Official DataSat RS20i thread. (Setup Tips, Questions,General Info, etc) - Page 64 - AVS Forum
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post #1891 of 1898 Old 09-28-2014, 05:40 AM
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Sorry if this is the wrong forum.....


Went to demo some speakers yesterday.... B&W 802 Diamond, and the Rockport Atria.....


In the end, my dealer was trying to sell me the RS20i, and use it with my current speakers, the Monitor Audio PL100 standmounts....
Said the RS20i would give better sound with my current speakers, than new speakers on their own.....
Knowing how important the room is....I might be able to agree with that...


I do have to say, the RS20i is very impressive..... no doubt that it gave terrific sound....very advanced piece of equipment.....


Couple of things.... RS20i would replace my Denon 5308


RS20i does not seem to have enough inputs for my system as configured now....
I need the component inputs of the Denon and conversion to HDMI, for my projector system.....
No zone 2...or 3
Only 4 HDMI in, and only 1 HDMI out.....could use about 6 in, and 2 out.......
Only 2 audio inputs via RCA
and a few other shortcomings.....
I don't want to have to call the dealer to make any major changes in the system..... I like to tinker with things....


But soundwise, I was very impressed....


So what to do ?


How is everyone dealing with limited inputs ?
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post #1892 of 1898 Old 09-28-2014, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelly40 View Post
Sorry if this is the wrong forum.....


Went to demo some speakers yesterday.... B&W 802 Diamond, and the Rockport Atria.....


In the end, my dealer was trying to sell me the RS20i, and use it with my current speakers, the Monitor Audio PL100 standmounts....
Said the RS20i would give better sound with my current speakers, than new speakers on their own.....
Knowing how important the room is....I might be able to agree with that...


I do have to say, the RS20i is very impressive..... no doubt that it gave terrific sound....very advanced piece of equipment.....


Couple of things.... RS20i would replace my Denon 5308


RS20i does not seem to have enough inputs for my system as configured now....
I need the component inputs of the Denon and conversion to HDMI, for my projector system.....
No zone 2...or 3
Only 4 HDMI in, and only 1 HDMI out.....could use about 6 in, and 2 out.......
Only 2 audio inputs via RCA
and a few other shortcomings.....
I don't want to have to call the dealer to make any major changes in the system..... I like to tinker with things....


But soundwise, I was very impressed....


So what to do ?


How is everyone dealing with limited inputs ?
I have 2 Blu Ray players, Cable box and Apple TV in my 4 inputs. I run the extra outputs of the Blu Ray players to various inputs on my display monitor in my equipment room (HDMI2 on my Oppo and composite on my Denon BD - used to cue up movies, demos,etc).

There are goos serial controlled switchers you can use to make more virtual inputs but as my room is 100% Blu Ray 4 inputs is plenty (I would've liked a second HDMI output, however).


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post #1893 of 1898 Old 09-28-2014, 10:02 AM
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Copied from the Official Theta thread (post 73089) as more appropriate here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGA
I think you also have to take the level/trim control into account since, I assume, Datasat does it the digital domain. Meridian has an exotic analog/digital hybrid trim control to help minimize bit loss, the only company I know that does this.

My assumption is that for the analog output path the Datasat operates like all other AV processors, where the trims and volume are all handled in the same analog volume control.

Also doesn't the Theta DAC have a volume control in the analog domain? If so you could use this to possibly minimize use of the Datasat trim control.

Yes, it has an analog volume control. I was just addressing the question of the Datasat's digital volume control in the event it is not easy to coordinate control of the external Theta control with the rest of the RS20i's internal analog channels.
The Datasat has the ability to be a 100% digital processor, digital in, digital out, so I assumed Levels would be done in the digital domain. If you want to use the digital volume control you have to select it in the Menu. Perhaps Datasat can do Levels both ways, depending on whether the digital or analog VC is being used.

When settings Levels using Digital outputs, the Levels can only be decreased. With the analog VC they can be increased up to 10dB. This is why I mentioned possibly using the Theta DACs VC as a Level control, although it may only be an attenuator???

I brought up the Meridian as it also has digital and analog outputs but its VC can control both simultaneously, so its hybrid Level control (which can be set for increases) is very clever. This was some 5 years ago, so I don't know if there have been changes.

Last edited by GGA; 09-28-2014 at 10:07 AM.
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post #1894 of 1898 Old 09-28-2014, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGA View Post
Copied from the Official Theta thread (post 73089) as more appropriate here:



The Datasat has the ability to be a 100% digital processor, digital in, digital out, so I assumed Levels would be done in the digital domain. If you want to use the digital volume control you have to select it in the Menu. Perhaps Datasat can do Levels both ways, depending on whether the digital or analog VC is being used.

When settings Levels using Digital outputs, the Levels can only be decreased. With the analog VC they can be increased up to 10dB. This is why I mentioned possibly using the Theta DACs VC as a Level control, although it may only be an attenuator???

I brought up the Meridian as it also has digital and analog outputs but its VC can control both simultaneously, so its hybrid Level control (which can be set for increases) is very clever. This was some 5 years ago, so I don't know if there have been changes.
Ok, I think I'm starting to understand this.

I have just checked and with digital volume enabled I can still control my analog volumes. So if all my trims are below 0, which they are, then with digi volume enabled I should be able to operate the RS20i main fader and control the volume going out of the onboard dacs and the theta dac simultaneously doing away with the need for some macro on my controlling devices.
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post #1895 of 1898 Old 09-28-2014, 10:20 AM
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From the same thread:

Quote:
Thanks Roger. But I'm still not sure if this will allow me to use the Datasat to control the volume of the external dac or if I'll have to run a macro to adjust both the volume on the dac and the rs20i.
If you select the digital VC mode I don't think you would have any trouble controlling both the digital and analog outputs simultaneously from the Datasat. I would be more concerned about sufficient maximum loudness since you are limited by the gain the Theta provides. In the Datasat the DACs are all matched. If the Theta, for some reason, has a lower gain you will be limited by this gain, since there is no easy way to make it louder. It should not be problem, but you should test it before committing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGA

One thing I have always wondered about in using a external DAC only for only the L/R is how it would blend with the Center channel. Assuming the DAC makes an appreciable difference it might not be ideal when you using all three front channels??



This concerns me also. I also wonder if it's a worthy upgrade if 90 % of my listening is movies and tv. I virtually never listen to stereo music. I'm thinking perhaps the money is better spent elsewhere....
The easy solution is buy two Thetas!
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post #1896 of 1898 Old 09-28-2014, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post
Ok, I think I'm starting to understand this.

I have just checked and with digital volume enabled I can still control my analog volumes. So if all my trims are below 0, which they are, then with digi volume enabled I should be able to operate the RS20i main fader and control the volume going out of the onboard dacs and the theta dac simultaneously doing away with the need for some macro on my controlling devices.
That is correct.

See my other post, which as made at the same time as yours.

It will be important to see if the gain of the Theta DAC is in ballpark, but with your Level settings it seems like you should be ok.
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post #1897 of 1898 Old 09-28-2014, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGA View Post
That is correct.

See my other post, which as made at the same time as yours.

It will be important to see if the gain of the Theta DAC is in ballpark, but with your Level settings it seems like you should be ok.
Thanks for all your help. But it looks like the money would def be better spent else where with my listening habits. As said in the other thread, I'm thinking of getting an MSB UMT+ and I could spend that money that was ear marked for a dac on a clock upgrade.
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post #1898 of 1898 Old 09-28-2014, 09:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelly40 View Post
Sorry if this is the wrong forum.....


Went to demo some speakers yesterday.... B&W 802 Diamond, and the Rockport Atria.....


In the end, my dealer was trying to sell me the RS20i, and use it with my current speakers, the Monitor Audio PL100 standmounts....
Said the RS20i would give better sound with my current speakers, than new speakers on their own.....
Knowing how important the room is....I might be able to agree with that...


I do have to say, the RS20i is very impressive..... no doubt that it gave terrific sound....very advanced piece of equipment.....


Couple of things.... RS20i would replace my Denon 5308


RS20i does not seem to have enough inputs for my system as configured now....
I need the component inputs of the Denon and conversion to HDMI, for my projector system.....
No zone 2...or 3
Only 4 HDMI in, and only 1 HDMI out.....could use about 6 in, and 2 out.......
Only 2 audio inputs via RCA
and a few other shortcomings.....
I don't want to have to call the dealer to make any major changes in the system..... I like to tinker with things....


But soundwise, I was very impressed....


So what to do ?


How is everyone dealing with limited inputs ?
Just curious, did you not discuss this with the person who was selling you the machine?
I am pretty sure you can make your own Zones with separate EQ Filters matching what speakers and devises you have via the Macro setup screen. Maybe Peter could chime in as he has done some pretty wild setups and I believe he is a dealer as well, so also could assist setups like that.


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