of that on a 2 chassis stack, where the price is BOGOHP, so practically yes as if you attached the extra dirac licensing fee to the 8 output card.
Nice!
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post #1879 of 1883 Old Yesterday, 03:34 PM
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To you.

Roger , that is how I describe the ceiling bounce method because I confuse enabled speakers versus modules etc...
Ahh, ok! Can you summarize the most salient points of ADA Richard's advice for getting the most effective ricochet effect?

Roger

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Ahh, ok! Can you summarize the most salient points of ADA Richard's advice for getting the most effective ricochet effect?
Sure!

a-Bring fronts lr closer together, maybe 7 feet apart. I will show picture.

b-Run height channels hotter than reference level.

Im not sure what he did on the marantz.

Their amps may have contributed.


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post #1881 of 1883 Old Yesterday, 03:57 PM
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Sure!

a-Bring fronts lr closer together, maybe 7 feet apart. I will show picture.

b-Run height channels hotter than reference level.
Goose the heights...

Anything about toe-in?

Roger

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post #1882 of 1883 Old Yesterday, 04:00 PM
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Goose the heights...

Anything about toe-in?

He He, let's wait for my pictures.

Best,


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post #1883 of 1883 Old Today, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by dschulz View Post
There are 16 Dirac, or processing channels, and either 16 or 24 output channels.

The Dirac processing channels are basically the content channels: L,R,C,LFE,Ls,Rs,HL,HR,HC,HLs,HRs,T (and Lw,Rw for Neo:X).
You can connect one or more output channels to any of the Dirac processing channels.

A typical use for multiple outputs is for crossovers where a high and low output are from the same Dirac channel. In that case Dirac treats it the same as it does an individual speaker (for the Dirac setup there is no difference if one output was used and the crossovers were at the speaker).

A second use is to have an speaker array. In that case Dirac cannot do the time alignment impulse response correction.

16 channel processing happens before routing.
- Dirac
- 1/3 octave EQ
- Parametric EQ
- Bass
- Treble
- Trim
- Channel Delay

Output channel processing happens after routing.
This can be 16 or 24 channels.
- High Pass Filter
- Low Pass Filter
- Output Channel Delay
- Output Channel Trim
Thanks Dan. I understand. As pointed out by Raczkri above though, more channels will most certainly be required for Atmos and DTS-UHD implementations on the RS20i, and those channels will need to be independently configurable with Dirac applied.

I know you probably won't be able to say Dan, but I'll ask anyway - does Datasat have any plans to implement this going forward in time for its announced Atmos release?

I appreciate the daisy chaining method as Peter shows above is a possibility, but (and no disrespect to you Peter on this) but it is a little daft to require a second unit to be purchased to add more channels, when presumably the additional channels (8 at least,possibly 16?) could be added via an expansion card.

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