Official DataSat RS20i thread. (Setup Tips, Questions,General Info, etc) - Page 81 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2401 of 2416 Old 05-05-2015, 05:20 AM
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Fully understand the scepticism and I am not advocating it as the best way, simply that it sounds good to me. I expect I have adjusted to this approach and may have a go at removing the additional delay to check whether it is better.

Hopefully if Carl is about he can chime in.
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post #2402 of 2416 Old 05-05-2015, 07:39 AM
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I thought that sort of delay was used in something like prologic when upmixing stereo to surround (so you send a decorrelated delayed copy of the LR to each surround channel).
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post #2403 of 2416 Old 05-05-2015, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post
I thought that sort of delay was used in something like prologic when upmixing stereo to surround (so you send a decorrelated delayed copy of the LR to each surround channel).
Pro Logic matrix decoding couldn't prevent dialogue from leaking into the surrounds, so delaying the surrounds invoked the precedence effect (hearing the dialogue from the centre channel made your brain ignore the leakage from the surrounds a few milliseconds later).

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post #2404 of 2416 Old 05-05-2015, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
I must admit, I'm struggling to understand the 20ms surround delay approach. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to give it a try, but surely in a properly calibrated room with a single seat, all speaker should be calibrated such that a impulse test tone reaches the listening position at the same time from all speakers.

I understand the point that in a commercial cinema with such a huge amount of seats, and the necessity to calibrate for all seats, or at least for a very wide sweet spot, and prevent rear speaker information reaching the rear most seats before the front speaker information, thus resulting in a sizable delay of the arrival of rear channel information when sitting in other seats. But why perpetuate that inaccuracy in the home where the goal is surely to exceed the reproduction quality that can be achieved in the commercial cinema?

I'm not arguing against it here, I'm just trying to understand the concept - I may well have missed something?
I just did it and applied 20ms to all channel delays except LCR and Subs. I do find the result quite pleasing. I don't have much space to the side and back and have the feeling now of a much bigger room towards the back. It sonehow increased the back soundstage.
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post #2405 of 2416 Old 05-05-2015, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
I must admit, I'm struggling to understand the 20ms surround delay approach. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to give it a try, but surely in a properly calibrated room with a single seat, all speaker should be calibrated such that a impulse test tone reaches the listening position at the same time from all speakers.
I am triple-checking with Datasat engineering, but I think this is an error in the manual, based on someone's misunderstanding of an old DTS theatrical fix to an unexpected problem. The short version is: cinema processors (for commercial movie theaters) had adjustable delay for the mono (and later, stereo) surround channels, for the same reasons that we do today for home theatre - to time align the surround arrays. You needed a surround delay for the whole array so that you could adjust based on the size of the room.

When DTS launched in the 1990s, by far the most common system configuration was to go analog out of the DTS player into the analog inputs on the cinema processor. It was discovered that many cinema processors did not apply their configured surround delay to the analog inputs, which really muddied things up - audiences were hearing the surround channels early. So very early on in the company history a 20ms delay was added to the surrounds upon disc encoding, 20ms having been calculated to be the average delay needed in an average sized auditorium.

It sounds to me as though in a game of telephone this got translated into "surround channels should always be delayed 20ms", which makes no sense to me. Hopefully Carl can weigh in with his take, though.
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post #2406 of 2416 Old 05-05-2015, 07:22 PM
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I rechecked Carl's advice to me and I misrepresented that advice (apologies to all, particularly Carl - this is my second salutary lesson in 24 hours). The key points of Carl's advice are:
- condition 1, if the 'surround to listening position' is less that the 'mains to listening position then set the surround levels to -3dB relative to the mains (ie 82dB) and add 23ms delay to the surround channels


- condition 2, if the 'surround to listening position is equal to or greater than the 'mains to listening position' then set them equal to the mains without adding delay.


Carl's intent is an attempt to recreate the 'acoustic room scale' of a commercial theatre.














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post #2407 of 2416 Old 05-05-2015, 08:40 PM
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post #2408 of 2416 Old 05-05-2015, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenbr View Post
I
- condition 1, if the 'surround to listening position' is less that the 'mains to listening position then set the surround levels to -3dB relative to the mains (ie 82dB) and add 23ms delay to the surround channels

So I should lower the output level by 3db? Would that not result in lower surround information in total? I do understand the 20ms (or 23ms) and after applying them having a more spacious backstage but lowering surrounds would just result in a less audible sonic backstage or am I getting sonething wrong here?

Last edited by westmd; 05-05-2015 at 08:49 PM.
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post #2409 of 2416 Old 05-06-2015, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenbr View Post
Carl's intent is an attempt to recreate the 'acoustic room scale' of a commercial theatre.
Shouldn't the intent be to recreate the environment in the soundtrack rather than the acoustics of a commercial theatre? Do you want to hear Lawrence in an open desert or what that sounds like when being reproduced in a large room?

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post #2410 of 2416 Old 05-11-2015, 01:04 PM
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Hi all!
I noob here at the forum but doing pro AV for years.
First would like to thank you guys for all the info that you collected here!!
Big respect. I learned a lot, way more than in factory training
I am just about to finish my dreams room that including:
RS20i
3 RA7300
7 Wisdom LS8i as LCR, side and rear
4 Wisdom LS4i Tops
4 Wisdom S90i subs.
Room is tiny and perfectly treated.
Will love to share the results and hear some feedbacks and tips!
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post #2411 of 2416 Old 05-13-2015, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by zArtur View Post
Hi all!
I noob here at the forum but doing pro AV for years.
First would like to thank you guys for all the info that you collected here!!
Big respect. I learned a lot, way more than in factory training
I am just about to finish my dreams room that including:
RS20i
3 RA7300
7 Wisdom LS8i as LCR, side and rear
4 Wisdom LS4i Tops
4 Wisdom S90i subs.
Room is tiny and perfectly treated.
Will love to share the results and hear some feedbacks and tips!
Don't forget the pics when you get the chance.
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post #2412 of 2416 Old Yesterday, 04:48 PM
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Anyone else get the chance to try American Sniper yet? Amazing ear candy!

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post #2413 of 2416 Old Today, 01:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trans_lux View Post
I have been plagued by no audio at start-up for some time.
My unit is from early this year.
I've tried different configurations all with similar results.

I will try the workaround next time I'm home.
Has this worked for anyone else?
Is this something you can do via VNC?

TL
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post
Yes. When we have guests. I have to a lot extra time to get things up and going. I've been embarrassed a number of times if my guests fill up the room before I can fire it up.

I'm with you. This needs to be resolved to 100% reliability. Like have had with all my previous SSPs. Glad they're on it.
Hi

My dealer was around yesterday and installed new versions of the DATASAT software v1.03.04 and also fro the HDMI card. Seems to have solved the problem. I will test further over the weekend and report back.
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post #2414 of 2416 Old Today, 02:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yapota View Post
Hi

My dealer was around yesterday and installed new versions of the DATASAT software v1.03.04 and also fro the HDMI card. Seems to have solved the problem. I will test further over the weekend and report back.
Datasat website still has V1.03.03 as latest software. Be interesting to know what .04 brings to the table.
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post #2415 of 2416 Old Today, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by stephenbr View Post
Datasat website still has V1.03.03 as latest software. Be interesting to know what .04 brings to the table.
Hi

This version was supplied to my dealer by Datasat engineers after they had looked at the log files that I had provided and various other diagnostic data, so this release may specifically target the HDMI handshake issues. I am sure they will release it out soon.
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post #2416 of 2416 Old Today, 04:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yapota View Post
Hi

My dealer was around yesterday and installed new versions of the DATASAT software v1.03.04 and also fro the HDMI card. Seems to have solved the problem. I will test further over the weekend and report back.
Awesome. What is the HDMI version?

Thanks for the update!

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