Official DataSat RS20i thread. (Setup Tips, Questions,General Info, etc) - Page 65 - AVS Forum
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post #1921 of 1940 Old 10-10-2014, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Interesting - was DRC on in the RS20i when you did your comparisons to the Integra?

Regarding your time alignment software, does this work with subs too? These are often the furthest away in terms of signal delay.

With regards to your question on high and low pass in Dirac, Dirac should be run on the full frequency range for all speakers. The roll off that Nick is referring to is the editing of the target curve.
DRC was on and changing that fixed some of the issues.

I don't use the time alignment function for the subs. I run frequency sweeps on the center channel (eventually on all channels) and adjust the sub distance until the smoothest FR at/near the crossover point.

When I listen with the "full range to subs" unchecked in bass management (as I was instructed to do) the bass is very anemic. When I check it, much better. What has been your experience?

One more question (for now): if I want to use an PEQ's, do I create them prior to measuring for Dirac or does it make any difference. It would seem before would be the logical way.

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post #1922 of 1940 Old 10-10-2014, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
I always find it quite amusing when forum users openly dispute another users findings having never conducted the disputed test themselves!
I wasn't disputing anything, just pointing out some other amazing things Auromatic can do, besides playing back an Atmos soundtrack better than Atmos decoding itself.

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post #1923 of 1940 Old 10-10-2014, 09:59 AM
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My 4k3dtv plays atmos discs quite amazingly so why shouldn't auro matic or trinnov remapped heights?

The fact is you can't hide that extra atmos sauce, it manifests itself through any playback method.

Of course we all want the atmos decoder but in the meantime what harm is done?
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post #1924 of 1940 Old 10-10-2014, 05:03 PM
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Astonishing... but I'll write more later.



NOW, onto Godzilla in Auromatic.

My Home Theater of the Month- Le Petit Trianon

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009

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post #1925 of 1940 Old 10-10-2014, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
My 4k3dtv plays atmos discs quite amazingly so why shouldn't auro matic or trinnov remapped heights?
Of course we all want the atmos decoder but in the meantime what harm is done?
No harm at all. But Trinnov remapping is an interpolator, not an extrapolator.

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post #1926 of 1940 Old 10-10-2014, 07:24 PM
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Good stuff on the Demo BD. Particularly the test signals page that warns of high, damaging output... So, of course, gotta check out at max volume! Hard to see but when you click to the test tones screen, you have to click a second time just to get to the test tones. Apparently they worry some will damage their set ups!!


One of the demos was a Spanish featurette (4:3 aspect) - haven't masked to that ratio in quite a while - it is clear I have to reset the masks as I'm coming up a bit short on each side ... but wow, it is clear the acoustical properties of this new height layer adds so much not only to the musical soundtrack of the Spanish film but the speed and movement of rear pans at ear level and higher on action flicks is truly something and very new to home cinema. 7.1 is relatively flat comparatively. The 'Guardians of the Galaxy' Auro demo is one of the best demos I've ever heard - the Auro mix of it is fantastical. The recording itself was so nice with very tight, low bass but the rear high and low rear pans were something. The soundstage up front is just huge when the front heights fire. Really fun stuff.

We are in for very good improvements in sound when more Auro and ATMOS hits.






Jeff

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post #1927 of 1940 Old 10-10-2014, 10:16 PM
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Good stuff on the Demo BD. Particularly the test signals page that warns of high, damaging output... So, of course, gotta check out at max volume! Hard to see but when you click to the test tones screen, you have to click a second time just to get to the test tones. Apparently they worry some will damage their set ups!!


One of the demos was a Spanish featurette (4:3 aspect) - haven't masked to that ratio in quite a while - it is clear I have to reset the masks as I'm coming up a bit short on each side ... but wow, it is clear the acoustical properties of this new height layer adds so much not only to the musical soundtrack of the Spanish film but the speed and movement of rear pans at ear level and higher on action flicks is truly something and very new to home cinema. 7.1 is relatively flat comparatively. The 'Guardians of the Galaxy' Auro demo is one of the best demos I've ever heard - the Auro mix of it is fantastical. The recording itself was so nice with very tight, low bass but the rear high and low rear pans were something. The soundstage up front is just huge when the front heights fire. Really fun stuff.

We are in for very good improvements in sound when more Auro and ATMOS hits.






Jeff
That last picture is testament to your tasteful showmanship Jeff.
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post #1928 of 1940 Old 10-10-2014, 10:40 PM
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Wait, I've got some of those too:

- I was playing language tapes through Auromatic and my German shepherd now barks in French.

- I bought a car with Auromatic built-in, as I drove it off the lot it increased in value.

- Superman has pajamas with the Auromatic logo.

- When a tree falls in the forest and no one is there, you can still hear it with Auromatic.

- If opportunity knocks, but you're busy listening to music through Auromatic, opportunity will wait.

- Playing a Charlie Chaplin film using Auromatic can make a weeping willow laugh.

- The designer of Auromatic won the lifetime achievement award...twice!
Sanjay, Thank you for showing your range from the most exacting and encyclopaedic technician, to your sophomoric humour that comes across as verbal egg throwing at those that experiment with instinctively presented comparison opportunities.
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post #1929 of 1940 Old 10-10-2014, 10:44 PM
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Sanjay, Thank you...
You're welcome.

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post #1930 of 1940 Old 10-11-2014, 05:59 AM
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That last picture is testament to your tasteful showmanship Jeff.
Peter, it was a testament ot the design. All these years later, I still love the understated entry to my theater. Thanks!

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There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #1931 of 1940 Old 10-11-2014, 10:05 AM
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Just wanted to share some thoughts on the Auro Demo Disc.

Firstly, and not because it's auro content, it's one of the best demo discs I own. I own virtually ALL dolby and DTS demo discs all the way back to Laser disc days.

The Auro disc has probably the biggest run time with full music tracks and not just clips. It's one and only let down for me is film content. It's a choice of 3 blockbuster cartoons, Rise Of The Guardians, The Croods and Turbo. Now I'm not a cartoon fan, infact they irritate me. But I think Turbo sounded very good. In fact they all did but I just can't review them without getting slightly irritated.

There is an odd Spanish clip..... Just odd.

2 Bollywood films. Again, really not my cup of tea. And the first clip is typically Bollywood. Not only is the acting OTT but so is the sound mixing with way too much VOG action, to the point it's distracting. The second Bollywood clip is better. I must say this is the only time I've actually be able to locate the VOG in any mix.

Dolphin clip is very good. Very immersive as if your underwater with a dolphin.

And Day_6011 is a computer animated short about robots. Great sounds. Excellent use of panning.

Music clips are just superb. I can not fault any of them.

The jazz clip is so sparkly and lively. Just makes you want to turn up the sound to the max. Auro delivering an element of air and spaciousness which helps to liven things up.

There are a few 2L classical tracks that we all know. Of course these are second to non.

One that really stood out for me was Paul Giger - Pert Em Hru. A choral, Latin chant / singing track. What auro has done is really transport you to where this was recorded. It feels as tho it was recorded in a large cathedral and at points sounds like there up singers up in the gods. Must note this is a 9.0 track so no VOG.

At other times it's captured that sound you get when a choir fills a hall with sound and you get that long decay time of a huge high ceiling. Just mind blowing.

And there is an ethnic centric broken beat type track in 10.1. I really liked this. With the sitar coming strong from up front and an amalgam of sounds coming from all over. But all very natural and not once ott.

There are plenty other tracks which I'll leave others to discuss.

My favourite tracks are the ambient tracks. Especially the tractor. Wow. Birds chirping all around and you slowly hear a tractor coming from behind left and slowly getting closer and closer until it smoothly passes to the front left and gradually fades away. Not once are any speakers locatable and I'm currently 2-3 foot from my left surround.

Right, got to fly. Will write more later.
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post #1932 of 1940 Old 10-11-2014, 01:31 PM
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Nice review Nick! Should be getting my disc Monday - good to hear there is a, to on it! I don't mind animations, so I should be alright
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post #1933 of 1940 Old 10-11-2014, 01:38 PM
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Quick question, has anyone tried using the DB25 digital inputs on their RS20i?

I made up a XLR to DB25 cable recently in order to use the AES/EBU output of my NAD M50 streamer as NAD recommend it as the best output.

What I use the DB25 digital input though I can no longer access the decoder button in the bass management screen, nor can I seem to apply any post processing such as Auro3D. Has anyone else encountered this?

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post #1934 of 1940 Old 10-12-2014, 08:06 AM
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What I use the DB25 digital input though I can no longer access the decoder button in the bass management screen, nor can I seem to apply any post processing such as Auro3D. Has anyone else encountered this?
That goes against the response from my question to Wilfred, when he told me it was possible to upmix with auromatic legacy 7.1 dci cinema tracks....here
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post #1935 of 1940 Old 10-12-2014, 08:24 AM
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That goes against the response from my question to Wilfred, when he told me it was possible to upmix with auromatic legacy 7.1 dci cinema tracks....here
Thanks for the reply Peter, but I'm talking specifically about the RS20i - no sure if Wilfred would be familiar with this(?).

By way of more detail, I'm sending stereo AES/EBU into channels 1 and 2 of the DB25. Whilst I seem to be able to select Auro3D from the home screen, it has no effect, and if I try to acces the decoder settings page it is greyed out in the pro navigation screen (and the button doesn't work via the bass management screen).

Also when a setting the source via the input screen, when you select SPDIF it HDMI etc the graphic to the right shows "Decoder -> Processor", but selecting the DB25 digital input it just says "Processor".

I have come to the assumption that post processing simply can't be applied via the DB25 inputs, as it bypasses the decoder section - unless there is a setting I am missing?
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post #1936 of 1940 Old 10-12-2014, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Thanks for the reply Peter, but I'm talking specifically about the RS20i - no sure if Wilfred would be familiar with this(?).

By way of more detail, I'm sending stereo AES/EBU into channels 1 and 2 of the DB25. Whilst I seem to be able to select Auro3D from the home screen, it has no effect, and if I try to acces the decoder settings page it is greyed out in the pro navigation screen (and the button doesn't work via the bass management screen).

Also when a setting the source via the input screen, when you select SPDIF it HDMI etc the graphic to the right shows "Decoder -> Processor", but selecting the DB25 digital input it just says "Processor".

I have come to the assumption that post processing simply can't be applied via the DB25 inputs, as it bypasses the decoder section - unless there is a setting I am missing?
When I asked Wilfred I seemed to recall that this limitation would be there that is why I was happy to hear.


This all has to do with preserving the directors intentios on 7.1 tracks. Something I find too restrictive in Dolby Surround and I guess Auromatic upcoversions.
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post #1937 of 1940 Old 10-12-2014, 01:48 PM
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Some specific "how to" questions for existing users:

1. When you run Dirac, is it critical to have "full range to subs" turned off in Bass Management or does Dirac ignore it? I already learned that "enable bass mgmt" should be turned off.

2. I tried set up a PEQ on the subs prior to running Dirac and while I was told that Dirac would include that in it's measurements and subsequent filter calculation, it does not appear to have worked that way? Is that not how it is supposed to operate?

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post #1938 of 1940 Old 10-13-2014, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Some specific "how to" questions for existing users:

1. When you run Dirac, is it critical to have "full range to subs" turned off in Bass Management or does Dirac ignore it? I already learned that "enable bass mgmt" should be turned off.

2. I tried set up a PEQ on the subs prior to running Dirac and while I was told that Dirac would include that in it's measurements and subsequent filter calculation, it does not appear to have worked that way? Is that not how it is supposed to operate?
1. Dirac definitely ignores bass management settings. This is easily verified if you look at the measurements. I think at one point you had to manually turn BM off but not any more.


2. Not sure. Did you verify the PEQ filter was working?

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post #1939 of 1940 Old 10-13-2014, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Thanks for the reply Peter, but I'm talking specifically about the RS20i - no sure if Wilfred would be familiar with this(?).

By way of more detail, I'm sending stereo AES/EBU into channels 1 and 2 of the DB25. Whilst I seem to be able to select Auro3D from the home screen, it has no effect, and if I try to acces the decoder settings page it is greyed out in the pro navigation screen (and the button doesn't work via the bass management screen).

Also when a setting the source via the input screen, when you select SPDIF it HDMI etc the graphic to the right shows "Decoder -> Processor", but selecting the DB25 digital input it just says "Processor".

I have come to the assumption that post processing simply can't be applied via the DB25 inputs, as it bypasses the decoder section - unless there is a setting I am missing?
Have you set your DB25 input to DB1.2 rather than DB1-2? Only the former invokes the decoder allowing expansion of the input. This works fine for me. You can see with Input/Source that the decoder is in-line with DB1.2 but not for DB1-2. I also can see decoder choices with DB1-2 but they obviously do not affect the signal, so probably just a display error.

Also assume you have more than 2 channels on your output, as naturally you will not have any decoder choices if your output is only stereo.

I am not using the Auro upgrade, so if DB1.2 does not work for you a problem may have introduced with the upgrade.
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post #1940 of 1940 Old 10-14-2014, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by GGA View Post
Have you set your DB25 input to DB1.2 rather than DB1-2? Only the former invokes the decoder allowing expansion of the input. This works fine for me. You can see with Input/Source that the decoder is in-line with DB1.2 but not for DB1-2. I also can see decoder choices with DB1-2 but they obviously do not affect the signal, so probably just a display error.

Also assume you have more than 2 channels on your output, as naturally you will not have any decoder choices if your output is only stereo.

I am not using the Auro upgrade, so if DB1.2 does not work for you a problem may have introduced with the upgrade.
GGA, you're a star! That worked perfectly, thanks very much. It never occurred to me to keep pressing the input source button to see if it rotated between different input types.

I've just given it a quick test, and it is now applying Dolby, DTS and Auro post-processing to my stereo input! Thanks again.

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