Official DataSat RS20i thread. (Setup Tips, Questions,General Info, etc) - Page 67 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+)

hifiaudio2's Avatar hifiaudio2
02:07 PM Liked: 77
post #1981 of 2123
12-01-2014 | Posts: 2,736
Joined: Oct 2001
Since you guys in this thread have the most real world experience with Dirac, I thought I would ask here. Emotiva is about to enable Dirac on the XMC-1. The XMC has two independent sub outputs, and I have 4 subs. I can set this up one of two ways..

1) Use my current setup where I have time aligned the 4 subs with an outboard Xilica processor and the help of some fine folk at the Home Theater Shack and REW. I would connect the 4 subs to just one output of the XMC as I have now and let Dirac do its thing while "hearing" the combined response of all 4 subs on that one output.

2) Connect the front and rear subs to one output and left and right subs to the second output, turning off all attempts to time align the subs in the Xilica. The front and rear are pretty close to the same distance from the MLP (maybe a foot difference at most I think) and the left and right are also similar. Then just let the XMC Dirac setup hear each set of subs separately and do its calculations.


I realize the XMC's iteration of Dirac may differ a bit from the Datasat, but if you assumed that the Datasat had only two sub outputs, which of the above methods would you use?


... I also suppose that if it mattered I could attempt to make the time alignment of the front/rear and left/right even closer by still using the delays of the Xilica even if I chose option #2 above instead of just letting them pass the signals through.

Thanks for any help and I don't want to hijack a Datasat thread, but there will be limited users of the XMC with 4 subs and an outboard EQ at their disposal and you guys have great experience with this.
sdurani's Avatar sdurani
02:33 PM Liked: 1137
post #1982 of 2123
12-01-2014 | Posts: 20,211
Joined: Oct 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post
Then just let the XMC Dirac setup hear each set of subs separately and do its calculations.
During normal playback will each set of subs be getting different signals?
hifiaudio2's Avatar hifiaudio2
02:43 PM Liked: 77
post #1983 of 2123
12-01-2014 | Posts: 2,736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
During normal playback will each set of subs be getting different signals?
No.
sdurani's Avatar sdurani
02:48 PM Liked: 1137
post #1984 of 2123
12-01-2014 | Posts: 20,211
Joined: Oct 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post
No.
Then I wouldn't EQ them independently. IF you're going to be hearing the interaction of all 4 subs, then EQ the interaction of all 4 subs.
hifiaudio2's Avatar hifiaudio2
02:53 PM Liked: 77
post #1985 of 2123
12-01-2014 | Posts: 2,736
Joined: Oct 2001
Ok cool...so I will stick with option #1 . Its the easiest to setup anyway since it is basically done except for enabling Dirac and running it.
JapanDave's Avatar JapanDave
03:17 PM Liked: 104
post #1986 of 2123
12-01-2014 | Posts: 2,407
Joined: Jul 2009
I put all 12 subs on one channel and time align them in the RS20i. I then run Dirac on that channel. I tried separating them and I found I had best results grouping them.
Wookii's Avatar Wookii
03:42 PM Liked: 47
post #1987 of 2123
12-01-2014 | Posts: 460
Joined: Aug 2008
What device do you use to time align the individual subs Dave?

I have just set mine up on a miniDSP running out of a single RS20i channel - excellent little device, let's me adjust delays and levels and add a bit of initial PEQ to each sub individually.
stephenbr's Avatar stephenbr
10:15 PM Liked: 25
post #1988 of 2123
12-01-2014 | Posts: 478
Joined: Jan 2004
In my set up I master and slave my 2 F113s (they are symmetrically placed in my room) so they are running from one channel and are then EQ'd as a single unit. This allows me to have the 15 other channels free for a full 15 channel Auro set up (which I have yet to install!).
hifiaudio2's Avatar hifiaudio2
07:16 AM Liked: 77
post #1989 of 2123
12-02-2014 | Posts: 2,736
Joined: Oct 2001
Cool thanks for the input. Sounds like grouping them all as one sub output and time aligning before handing off to Dirac is the consensus.
DanFrancis's Avatar DanFrancis
06:00 PM Liked: 24
post #1990 of 2123
12-02-2014 | Posts: 1,865
Joined: Aug 2002
When I had the RS20i in our demo room I fed 8 subwoofers with 1 input signal (via channel routing), this was before he bass management system was finalized- so we had to play with different configurations to get the various channels to work well.

Initially, I paired our front 2 side woofers with the mains as the lowpass, the side 2 and rear 2 and front 2 were all fed the LFE signal. the levels screen was great for getting things nice and tight balance-wise.

Dan
GGA's Avatar GGA
06:24 PM Liked: 16
post #1991 of 2123
12-02-2014 | Posts: 723
Joined: Dec 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post
When I had the RS20i in our demo room I fed 8 subwoofers with 1 input signal (via channel routing), this was before he bass management system was finalized- so we had to play with different configurations to get the various channels to work well.

Initially, I paired our front 2 side woofers with the mains as the lowpass, the side 2 and rear 2 and front 2 were all fed the LFE signal. the levels screen was great for getting things nice and tight balance-wise.

Dan
Hi Dan, I am a little confused by your old setup.

You have a total of 8 subs, two each of the following:

front side (these are located somewhere between the front and side subs?)
front
side
rear

You say that all 8 subs were driven with one input signal (the LFE I assume), but I think you mean only 6 subs were so driven, the fronts, sides, and rears, as you state in second paragraph. The front side left sub received only the LP from the left front main speaker and same for right main front and right front side, effectively making the front main left and right full range speakers. Is that right? Where did the LP from all the other speakers go?
DanFrancis's Avatar DanFrancis
07:25 PM Liked: 24
post #1992 of 2123
12-02-2014 | Posts: 1,865
Joined: Aug 2002
Yup, sorry, I mistyped. I meant 6 off lfe and 2 off full range mains. Back then the prototype had really basic bass management: like only large or small with rather limited options beyond crossover frequency (you also had frequency at the channel mapping screen). Even basic bass management will steer bass from all channels to the sub output, in this particular case I grouped it so I had 12 Dirac channels to cover the entire theater: 7 high pass and the 8 subs (paired some up).

I think what I ended up doing was run all 7 channels as small and send bass to all 8 subs since the sound wasn't all that different between the 2 scenarios and I had the added benefit of the extra subs during stereo playback (smoother and tighter bass).

When I received the final production unit the bass management was vastly more flexible and offered better options for bass steering. That unit was tested purely for menu functionality feedback, the sound hadn't changed at all.

Dan
thebland's Avatar thebland
06:23 AM Liked: 197
post #1993 of 2123
12-06-2014 | Posts: 24,139
Joined: Jan 2001
Anyone using IRULE with the DATASAT??

I need help figuring out FEEDBACK showing the SURROUND MODE that is in use (e.g. AURO 3D, PLL IIx, PL IIz, DTS NEOx).

Anyone??

Thanks!!


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yapota's Avatar yapota
07:29 PM Liked: 10
post #1994 of 2123
12-09-2014 | Posts: 40
Joined: Oct 2002
Hi

Over the weekend I connected my Astell & Kern 120MKII digital audio player via optical out to the Datasat RS20i using a Toslink optical cable. The foramt being out put by the Datasat is shownig as PCM2.0. Whilst the sound quality is very good on standard 16nit/44KHZ tracks, when I played DSD or 24bit/192khz tracks it still outputted PCM 2.0. Is this correct and what is the best way to listen to 2 channel audio on a processor like Datasat? What is the configuration that most people use for 2 channel audio?

Thanks in advance for your help.
Wookii's Avatar Wookii
01:18 AM Liked: 47
post #1995 of 2123
12-10-2014 | Posts: 460
Joined: Aug 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by yapota View Post
Hi

Over the weekend I connected my Astell & Kern 120MKII digital audio player via optical out to the Datasat RS20i using a Toslink optical cable. The foramt being out put by the Datasat is shownig as PCM2.0. Whilst the sound quality is very good on standard 16nit/44KHZ tracks, when I played DSD or 24bit/192khz tracks it still outputted PCM 2.0.
Is the Astell & Kern device able to output DSD over its optical connection? Though its a mute point, as the RS20i can't handle DSD streams sadly, they have to be pre-converted to PCM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yapota View Post
Is this correct and what is the best way to listen to 2 channel audio on a processor like Datasat?
Well its a perfectly acceptable way to get digital music into the RS20i, but given that it has balanced digital inputs it might be worth trying those if you have device that supports them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yapota View Post
What is the configuration that most people use for 2 channel audio?

Thanks in advance for your help.
For most of my 2 channel music I use my seperate two channel stereo system, but when using the RS20i in my multi-channel system, pretty much exclusively via the Auro3D upmixer.
Back_to_the_Sound
11:00 AM Liked: 4
post #1996 of 2123
12-14-2014 | Posts: 68
Joined: Jul 2014
The Atmos sound is coming only in 2015 (February maybe) on the Datasat because they are making improvments in the sound.

One thing is buying a Denon with Atmos decoding, another thing is a High End Processor to deliver the full scale detailed sound.
Bassfeen's Avatar Bassfeen
08:41 PM Liked: 12
post #1997 of 2123
12-16-2014 | Posts: 156
Joined: Apr 2011
Hi All,


Been following this thread for few months now but giving up on my Home Theatre hobby due to life style change, moving out of a home and into a apartment. I am selling all my Gear including my Datasat.


I have a Datasat RS20I advertised at the Classified section for $15,000 dollars Including the Microphone Kit and Dirac License. This is upgraded to latest firmware but with out the Auro3d upgrades. 2 ~Year warranty is included the unit is logged with Datasat USA. Just trying to get rid of my speaker and processor the amps are all sold.


Price of the Unit with out the Microphone Kit & Diract License CD. $13,500.00


Link: Datasat RS20I Processor with Diract Microphone Kit & License
Wookii's Avatar Wookii
03:14 PM Liked: 47
post #1998 of 2123
12-20-2014 | Posts: 460
Joined: Aug 2008
Can anyone with the Auro3D upgrade AND dirac engaged, confirm for me whether you can get the Auro upmixer (or indeed any of the upmixers) to work on 24/192 stereo files?

Mine seems to be working fine on all files of 24/96 or below, but as soon as I switch to 24/192 all I get is stereo?!

Not sure if its a setting error on my part or a Datasat limitation?
djnickuk's Avatar djnickuk
09:39 PM Liked: 41
post #1999 of 2123
12-20-2014 | Posts: 861
Joined: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Can anyone with the Auro3D upgrade AND dirac engaged, confirm for me whether you can get the Auro upmixer (or indeed any of the upmixers) to work on 24/192 stereo files?

Mine seems to be working fine on all files of 24/96 or below, but as soon as I switch to 24/192 all I get is stereo?!

Not sure if its a setting error on my part or a Datasat limitation?
Yeah no go here also. Do have support of 88.2khz tho. Which is nice as one can now upmix SACD played from oppo. But they clearly by pass the processing with 96k and up.
Wookii's Avatar Wookii
01:40 AM Liked: 47
post #2000 of 2123
12-22-2014 | Posts: 460
Joined: Aug 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post
Yeah no go here also. Do have support of 88.2khz tho. Which is nice as one can now upmix SACD played from oppo. But they clearly by pass the processing with 96k and up.
Thanks Nick - yeah that is a shame. I thought I got 96Khz tracks upmixing, but I can't be sure so I'll retest - certainly nothing above does.

I assume its an Auro limitation rather than a Datasat one? (I might try and get one of the Denon owners to test it out to see if they are similarly afflicted), I thought the down sampling to 96Khz by Dirac, was bad enough but not being able to upmix hi-res tracks is a real PITA.
djnickuk's Avatar djnickuk
03:17 AM Liked: 41
post #2001 of 2123
12-22-2014 | Posts: 861
Joined: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Thanks Nick - yeah that is a shame. I thought I got 96Khz tracks upmixing, but I can't be sure so I'll retest - certainly nothing above does.

I assume its an Auro limitation rather than a Datasat one? (I might try and get one of the Denon owners to test it out to see if they are similarly afflicted), I thought the down sampling to 96Khz by Dirac, was bad enough but not being able to upmix hi-res tracks is a real PITA.
Yeah sorry. I miss typed. 96 kHz is fine. It's just anything over. And not AURO. It's the DATAsat. It has the capability it's just dirac and its EQ shelving operates at 96. What it should do is down sample... And I'm sure it used to.
Wookii's Avatar Wookii
03:24 AM Liked: 47
post #2002 of 2123
12-22-2014 | Posts: 460
Joined: Aug 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post
Yeah sorry. I miss typed. 96 kHz is fine. It's just anything over. And not AURO. It's the DATAsat. It has the capability it's just dirac and its EQ shelving operates at 96. What it should do is down sample... And I'm sure it used to.
That's a good point, I have not tried it both with and without Dirac engaged to see if the upmixer works if Dirac is turned off?

That would a little odd though as doesn't the decoder sit upstream of Dirac?

As you say, what should be happening is that the decoder should apply Auro to the incoming 2 channel 24/192 stream and then down sampling to 96KHz should occur in order to allow Dirac processing.

Dan if you are watching, can you shed some light on this?
djnickuk's Avatar djnickuk
05:00 AM Liked: 41
post #2003 of 2123
12-22-2014 | Posts: 861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
That's a good point, I have not tried it both with and without Dirac engaged to see if the upmixer works if Dirac is turned off?

That would a little odd though as doesn't the decoder sit upstream of Dirac?

As you say, what should be happening is that the decoder should apply Auro to the incoming 2 channel 24/192 stream and then down sampling to 96KHz should occur in order to allow Dirac processing.

Dan if you are watching, can you shed some light on this?
Again sorry I typed that badly, when I say Eq shelving I didn't mean that of dirac, the whole dirac, PEQ and 1/3rd octave runs at 96. But yes it should just bypass all that if over 96k.
thebland's Avatar thebland
09:29 PM Liked: 197
post #2004 of 2123
12-22-2014 | Posts: 24,139
Joined: Jan 2001
The best demo disc I've had in my system. Peter was right. Up mixed Atmos sounds Dwan native like in Auromatic!

Santa (err, Peter) shipped up a great gift!




Thanks!
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djnickuk's Avatar djnickuk
10:59 PM Liked: 41
post #2005 of 2123
12-22-2014 | Posts: 861
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Yes it's good isn't it!
kamenoff's Avatar kamenoff
01:12 AM Liked: 15
post #2006 of 2123
12-23-2014 | Posts: 234
Joined: Aug 2011
Jeff, if I understand correctly you playing Atmos disc in Auro 3D set up?Are they compatible?
djnickuk's Avatar djnickuk
03:11 AM Liked: 41
post #2007 of 2123
12-23-2014 | Posts: 861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kamenoff View Post
Jeff, if I understand correctly you playing Atmos disc in Auro 3D set up?Are they compatible?
Well it compatible as one is taking the dolby true hd stream and putting it thru auromatic. And in my head I think it sounds better in AURO but the processor used to compare against with Atmos is not really up to DATASAT standards.
thebland's Avatar thebland
06:15 AM Liked: 197
post #2008 of 2123
12-23-2014 | Posts: 24,139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kamenoff View Post
Jeff, if I understand correctly you playing Atmos disc in Auro 3D set up?Are they compatible?
Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post
Well it compatible as one is taking the dolby true hd stream and putting it thru auromatic. And in my head I think it sounds better in AURO but the processor used to compare against with Atmos is not really up to DATASAT standards.

Even compared to the Auro Native Demo disc (which I have), this disc is the more impressive listening experience. The recordings are incredibly more dynamic and the spatial effects seem almost native. Not to mention, the bass on this mix is far hotter than the Auro disc. It was hard for me to believe but this disc is amazing...

And to give credit to Peter, he predicted this excellent effect with Atmos native discs on Auromatic.
stephenbr's Avatar stephenbr
05:38 PM Liked: 25
post #2009 of 2123
12-30-2014 | Posts: 478
Joined: Jan 2004
Interesting to note that Datasat has not been specifically mentioned as a manufacturer supporting DTS:X.
7channelfreak's Avatar 7channelfreak
06:02 PM Liked: 83
post #2010 of 2123
12-30-2014 | Posts: 669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenbr View Post
Interesting to note that Datat has not been specifically mentioned as a manufacturer supporting DTS:X.
Oh I Know it'll have it but that stood out when I read the press release as well. Aren't they sister companies?

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