Official DataSat RS20i thread. (Setup Tips, Questions,General Info, etc) - Page 78 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2311 of 2337 Old 03-30-2015, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post
So long as you can chose to engage Atmos as native or ignore the ATMOS flags, then you should still be able to apply Auro to the atmos stream as you can now. I know the denons and Marantz processors are no where near the level of the DataSat but EVERY atmos disk I have played back thru AURO on the DATASAT sounds so much better than atmos does thru the denons etc. all else in the chain remains the same... Just the processors are changed out.
I sure hop that is not the case with the datasat, it's a disturbing thought.
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post #2312 of 2337 Old 03-30-2015, 06:20 AM
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I honestly don't think 80% of the users even need more than 16 channels but then again I could be wrong.

I do like the warmth of the Datasat myself, am hopeful 16 speakers suffice for most homes. Unfortunately using the Gravity Houston Houston clip, the more speakers you have the tighter the sound effects wrap around your head. Ive heard that clip in maybe 25 different cinema show demos the only two that did it right was Dolby Premiere, and JBL Synthesis segment, they all had more than 38 speakers.
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post #2313 of 2337 Old 03-30-2015, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
I do like the warmth of the Datasat myself, am hopeful 16 speakers suffice for most homes. Unfortunately using the Gravity Houston Houston clip, the more speakers you have the tighter the sound effects wrap around your head. Ive heard that clip in maybe 25 different cinema show demos the only two that did it right was Dolby Premiere, and JBL Synthesis segment, they all had more than 38 speakers.


I agree 100% not only is it warm sounding, its transparent at the same time and has gobs of bass. I guess those 38 speaker system is for private theatres?

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post #2314 of 2337 Old 03-30-2015, 06:57 AM
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I agree 100% not only is it warm sounding, its transparent at the same time and has gobs of bass. I guess those 38 speaker system is for private theatres?
Some but home too, we have the first one TRITON going in Germany with Quested. 34 speakers 32 channels. And remapping on front heights and ceiling rows.
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post #2315 of 2337 Old 03-30-2015, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
Some but home too, we have the first one TRITON going in Germany with Quested. 34 speakers 32 channels. And remapping on front heights and ceiling rows.



With Trinnov? If so I wander how that sounds! only if you could stack up and make 2 Datasat work together for 32 channels that would be cool!

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post #2316 of 2337 Old 03-30-2015, 09:51 AM
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With Trinnov? If so I wander how that sounds! only if you could stack up and make 2 Datasat work together for 32 channels that would be cool!
Apparently from initial tests on the initial 18 LT-24 the Questeds are sounding good with it, and Curt is babysitting the whole thing so it will be good.

We will know better when the other 10 mainly front z speakers get there.

Stacked Datasats wont work there is a 16 channel input limitation.

The Trinnov will sound great with the help of or for experienced audio people/owners.

What I love about the datasat is that it will always get you 85% there within first half day.

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post #2317 of 2337 Old 03-30-2015, 01:21 PM
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Overhere the first commercial Atmos theaters, not too large at 300-400 seats, use 64 speakers.

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post #2318 of 2337 Old 03-30-2015, 08:27 PM
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post #2319 of 2337 Old 03-30-2015, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
The maximum achievable with a home theater hdmi based unit is 32 channels 34 speakers, currently Trinnov Altitude can do, datasat can do 16, Theta will go up to 24, but by that time Datasat will also have something.

The cp-850 cinema dolby unit that is now hdmi home atmos compatible has a limit of 64 channels.


Ahh Datasat is making new Processor to counter punch Trinnov :-)

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post #2320 of 2337 Old 03-30-2015, 09:29 PM
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With the Theta Casablanca we are headed for lots of channels.. 24+.. Casablanca of course is known for amazing dacs and appeals heavily to 2 Channel audiophiles and multi channel rooms demanding high end dacs and total upgradability..

The RS20 is gaining traction and my new unit should be here in a week or so.. I also brought in a LS10 to play with to compare as well..

I believe that theta and datasat will have some great years coming with their expandability and growing customer base.. I worry about some other brands being discussed here as the footprint is very small and I don't think a lot of them will be around..

Theta has been at this for almost 20 years and datasat has its feet in commercial theaters which makes their processors so interesting. People get the fact that if its good for an imax theater its gotta be good for my home and I agree..

The channel amounts are getting silly as people think they want 32 plus and ultimately how many people are going to have more than 16/20 channels ?

I'm super excited about my new datasat units and I will update you guys more as I make some progress with them..

Thx
Craig
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post #2321 of 2337 Old 03-30-2015, 09:33 PM
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Ps.. I ordered both units with auro and I ordered Dirac for the rs20 which I didn't have on my original rs20..

The Casablanca Dirac is turning out to be a miracle and I expect it to be the same on my rs20.. Can't wait..

Joerod, are you using Dirac on your 20 ?

Craig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassfeen View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
The maximum achievable with a home theater hdmi based unit is 32 channels 34 speakers, currently Trinnov Altitude can do, datasat can do 16, Theta will go up to 24, but by that time Datasat will also have something.

The cp-850 cinema dolby unit that is now hdmi home atmos compatible has a limit of 64 channels.


Ahh Datasat is making new Processor to counter punch Trinnov :-)
Bass
I don't think they need a new chassis.. Have you seen the back of the rs20? Lots of card slots for expansion.. I am sure with their over engineered processors that they can add another 16 channels no problem..

This is why theta and datasat will rule this business .. Their hardware upgradability is supreme ..
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post #2323 of 2337 Old 03-30-2015, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by VGI View Post

The channel amounts are getting silly as people think they want 32 plus and ultimately how many people are going to have more than 16/20 channels ?
Hi Craig, I agree with your comments but your dismissal of high channel counts is GREATLY MISINFORMED, and in my opinion Naive. Seek out the 32 channel experiences where you will find objects tracking way closer to your head than in those that do not have that resolution, it is very simple, instruments are positioned in just one speaker in some of the latest mixes, so whomever says 32 is too much, you are gravely miss informed do the Gravity Houston Houston test, it should image exactly like in the Atmos Room.


Seek and you should find. 32 channels is good.

Best!
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Bass
I don't think they need a new chassis.. Have you seen the back of the rs20? Lots of card slots for expansion.. I am sure with their over engineered processors that they can add another 16 channels no problem..


Ahead of you on that one, I tried last October.

Trust me the rs-20i maxes out at 16 inputs. I had already proposed the stack only to find out not possible.
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post #2325 of 2337 Old 03-30-2015, 10:07 PM
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I
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Originally Posted by VGI View Post

The channel amounts are getting silly as people think they want 32 plus and ultimately how many people are going to have more than 16/20 channels ?
Hi Craig, I agree with your comments but your dismissal of high channel counts is GREATLY MISINFORMED, and in my opinion Naive. Seek out the 32 channel experiences where you will find objects tracking way closer to your head than in those that do not have that resolution, it is very simple, instruments are positioned in just one speaker in some of the latest mixes, so whomever says 32 is too much, you are gravely miss informed do the Gravity Houston Houston test, it should image exactly like in the Atmos Room.


Seek and you should find. 32 channels is good.

Best!
Cine

Where is that room? It has more ceiling speakers than most rooms have surrounds.. That's awesome.. Have you been in it ?

I hear what your saying on high channel counts and Im sure as time progreses and people get to experience atmos rooms they will consider putting more speakers in their rooms.. I hear chatter that auro sounds better than atmos in most situations.. Have you heard this ?
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post #2326 of 2337 Old Yesterday, 03:08 AM
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Originally Posted by VGI View Post
Bass
I don't think they need a new chassis.. Have you seen the back of the rs20? Lots of card slots for expansion.. I am sure with their over engineered processors that they can add another 16 channels no problem..

This is why theta and datasat will rule this business .. Their hardware upgradability is supreme ..
Last night i was having a long conversation with a business friend of mine (From Singapore) who also has this crazy hobby for home theater. He tried out the Datasat rs20i but kept his Theta line as he claims Theta sounds better!.... all relative and personal taste i guess. His been in this hobby for over 15 years longer than i have and i gave up on mine lol few months back. Maybe in 2-3 years when i get a proper house il be back with full vengeance!

I cant compare the Datasat to Theta, as i have not yet heard the theta line, but im very sure its right up there with Datasat for Sure.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by VGI View Post
Bass
I don't think they need a new chassis.. Have you seen the back of the rs20? Lots of card slots for expansion.. I am sure with their over engineered processors that they can add another 16 channels no problem..


Ahead of you on that one, I tried last October.

Trust me the rs-20i maxes out at 16 inputs. I had already proposed the stack only to find out not possible.
Cine

Just spoke to datasat .. Rs20 has 24 outputs and they sell two in a pair if you need 32 outputs.. They actually have a special price for when you buy two together for a 32 output solution..

Not sure why you think it's only 16..
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post #2328 of 2337 Old Yesterday, 07:50 AM
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Cine

Just spoke to datasat .. Rs20 has 24 outputs and they sell two in a pair if you need 32 outputs.. They actually have a special price for when you buy two together for a 32 output solution..

Not sure why you think it's only 16..
Only 16 channel inputs, you cannot get 32 channels of atmos for example, which is the main purpose to me. I am compiling pics to explain my post above about GRAVITY PREMIERE IN DOLBY ROOM ABOVE after that it will be significantly clear why I so covet the 32 channel pieces. Take care.
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I flew in a red eye from Moscow after firing up the trinnov remapped height channels on the quested b-chain system.

The Gravity soundtrack went through my gut, and around my head unlike anything I had heard before, creepily close. That moment changed my focus from video projection to immersive audio, and i continued to seek similar demo in many venues, NOT POSSIBLE TO RECREATE, unitl JBL at CEDIA, then yes.

As much as I loved the sonic pirrouttes having just experienced the Quested B-Chain I lrealized Hollywood needs to revamp all production b-chains. My current mission wher I am discovering incorrect screen ergonomics, acoustics, low quality dacs etc etc. We intend to correct this in PROTEUS the next gen in Atmos Soundstage ergonomics, and I am fighting my way into obtining DOLBY HDR so that the music dynamics can track screen dynamics, Dolby had not thought of this before apparently, glad to help open their eyes to this cool app.








Tony Grimani was there could be him on light blue shirt right below.



You can tell when a mix has been synched to the 3d video, this was unreal, the objects tracked the diverse parallaxes of the presentation.






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post #2330 of 2337 Old Yesterday, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
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Only 16 channel inputs, you cannot get 32 channels of atmos for example, which is the main purpose to me. I am compiling pics to explain my post above about GRAVITY PREMIERE IN DOLBY ROOM ABOVE after that it will be significantly clear why I so covet the 32 channel pieces. Take care.
Peter is correct. You can do additional outputs but you can only get 16 discrete digital inputs. I ran into this issue on a project of mine that required over 20 channels.
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I'm dreaming of having 16+ channels in my HT someday, but I am baffled by one question. How in the world do you power these rooms? 32 speakers would require 7 amps right? What would that require from an electrical standpoint (number of outlets, total current draw, $$$/hr <--- just curious on that one, if you can pay for a 32 speaker setup, I doubt your worried about the power bill).
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I'm dreaming of having 16+ channels in my HT someday, but I am baffled by one question. How in the world do you power these rooms? 32 speakers would require 7 amps right? What would that require from an electrical standpoint (number of outlets, total current draw, $$$/hr <--- just curious on that one, if you can pay for a 32 speaker setup, I doubt your worried about the power bill).


When you have 32 speaker and a large room to install it all in, im sure power bill is not of any concern. If you wana "Go Green" You could always use Class D Amps for everything. That should save some.......

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The power bill is the least of your problems in terms of money.

Unless you do class D and/or efficient speakers, you would also need to look at heat management in a rack as well as the associated dust management.

I have just done 21 channels of NAD M27 ncore amps (3). These dont require cooling nor do they have special power requirements. Since there is no major airflow besides passive convection, there is is really not a serious dust issue.

I am still prepping the rest of the setup with a plan for at least a 24 channel atmos/dts prepro to follow. Casablanca V and trinnov look like good frontrunner options. Datasat and theta's implementation are still a bit of an unknown quantity with final costs of dacs etc being unknown.

I would have liked a casablanca concept with only 2.4 channels in the main box as a standard with all the rest of the channels priced into breakout boxes. I find that when you put an arbitrary number of channels into the box, a person may be spending way too much for just a few more breakout channels.

I would bet most theta owners want Exceptional 2.x ch audio at the highest technical levels. After that, the number of folks wanting atmos etc will vary. Especially the total number of channels a person wants to do would vary dramatically as well.

A lot of 2ch lovers feel less comfortable with "compromises" made on their 2ch experience but then don't want a separate room for movies.

I would want the 2channel performance to have the of benefit best-in-class dacs, bass managament, perfect digital volume control. 120db-130db+ signal to noise from input to output would be a high priority. The cpu/software in the main box with upgradeable codecs/room correction would be great. Removable hdmi boards would be good as well.

Then throw all other channels in dac/output breakout boxes that are fed digital/processed signals.

I know the card-box designs are also going to become obsolete as well... Especially to discerning customers like theta would have. A cost effective upgrade path might sway some buyers...

if the 2channel box is nearly standalone, a person may be able to use the multichannel boxes with their next theta purchase. Even if you replaced the whole 2ch box (for newer dacs / hdmi / whatever), at least you could rest assured that you arent going to repay for all your multichannel dacs in another 5 years.

The main box is way more likely to become obsolete for one reason or another due to improvements in 2ch dacs, atmos or dts x, hdmi/8k video etc. Along with new codecs and software, even the primary processor in the main box is likely to become obsolete as well... Which is why we are at casablanca V in the first place.
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The power bill is the least of your problems in terms of money.

Unless you do class D and/or efficient speakers, you would also need to look at heat management in a rack as well as the associated dust management.

I have just done 21 channels of NAD M27 ncore amps (3). These dont require cooling nor do they have special power requirements. Since there is no major airflow besides passive convection, there is is really not a serious dust issue.

I am still prepping the rest of the setup with a plan for at least a 24 channel atmos/dts prepro to follow. Casablanca V and trinnov look like good frontrunner options. Datasat and theta's implementation are still a bit of an unknown quantity with final costs of dacs etc being unknown.

I would have liked a casablanca concept with only 2.4 channels in the main box as a standard with all the rest of the channels priced into breakout boxes. I find that when you put an arbitrary number of channels into the box, a person may be spending way too much for just a few more breakout channels.

I would bet most theta owners want Exceptional 2.x ch audio at the highest technical levels. After that, the number of folks wanting atmos etc will vary. Especially the total number of channels a person wants to do would vary dramatically as well.

A lot of 2ch lovers feel less comfortable with "compromises" made on their 2ch experience but then don't want a separate room for movies.

I would want the 2channel performance to have the of benefit best-in-class dacs, bass managament, perfect digital volume control. 120db-130db+ signal to noise from input to output would be a high priority. The cpu/software in the main box with upgradeable codecs/room correction would be great. Removable hdmi boards would be good as well.

Then throw all other channels in dac/output breakout boxes that are fed digital/processed signals.

I know the card-box designs are also going to become obsolete as well... Especially to discerning customers like theta would have. A cost effective upgrade path might sway some buyers...

if the 2channel box is nearly standalone, a person may be able to use the multichannel boxes with their next theta purchase. Even if you replaced the whole 2ch box (for newer dacs / hdmi / whatever), at least you could rest assured that you arent going to repay for all your multichannel dacs in another 5 years.

The main box is way more likely to become obsolete for one reason or another due to improvements in 2ch dacs, atmos or dts x, hdmi/8k video etc. Along with new codecs and software, even the primary processor in the main box is likely to become obsolete as well... Which is why we are at casablanca V in the first place.

I read, that Theta V will have 2 Dacs per channel in a balanced config?


How many Dacs does Datasat & Trinnov use per channel?

3 X Quested LT20 Total: $12600.00 For all 3!
2 X Quested LT10 Total: $4800.00 for Pair
4 X Quested LT8 Total: $4000.00 For all 4
3 X Quested AP1550 Amplifiers with Filter Cards Installed used as Mono Blocks for the LT20 Loudspeaker $6500.00 for all 3 Amplifiers.
2 x Quested AP750 Amplifiers $ $2450.00 for both amplifiers.

Last edited by Bassfeen; Today at 09:10 PM.
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post #2335 of 2337 Old Today, 02:17 PM
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My question was more operational than cost based. I'm just curious what you would have to ask an electrician to install to run all that stuff.
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My question was more operational than cost based. I'm just curious what you would have to ask an electrician to install to run all that stuff.
the electrical/sheetrock/painting will vary depending on how complex getting a wire down to your location will be.

Blazar!
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